Environmentalism and Krsna Consciousness?

[AncientMariner]

Just curious to see what the views of Krsna Consciousness people is in regards to global warming/climate change, environmentalism and what kind of society would Krsna Conscious people consider ideal in terms of human population numbers and what technologies would be saved and what would be scrapped.

 

 

I have found some quotes from environmentalists and various famous personalities that seem to advocate many billions of people need to die and people need to use more contraception in order for the environment to be saved. Was wondering if Krsna Conscious people are in agreement with these sorts of views?

 

 

“Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”

- Professor Maurice King

 

“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”

– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

 

“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”

-Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

 

“Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor.”

- Sir James Lovelock, Healing Gaia

 

“The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man.”

- Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point (Very similar to a quote from Agent Smith in The Matrix)

 

"A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells, the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions."

- Prof. Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb

 

"A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible."

- United Nations, Global Biodiversity Assessment

 

“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”

- Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor

 

“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.”

- Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind

 

"One America burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it's just as bad not to say it."

- Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier

 

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”

- Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund

 

“I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”

- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

 

“The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.”

- Christopher Manes, Earth First!

 

"Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."

- David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

[primate]

 

Globally, total fertility is expected to fall from 2.56 children per woman in 2005-2010 to

2.02 in 2045-2050 according to the medium variant. However, in the more developed

regions, total fertility is projected to increase from 1.64 children per woman currently to

1.80 in 2045-2050. A major reduction of fertility is projected for the group of least

developed countries (from 4.39 to 2.41 children per woman) and the fertility of the rest of

the developing world is expected to drop from 2.46 children per woman currently to 1.93

in 2045-2050, thus nearly converging to the fertility levels by then typical of the

developed world.

 

The median age, that is, the age that divides the population in two halves of equal size, is

an indicator of population ageing. Globally, the median age is projected to increase from

29 to 38 years between 2009 and 2050. Europe has today the oldest population, with a

median age of nearly 40 years, which is expected to reach 47 years in 2050.

 

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wpp2008/pressrelease.pdf

 

According to this latest Revision of the United Nations World Population Prospects, by 2050 the average global fertility is expected to drop below the rate of 2.1 child per woman, which is necessary to replace the world population. So, it is expected that the world population will actually begin to decrease after 2050. In terms of sustainability, population ageing will be a much bigger problem in the near future than population growth. Worldwide, there will not be enough young people to work, produce and pay for food, pensions and medical facilities for the old in a rapidly aging population.

 

Thus, with the world GDP decreasing as a result of ageing, future sustainability of the world population may not be so much an environmental issue, as an economical and moral or ethical issue. In this respect, the current state of the world economy doesn’t help. And as far as ethics are concerned, I’m afraid humanity doesn’t have a good reputation. Nevertheless, it seems that this problem must be solved through worldwide political, economical and social reforms. Otherwise, for millions of people, especially in less developed countries, nature will solve it the hard way..

[OmHari]

Being VEGETARIAN is a big step forward to do anything positive about our environment. Vaishnavas are vegetarians

[OmHari]

Also its known that factory farming and brutal killing of animals is doing no good to our planet, and what we eat DOES affect us and our relationship mother Earth and being vegetarian alone, can bring down many environmental issues that we are facing today.

 

MANY positive changes can be brought about by simply switching to being Vegetarian. Not only it benefits personally(our health and wellbeing) but also to our environment as a whole..

 

Destroying our forests for ranching ,fishing industry slowly killing off the oceans, is also not just about the land use & supply issue, raising of animals for food contributes also to various diseases, which lead to "health care" pharma industries booming up, a lot of resources used up on that..

We have (healthier, environmental) choice and that is to be a VEGETARIAN

[theist]

Basically humans are on earth to be caretakers of this part of God's estate called Earth. Caretakers is what is really meant by the Bible where it says God gave man dominion over the earth. The christians take it to me we can do whatever we want with the place and it's inhabitants but that misunderstanding is due to their foolishness only.

