How do we verify success in spiritual life?

[Kulapavana]

Pranams...

 

How do we verify success in spiritual life?

 

When is a disciple a success?

When is a guru a success?

When is a spiritual movement a success?

When is your spiritual life a success?

When is a particular spiritual practice a success?

 

It seems easy to cover up just about any failure with complex philosophical excuses. But will a child like person buy such explanations?

 

Does Krsna seem closer to you today than He was 5 or 15 years ago? Are you making progress? Are you less attached to material concepts and posessions? Do you treat others like they were really spirit souls, parts and parcels of Krsna?

 

I would like to hear your reflections in this area.

[Kali_Upasaka]

Success/Failure are materialistic terms used by materialists as an yardstick to measure material things. I do not think if we can use it to measure anything spiritual.

[Amlesh]

By Adhering to Truth and immense love for Sri Hari.

[Kulapavana]

 

Success/Failure are materialistic terms used by materialists as an yardstick to measure material things. I do not think if we can use it to measure anything spiritual.

 

 

 

yunjann evam sadatmanam

yogi niyata-manasah

santim nirvana-paramam

mat-samstham adhigacchati

 

"By meditating in this manner, always controlling the body, mind and activities, the mystic transcendentalist attains to the kingdom of God through cessation of material existence." (Bg. 6.15)

 

Prabhupada writes in his purport to 6th Chapter: "Thus carefully controlling his mind, the successful yogi engages his mind, body and his self in Krishna's service. A true yogi is a sannyasi, who is unattached to the fruits of his work, not one who performs no work."

 

Statements like that can be seen as speaking in terms of success/failure in regards to spiritual topics.

[sambya]

these are all very relative terms and multiple explantions and answers may be provided .......................... but i shall try to give one line answers..........

 

 

When is a disciple a success?

when he follows the words of his guru with genuine love,perfect belief, undeterred enthusiasm and till last breath.

 

 

When is a guru a success?

if even one shishya can be liberated from the material world.

 

 

When is a spiritual movement a success?

much more tough to answer . if it survives through time it might be a good determining point . insignificant movements perish or crumble within a short time after their stipulated work in this world is finished . but most importantly how much positive things it is giving to mankind . positive things include spiritual knowledge and many other things . because a spiritual movement is complete renewal of dried life force in every field , spiritual ,material , wealth , literary , sociological , cutural ,educational, etc. think of the spiritual movement of mahaprabhu to compare this .

 

 

When is your spiritual life a success?

in ideal sense , when you see god personally ! in a narrrower sense , when you make steady progress . progress might falter many times but it should rise up in long term - like the stock exchange charts rectfying itself after corrections .

 

 

When is a particular spiritual practice a success?

if you feel the bliss yourself and there in an increase in displeasure of wordly things . for example sometimes after spending a wonderfull spiritual day you caome back and hear some ordinary song playing in the television which becomes unbearable to your ears . quite suprisingly the same song might be very appealing the rest of the time . there are times when you feel disgusted with other people around you incessantly talking anout material chores and you feel like running away and cry . maybe such feeling indicate that your sadhana is going right .

 

but alas , how long can we hold on to that rare moments of divine sadness ??

[sant]

excellent sambya

[Kulapavana]

 

excellent sambya

I second that

 

What we need is more specifics...

 

For example, if we see that trully fallen people become truly and sustainably purified by following a particular process, than that process can be seen as effective.

 

If out of thousands of sincere followers only one becomes a pure devotee, that is not such a great success, as some people are already quite advanced when taking shelter of a particular guru. The same can be said about a particular way of sadhana - such things need to work for a lot of people to be considered valid and worthy of further of propagation.

[melvin]

This is the 1st recorded spiritual success among those who have performed and watched it. Imagine 4 minutes and 40 seconds of dancing the song Jai Ho from the Best Motion Picture of the Year( Slum Dog Millionaire)which I predicted to win the Oscar award. See how ecstatic these CPDRC inmates are when they dance this number(

)

[Guest guest]

"This is the test of advancement in Krsna consciousness: a person advancing in Krsna consciousness must lose interest in material activities and personal sense gratification."

