Is murti worship necessary for spiritual progress?

[Smiley]

I have heard it said that during different yugas different methods of spiritual practice were recommended as most beneficial. In your opinion is murti puja necessary for a sadhaka/spiritual aspirant who already restricts his/her senses and worships his/her ishta devata by other means, i.e. scripture study, meditation, transcendental sound vibration, etc. or is murti worship not absolutely necessary but just another acceptable option?

 

Personally I do all of the above except murti puja because I do not feel attracted to it. However I see no reason to criticize other Hindus who feel that it is important to them. I also don't have a firm philosophical basis for my decision on this - I am simply practicing what I feel is my free will to offer what I wish to offer. I would like to hear the opinions and reasoning of other aspirants on this sadhana. Thank you.

[theist]

No it's not essential. Hearing and chanting the Holy Names of the Lord are the prime method for God realization

[mydearindian]

I am happy to know that you are in love of God. My answer is Murti worship is not necessary for spiritual progress. But it may not be necessary only for you. Others may need according they way they have chosen to worship.

 

It is like if we conduct any meeting then usually we invite a senior member and also we offer some flowers / sweets and praise them. If necessary we praise a lot so that he can help to finish our work.

 

Worshiping Murti is also like that. It has some advantages.

 

Murti worship is one way of showing love to God. One of the ways to covey our love to God. But it is not the only way.

 

And with Many Mantras and Tantras we energize the Murti so that God can come and reside in that Murti. In many temples usually priests energizes the Murtis so that we can get God’s love. And this is also one of the ways to love and praise the Lord. But this is not the only way to praise the Lord.

 

Another advantage is we develop concentration power by worshiping Murtis. And this is also one of the ways.

 

And yeah there can be some other which I do not know.

 

Finally my opinion is God should stay in our Soul and mind forever. We should control our senses. Without this there is no use if we worship Murtis or concentrate on Murtis. Hence you need not to worry about it.

[Sonic Yogi]

All the great acharyas in the Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaya follow the Pancaratrika system of worship.

In this age, it is most recommended.

In the Pancaratrika system, deity worship is integral.

 

Without deity worship, the neophyte cannot make proper advancement in worship of the Holy Name.

 

All the great Goswamis established temples and deity worship, because they understand that deity worship is essential in the Pancaratrika system.

 

In fact, they teach that deity worship is essential for the neophytes, which therefore includes most every aspiring Vaishnava.

 

Deity worship is essential for the neophyte.

It is not essential for the topmost Maha-Bhagavata, but then again we are not Maha-Bhagavata.

 

If a neophyte neglect to worship the form of the Lord and simply chants the Name, he cannot make tangible advancement.

 

The form of the Lord must be there in the mind at least when the chanting of the Name if being practiced.

 

One of the results of chanting the Holy Name is that the chanter starts to visualize the form of the Lord.

 

Neophytes cannot neglect deity worship.

[ranjeetmore]

deity worship is un necessary.But if the sadhaka has somehow an attraction to deity and has somehow acquired faith that deity is Sri Krsna Himself,he should follow it without any hesitation.

[thehat]

I think deity worship is fantastic in the sense that can make us more inclined to personalism. That is to say if someones goal revolves around personalism. So in the case of myself I think murti worship is certainly necessary for my spiritual progress. It reminds me of the form of God etc, and also I can do some seva to the deity easily and exchange moods with the deity etc. So it's a good practise for me and I enjoy it very much. It is very enjoyable to sit with form of God in front of you and speak with it. But ultimately depends on ones goal eh?!

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Another point is that if someone doesn't like to perform deity worship themselves, they can still go to a temple and witness the deity worship in the temple. The effect is almost same, though slightly different.

[Kali_Upasaka]

There was no worship of Murtis during the Vedic period.

 

Though it is not essential in the path of Advaita and Yoga, it is definitely essential in Bhakthi.

 

In Mantra yoga the Mantra becomes the Deity once you have got Mantra Siddhi. But even in Mantra Yoga Bhakthi is dominant. So the need for the Murti.

[kaisersose]

 

There was no worship of Murtis during the Vedic period.

 

Not by Vedic Brahmanas. However, there were non-vedic people during that time in India who worshipped anthromorphic Gods like Shiva, Mother Goddess, etc.

 

 

Though it is not essential in the path of Advaita and Yoga, it is definitely essential in Bhakthi.

 

Bhakti and idolatory is a big part of Advaita - contrary to what competitors claim. There is hardly any Advaitin who have given up Bhakti.

 

Cheers

[theist]

 

Another point is that if someone doesn't like to perform deity worship themselves, they can still go to a temple and witness the deity worship in the temple. The effect is almost same, though slightly different.

