bhaktajan Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 obeisances to you too ... i dont think im senior to you . im stilll a student and getting educated ! in my final years though.... i see from your post that you are new to the forum !! i would advise you to hang on and extensively read through the old threads to have a better idea of why me and others are up in arms against iskcon . done that , you would perhaps concentrate more on doing something with such characters who are doing much to defame iskcon than requesting me............ i can appreciate the positive sides of iskcon and the work it has done in the last century to spread indian culture to the western lands . but no sane person with minimal self esteem would tolerate continuous hate posts and derogation of other thoughts( even hinduism ) , based on incorrect interpretations of many slokas and wrong teachings !! if iskcon devotees had kept silent and allowed others to live in peace such questions would not have arisen at all !! please refer to the thread " shiva maha purana doubts" and check out what a gaudiya vaishnava administrator of this forum has to say in this regard . love others and you will also be loved-- simple logic which many iskconites fail to understand . by the way i like your approach ......perhaps you could stay aroung the forum and provide a better picture of gaudiya philosophy than what others do ..... sorry if i have offended you . pranaam Dasosmi, Welcome to wild-west of Vedantic gestations where logic is presented with that murphy's-law golden touch. You can practice your debate &/or personability-seduction skills here. The only draw back [other then fraterising with the Mayavad-esque contingency] is the temptation to go off-topic, which happens all the time --like herein . . . Bhaktajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've encountered these theories before that cause the youth to swoon in their desire to abandon conscience for revelry. Some involve claims of old Egyptian stories that match and predate the gospel, that the Christ is an analogy for the Sun, etc. Only direct religious experience can defeat these organized plots against the religious fabric of the West. Soon, India will be the next target. The depth of evil in this world is unimaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I do not know the answer to this question myself and have pondered it more and more lately. As with all knowledge it is very tricky and it is hard to know who to trust in regards to history and its accuracy. I like to think Jesus was real because I think it is a beautiful story how he stood against the tyranny of his day but just because I like to think it doesn't make it real. I am currently reading the book The Controversy of Zion and it has finally given me a frame of reference and context in which to examine the Old Testament and from this frame of reference I have to admit the God of the old testament doesn't seem to bear very much resemblence to Krishna but who knows for sure and who knows which versions of history are accurate and which versions are disinformation created by the powers that be to manipulate the masses. For me I guess it comes down to the fact that the more I learn about history the more I realize how incredibly complicated and miserable the material world is. I honestly do not even know if Krishna is real but I like to think so and I have had a few experience where it seemed like some sort of divine force was looking out for me but it could be just a trick of the mind. I sincerely hope Krishna is real because I yearn to one day regain my lost innocence so to speak and live somewhere where anxiety is not so prominent. I know one thing as I grow older and older I find fundamentalist Christians to be more and more hard for me to deal with because they lump everyone who believes in reincarnation or who doesn't interpret the Bible exactly as they do into Madame Blovotskys theosophy or new agism which is just plain obnoxious to deal with. I believe there is a chance that the powers that be will orchestrate a third world war or microchip humans and bring the population of the Earth down to 500 million or a billion but I don't think that means Jesus will come down in a cloud to me but I suppose ultimately anything is possible. If things ever did change in my view in this regard it would be because humans raised their level of consciousness not necessarily because they were saved by a supernatural being but then again even the Vedas seem to have supernatural incarnation so who the hell knows anything for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I've encountered these theories before that cause the youth to swoon in their desire to abandon conscience for revelry. Some involve claims of old Egyptian stories that match and predate the gospel, that the Christ is an analogy for the Sun, etc. Only direct religious experience can defeat these organized plots against the religious fabric of the West. Soon, India will be the next target. The depth of evil in this world is unimaginable. The depth of evil is truly astounding. I have just recently woken up to the levels that the powers that be go to destroy and it almost just knocks me to the ground emotionally sometimes now. I have been reading all about the banking cartels and reading books about Stalin and the Nazis for months on end now. I never realized how desensitized I had become until digging into this stuff and I guess on some level it is good because I am regaining some of my humanity instead of being carried away by the corporate media induced tide of desensitization that has swept