 

Krsna The Supreme Personality of Godhead - The Rasa Dance: Introduction

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[sant]

What Exactly Is This Video Melvin

[melvin]

 

"This is the test of advancement in Krsna consciousness: a person advancing in Krsna consciousness must lose interest in material activities and personal sense gratification."

 

Krsna The Supreme Personality of Godhead - The Rasa Dance: Introduction

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Oh Lord just see how your devotees become ecstatic when they dance your famous movie soundtrack (Slam Dog Millionaire) number Jai HO. See(

) how these CPDRC inmates just love to dance it coming all the way from India to Cebu City, Philippines. They don`t even understand the meaning of the song`s lyrics and yet they sing and dance it would joy and laughter .

[melvin]

 

What Exactly Is This Video Melvin

 

Would you like Sant to dance with me this song Jai Ho together? Me here and you there? Both of us watching and dancing simultaneously with these CPDRC inmates on http://youtube.com/watch?v=uTMUZ39UHgo? You can feel the joy and ecstasy building up inside you as the music Jai Ho begins to rise up to its final ending(Of course you should also watch the Best Motion Picture of the Year, Slum Dog Millionaire). Latika is Radha. Jamal is Krsnah and Salim is Balarama in the material world. That`s the reason why the movie has this universal appeal on the masses. Even the people here in Cebu City have started to open their world maps and history books to find out where India is located and the ancient culture she has embraced. Once they start to get interested in Hinduism and Krsnah then that`s real spiritual success. And all because of what these CPDRC inmates have shown to the world that they ,too,could also( even if they are the most despised) sing and dance of what is culturally Hindu. 90 percent of us here in Cebu are Catholics. To think that it was here in Cebu ( they call us folks Visaya, a sanskrit word for a person who loves to engage himself in alcoholic intoxication, gambling, and illicit sex) Christianity in all of Asia was born.

[sant]

Are You Sure You Want To Dance.or Are You Joking.

I Still Dont Get You.ive Seen The Movie How Is Etc Etc Characters Krishna Radha.

And This Is Not Even An Indian Movie.

This Actually Shows Indian People Characters doing cruel things example the host fooling the boy,the friend taking advantage of latika,indian people stealing the tourists cars etc..

[melvin]

 

Are You Sure You Want To Dance.or Are You Joking.

I Still Dont Get You.ive Seen The Movie How Is Etc Etc Characters Krishna Radha.

And This Is Not Even An Indian Movie.

This Actually Shows Indian People Characters doing cruel things Mostly.

 

No. I`m not joking. While I`m writing this reply I have been re-rewinding The danceable song Jai Ho performed by the CPDRC inmates. And my body is moving to the rythm of the song`s remarkable melody. I wont argue with you if Slum Dog Millionaire is not even an India movie. But the majority of the people here can relate to this Jai Ho movie .It`s because most of them live in the slums, squatter areas just like in the Jai Ho movie we saw. Majority of us Visayans here are poor. As the gov`t physician of CPDRC do you know how much I earn per month? Why its only roughly USD 400 (20 thousand pesos).

[sant]

my aim is not to insult you sir.

im sorry if you get such less money.

But when you said the characters represent radha krishna i started thinking.

anyway i still dont understand that.

i forgot to ask the full form of cprd.

[melvin]

 

my aim is not to insult you sir.

im sorry if you get such less money.

But when you said the characters represent radha krishna i started thinking.

anyway i still dont understand that.

i forgot to ask the full form of cprd.

 

Sant, my friend, I get less money because most of the taxes the gov`t get from my salary goes to the pockets of corrupt gov`t officials. Even if I get less pay at least I`m happy to have met the wonderful flute player of Vrndavan. That`s my only consolation. He considers me His friend. What more could I ask from the Lord? CPDRC stands for Cebu Provincial Rehabilitation and Detention Center.

[sant]

 

Sant, my friend

im not worthy enough for you to call my friend.

I salute you sir.

