(for Vaishnavas) Is Shiva God?

[Sonic Yogi]

 

No Lust in Lord Siva

The following history is another example of naravata-gata-vicara, or madhurya-gata-vicara. There is also some tattva-gata-vicara here, and altogether it is a nectar cup-full of madhurya (sweetness) and tattva (philosophical truth) - tasting very good.

Lord Siva is immensely powerful and he has no lust. He may even be naked, and his wife Parvati may also be sitting naked on his lap, but they have no lusty desires. If an ordinary girl and boy stay close together, especially without clothes, lust will enter their hearts. However, this falldown does not take place in the hearts of Lord Siva and Parvati-devi under any circumstance.

In this regard, a transcendental pastime is described in the Sixth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Lord Siva was once giving a lecture in an assembly of great saintly persons, Parvati was sitting on his lap, and both of them were completely naked. At that time the exalted devotee King Citraketu came and said in a friendly way, "Just see the position in which you are giving your lecture." Parvati thought that he was criticizing Lord Siva. Disturbed by the thought that anyone would think Lord Siva has lusty desires in his heart, she cursed him.

King Citraketu was on friendly terms with Lord Siva, and because Citraketu's Guru is also Mula-Sankarsana, he and Siva were god-brothers. He never meant to say that lust was in Siva's heart. He was simply saying that this was not the standard way to deliver a lecture.

Lord Siva chastized Parvati and said, "Why did you curse him? He is an exalted devotee. Look at his advancement in bhakti. Although he is quite competent to revoke your curse and curse you in retaliation, he has readily accepted your curse. This is his greatness - this is the behavior of a Vaisnava."

Lust cannot remain near Lord Siva. Neither Lord Sadasiva nor His partial manifestation of Siva who stays with Parvati have lust in their hearts. When Kamadeva, Cupid, once came to disturb Lord Siva's meditation, Siva simply opened his third eye and burned him to ashes.

How could it happen then, that Lord Siva was attracted to the beautiful form of Mohini-murti? Mohini is an incarnation of Lord Krsna Himself, and He can do anything. It was Lord Krsna who personally created the attraction within Lord Siva's heart, and He who showed him this form of Mohini. In the course of serving Krsna's pastimes, His internal bewildering energy, yogamaya, is so strong that it can do anything.

[*Endnote 1: mahat-tattva: the twenty-four elements are the five gross elements, the three

subtle elements, ten senses, five sense objects, and the total material cause.

Endnote 2: "Thus by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Narayana, who is transcendental to all material qualities, Lord Siva was saved from being killed by a demon. Anyone who hears this history with faith and devotion is certainly liberated from material entanglement as well as from the clutches of his enemies." (Krsna, Chapter 88)

Endnote 3: Sukadeva Gosvami assured King Pariksit that the narration of the fight between Lord Siva and Lord Krsna is not at all inauspicious, like ordinary fights. On the contrary, if one remembers in the morning the narration of this fight between Lord Krsna and Lord Siva, and takes pleasure in the victory of Lord Krsna, he will never experience defeat anywhere in his struggle of life." (Krsna, Chapter 63)

Endnote 4: Lord Nityananda said, "To the west of the Alakananda River see Kasi, where the followers of Siva and his consort endeavor for liberation. This Navadvipa Kasi, however, is superior to the other Kasi. Here, Siva is always dancing and chanting the name of Gaura , begging his followers to accept gaura-bhakti. The sannyasis who live for a thousand years in Kasi may attain liberation through the cultivation of jnana, but here the devotees kick away that liberation as they dance and chant the name of Gauranga. While leaving the body here, living entities are delivered by Lord Siva, who chants the name of Gauranga in their ears. This dhama is thus called Maha-Varanasi, for here there is no fear of death." (Sri Navadvipa Mahatmya by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

 

[primate]

 

...

I am trying to determine if there is a clear and consistent way to understand Shiva's position in the Gaudiya worldview without making obvious errors in scriptural interpretation. Perhaps there is, and perhaps there is not, but what I have seen so far leads me to believe that the Gaudiyas have endorsed contradictory viewpoints regarding Shiva, in contrast to their viewpoint about all other devatas which is that they are clearly mortals. Again, I request knowledgeable GVs to comment with specific references to pUrvAchAryas' writings on the subject.

