Has Hawaii Officially Endorsed Islam?

[Smiley]

I would like to get everyone's opinion on this:

 

 

Hawaii does not have a Christianity Day, Judaism Day, Buddhism Day or Hinduism Day. Why has Islam been singled out for special recognition? Exclusive recognition IS endorsement! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdxA1adkdKY

 

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[mahak]

Who is hawaii? Not koleka, not kuhio, and certainly not Pele Mata. The Kahuna no islam brah, pelau. When was the last time you seen a muslim next to a kalua pit, brah. Haole no eat pig, eh, no da kine. No surf, either.

 

Nop worry brah, just get rid of those who never got "aloha" other than the HVB's definition of hello and goodbye. Sounds like a beatle record.

 

Fomah da kine kona boy, mahak

[jeffster]

If it had said "Islam is a religion of war," rather than "Islam is a religion of peace," it would have been a bit more believable. Who is stupid enough to believe that Islam is a religion of peace ? Actually, Islam has more aspects of a brotherhood than it does of a religion.

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

To call Islam a "religion of peace" is the Big Lie. Other than a few peaceful Sufis, who were heavily influenced by Hinduism, it is an avowed religion of war, per their own Koranic references. The jihadist killer of the infidel is their hero. This type of rhetoric is a propaganda tool. And as we know from the Nazis, the bigger the lie, the more readily it is believed by the ignorant who are willing to go along with the program to save their own hides, and also to reap mundane benefit. No wonder some call it Islamo-Facism.

 

jeffster/AMd

[Smiley]

If they grant them exclusive honors with only 3,000 members in their state, what will they do for them after their numbers grow? (Islam is the world's fastest growing religion).

[Smiley]

I disagree that it is only "a few peaceful Sufis". Since their world-wide numbers are around 1.6 billion, most of them are peaceful (notwithstanding their foundational scripture which is exactly as you say). The problem with Islamic growth is that the larger the set of 'moderate' muslims (those that don't follow the Koran), the larger the subset of fundamentalist muslims who will take the Koran seriously and see it as their mission to get the majority on the straight and narrow. Turkey is one of the few places where the moderate Muslim majority will not cower to the radical fundamentalists (they've seen enough of that in their history). If Europe is destined to go Islamic (

) I can only hope that it will be the Turkish kind of Islam.

 

 

To call Islam a "religion of peace" is the Big Lie. Other than a few peaceful Sufis, who were heavily influenced by Hinduism, it is an avowed religion of war, per their own Koranic references. The jihadist killer of the infidel is their hero. This type of rhetoric is a propaganda tool. And as we know from the Nazis, the bigger the lie, the more readily it is believed by the ignorant who are willing to go along with the program to save their own hides, and also to reap mundane benefit. No wonder some call it Islamo-Facism.

 

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

I don't object to them if they stay moderate. However, their goal is to have a world-wide "ummah," that is, congregation of Islam, which includes the entire world populace, and as we know from their history, when strong enough, they often use forced conversions or kill those who won't submit. THAT I object to vehemently.

 

It is good that they are theistically-minded and that they have some moral sense. I know a good many Muslims from my business, mostly Palestinians and Jordanians, and most of them I like as persons. But we needn't give them any special Islam Day, especially in this country, which has separated church from state. In other words, no special favoritism. No prayer rooms, no foot baths, no special days.

 

One thing I have never seen, other than with Sufis, is a transcendental approach to their practice. It is mostly a ritualistic practice. It is here especially that the Indian religions go much farther than Islam.

 

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

Are you suggesting that those who take the Koran seriously must, by following the Koran, be fundamentalists ? If that is what you are suggesting, than that is exactly what is wrong with Islam. And that is exactly my point: the Koran itself incites to violence. They either need to alter the Koran, renounce their affiliation with this "brotherhood," or come up with a kinder, gentler interpretation and practice of it.

 

jeffster/AMd

[jeffster]

I urge all Muslims to renounce Islam, and take to Krishna consciousness. If you are afraid to renounce Islam under threat of death, than at least add the practice of Krishna conscioiusness to your life. If you are still afraid to practice it openly, than chant the maha-mantra silently during your prayers. Jaya, Hari Bol !!!

 

jeffster/AMd

[Guest Subramaniam Swamy]

 

I don't object to them if they stay moderate. However, their goal is to have a world-wide "ummah," that is, congregation of Islam, which includes the entire world populace, and as we know from their history, when strong enough, they often use forced conversions or kill those who won't submit. THAT I object to vehemently.

 

 

I understand your anxiety. Muslims, on the other hand, object to 'west' invading their land, raping their people and culture. As you can see, both sides want power and are fighting it out. There are no good guys in politics.