[melvin]

 

im not worthy enough for you to call my friend.

I salute you sir.

 

Yes you are. We`ve been communicating way back in some thread, Sant, my brother. Remember? You really thought I was different from the other Melvin1. Because both of our views opposed to each other.

I saw the Lord only once in dream several years ago when I was writing for a local daily newspaper (The Freeman) here in Cebu. They even gave me a space to write my column entitled, A grain of Devotion by Naradadeva Bhagavan. That was my pen name I used before to hide my identity until the readers found out I was Dr. Melvin G. Mabalay.

[sant]

thank you

ofcourse i remember and form that time i like talking to you.

but theres a lot of maybe age gap and i might not do the selfless work that you are doing .anyway cut this .

[melvin]

I think this is the 3rd or 4th time we talked this way. Once the ball starts rolling, it really goes rolling hitting some tinpins. My favorite indoor sport is bowling. Maybe someday we get to meet and start hitting the tinpins by rolling these weigh calibrated balls on the center lane. Well, I do hope so. It`s getting late. It`s 2:20 am here. And I wonder why I`m not yet so sleepy.

If I can`t anymore reply it means my spirit self have already taken that first early morning ride to dreamland.

[ranjeetmore]

I think sambya is right..

 

Bliss is the only measuring tool.

 

The sadhaka feels bilss even before the visions appear,thus it is understood he is advancing.Also humility goes hand in hand with this bliss.If someone calls the advancing devotee a pig,he hardly cares.If such a state comes,know that you are advancing.

 

The true gurudeva is immersed in bliss always.

 

The spiritual movements can never be success..not over a long time...Time introduces people to the movement..who don't even attain bhakti before the Gurudeva departs.

 

Althought these disciples are good at heart,they haven't realisd the truth.The movement inevitably fails.

[stonehearted]

My spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, cited this verse as the standard for measuring spiritual progress:

 

bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir

 

anyatra caisa trika eka-kalah

 

prapadyamanasya yathasnatah syus

 

tustih pustih ksud-apayo 'nu-ghasam

 

Devotion, direct experience of the Supreme Lord, and detachment from other things -- these three occur simultaneously for one who has taken shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in the same way that pleasure, nourishment and relief from hunger come simultaneously and increasingly, with each bite, for a person engaged in eating. (SB 11.2.42)

[melvin]

If we can still remember the Lord`s name right before we die is in itself a verifiable evidence of success in spiritual life. A million thanks, my dear stonehearted, for letting me remember my Guru( His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada).

[sambya]

 

For example, if we see that trully fallen people become truly and sustainably purified by following a particular process, than that process can be seen as effective.

yes that is also a nice determinant . as i said before , there are many ways to verify if a process is effective !

 

 

If out of thousands of sincere followers only one becomes a pure devotee, that is not such a great success, as some people are already quite advanced when taking shelter of a particular guru. The same can be said about a particular way of sadhana - such things need to work for a lot of people to be considered valid and worthy of further of propagation.

thats a nice point ! what if the shisya is already quite advanced ? but then again finding a guru is predestined and direct manifestation of god's will. so any well advanced shishya would never find a worthless guru . circumstances would automatically drw him to someone genuine and powerfull in spiritual world !

[melvin]

 

thats a nice point ! what if the shisya is already quite advanced ? but then again finding a guru is predestined and direct manifestation of god's will. so any well advanced shishya would never find a worthless guru . circumstances would automatically drw him to someone genuine and powerfull in spiritual world !

 

i joined the catholic charismatic movement in our locale 23 years ago because i found the sermons of priests at the pulpit inside churches boring. i wanted to be spiritually re-energized. i had no knowledge of bhakti-yoga. never even saw the face of my guru.

 

to further my spiritual advancement, i decided to write and contribute to a news outlet my spiritual views. then all of the sudden, appeared my childhood friend in front of my view sharing to me his own spiritual views at the same time showing to me a leaflet about reincarnation and karma.

 

not satisfied by this, he lent me his 64 volumes of srimad bhagavatam. and the rest was history.