Worship in Gaudiya Vaishnavism

[krishnaleela]

I want to get some points clarified regarding Gaudiya Vaishnavism. (I may use Order or organization for reference).

 

1. The first question is regarding your sampradaya within itself. Is the central deity of your Order Sri Krishna of the Bhagavatham or Sri Chaitanya? Do you keep separate deities of worship of the two personalities? Do you see glorification of Chaitanya as no different from glorification of Krishna?

 

2. If an outsider enters your shrine, what is the Personality most apparent or emphasized? For example, if I enter a Catholic-Church, I expect Jesus to be the main personality and possibly Mary as a subsidiary personality and some other saints perhaps along the side. If I enter a GV shrine, am I first and primarily confronted with the personality of Chaitanya, and then of Krishna of Bhagavatham, or viseversa, or both,etc?

 

3. As an organization, you may regard Chaitanya as avatara of Krishna. However I am interested in how this is emphasized, if at all, to the general public. What are your opinions regarding this aspect?

 

4. Do you think your organization, if necessary and in terms of giving the personal-connection to God, can stand totally independent of the personality of Chaitanya, and solely on the personality of Krishna in Bhagavatham - by only emphasizing the latter and not even bringing in the former, except through his teachings about the former? (This is regarding the Bhakthi-emphasis that the organization puts forth, and not philosophy.)

 

I don't intend this thread for arguments about the good and bad of all this. But I would like candid information from people who follow this sampradaya.

See some of my posts in the Neo-Hinduism thread for the context in which I am interested; however I don't want this to become a fighting thread. Just clarify, and give information about your opinions on your sampradaya in this regard. Thanks for any details.

[gHari]

 

1. The first question is regarding your sampradaya within itself. Is the central deity of your Order Sri Krishna of the Bhagavatham or Sri Chaitanya? Do you keep separate deities of worship of the two personalities? Do you see glorification of Chaitanya as no different from glorification of Krishna?

Sri Sri Radha-Krsna

Both Deities are seen.

Caitanya is the mercy of Krsna. His instruction was that we should worship Krsna, Govinda nicely. This will please Him. But factually, worship of Caitanya is worship of Krsna.

2. If an outsider enters your shrine, what is the Personality most apparent or emphasized? For example, if I enter a Catholic-Church, I expect Jesus to be the main personality and possibly Mary as a subsidiary personality and some other saints perhaps along the side. If I enter a GV shrine, am I first and primarily confronted with the personality of Chaitanya, and then of Krishna of Bhagavatham, or viseversa, or both,etc?

Sri Sri Radha-Krsna

Because Lord Caitanya mercifully never accepts offenses, one normally would offer his obeisances to the Deities of Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityananda first to be purified, before bowing before Their Lordships, Sri Radha and Sri Krsna.

3. As an organization, you may regard Chaitanya as avatara of Krishna. However I am interested in how this is emphasized, if at all, to the general public. What are your opinions regarding this aspect?

This is not so important. One may regard Him as simply a great scholar. Only by devotion is the truth revealed. Lord Caitanya is Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. The important message brought by Gaura is the dharma of the Age - the glorification of the millions of holy names of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna.

 

4. Do you think your organization, if necessary and in terms of giving the personal-connection to God, can stand totally independent of the personality of Chaitanya, and solely on the personality of Krishna in Bhagavatham - by only emphasizing the latter and not even bringing in the former, except through his teachings about the former? (This is regarding the Bhakthi-emphasis that the organization puts forth, and not philosophy.)

In this fallen Age of Kali, people are unfortunate, with little inclination or skills to worship Sri Sri Radha-Krsna nicely. Lord Sri Krsna Caitanya is the embodiment of Sri Radha and Sri Krsna in one form. His special mercy is that He does not accept offenses, so it is possible for the fallen to actually worship Sri Sri Radha-Krsna through this magnanimous manifestation and make advancement toward pure love of God.

Gaura-Nitai

The Glories of Lord Caitanya

[gHari]

1.

Glory to the Sri Krsna sankirtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sankirtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious.

 

2.

O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Krsna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them

 

3.

One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.

 

4.

O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth.

 

5.

O son of Maharaja Nanda [Krsna], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.

 

6.

O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?

 

7.

O Govinda! Feeling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence.

 

8.

I know no one but Krsna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally.

[krishnaleela]

 

1. The first question is regarding your sampradaya within itself. Is the central deity of your Order Sri Krishna of the Bhagavatham or Sri Chaitanya? Do you keep separate deities of worship of the two personalities? Do you see glorification of Chaitanya as no different from glorification of Krishna?

Sri Sri Radha-Krsna

Both Deities are seen.