 

I guess Gaudya Vaishnavas would explain this contradiction through Achintya Bedha Abedha Tattva. The philosophy of Achintya Bedha Abedha refers to the simultaneous, inconceivable oneness and difference between God and His energies, the latter of which are emanations from Him. These energies constitute both the jivas and the material universes. The idea is that while both are equal in quality, a difference exists in quantity. Difference and non-difference together represent a complete understanding of the relationship between Brahman and the jivas. Now, like the jivas, Shiva is an emanation of the Lord’s energies that is qualitatively equal, but quantitatively different from Brahman..

[gHari]

I remember the yogurt and milk analogy. Yogurt is milk, but yogurt cannot be used as milk.

 

When considering the qualities of the various manifestations of Godhead, Krsna possesses more qualities in greater degree than any of God's personalities, even though They are all Bhagavan equally omnipotent.

 

I am the same gHari whether I am dressed in fine clothes at work talking all posh, or I am dressed in my cricket uniform shouting and running and sweating, or whether I am in the bushes whispering sweet nothings in my girlfriend's ear. Each of these manifestations of gHari are me, but each appears, behaves and is addressed quite differently. [ But deep inside I am that boy in the bushes ].

 

Lord Brahma, senior spokesman for the sampradaya is very clear about the exalted position of Lord Siva in the following two quotations. Sri Brahma uvaca:

 

Sri Brahma-Samhita 5.45:

 

<center>

kSIraM yathA dadhi vikAra-vizeSa-yogAt

saJjAyate na hi tataH pRthag asti hetoH

yaH zambhutAm api tathA samupaiti kAryAd

govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi

</center>

kSIram--milk; yathA--as; dadhi--yogurt; vikAra-vizeSa--of a special transformation; yogAt--by the application; saJjAyate--is transformed into; na--not; hi--indeed; tataH--from the milk; pRthak--separated; asti--is; hetoH--which is the cause; yaH--who; zambhutAm--the nature of Lord Siva; api--also; tathA--thus; samupaiti--accepts; kAryAt--for the matter of some particular business; govindam--Govinda; Adi-puruSam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajAmi--worship.

Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.

 

PURPORT

 

(The real nature of Sambhu, the presiding deity of Maheza-dhAma, is described.) Sambhu is not a second Godhead other than KRSNa. Those, who entertain such discriminating sentiment, commit a great offense against the Supreme Lord. The supremacy of Sambhu is subservient to that of Govinda; hence they are not really different from each other. The nondistinction is established by the fact that just as milk treated with acid turns into curd so Godhead becomes a subservient when He Himself attains a distinct personality by the addition of a particular element of adulteration. This personality has no independent initiative. The said adulterating principle is constituted of a combination of the stupefying quality of the deluding energy, the quality of nonplenitude of the marginal potency and a slight degree of the ecstatic-cum-cognitive principle of the plenary spiritual potency. This specifically adulterated reflection of the principle of the subjective portion of the Divinity is SadAziva, in the form of the effulgent masculine-symbol-god Sambhu from whom Rudradeva is manifested. In the work of mundane creation as the material cause, in the work of preservation by the destruction of sundry asuras and in the work of destruction to conduct the whole operation, Govinda manifests Himself as guNa-avatAra in the form of Sambhu who is the separated portion of Govinda imbued with the principle of His subjective plenary portion.

 

 

The personality of the destructive principle in the form of time has been identified with that of Sambhu by scriptural evidences that have been adduced in the commentary. The purport of the BhAgavata zlokas, viz., vaiSNavAnAM yathA zambhuH, etc., is that Sambhu, in pursuance of the will of Govinda, works in union with his consort DurgAdevI by his own time energy. He teaches pious duties (dharma) as stepping-stones to the attainment of spiritual service in the various tantra-zAstras, etc., suitable for jIvas in different grades of the conditional existence. In obedience to the will of Govinda, Sambhu maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionism (MAyAvAda) and the speculative Agama-zAstras. The fifty attributes of individual souls are manifest in a far vaster measure in Sambhu and five additional attributes not attainable by jIvas are also partly found in him. So Sambhu cannot be called a jIva. He is the lord of jIva but yet partakes of the nature of a separated portion of Govinda.

 

 

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.8.42:

 

<center>

brahmovAca

jAne tvAm IzaM vizvasya

jagato yoni-bIjayoH

zakteH zivasya ca paraM

yat tad brahma nirantaram

</center>

brahmA uvAca--Lord BrahmA said; jAne--I know; tvAm--you (Lord Siva); Izam--the controller; vizvasya--of the entire material manifestation; jagataH--of the cosmic manifestation; yoni-bIjayoH--of both the mother and father; zakteH--of potency; zivasya--of Siva; ca--and; param--the Supreme; yat--which; tat--that; brahma--without change; nirantaram--with no material qualities.

