shiva is ultimate truth,the ony one

[esagarmatha]

IAM ONE WITHOUT SECOND- EKAMEVA ADVITTIYAM

 

 

Iam one without doubts,my form is formless,causeless,beginingless,self existent, everfree and everpure.

 

It is not one, for how can there be a second distinct from it?

Aloneness cannot be attributed to it nor even not aloness.It is neither a void nor non void,when it does not admit of a second entity , in what manner can I speak about it through it is established by all the upanisads.

 

Iam shiva,

the auspicious ,the only ONE.

[Haridasdasdas]

Yea, but Gaudiyas beleive that Siva is the expansion of Narayana.

 

Don't start a Siva Vs Visnu argument, it's unresolvable, which is why there is an argument. Has it not occurred to you that there are supposed to be both Vaisnavas and Saivaites? Is it not obvious?

[ernestohari]

This is good discussion to start with...Yes ultimate shiva stands as EKA PAADAN with vishnu on his left side and brahma on his right.He distributes the 5 businesses of creation, destruction, protection, hiding and blessing to them. he shares him with vishnu and stands as sankara narayanan to bless this world and remove them out of maya

 

willing to write more if interested....

 

Hairharan B

[tare_tare]

There is a good reason Bhagavan Shiva is known as Mukesh: Lord of those who become silent, without speech. The more we devote ourselves to sadhana the clearer it becomes who or what Bhagavan is, what Narayana is, what Sadashiva is what Ishana etc. Then there is no need to post risible threads because the conceptual mind cannot grasp this, and agitating others will serve no purpose; quite the contrary. Shiva nd Vishnu are used in very complex senses in different texts, in different traditions and even change in meaning in different tracts of the same text, from page to page, e.g. The Devi Mahatmyam. So where is the use of such posts?

[Burzum]

Lord Shiva is himself a humble devotee of Lord Sri Krishna

[sant]

 

Actually, Sant, the definition of knowledge is still an ongoing debate in epistemology, starting with Plato's formulation of knowledge as "justified true belief". (see: Knowledge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Personally I adhere to the view that (scientific) knowledge must be based on some form of logical understanding or (verifiable) formal theory, otherwise it would just be belief or speculation. I agree that as far as a logical argument is based on (or logically inferred from) other logical arguments, this can also be called knowledge. However, logic in itself cannot be considered knowledge, because a logical system is nothing but a minimal set of (arbitrary) axioms and inference rules, which per definition are not based on any other true assumptions.

 

 

egasmaratha wahen you say shiva is formless that means he doesnt have a form so ultimately you refer to brahm isnt it.

[sant]

 

even change in meaning in different tracts of the same text, from page to page, e.g. The Devi Mahatmyam. So where is the use of such pos

Interesting devi mahatmayan has been changed.

[kshama]

Respected Members,

 

I do not know whether this is the right channel to convey thoughts on the matter pertaining superiority of gods.

 

I think there are many more substantial issues regarding Hinduism that can be discussed here. Bickering, arguments, so-called discussions and proof making-proof debating posts, to me, appears as an eyesore. It just reflects how disunited we Hindus are.

 

I am not bothered much about people from other faiths attacking verbally on Hinduism. I believe, their lack of understanding about our culture, norms and religion makes them behave in that manner.What saddens me is Hindus, as we are all part of the same religion, a creation of the absolute truth, why can't we just focus on strenghtening our unity instead of dividing ourselves?

 

I wish the moderators would promptly identify and delete any thread that is a potential never ending chain of futile arguments. We Hindus should set an example to followers of other faiths, that we can lead a life full of unity, tolerance and positivity even whilst being among followers various faiths that are avail in the world.

 

I believe ahimsa paramo dharma. Be it in thoughts, speech and action. If anyone feels that I have crossed my limits and offended their feelings, I apologize for my behaviour. Namaste.

Edited July 12, 2009 by kshama
Spelling check

[Kingdecember]

 

Lord Shiva is himself a humble devotee of Lord Sri Krishna

 

do you have any Vedic pramana for this ?

[The Sage Nabooru]

I've been having an odd experience lately.

 

I'm not a Shaivite, but sometimes I chant "Om Nama Shivaya" and every time I do, I have a period of deep confusion and perplexion waiting for me. Once I did it and for days afterward I had the strong urge to become a Catholic! Only after I said Catholic prayers did it go away!

 

Is Shiva playing some kind of game with me suddenly? I always had thoughtfulness after chanting to Shiva before, but nothing like this.

[kshama]

Dear Sage of Nabooru,

 

Do not blame Lord Shiva for your confusion and delusion of things happening to you. Any god is epitome of goodness. Only good things, sooner or later comes to a dedicated devotee. Namaste.

[chandu_69]

 

I've been having an odd experience lately.

 

I'm not a Shaivite, but sometimes I chant "Om Nama Shivaya" and every time I do, I have a period of deep confusion and perplexion waiting for me. Once I did it and for days afterward I had the strong urge to become a Catholic! Only after I said Catholic prayers did it go away!

 

Is Shiva playing some kind of game with me suddenly? I always had thoughtfulness after chanting to Shiva before, but nothing like this.

 

confusion is in ur mind.It appears you have a guilty consciousness deep inside for having interest in hinduism.Btw, Shiva is not a playful god.

[raghu]

 

Respected Members,

 

I do not know whether this is the right channel to convey thoughts on the matter pertaining superiority of gods.