Caitanya is the mercy of Krsna. His instruction was that we should worship Krsna, Govinda nicely. This will please Him. But factually, worship of Caitanya is worship of Krsna.

2. If an outsider enters your shrine, what is the Personality most apparent or emphasized?

Sri Sri Radha-Krsna

Because Lord Caitanya mercifully never accepts offenses, one normally would offer his obeisances to the Deities of Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityananda first to be purified, before bowing before Their Lordships, Sri Radha and Sri Krsna.

3. As an organization, you may regard Chaitanya as avatara of Krishna. However I am interested in how this is emphasized, if at all, to the general public. What are your opinions regarding this aspect?

This is not so important. One may regard Him as simply a great scholar. Only by devotion is the truth revealed. Lord Caitanya is Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. The important message brought by Gaura is the dharma of the Age - the glorification of the millions of holy names of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna.

 

4. Do you think your organization, if necessary and in terms of giving the personal-connection to God, can stand totally independent of the personality of Chaitanya, and solely on the personality of Krishna in Bhagavatham - by only emphasizing the latter and not even bringing in the former, except through his teachings about the former? (This is regarding the Bhakthi-emphasis that the organization puts forth, and not philosophy.)

In this fallen Age of Kali, people are unfortunate, with little inclination or skills to worship Sri Sri Radha-Krsna nicely. Lord Sri Krsna Caitanya is the embodiment of Sri Radha and Sri Krsna in one form. His special mercy is that He does not accept offenses, so it is possible for the fallen to actually worship Sri Sri Radha-Krsna through this magnanimous manifestation and make advancement toward pure love of God.

Gaura-Nitai

 

Thanks for your answers. They are quite clear.

[chandu_69]

 

Thanks for your answers. They are quite clear.

 

Caitanya caritamrta is crystal clear .There is no room for ambiguity.

[sambya]

 

Caitanya caritamrta is crystal clear .There is no room for ambiguity.

 

is it ? what might be the logic behind this sloka qouted in charitamrita from bhaktirasamritasindhu , 4/73 --

 

"byamohaya charaacharasya jagataste ............................................

..................................vivechanavyatikaram niteshu nishchiyate "

 

which translates as :

 

let the puranas and the agamas which glorify their respective gods speculate and continue doing that till the end of kalpa but all agamas eventually points out that lord vishnu is the supreme god.

 

if many other puranas and agamas differ then how can this decision be so comfortably arrived ? does that mean that only vaishnva puranas are to be read ? secondly this gives the highest position to vishnu not krishna . then agin in GV it is krishna who is highest and has four gunas more than vishnu(venumadhuri , lilamadhuri etc etc) . now that creates a inconsistency .

 

lastly i would like to mention that i just translated it from the original bengali translation and so there might be some small mistakes . but the central theme of the sloka is intact . i would be gratefull if someone provides a iskcon or gaudiya math translation of the same sloka(20th chapter , 143 )

[chandu_69]

 

is it ? what might be the logic behind this sloka qouted in charitamrita from bhaktirasamritasindhu , read ?

 

It is clear with regards to the questions asked by krishnaleela.

 

Read post no:1

[Sonic Yogi]

 

is it ? what might be the logic behind this sloka qouted in charitamrita from bhaktirasamritasindhu , 4/73 --

 

"byamohaya charaacharasya jagataste ............................................

..................................vivechanavyatikaram niteshu nishchiyate "

 

which translates as :

 

let the puranas and the agamas which glorify their respective gods speculate and continue doing that till the end of kalpa but all agamas eventually points out that lord vishnu is the supreme god.

 

if many other puranas and agamas differ then how can this decision be so comfortably arrived ? does that mean that only vaishnva puranas are to be read ? secondly this gives the highest position to vishnu not krishna . then agin in GV it is krishna who is highest and has four gunas more than vishnu(venumadhuri , lilamadhuri etc etc) . now that creates a inconsistency .

 

lastly i would like to mention that i just translated it from the original bengali translation and so there might be some small mistakes . but the central theme of the sloka is intact . i would be gratefull if someone provides a iskcon or gaudiya math translation of the same sloka(20th chapter , 143 )

The point is that Vishnu is the Supreme God in regards to this material world that is administrated by the Trimurti of Brahma, Siva and Vishnu.

 

Krishna is not involved in administrating the acit-jagat. In fact Krishna is not involved in administrating the cit-jagat as that is also done by the Catur-Vyuha - Vasudeva, Sankarsan, Pradyumna and Anniruddha.

 

Krishna only enjoys lila on his planet of Krsnaloka.

 

So, this statement you are grappling with is in regards to who is the supreme God of the material world. It is the matter of amongst the Tri-murti which one is supreme. The Vaishnava scholars and devotees have presented many Vedic references to support the supremecy of Vishnu.