Lord BrahmA said: My dear Lord Siva, I know that you are the controller of the entire material manifestation, the combination father and mother of the cosmic manifestation, and the Supreme Brahman beyond the cosmic manifestation as well. I know you in that way.

 

PURPORT

 

Although Lord BrahmA had received very respectful obeisances from Lord Siva, he knew that Lord Siva was in a more exalted position than himself. Lord Siva's position is described in Brahma-saMhitA: there is no difference between Lord ViSNu and Lord Siva in their original positions, but still Lord Siva is different from Lord ViSNu. The example is given that the milk in yogurt is not different from the original milk from which it was made.

 

[Sonic Yogi]

Shambhu is the glance of Lord Maha-Vishnu. When Maha-Vishnu glances at prakriti, the portion of Maha-Vishnu that contacts Durga Devi is Shambhu.

 

Maha-Vishnu cannot have any connection with Durga as Durga is the material energy. In order for Maha-Vishnu to contact Durga he must become Shambhu.

 

As Maha-Vishnu glances at Durga he transforms into Sadasiva or Shambhu.

 

In so doing he transforms into Sadasiva, but that Sadasiva cannot then again function as Vishnu.

 

Vishnu becomes Shambhu, but Shambhu cannot become Vishnu.

 

As well, Siva cannot award Vaikuntha mukti.

Only Vishnu can award that.

 

Siva can only award Mahesha dhama mukti which does not contain any of the ecstacies of Hari bhakti-rasa.

 

Mahesha Dhama mukti involves muktananda and asta-siddhi, but it does not include prema-rasa that is intrinsic to Hari Dhama mukti.

 

The highest spiritual ecstacies can only be eperienced by the Krishna bhaktas of Goloka Dhama. The Hari bhakti rasa of Goloka is millions of times greater than muktananda of Mahesha Dham of Lord Shambhu which exists between the Devi Dhama and Vaikuntha Dhama.

 

There is higher spiritual ecstacy beyond mukti.

Beyond mukti is Hari bhakti rasa which is much sweeter and more flavorful than mukti.

 

Mukti is like pure water.

Hari-bhakti is like mango juice.

[hindustani]

Now I am sure the purpose of this forum is to insult united hindu religion,not once but many times different members came up and raised such issues.India suffered a lot due to their own people rather than from invaders(turks,muslims,mughals etc),if we cannot unite no one can save us and here you chaps are giving wrong signals to your own soul each time.Tell me one thing if Mine or your God whom we are worshiping is lovable and respectable to us what is the need to discuss anything related to a word from english called Godhead?What is the need to prove him superior each time?Just carry on what we are suppose to do isn't it but here case is different-this clearly tells that you are not satisfied by your worship or your God.Bitter truth this is.

I eat veggie food,few others eat non veg food but color of our blood is Red and not green for veggies or yellow for non veg food takers,I shall not take names here but what you are doing is not good for your own soul and that I underline.

Perhaps because of such mentality foreigners ruled India coz we are not united,open your eyes else no one can save you.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Now I am sure the purpose of this forum is to insult united hindu religion,not once but many times different members came up and raised such issues.India suffered a lot due to their own people rather than from invaders(turks,muslims,mughals etc),if we cannot unite no one can save us and here you chaps are giving wrong signals to your own soul each time.Tell me one thing if Mine or your God whom we are worshiping is lovable and respectable to us what is the need to discuss anything related to a word from english called Godhead?What is the need to prove him superior each time?Just carry on what we are suppose to do isn't it but here case is different-this clearly tells that you are not satisfied by your worship or your God.Bitter truth this is.

I eat veggie food,few others eat non veg food but color of our blood is Red and not green for veggies or yellow for non veg food takers,I shall not take names here but what you are doing is not good for your own soul and that I underline.

Perhaps because of such mentality foreigners ruled India coz we are not united,open your eyes else no one can save you.

 

How India can be united? In India there are hundreds of different languages.

In India there are at least 29 languages that have more than 1 million people.

India has as many religions are there are gods and goddesses.

India has more cults and sects than any country in the world.

 

The British united India and then established self-rule and divided India and Pakistan.