 

I think there are many more substantial issues regarding Hinduism that can be discussed here. Bickering, arguments, so-called discussions and proof making-proof debating posts, to me, appears as an eyesore. It just reflects how disunited we Hindus are.

 

I am not bothered much about people from other faiths attacking verbally on Hinduism. I believe, their lack of understanding about our culture, norms and religion makes them behave in that manner.What saddens me is Hindus, as we are all part of the same religion, a creation of the absolute truth, why can't we just focus on strenghtening our unity instead of dividing ourselves?

 

I wish the moderators would promptly identify and delete any thread that is a potential never ending chain of futile arguments. We Hindus should set an example to followers of other faiths, that we can lead a life full of unity, tolerance and positivity even whilst being among followers various faiths that are avail in the world.

 

"Futile" is in the eye of the beholder. Certain individuals believe that anyone who disagrees with them is needlessly argumentative, while certain others have a tendency to argue and argue ad nauseum even when they have little substance to their argument. To me, two people disagreeing politely is quite illuminating since it gives me a chance to evaluate the relative strengths and weaknesses of their individual positions. When someone resorts to ad hominem attacks, fatwas, papal bull (or their modern-day, internet equivalents) to silence an opponent, it tells me rather quickly that his is a philosophical position that I should not bother making my own.

 

Your idea that discussing hierarchy/supremacy of different deities is not important says more about your own views than of the legitimacy of the question. After all, a person who genuinely wants to know what is the best path to liberation is not going to accept an answer steeped in moral relativism (i.e. "this path is ok, that path is ok, whatever you like is ok...").

 

There is no getting around the fact that throughout the Puranas we have questions pertaining to what is the highest good for man, and the answer often comes in the form of directing one to a specific deity. Are all of those Puranas to be swept off the table because of their politically incorrect position of elevating one deity over another? Or could it be, perhaps, that it is our attachment to political correctness that handicaps our search after truth? It is kind of pointless, don't you think, to want to seek after truth but then provide so many conditions first (i.e. don't tell me one path is better than another, don't tell me one deity is superior to another, etc). If we do not know truth, should we not acknowledge that point humbly and take help from sources of right knowledge, instead of filtering said sources through our own preconceived biases?

 

Hindus will never be philosophically united because Hinduism has never been philosphically united. Throughout Hindu history there have always been Vaishnavas, Shaivites, Shaktas, Vedantins, Non-Vedantins, etc. We do not need to dismiss our philosphical differences for the sake of political unity. Political unity and philosophical unity have nothing to do with each other.

[kshama]

 

"Futile" is in the eye of the beholder. Certain individuals believe that anyone who disagrees with them is needlessly argumentative, while certain others have a tendency to argue and argue ad nauseum even when they have little substance to their argument. To me, two people disagreeing politely is quite illuminating since it gives me a chance to evaluate the relative strengths and weaknesses of their individual positions. When someone resorts to ad hominem attacks, fatwas, papal bull (or their modern-day, internet equivalents) to silence an opponent, it tells me rather quickly that his is a philosophical position that I should not bother making my own.

 

Your idea that discussing hierarchy/supremacy of different deities is not important says more about your own views than of the legitimacy of the question. After all, a person who genuinely wants to know what is the best path to liberation is not going to accept an answer steeped in moral relativism (i.e. "this path is ok, that path is ok, whatever you like is ok...").

 

There is no getting around the fact that throughout the Puranas we have questions pertaining to what is the highest good for man, and the answer often comes in the form of directing one to a specific deity. Are all of those Puranas to be swept off the table because of their politically incorrect position of elevating one deity over another? Or could it be, perhaps, that it is our attachment to political correctness that handicaps our search after truth? It is kind of pointless, don't you think, to want to seek after truth but then provide so many conditions first (i.e. don't tell me one path is better than another, don't tell me one deity is superior to another, etc). If we do not know truth, should we not acknowledge that point humbly and take help from sources of right knowledge, instead of filtering said sources through our own preconceived biases?

 

Hindus will never be philosophically united because Hinduism has never been philosphically united. Throughout Hindu history there have always been Vaishnavas, Shaivites, Shaktas, Vedantins, Non-Vedantins, etc. We do not need to dismiss our philosphical differences for the sake of political unity. Political unity and philosophical unity have nothing to do with each other.

 

Respected Raghu Ji,

 

Namaskar. Thank you for your feedback. The contents of your post are noted. The unity among Hindus that I would like to see, though I am insignificant, is that of a state where everyone practices their convictions but do not criticize the beliefs of other Hindus from other sects or Sampradayas. I am happy if one feels their god is superior than others, but what makes me unhappy is to see, hear and read bitter, untasteful remarks by them, on the beliefs of other people, especially fellow Hindus. Fundamentalism, holier-than-thou attitude and many more unpleasant things that I see just makes me feel bad. For some, especially the underinformed, might have got the wrong impression about Hinduism at large, after seeing what's happening in this forum.

 

I do know this is a free forum, anyone is welcome to state what is in their minds, but, I do not know, how to describe, I just feel it is very distasteful to see how some act here.

 

I was not advocating my faith or the spiritual path that I am following when I plead to the members here to stop discussing supremacy of gods. My real intention was and still is to see discussion of other things that are more substantial to member's personal and spiritual growth.

 

I do think it is possible for Hindus to unite, though we are of different backgrounds, set of beliefs and practices. What we need is tolerance. I just cannot think of another trait that is vital than tolerance.

 

Raghuji and fellow members, I'd like to apologize if my posts in this thread gave you the wrong impression and offended any of you. Namaste.