 

It's like a rich man leaving trusted caretakers to watch over his estate while he is away. He expects them to keep the house clean and in good repair and to see that the animals are properly cared for and protected, and that the grounds and gardens are tended nicely.

 

Because the world is run by atheists and so-called theists who care nothing for the service of God that the world is now in the shape it's in.

 

Sound ecology should be centered on the truth that we are God's servant and we need to act accordingly.

 

Here is a video that I know Om Hari will especially enjoy.

 

http://www.nonviolenceunited.org/veganvideo.html

[gHari]

It isn't numbers. Consider all the people in India and China. It is the passionate out-of-control Western frenzy that has ruined the planet without a care. It's the big machine that's eating the planet.

 

The mantra "More more now now" has to be replaced. We need to work 20 hour weeks, create half as much, consume half as much .... get sane.

[primate]

In Theist's video it is stated that, because raising animals for food takes so much land, water and other resources, the Earth is able to sustain only about 2 billion people on a meat and dairy based diet. Vegetarian foot products on the other hand, require only a fraction of the land and far fewer resources than required to produce animal products with equal total nutritious value. Thus, the fewer animal products we consume, the more people we can feed. Furthermore, the enormous amount of faeces produced by farm animals worldwide, pollutes farmland and surface water and is currently responsible for 40% more greenhouse gas in the atmosphere than produced by all cars, trucks and airplanes in the world together..!

[OmHari]

Interesting link , I have always been a vegetarian and I think if we can live on plant based diet, and be vegetarians, why choose the other way ?

[AncientMariner]

 

It isn't numbers. Consider all the people in India and China. It is the passionate out-of-control Western frenzy that has ruined the planet without a care. It's the big machine that's eating the planet.

 

The mantra "More more now now" has to be replaced. We need to work 20 hour weeks, create half as much, consume half as much .... get sane.

 

 

Would be nice to see America become a simple nation but it looks like the corporate controlled government of the bankers is gonna try to keep the charade going as long as they possibly can and milk America for all she is worth but after ahwile I think it is possible that people serving corporate America and the military industrial complex will get worn out with being slaves of this tyranny and they will yearn for a simpler life of less consumption.

[OmHari]

 

It isn't numbers. Consider all the people in India and China. It is the passionate out-of-control Western frenzy that has ruined the planet without a care. It's the big machine that's eating the planet.

 

The mantra "More more now now" has to be replaced. We need to work 20 hour weeks, create half as much, consume half as much .... get sane.

 

Am I the only one who understands this, and would love to imagine if people would stop running all their lives for more and more...Yes, we need to work less, spend less and live more....

[theist]

No you are not the only one to understand the need for simple living and high thinking. Unfortunately the numbers of those that understand this are too few. it's hard to be simple in a society based on sense gratification.

[bhaktajan]

Here's the obsticle I see:

 

[Ancientmariner should find this provocative]

 

GOLD AS THE STANDARD FOR CURRENCY IS INACCURATE

If my weekly labor earns me € 669 per week or $ 942 per week --then I've earned a HALF-OUNCE OF GOLD.

 

Therein is the problem --GOLD is HEAVY METAL. I don't need to equate my blood, sweat & toil all for a 1/2 ounce [14 grams] of "smelted geological ore deposits" --I'd perfer a retirement plan & modern shelter & first rate education & medical coverage & affordable prime foodstuffs

 

---but nooooooooooooooooo, we better eat our pudding made of "smelted geological ore deposits" [...better than mud cookies in Haiti...].

 

Remember to count your blessings and guard your Gold deposits.

 

If the denizens of mars painted their homes with gold-plating ---we'd simply steel all of it --just to get the chicks.

 

.....................

Ok I vented my anger a bit ...

 

There must be a "RE-VALUATION of Labor" as the standard of currency.

 

For example,

If Home, Food, Shelter, Transpotation, medicine, entertainment, school fees, & Bank loans

total ie: 50,000/year ---I'll abbreviate this as the 'HFSTMESBLS per Person Ratio''---

then the "Standard-of-living" arithmatic should be based on this the 'HFSTMESBLS per Person Ratio'.