 

The only thing that can unite India is a secular democratic government as the British helped establish upon granting India self-rule.

 

There are too many religions and languages in India to be united by anything except a democratic government which is the gift of the British.

 

The British conquered India but came to love India and it's people.

If not for the British, India would be ruled by Muslims.

So, at least you can thank the British for that.

[kaisersose]

 

Now I am sure the purpose of this forum is to insult united hindu religion,not once but many times different members came up and raised such issues

.

 

1) Why do you think Indians are not united? Can you post your defiinition of unity and also show how other countries do not have this problem?

 

2) if they are not united, why do you believe diffferent religious beliefs is the reason?

 

3) Before the British, there was no India & obviously there was no concept of a "united India". Indians did display unprecedented unity during the Sepoy Mutiny and later, once the concept of an India was set in place.

 

4) Given our cultural diversity, whatever unity you see in India is by itself a great accomplishment. It does not have a parallel anywhere in the world.

 

5) Keep Religion & socio-politics apart. Your complains about national unity, etc., are out of context in a spiritual forum.

 

Cheers

[sant]

 

) Why do you think Indians are not united? Can you post your defiinition of unity and also show how other countries do not have this problem?

 

2) if they are not united, why do you believe diffferent religious beliefs is the reason?

 

3) Before the British, there was no India & obviously there was no concept of a "united India". Indians did display unprecedented unity during the Sepoy Mutiny and later, once the concept of an India was set in place.

 

4) Given our cultural diversity, whatever unity you see in India is by itself a great accomplishment. It does not have a parallel anywhere in the world.

 

5) Keep Religion & socio-politics apart. Your complains about national unity, etc., are out of context in a spiritual forum.

 

Cheers

 

agreed

[Kali_Upasaka]

The moghul rule was nearing its end when the Britishers came to India. We do thank the British for many things. But saving us from Muslim rule is not one of them.

 

The British did not unite India. When we got independence there were more than 400 kingdoms or Native states as called by the British. In fact the secret agreements that the British entered into with many of these Kings did lead a lot of problems later.

[kaisersose]

 

The British conquered India but came to love India and it's people.

 

There is absolutely no evidence of such love. If you have some, we would love to see it.

 

 

If not for the British, India would be ruled by Muslims.

So, at least you can thank the British for that.

 

Contrary to what you believe, Indians were actually OK with Muslims ruling the country than the British. You see, the Muslim rulers made India their home and aside from stray incidents, had no problems with Hindus practising their religion. The British on the other hand were foreigners for whom India was a colony and the "proceeds" were sent to the Queen, back home. India was never their home and was simply a source of extra income for the Queen.

 

When Indians (Hindus and Muslims together) revolted for the first time during the 19th century, the plan was to reinstate Bahadur Shah, the last Mughal emperor (and a Muslim) to become the ruler again after kicking out the foreigners. The choice between Indian Muslim vs. British was clear.

 

Cheers

[chandu_69]

 

Contrary to what you believe, Indians were actually OK with Muslims ruling the country than the British. You see, the Muslim rulers made India their home and aside from stray incidents, had no problems with Hindus practising their religion.

 

Yes, Indians were ok with whole sale massacres imposition of jizya tax, conversion at sword etc etc..Stray incidents, huh.

 

http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/moghal_atro.html

 

Will Durant(author of Story of Civilisation) wrote

"the Mohammedan conquest of India was probably the bloodiest story in history".

[chandu_69]

Will durant continued

 

India before the advent of Islamic imperialism was not exactly a zone of peace. There were plenty of wars fought by Hindu princes. But in all their wars, the Hindus had observed some time-honoured conventions sanctioned by the Sastras. The Brahmins and the Bhikshus were never molested. The cows were never killed. The temples were never touched. The chastity of women was never violated. The non-combatants were never killed or captured. A human habitation was never attacked unless it was a fort. The civil population was never plundered. War booty was an unknown item in the calculations of conquerors. The martial classes who clashed, mostly in open spaces, had a code of honor. Sacrifice of honor for victory or material gain was deemed as worse than death.