Even in Krishnaloka, Krishna is not understood to be supreme God. On Krishnaloka they worship the Lord Narayana as God as the inhabitants there are under the spell of yogamaya and forgetful of Krishna's supreme Godship.

 

The Gaudiya acharyas and Goswamis have shown with authoritative evidence that Krishna is the source of Narayana, but even in Krishnaloka they are caused to forget that by yogamaya so they can enjoy intimate love with Krishna devoid of awe and reverence of his supreme Godship.

 

So, the very religious people of Vrindavan worship Lord Narayana as God in awe and reverence. They have the intimate personal love with Krishna.

So, in that sense, even on Krsnaloka, Lord Narayana is thought to be God.

 

 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 10.7.19

 

bhumau nidhaya tam gopi

vismita bhara-pidita

maha-purusham adadhyau

jagatam asa karmasu

 

SYNONYMS

 

bhumau -- on the ground; nidhaya -- placing; tam -- the child; gopi -- mother Yasoda; vismita -- being astonished; bhara-pidita -- being aggrieved by the weight of the child; maha-purusham -- Lord Vishnu, Narayana; adadhyau -- took shelter of; jagatam -- as if the weight of the whole world; asa -- engaged herself; karmasu -- in other household affairs.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Feeling the child to be as heavy as the entire universe and therefore being anxious, thinking that perhaps the child was being attacked by some other ghost or demon, the astonished mother Yasoda put the child down on the ground and began to think of Narayana. Foreseeing disturbances, she called for the brahmanas to counteract this heaviness, and then she engaged in her other household affairs. She had no alternative than to remember the lotus feet of Narayana, for she could not understand that Krishna was the original source of everything.

 

PURPORT

 

Mother Yasoda did not understand that Krishna is the heaviest of all heavy things and that Krishna rests within everything (mat-sthani sarva-bhutani). As confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (9.4), maya tatam idam sarvam jagad avyakta-murtina: Krishna is everywhere in His impersonal form, and everything rests upon Him. Nonetheless, na caham teshv avasthitah: Krishna is not everywhere. Mother Yasoda was unable to understand this philosophy because she was dealing with Krishna as His real mother by the arrangement of yogamaya. Not understanding the importance of Krishna, she could only seek shelter of Narayana for Krishna's safety and call the brahmanas to counteract the situation.

[gHari]

<a href=http://vedabase.net/sb/11/5/32/en target=new>Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.5.32</a>:

 

<center>

kRSNa-varNaM tviSAkRSNaM

sAGgopAGgAstra-pArSadam

yajJaiH saGkIrtana-prAyair

yajanti hi su-medhasaH

</center>

kRSNa-varNam--repeating the syllables kRS-Na; tviSA--with a luster; akRSNam--not black (golden); sa-aGga--along with associates; upa-aGga--servitors; astra--weapons; pArSadam--confidential companions; yajJaiH--by sacrifice; saGkIrtana-prAyaiH--consisting chiefly of congregational chanting; yajanti--they worship; hi--certainly; su-medhasaH--intelligent persons.

In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the names of KRSNa. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is KRSNa Himself. He is accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions.

 

PURPORT

 

This same verse is quoted by KRSNadAsa KavirAja in the Caitanya-caritAmRta, Adi-lIlA, Chapter Three, verse 52. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami PrabhupAda has given the following commentary on this verse. "This text is from SrImad-BhAgavatam (11.5.32). SrIla JIva GosvAmI has explained this verse in his commentary on the BhAgavatam known as the Krama-sandarbha, wherein he says that Lord KRSNa also appears with a golden complexion. That golden Lord KRSNa is Lord Caitanya, who is worshiped by intelligent men in this age. That is confirmed in SrImad-BhAgavatam by Garga Muni, who said that although the child KRSNa was blackish, He also appears in three other colors--red, white and yellow. He exhibited His white and red complexions in the Satya and TretA ages respectively. He did not exhibit the remaining color, yellow-gold, until He appeared as Lord Caitanya, who is known as Gaurahari.

 

 

"SrIla JIva GosvAmI explains that kRSNa-varNam means SrI KRSNa Caitanya. KRSNa-varNam and KRSNa Caitanya are equivalent. The name KRSNa appears with both Lord KRSNa and Lord Caitanya KRSNa. Lord SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but He always engages in describing KRSNa and thus enjoying transcendental bliss by chanting and remembering His name and form. Lord KRSNa Himself appears as Lord Caitanya to preach the highest gospel. VarNayati means ‘utters' or ‘describes.' Lord Caitanya always chants the holy name of KRSNa and describes it also, and because He is KRSNa Himself, whoever meets Him will automatically chant the holy name of KRSNa and later describe it to others. He injects one with transcendental KRSNa consciousness, which merges the chanter in transcendental bliss. In all respects, therefore, He appears before everyone as KRSNa, either by personality or by sound. Simply by seeing Lord Caitanya one at once remembers Lord KRSNa. One may therefore accept Him as viSNu-tattva. In other words, Lord Caitanya is Lord KRSNa Himself.