[Guest Subramaniam Swamy]

 

Are you suggesting that those who take the Koran seriously must, by following the Koran, be fundamentalists ? If that is what you are suggesting, than that is exactly what is wrong with Islam. And that is exactly my point: the Koran itself incites to violence. They either need to alter the Koran, renounce their affiliation with this "brotherhood," or come up with a kinder, gentler interpretation and practice of it.

 

jeffster/AMd

 

Islam is a terrific religion. As to verses inciting violence, one can say the same about Gita wherein Krishna urges Arjuna to commit mass murder. Nor is the bible any better.

[Gita Dharma]

 

Islam is a terrific religion. As to verses inciting violence, one can say the same about Gita wherein Krishna urges Arjuna to commit mass murder. Nor is the bible any better.

 

There is an important distinction to be made. Arjuna was told to kill his guru and grandfather along with the rest of the Kshatriyas supporting Duryodhana because they were on the battlefield under arms.

[jeffster]

I don't remember Krishna telling Arjuna to strap on an explosives belt and go into a crowded market place and blow up civilians.

 

jeffster/AMd

[suchandra]

 

I don't remember Krishna telling Arjuna to strap on an explosives belt and go into a crowded market place and blow up civilians.

 

jeffster/AMd

 

People seem to act the fool. Islam is primarily a social network of poor people helping each other materially. Corrupt governments are to be blamed for mismanaging their countries and thus creating outbreak of violence among impoverished fellow citizens. Since Islam and Christianity support cow killing, although their founders prohibited the killing of animals, the whole ancient world, Egypt, Israel, all Mediterranean states were turned into 100% deserts. People have to be educated how to follow religious principles, not to drop the bomb on Islam.

[jeffster]

Did the deserts come about because of cow killing or killing saintly brahmanas ? The way I heard it, and I don't consider it authoritative, is that deserts came about because of brahmana killing. If deserts came about because of cow killing, than the entirety of Europe should be a desert.

 

To call Islam "a social network," although that is certainly an aspect of Islam, or any religion for that matter, is an oversimplification. Yes, governments are corrupt, and that only exacerbates the problem. However, to attempt to ease the situation by strapping on suicide belts and blowing up civilians in bazaars, no matter how much they're convinced that they are correct, is just plain demonic.

 

Certainly people have to be educated to follow religious principles, but to a Muslim a religious principle is to convert or kill the infidel. How do you deal with that ? How would you convince them that our religious principles of sanatana-dharma is superior ?

 

jeffster/AMd

[suchandra]

 

Did the deserts come about because of cow killing or killing saintly brahmanas ? The way I heard it, and I don't consider it authoritative, is that deserts came about because of brahmana killing. If deserts came about because of cow killing, than the entirety of Europe should be a desert.

 

To call Islam "a social network," although that is certainly an aspect of Islam, or any religion for that matter, is an oversimplification. Yes, governments are corrupt, and that only exacerbates the problem. However, to attempt to ease the situation by strapping on suicide belts and blowing up civilians in bazaars, no matter how much they're convinced that they are correct, is just plain demonic.

 

Certainly people have to be educated to follow religious principles, but to a Muslim a religious principle is to convert or kill the infidel. How do you deal with that ? How would you convince them that our religious principles of sanatana-dharma is superior ?

 

jeffster/AMd

 

Right, cows and brahmanas have to be protected. You cannot kill the cow and expect nice climate. Southern Europe, Spain, Southern France, Portugal, Greece, Yugoslavia, Turkey is already a desert. Middle and Northern Europe has long winter periode, people suffer through this. Living in the ancient world without terrible cold winter and nice climate was like living on the heavenly planets.

[chandu_69]

 

Islam is a terrific religion. As to verses inciting violence, one can say the same about Gita wherein Krishna urges Arjuna to commit mass murder. Nor is the bible any better.

It doesn't take much time for people to show their true colors .

 

Have you read the quran, Mr SWAMI?.

 

Islam verses for violence is with regards to spreading Allah's words and attacking those who don't accept Allah's words and muhammad as final messenger for all times to come.

 

In gita Arjuna was told not to abandon battle while he was in the battle field.There is no mass murder to kill infidels(unbeleivers).The battle is between two armies who have already assembled to fight.

 

Fake swamis should read the scriptures before commenting.

[jeffster]

Hello Suchandra:

To be fair, you should show a drought map of the middle east. It is already a desert due to their expert killing of cows and saintly people.

Your argument that "Islam is primarily a social network of poor people helping each other materially," is wholly specious. You make it sound like Islam is akin to the welfare department of our local government, which it is NOT. Also, not every Islamic country is poor: Saudi Arabia is a prime example of an Islamic country that is wealthy, primarily due to oil revenue.

 

Did you know that Saudi Arabia intends to spend U.S. $10 per person to proselytize each American citizen for Islam ? "Proselytize", from "proselyte". "Proselyte, see CONVERSION".