 

Islamic imperialism came with a different code--the Sunnah of the Prophet. It required its warriors to fall upon the helpless civil population after a decisive victory had been won on the battlefield. It required them to sack and burn down villages and towns after the defenders had died fighting or had fled. The cows, the Brahmins, and the Bhikshus invited their special attention in mass murders of non-combatants. The temples and monasteries were their special targets in an orgy of pillage and arson. Those whom they did not kill, they captured and sold as slaves. The magnitude of the booty looted even from the bodies of the dead, was a measure of the success of a military mission. And they did all this as mujahids (holy warriors) and ghazls (kafir-killers) in the service of Allah and his Last Prophet.

Hindus found it very hard to understand the psychology of this new invader. For the first time in their history, Hindus were witnessing a scene which was described by Kanhadade Prabandha (1456 AD) in the following words:

"The conquering army burnt villages, devastated the land, plundered people's wealth, took Brahmins and children and women of all classes captive, flogged with thongs of raw hide, carried a moving prison with it, and converted the prisoners into obsequious Turks."

That was written in remembrance of Alauddin Khalji's invasion of Gujarat in the year l298 AD. But the gruesome game had started three centuries earlier when Mahmud Ghaznavi had vowed to invade India every year in order to destroy idolatry, kill the kafirs, capture prisoners of war, and plunder vast wealth for which India was well-known

[chandu_69]

Continued the response regarding hindus happy with muslim rule.

 

http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/temple_aurangzeb.html

 

Some examples of accounts written by Muslim chroniclers(not by Hindus)

 

"Mir'at-i-Alam" by Bakhtawar Khan

 

Muhiyu'd-Din Muhammad Aurangzeb 'Alamgir Padshah Ghazi (1658-1707) General Order

" ...Hindu writers have been entirely excluded from holding public offices, and ALL THE WORSHIPPING PLACES OF THE INFIDELS AND GREAT TEMPLES of these infamous people HAVE BEEN THROWN DOWN AND DESTROYED in a manner which excites astonishment at the successful completion of so difficult a task. His Majesty personally teaches the sacred kalima to many infidels with success. ... All mosques in the empire are repaired at public expense..."

 

 

the full list is given at the above link

 

 

and independent verification from

 

 

http://kblibrary.bih.nic.in/Vol07.htm

http://maapritonk.nic.in/histryvolume1.htm

[kaisersose]

 

Yes, Indians were ok with whole sale massacres imposition of jizya tax, conversion at sword etc etc..Stray incidents, huh.

 

If that was true, with 800 years of Muslim rule, why was over 80% of the country still Hindu?? They should all have converted over, under the alleged opression.

 

Anyway the point is moot. The exact line I posted was "Indians were actually OK with Muslims ruling the country than the British".

 

Now if you are incapable of grasping simple english, that means, of the two options (British and Muslim kings), Indians chose the latter. Evidence? Sepoy Mutiny where Hindus and Muslims fought together to oust British rule and one of the firsr things they did was to put Bahadur Shah back on the throne.

 

In short, before you go off on yet another of your jingoistic rants, read the post your are responding to & save yourself some embarassment. Now I know you are a Hare Krishna/desi jingoist who finds it easier to forgive the atrocities of a foreign white guy than with giving a fair deal to an Indian muslim, but there is always hope that one can turn around and see common sense.

 

Cheers

[hindustani]

 

1) Why do you think Indians are not united? Can you post your defiinition of unity and also show how other countries do not have this problem?

 

How many times members discussed some topics and fight started afterwards?Check any posts with more than 30 replies and you will have answer,we are devided in casts,should I need to tell more about our samaj rachna?I dont think so.

Why to see other countries for similar problem,my focus is on my country,period.

 

2) if they are not united, why do you believe diffferent religious beliefs is the reason?

Hindu religion devided in many parts and here I dont count jain,buddha,sikh,devided paths are now trying to prove their path is best,proof is this forum itself.

 

3) Before the British, there was no India & obviously there was no concept of a "united India". Indians did display unprecedented unity during the Sepoy Mutiny and later, once the concept of an India was set in place.

 

Check old map of India before 1947,it was as a whole and there were no boundries of independant states in it.In those days we had our own sanskars of hinduism and now?We devided as a whole India but we lost our sanskars long back.

 

4) Given our cultural diversity, whatever unity you see in India is by itself a great accomplishment. It does not have a parallel anywhere in the world.

 

What culture you are talking about in recent India?Do we have any real culture left now?Do you get up early in the morning and offer a prayer?Do you respect your parents?Do you have your guru?If you say yes in all 3 of above,very few people left today like you in India.

 

5) Keep Religion & socio-politics apart. Your complains about national unity, etc., are out of context in a spiritual forum.