 

Thus, the weekly "Labor(ious) Output by a Man/Woman" would be equated to "How Quickly" & "How Newly Updated" the wage-earners "Personal Acqusitions [anarthas]" would be.

 

35 Hour work week = a percentage of the 'HFSTMESBLS per Person Ratio' versus Casino Rules of logistics of win or lose average.

 

I am not speaking of socialistic economics --I am NOT talking about the status quo of: "anti-quality-of-life-standards-for-all-except-those-who-can-pay-with-earning-made-off-the-underclasses".

 

Modern society boasts of technology & 'Free Public-Schooling' but cannot arrange for the rule of "basic neccesities for all" AS THE BASIS OF MONETARY CURRENCY [aka Earned-Work-Units - EWUs].

 

That is why University Grads are unemployed by a Market that is NOT set up to do humanitarian work as its prime Creed, rather it's, 'to the victor goes the spoils'.

 

 

The Today's Current Price of Gold is:

 

Euro € 669 per ounce [1/2 ounce = € 335]

 

USD $ 942 per ounce [1/2 ounce = $ 942]

[melvin]

The most ideal environment suitable for Krsna consciousness in Asia is the Philippine`s 7200 islands. Many of these uncharted ones have white sandy beaches, caves, hidden lagoons and a few nipa huts constructed under coconut trees. You`ll find the island`s interior are planted with fruit trees, bananas, corn, etc. Besides being surrounded with bountiful and rich marine life, there are brown colored native girls on the islands who are hardworking and very much willing to serve their Masters as wives.

[OmHari]

Yes, atleast I am not alone on this one...

About AncientMariner's points, and his question for vaishnav society view , I would say a few things here:

 

If the society were to go Vaishnav, it would GREATLY benefit the society.And yes, that would be great to environment and also to us personally. You want to know why?

 

Because vaishnavs are

 

1. Vegetarian.

 

-Health care costs reduced

-No factory farming of animals

-No animals hunted to the point of extinction

-Stop to cruelty and more of compassionate living.

 

2. Controlling urges for *ex

 

-No need for artificial plastics, pills, etc for contraception because in vaishnav society, union is meant only for making children, having family, and not for personal pleasure.

-No "unwanted" babies, all children within wedlock

-So more social protection in society for the children.

 

3. Less materialistic

 

-Earning is mainly to run the household and provide food for guests,etc

Vegetarian food is distributed to those who are needy for free.

-Not accumulating weath for personal benefits, only accumulating as much requred to run the household.

 

4. Not drinking

5. Not smoking

So imagine a world where all are vaishnavs, that is, nobody smokes or consumes alcohol, how positively it would affect our social environment!

[theist]

Yes earth would become heaven or more.

[melvin]

Electricity before it was discovered by Benjamin Franklin in the form of fossil fuel ( un-utilized energy) lay dormant underneath the earth`s crust. Until man discovered locomotives and machines to ran factories that he started to siphon-off this un-utilized energy( oil) from the earth. Slowly as the years went by, the products of combustion ( carbon monoxide, toxic fumes, etc.) from utilizing this energy, accumulated from minimal concentrations to an unprecendented volumes in the earth`s atmosphere which depleted her ozone layer that protects man from being bombarded with radiation in outer space. The result is acid rain and rise in the incidence of skin cancer. Geographically, you will know which part of the world has the most number of such cases. It`s up north and down south, places where people experience winter. Simply because they need so much more of this fossil fuel to run their home`s heaters, etc. People from the trophics are luckier for they get to experience only two seasons, summer and rainy. In other words, Vaishnavas all over the world should advocate a No Fossil Fuel Utilizing Zone using instead a Nuclear Energy Zone to power electricity generating factories and plants. That automobiles, trains, ships and airplanes should run only on Solar Energy and Batteries. If the Vaishnavas all over the world can do it, then they are ahead three steps in saving earth from Doomsday scenarios painted by Nostradamus et al. It`s trivia if one says the people of the world should follow the Vaishnava way. That`s wishful thinking.