 

Very true. This has been my only connection to formal Deity worship and has been very helpful in the past At home perhaps a picture of the Lord to which I occasionally collect flowers and place before the picture.

 

God consciousness and devotion to the Lord is not a static narrow thing. Arjuna engaged in worship by shooting arrows into the opposing parties on Krishna's instructions.

 

Hearing and chanting is stressed though. The best part of any temple visit has always been the congregational chanting.

[Kali_Upasaka]

 

Not by Vedic Brahmanas. However, there were non-vedic people during that time in India who worshipped anthromorphic Gods like Shiva, Mother Goddess, etc.

 

Bhakti and idolatory is a big part of Advaita - contrary to what competitors claim. There is hardly any Advaitin who have given up Bhakti.

 

Cheers

I did not find any mention of idol worship in the four Vedas. They were only concerned about conducting Yagnas.

 

 

The class of "Vedic texts" is aggregated around the four canonical Saṃhitās or Vedas proper (turīya), of which three (traya) are related to the performance of yajna (sacrifice) in historical Vedic religion:

 

1. the Ṛgveda, containing hymns to be recited by the hotṛ or chief priest;

2. the Yajurveda, containing formulas to be recited by the adhvaryu or officiating priest;

3. the Sāmaveda, containing formulas to be chanted by the udgātṛ.

 

The fourth is the Atharvaveda, a collection of spells and incantations, stories, predictions, apotropaic charms and some speculative hymns.

 

 

The corpus of Vedic Sanskrit texts includes:

 

* The Samhita (Sanskrit saṃhitā, "collection"), are collections of metric texts ("mantras"). There are four "Vedic" Samhitas: the Rig-Veda, Sama-Veda, Yajur-Veda, and Atharva-Veda, most of which are available in several recensions (śākhā). In some contexts, the term Veda is used to refer to these Samhitas. This is the oldest layer of Vedic texts, apart from the Rigvedic hymns, which were probably essentially complete by 1200 BC, dating to ca. the 12th to 10th centuries BC. The complete corpus of Vedic mantras as collected in Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance (1907) consists of some 89,000 padas (metric feet), of which 72,000 occur in the four Samhitas.

* The Brahmanas are prose texts that discuss, in technical fashion, the solemn sacrificial rituals as well as comment on their meaning and many connected themes. Each of the Brahmanas is associated with one of the Samhitas or its recensions. The Brahmanas may either form separate texts or can be partly integrated into the text of the Samhitas. They may also include the Aranyakas and Upanishads.

* The Aranyakas , "wilderness texts" or "forest treaties", were composed by people who meditated in the woods as recluses and are the third part of the Vedas. The texts contain discussions and interpretations of dangerous rituals (to be studied outside the settlement) and various sorts of additional materials. It is frequently read in secondary literature.

* some of the older Mukhya Upanishads (Bṛhadāraṇyaka, Chandogya, Kaṭha).

 

There are many followers of Ramana Maharishi who do not worship idols. That is Suddha Advaita. Not the modified Advaita propagated by the Ramakrishna Mission and the Smarthas.

[Smiley]

Was the Vedic period before the Pandavas? I believe there was worship of the Shiva Lingam

during the time of the Pandavas but I don't know if that is considered a kind of murti.

 

 

There was no worship of Murtis during the Vedic period.

 

Though it is not essential in the path of Advaita and Yoga, it is definitely essential in Bhakthi.

 

In Mantra yoga the Mantra becomes the Deity once you have got Mantra Siddhi. But even in Mantra Yoga Bhakthi is dominant. So the need for the Murti.

[Kali_Upasaka]

The Vedic period was thousands of years before the period of the Itihasaas. Ramayana and Mahabharata.

 

The Purva Mimansa which based of the Karma Kanda of the Vedas does not even believe in a GOD.

 

IDOL worship dates back only to the Itihasic/Puranic period.

 

But I would like to always add that these are based on the present available evidence.

[chandu_69]

 

 

The Purva Mimansa which based of the Karma Kanda of the Vedas does not even believe in a GOD.

.

Leaving aside the dating aspect for a while, you are factually incorrect that Purva mimansa doesn't believe in god.

 

Purva mimamsa instructs all beings to get related to "Omnipotent Main Being"-Jaimini 6.3.2 and it is a dosha(wrong) not being related to The supreme omnipotent being(6.3.3)..Mimamsa literally means investigation.Investigation in to nature of Dharma based on Vedas.

http://www.mimamsa.org/terms/purva_mimamsa.html

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimamsa

[Kali_Upasaka]

 

The Purva Mimamsa has a number of deities. The offerings may be made to them. The practice of Vedic Dharma is not in need of any Supreme Being or God. Vedic religion does not require the assistance of God. The eternal self-existent Veda serves all the purposes of Jaimini and the Purva Mimamsakas. Jaimini does not so much deny God as ignore Him.