through America and forcibly injected into our culture. I think you are right they are going to try to turn India into neocon/neoliberal materialists warmongers if they can get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Still, there is no harm believing that Jesus of New Testament is a historical person. It is a positive and a heart warming story, just like the one about Santa Claus. I like the Santa Claus story better, because no religious wars were ever waged in his name. Do you know what "historical" means? It means that somewhere in the past, that event or person was real. So how is it that you can say that Jesus was a historical person when there is no evidence whatsoever that such person have existed? The difference between Santa Claus and Jesus is that, Santa Claus do not damn each and every one who didn't believe in them and allowed his followers to wage war for others' disbelief. Believing in a LIE IS DANGEROUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Do you know what "historical" means? It means that somewhere in the past, that event or person was real. So how is it that you can say that Jesus was a historical person when there is no evidence whatsoever that such person have existed? The difference between Santa Claus and Jesus is that, Santa Claus do not damn each and every one who didn't believe in them and allowed his followers to wage war for others' disbelief. Believing in a LIE IS DANGEROUS. Exactly. They believe that they are going to go to heaven just for believing in Jesus. They blaspheme every other religion in the world and call Krishna the Devil etc. etc. So, certainly, the Jesus idea is taking many people to Hell all the while they are thinking they are going to heaven. Believing in Jesus is not going to erase all their karma and sins. They are being cheated by Evangelical preachers who are feeding them a myth and guaranteeing them salvation. Well, that is a very bad thing and somebody has to stand up against this myth and try to explain to the people the truth about the Jesus myth. Believing in Jesus is not going to save anyone. That they are being told that is very wrong and actually evil. People think that "Oh they believe in God, how nice". But, it is not just about believing in God. They think some mythological character is going to come back to Earth and take them all to heaven. Such a pathetic fraud must be exposed for the benefit of mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Now that I view humanity as a hive being directed by the supersoul I am more inclined to believe in the existance of Krishna than Jesus even though on the surface it really takes almost a leap of faith to believe either one considering that they both are engaged in supernatural occurances that you don't see on every street corner but at the same time I can't say with any certainty Jesus did or did not exist. I am sure there are plenty of truth seekers that have died horrible deaths at the hands of the ruling class throughout the centuries so I don't see it as that incredibly of a far fetched story and in some ways the story of Jesus does have some resemblence to the kind of stories you can read in Srimad Bhagavatam. I can respect Vaisnavas fighting some of the gross misconceptions in Christianity as it now exists but I don't see how a lot of these misconceptions are in the story of Jesus so much as they are added by all the different interpretations of how his life is portrayed in the Bible and the different sects that have emerged. Just because you fellas read something in a book is not absolute proof to me and does not warrant the conviction some possess with absolute certainty that he didn't exist but everything is open for consideration especially when you consider how history and knowledge have appeared to be manipulated to keep the masses under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Exactly.They believe that they are going to go to heaven just for believing in Jesus. They blaspheme every other religion in the world and call Krishna the Devil etc. etc. So, certainly, the Jesus idea is taking many people to Hell all the while they are thinking they are going to heaven. My View: Self-realized Christians don`t blaspheme other religions. They don`t call Krsna devil. Believing in Jesus is not going to erase all their karma and sins. My View: Does it also erase your karma and sins if you believe in Krsna? They are being cheated by Evangelical preachers who are feeding them a myth and guaranteeing them salvation. My View: You still have to meet the real Jesus not the mythical one. Well, that is a very bad thing and somebody has to stand up against this myth and try to explain to the people the truth about the Jesus myth. My View: You will do a lot of explaining once you meet the real Jesus. Believing in Jesus is not going to save anyone. That they are being told that is very wrong and actually evil. My View: Do you think you are already saved by believing in Krsna? Then deriding other`s religious beliefs? Krsna bhaktas don`t do that. People think that "Oh they believe in God, how nice". But, it is not just about believing in God. They think some mythological character is going to come back to Earth and take them all to heaven. My View: There`s in the US Constitution the freedom to express one`s religious beliefs. We have to respect that. I hope you won`t be elected US Pres. in your next life. Such a pathetic fraud must be exposed for the benefit of mankind. My View: With that statement, now I know who you really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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