 

The point you seem to fail to realize, Suchandra Prabhu, is that Islam is a threat to your ability to practice Krishna consciousness. If you're O.K. with that, than keep on the way you are, although you might eventually want to consider changing your avatar from Krishna with a cow to something a little more...Islamic. I'm not O.K. with that, and that is why I am vocal about the issue.

 

Lastly, Prabhu, you did not answer my question, "Certainly people have to be educated to follow religious principles, but to a Muslim a religious principle is to convert or kill the infidel. How do you deal with that?"

 

To answer the OP's ?, "Has Hawaii Officially Endorsed Islam," I would say no, the fact that they let an Islamic propagandist make that statement was not an official endorsement of Islam. They were just being nice and politically correct...

 

With this, I am going opt out of any further discussion at least on this thread, as 1.) I have other things to do, 2.) I want to concentrate on my personal sadhana, and this is mostly a disturbance to it, 3.) I am finding internet forums in general mostly useless, 4.) I don't feel that I am helping anyone with my comments, and 5.) Jahnava-nitai das will close down this thread at some point, right in mid-stream.

 

jeffster/AMd

[chandu_69]

Suchandra,

 

Adding to what jeffster wrote please find out about apostasy in islam and the punishment for apostasy (leaving islam).

[suchandra]

 

Hello Suchandra:

To be fair, you should show a drought map of the middle east. It is already a desert due to their expert killing of cows and saintly people.

Your argument that "Islam is primarily a social network of poor people helping each other materially," is wholly specious. You make it sound like Islam is akin to the welfare department of our local government, which it is NOT. Also, not every Islamic country is poor: Saudi Arabia is a prime example of an Islamic country that is wealthy, primarily due to oil revenue.

 

Did you know that Saudi Arabia intends to spend U.S. $10 per person to proselytize each American citizen for Islam ? "Proselytize", from "proselyte". "Proselyte, see CONVERSION".

 

The point you seem to fail to realize, Suchandra Prabhu, is that Islam is a threat to your ability to practice Krishna consciousness. If you're O.K. with that, than keep on the way you are, although you might eventually want to consider changing your avatar from Krishna with a cow to something a little more...Islamic. I'm not O.K. with that, and that is why I am vocal about the issue.

 

Lastly, Prabhu, you did not answer my question, "Certainly people have to be educated to follow religious principles, but to a Muslim a religious principle is to convert or kill the infidel. How do you deal with that?"

 

To answer the OP's ?, "Has Hawaii Officially Endorsed Islam," I would say no, the fact that they let an Islamic propagandist make that statement was not an official endorsement of Islam. They were just being nice and politically correct...

 

With this, I am going opt out of any further discussion at least on this thread, as 1.) I have other things to do, 2.) I want to concentrate on my personal sadhana, and this is mostly a disturbance to it, 3.) I am finding internet forums in general mostly useless, 4.) I don't feel that I am helping anyone with my comments, and 5.) Jahnava-nitai das will close down this thread at some point, right in mid-stream.

 

jeffster/AMd

Just read Caitanya Caritamrita how the Vaishnavas were dealing with Muslims. This is your problem you don't study how Lord Caitanya empowered Muslims as namacarya and how Gaudiya Vaishnavas were earning millions by working for the Muslims. All over Africa Islam is primarily a social network of helping each other to survive. These are not my words, it is fact. They cannot just leave Islam without losing the material support of the network. But I don't have any problem if you again and again want to point how everything I say is humbug. Just use google and find the facts.

[jeffster]

Hi again, Suchandra,

 

Please don't misunderstand me. I am not calling everything you say humbug, I am only pointing out an alternative way of thinking about this issue. I have no problem with social networking by Muslims for their survival purposes; in fact, in my post # 15 I acknowledged the "social networking" that you are implying is all that there is to Islam. My problem is when they think that we must all follow their so-called religion or they'll attempt to kill us. It's this fundamentalism, this craziness I have a problem with. Do you acknowledge that there is a problem with suicide bombers, or do you just want to dart around the issue and whitewash Islam ? Answer this question; if you don't, I'll consider you not up to my challenge.

 

As far as Lord Chaitanya goes, he was dealing with very high-minded Muslims, Muslims who were basically open to Krishna consciousness. Islamic fundamentalists, those who do horrible acts, such as suicide bombing, are NOT open to K.C., please trust me on this one. So please don't compare the Gosvamis and namacharya with fundamentalists or even with ordinary contemporary Muslims. Fundamentalists decry the worship of the deity as idol worship and their conception of divinity does not extend past Brahman, and usually not even that far. I feel that you need to take a little more discriminating look at your own viewpoint, taking into consideration what I have just said.

 

Here is what Prabhupad said in Krishna Book, in "Prayers to the Personified Vedas" : "Because of ignorance, these living entities are misidentifying themselves in different species of life, and especially when they are elevated to the human form of life, they identify with a particular class of men, or a particular nation or race or so-called religion, forgetting their real identity as eternal servants of Your Lordship."

 

jeffster/AMd