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Purva_Mimamsa/id/23121

[Kali_Upasaka]

 

The Purva-Mimamsa school held dharma to be equivalent to following the prescriptions of the Samhitas and their Brahmana commentaries pertaining to the correct performance of Vedic rituals. Seen in this light, Mimamsa is fundamentally ritualist, placing great weight on the performance of Karma or action as spoken by the Vedas. In this sense, it is a counter-movement to the mysticism of Vedanta, disapproving or de-emphasising moksha or salvation. To a certain extent, Purva-Mimamsa is atheist, placing all importance in proper practice as opposed to belief, rejecting a creator God as well as any scriptures on dharma outside the Vedic tradition, yet accepting svarga or heaven awaiting the person who has acted righteously in his or her life. In its rejection of belief in a God, it is related to the nastika Carvaka school.

http://www.indianetzone.com/9/purva_mimamsa_philosophy.htm

[chandu_69]

 

The Purva Mimamsa has a number of deities. The offerings may be made to them. The practice of Vedic Dharma is not in need of any Supreme Being or God. Vedic religion does not require the assistance of God

 

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Purva_Mimamsa/id/23121

 

That view of the website owner is contradictory to say the least.

[Kali_Upasaka]

The second quote proves my point.

 

 

The Purva-Mimamsa school held dharma to be equivalent to following the prescriptions of the Samhitas and their Brahmana commentaries pertaining to the correct performance of Vedic rituals. Seen in this light, Mimamsa is fundamentally ritualist, placing great weight on the performance of Karma or action as spoken by the Vedas. In this sense, it is a counter-movement to the mysticism of Vedanta, disapproving or de-emphasising moksha or salvation. To a certain extent, Purva-Mimamsa is atheist, placing all importance in proper practice as opposed to belief, rejecting a creator God as well as any scriptures on dharma outside the Vedic tradition, yet accepting svarga or heaven awaiting the person who has acted righteously in his or her life. In its rejection of belief in a God, it is related to the nastika Carvaka school.

 

http://www.indianetzone.com/9/purva_mimamsa_philosophy.htm

 

 

I would also like to believe that Temples and Murtis existed from the Vedic times. But so far not even a single temple from the time Before Christ has ben discovered, though many Buddhist Viharas have been discovered.

[kaisersose]

 

I would also like to believe that Temples and Murtis existed from the Vedic times. But so far not even a single temple from the time Before Christ has ben discovered, though many Buddhist Viharas have been discovered.

 

Idol worship has been around since IVC - academically the indigenous population in that region before the Vedic culture. Plenty of Shiva idols and mother goddess idols have been uncovered in these sites. That is what I was referring to.

 

Janamejaya, Parikshit, the Kuru clan, Vishwamitra, Vashista, Krishna the son of Devaki - all these names appear in in the Vedas. It is not really clear, what came first. The Mahabharata itself says it was a short text at first and then gradually evolved into its present size.

 

Cheers

[Kali_Upasaka]

Yes. You are correct. Thank you. The Indus Valley seals are the earliest forms. Of course we still know very little about them. There a number of spurious claims.

 

You are referring to the Jnana Kanda of the Vedas. The Upanishads. These came much later than the Karma Kanda. Some of the later Upanishads are of the same age as the epics. But all of them came at least a couple of thousand years later than Rig Veda.

[chandu_69]

 

The second quote proves my point

http://www.indianetzone.com/9/purva_...philosophy.htm .

 

yes.Except that the article (quoted webpage ) doesn't even quote anything from purvamimamsa sutras while declaring that purvamimasa is atheistic .:D

 

I already posted(post 14) "Omnipotent Main Being" from Jaimini 6.3.2 and 6.3.3 and the absolute need to connect to the Omnipotent Main Being".

 

Btw, Jaimini was a disciple of Veda Vyas.

 

 

But so far not even a single temple from the time Before Christ has ben discovered, though many Buddhist Viharas have been discovered.

 

You are very sure of it, aint you ?.The temples built before 2000 years need not survive.

 

The texts by Panini (520 BC - 460 BC) describes temples of India in 5th century bc.

 

You know panini, dont you?

[Kali_Upasaka]

I have put raghu and chandu_69 on my ignore list.

[chandu_69]

 

I have put raghu and chandu_69 on my ignore list.

 

And you want to tell every one that.Seems that my disagreement with your posting of some unknown author's ideas on hinduism has made you angry and withdraw in to a shell.