[theist]

Our outer world is a reflection of our inner world. No outer world solution is possible without an inner change of world view.

 

Here is the worldview that will change the world.

 

 

TRANSLATION Sri Isopanishad mantra 1

 

 

Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong.

 

 

No one person (the Capitalist dream) or the populace as a whole (the false oneness of communism) can solve our problem.

 

It all belongs to the Lord.

[Sonic Yogi]

For the uninitiated, I will let you in on the secret. See, the topic came up here because it is a recent topic on the new Website associated with Tripurari Maharaja.

AncientMariner is a member there and he has thus brought the topic here because it seems that the theme of Environmentalism has become somewhat of a preaching angle there with the camp of T Swami.

 

The Website is http://www.harmonist.us .

I found out about it because Babhru prabhu submitted an article to chakra announcing the new website.

 

Personally, I think that we don't really need to particularly cater to environmentalists in Hare Krishna preaching schemes, because environmentalism is already included in an authentic Vaishnava culture, of which the KC movement does not practice inasmuch as most all the devotees of the KC movement are just as habituated to the use of fossil fuels and environmental pollution as the rest of modern society.

 

Ideally, it would be nice if the Hare Krishna movement was about living simply, farming, protecting cows and fostering brahminical culture etc. etc., but in fact the leaders of ISKCON in their ambitions for personal position as career gurus and sannyasis have lead ISKCON into the same dependence on modern inventions as secular, mundane society is habituated to.

 

The Amish and the Mennonites are actually the best example of what the Hare Krishna movement should be promoting.

Unfortunately, under the excuse of "preaching" the Hare Krishna movement is in fact just as addicted and habituated to all these artificial modern ammenities as the rest of the world.

 

In his last days, Srila Prabhupada was putting more and more emphasis on the so-called "varanashrama" concept, which basically boils down to developing farm villages all around the world so that the KC movement could show a good example to the world of how human society should live and practice a spiritual culture.

 

However, the ambitious leaders of ISKCON were only concerned about their comfortable and cozy positions in ISKCON and didn't give a damn about teaching human society about agrarian based society and spiritual culture.

 

This is truly one of the biggest failures of ISKCON, which was a result of personal ambition getting in the way of ISKCON's great mission.

[theist]

In my little world I do not concern myself any longer with movements of anysize or power. I am only concerned with individuals and of course beginning with myself.

 

Each individual must be diligent to rid themselves of all vestiges of the sense of being the primary owner and enjoyer of what they perceive.

 

At this point in earth history I don't expect suddenly the world will take the example of the hare krishna's and 'puff' like magic all the world's problems will be solved. Ain't gonna happen.

 

However those that set the example that no one may follow have their reward already simply because they have pleased Krishna by their attempt. Real success is not measured in terms of temples constructed, books written and sold as desirable and wonderful as these accomplishments may be. Real success is pleasing Krishna and that is only by loving Him.

 

A beginning step in learning to love Him is giving up the false conception of ownership.

[melvin]

 

Our outer world is a reflection of our inner world. No outer world solution is possible without an inner change of world view.

 

Here is the worldview that will change the world.

 

 

 

No one person (the Capitalist dream) or the populace as a whole (the false oneness of communism) can solve our problem.

 

It all belongs to the Lord.

 

 

If only His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Maharaj lived a year more. He would have chosen a successor that would have taken the lead greening planet earth with love of God. Oh well, better move on than wallowing in the past. While it`s true that this world belongs to God but He is Spirit whereas His servants( managers) being marginal should learn to accept the responsibility of failure for the mess. We should not blame Capitalism for making a disaster of earth`s environment because ultimately the command responsibilty falls on every lap of Vaishnavas tasked to carry out what God has planned. Now, there`s no assurance anymore it will work. The blue prints are hidden in Prabhupad`s books copied and distributed like they were pirated CDs and DVDs reaching even as far as Communist China, Iran and North Korea.