 

 

"SAGgopAGgAstra-pArSadam further indicates that Lord Caitanya is Lord KRSNa. His body is always decorated with ornaments of sandalwood and with sandalwood paste. By His superexcellent beauty He subdues all the people of the age. In other descents the Lord sometimes used weapons to defeat the demoniac, but in this age the Lord subdues them with His all-attractive figure as Caitanya MahAprabhu. SrIla JIva GosvAmI explains that His beauty is His astra, or weapon, to subdue the demons. Because He is all-attractive, it is to be understood that all the demigods lived with Him as His companions. His acts were uncommon and His associates wonderful. When He propagated the saGkIrtana movement, He attracted many great scholars and AcAryas, especially in Bengal and Orissa. Lord Caitanya is always accompanied by His best associates like Lord NityAnanda, Advaita, GadAdhara and SrIvAsa.

 

"SrIla JIva GosvAmI cites a verse from the Vedic literature that says that there is no necessity of performing sacrificial demonstrations or ceremonial functions. He comments that instead of engaging in such external, pompous exhibitions, all people, regardless of caste, color or creed, can assemble together and chant Hare KRSNa to worship Lord Caitanya. KRSNa-varNaM tviSAkRSNam [sB 11.5.32] indicates that prominence should be given to the name KRSNa. Lord Caitanya taught KRSNa consciousness and chanted the name of KRSNa. Therefore, to worship Lord Caitanya, everyone should together chant the mahA-mantra--Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare. To propagate worship in churches, temples or mosques is not possible because people have lost interest in that. But anywhere and everywhere, people can chant Hare KRSNa. Thus worshiping Lord Caitanya, they can perform the highest activity and fulfill the highest religious purpose of satisfying the Supreme Lord.

 

 

"SrIla SArvabhauma BhaTTAcArya, a famous disciple of Lord Caitanya, said: ‘The principle of transcendental devotional service having been lost, SrI KRSNa Caitanya has appeared to deliver again the process of devotion. He is so kind that He is distributing love of KRSNa. Everyone should be attracted more and more to His lotus feet, as humming bees are attracted to a lotus flower.' "

 

 

The incarnation of Caitanya MahAprabhu is also described in the SrI ViSNu-sahasra-nAma, which appears in Chapter 189 of the DAna-dharma-parva of MahAbhArata. SrIla JIva GosvAmI has quoted this reference as follows: suvarNa-varNo hemAGgo varAGgaz candanAGgadI. "In His early pastimes He appears as a householder with a golden complexion. His limbs are beautiful, and His body, smeared with the pulp of sandalwood, seems like molten gold." He has also quoted, sannyAsa-kRc chamaH zAnto niSThA-zAnti-parAyaNaH: "In His later pastimes He accepts the sannyAsa order, and He is equipoised and peaceful. He is the highest abode of peace and devotion, for He silences the impersonalist nondevotees."

 

[Narasingh]

 

is it ? what might be the logic behind this sloka qouted in charitamrita from bhaktirasamritasindhu , 4/73 --

 

"byamohaya charaacharasya jagataste ............................................

..................................vivechanavyatikaram niteshu nishchiyate "

 

which translates as :

 

let the puranas and the agamas which glorify their respective gods speculate and continue doing that till the end of kalpa but all agamas eventually points out that lord vishnu is the supreme god.

 

if many other puranas and agamas differ then how can this decision be so comfortably arrived ? does that mean that only vaishnva puranas are to be read ? secondly this gives the highest position to vishnu not krishna . then agin in GV it is krishna who is highest and has four gunas more than vishnu(venumadhuri , lilamadhuri etc etc) . now that creates a inconsistency .

 

lastly i would like to mention that i just translated it from the original bengali translation and so there might be some small mistakes . but the central theme of the sloka is intact . i would be gratefull if someone provides a iskcon or gaudiya math translation of the same sloka(20th chapter , 143 )

It simply means that an in depth study of the Vaishnava Puranas with an open heart will not leave anyone wanting. They will be fulfilled. The Names Vishnu and Krishna are commonly interchanged throughout Gaudiya literatures. Within those literatures, it establishes that Krsna is the "highest". What it is saying is that Vaishnava Puranas are the most complete among other puranas and agamas. Those Vaishnava Puranas will then lead you to Krishna.