Why?I am free to speak and what ever I am speaking is not foolish like others are doing here,mind your own business please!Spirituality rises from national unity,read Chanakya character and it will endorse my views.

[sambya]

 

You see, the Muslim rulers made India their home and aside from stray incidents, had no problems with Hindus practising their religion

although this is going out of context , its definately better than the topic of the original post .

 

i agree here . although muslims created lot of disturbances in this country with their autocratic rule and fanatical measures , most of them ( with the exceptions like mahmud of ghazni or nadir shah ) ultimately made india their home . therefore the taxes and the revenue that were collected ultimately went back in indian people . although famines and poverty were still their it was not so serious as in british era .

 

the sole intention of british was to extract as much as possible from india to decorate their homeland . therefore all the taxes and revenue collected on indian soil , out of indian people was used to improve the condition of british citizens . this ruined the countries economy and brought about unprecedented distress and suffering out of which india is yet to recover fully .

 

and this was just one of the innumerable vices of british colonialism !!!

[kaisersose]

Hindustani,

 

I have responses for all your points which btw, are vague and unfocused.

But I do not want to hijack this thread.

 

Cheers

[sant]

You have forgotten about the injustices of the british,the arabs worth of money jewels diamonds stolen by the british forcibly and cunningly both,the inhuman constitutional policies which led india to famines, poverty slavery,The bloody jallianwala bhag , the forcibly usage if indian soldiers in war,the injustice and inhuman treatment begeted indians be he a soldier farmer teacher businessman anybody,

the use of divide and rule which led to bloodshed during 1947,seem to be more lovable for you,

Before the british every person in india had his own land,there was less poverty,people were self sufficient and were hindus.They were well off.

[kaisersose]

 

...and this was just one of the innumerable vices of british colonialism !!!

 

None of which matters to our local fundamentalist, Chandu. His sole intent is to malign Muslims and show them as the root cause of all evils. He is fine with the British moving the Kohinoor to UK, but he has problems with Indian Muslims who fought the British while they were moving the Kohinoor to their country!

 

I am done with this thread. If anyone wants to continue the topic, please start a new thread with the right title.

 

Cheers

[hindustani]

And to add to my above post,once Sant Shri Tulsidas said more you read spiritual stuff,books etc you get confused,I agree on his views and devided sampradaya has something to do with this and that is why he wrote Ramcharit Manas in most simplified ways,but here if I give any exaple from this holy book someone will ask for pramana OR quote vedic lines below my quotes!!Current spritual books have been alterted and this we already discussed in past.

More you read,more you try to grasp ends in a confusion about what you are doing....yes its a fact and that is why people try to discuss demigods theory again and again.If our fingures are not alike,if our children are not alike,if our views are not neutral how the hell one should try to judge God and his maya?

[chandu_69]

 

If that was true, with 800 years of Muslim rule, why was over 80% of the country still Hindu?? They should all have converted over, under the alleged opression.

Cheers

 

80% ? .Where did you get your figures.india was 40% muslim before partition of india.get your facts straight Mr kaiserose.

 

The zeal to convert indians whole sale has ebbed.That is it.

[chandu_69]

 

The moghul rule was nearing its end when the Britishers came to India. We do thank the British for many things. But saving us from Muslim rule is not one of them.

 

The British did not unite India. .

Why the heck the british needed to unite india?. They are occupiers; plain and simple.

[hindustani]

Dear Kaisersoseji

You hijack these chaps who again and again riding on mary go round,rest will be done in due corse of time automatically:) .Spiritual forum should bring spiritual stuff and here all bogus sagas being repeated again and again.

 

Hindustani,

 

I have responses for all your points which btw, are vague and unfocused.

But I do not want to hijack this thread.

 

Cheers

[sant]

 

indians.....................

Well do you know this is not a nationalist forum,there are more foreigners here in this thread than indians.

The indian people are here too busy with jyotish and mantra tantra

The vedic astrology is the site which is full of indian and i think there are 97% only indians there.

So you think what the indians here are interested in.

if youre a truly spiritual you will consider all beings as equal god resides in all whether they are abrahamic religion or pakistanis or anybody that is real sprituality that is real advait which can be seen in less people.

[hindustani]

Chandu

Occupiers never win,wether they are british or...........someone from this forum who started such thread on God Shiva,hope you understands what I want to convey.

 

Why the heck the british needed to unite india?. They are occupiers; plain and simple.