Sb 11.08.10

[bhaktajan]

Sonic: Chanting the names of God is not part of Christianity!

Raghu: "No it is not"!

........................................

Could you tell that to a Baptist Minister, without seeming demonic?

 

There is a lot to God's mercy other than Full-All-Out-Transcendant-Samadhi-minded-other-worldliness --like his Name, fame, form, personality, paraphenelia, entourage & pastimes . . .

 

'. . . I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself . . . '

 

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Sonic: "In the Hebrew religion originally the "hallowed be thy name" concept"

 

Hey wait a minute! Didn't you post stuff about being around early in the movement and doing book distribution etc? And here you are quoting "The Lord's Prayer" --and you assign authorship to the Hebrews.

 

A Holyman says, "Oh God . . . hallowed be thy name" and you interpret it as something other than "hallowed be thy name" ---because your neighbors don't spend time contemplating your Internet Posts?

 

A reminder: 'Do not discourage the ignorant ... but encourage them in devotional service'

[theist]

 

Show me the references and let's look at them.

If the "Holy Name" you are referring to is some imagined Hebrew god whose name is not any name mentioned in any Vedic text, then I would have to say that such a call to calling on the name of the god would not qualify as a genuine reference to the yuga-dharma.

And since the vedas are written n sanskrit and the Bible in hebrew why would the names appear to be the same?

 

What a joke. Now I remember why you were placed on my ignore list where you will remain.

 

The thing is this Sonic yogic aka Ksama claims to be an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada but at the same time he rejects his guru's statements on the issue.

[raghu]

 

Sonic: Chanting the names of God is not part of Christianity!

Raghu: "No it is not"!

........................................

Could you tell that to a Baptist Minister, without seeming demonic?

 

Well given the fact that I am not a Christian, the Baptist minister will already be convinced that I am going to hell. So the answer is no.

 

But anyway, the point remains that repetitive chanting of the Christian God's names is not a feature of Christianity as we know it today.

[bhaktajan]

"The minister will already be convinced that I am going to hell."

 

But, if the Minister got the idea that you'd listen I'm sure he'd accept your tithing.

[bhaktajan]

Well, I just got back from the Vatican, where I told Il Papa about your posts and he was very enlivened and said, "Raghu's posts shall bring more people to the Church"

 

So here's the Scheme/Plot/Business Plan/Attack Strategy/Modus Operendi/Opening Chorus:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosary

 

The Rosary (from Latin rosarium, meaning "rose garden"[1] or "garland of roses"[2]) is a popular and traditional Roman Catholic devotion. The term denotes both a set of prayer beads and the devotional prayer itself, which combines vocal (or silent) prayer and meditation. The prayers consist of repeated sequences of the Lord's Prayer followed by ten prayings of the Hail Mary and a single praying of "Glory Be to the Father"; each of these sequences is known as a decade. The praying of each decade is accompanied by meditation on one of the Mysteries of the Rosary, which are events in the lives of Jesus Christ and his mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The traditional 15 Mysteries of the Rosary were finalized by the 16th century. The mysteries are grouped into three sets: the joyful mysteries, the sorrowful mysteries, and the glorious mysteries. In 2002, Pope John Paul II announced five new optional mysteries, the luminous mysteries, bringing the total number of mysteries to 20.

The term has come to be used to refer to similar beads in other religions.[3]

[theist]

It should be noted that the Bible when translated into English had the name Yahweh translated into Lord by the ignorance of the translators.

 

And it is the books themselves that started this discussion not the present day practices of the mass of people that call themselves Christians.

 

1 Praise the LORD. [a] Psalm 150

 

Praise God in his sanctuary;

praise him in his mighty heavens.

2 Praise him for his acts of power;

praise him for his surpassing greatness.

3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,

praise him with the harp and lyre,

4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,

praise him with the strings and flute,

5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,

praise him with resounding cymbals.

6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.

Praise the LORD.

 

This is called kirtan or bhajana, or congregational glorification of the Lord by those who speak English.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

It should be noted that the Bible when translated into English had the name Yahweh translated into Lord by the ignorance of the translators.

 

And it is the books themselves that started this discussion not the present day practices of the mass of people that call themselves Christians.

 

1 Praise the LORD. [a] Psalm 150

 

Praise God in his sanctuary;

praise him in his mighty heavens.

2 Praise him for his acts of power;

praise him for his surpassing greatness.

3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,

praise him with the harp and lyre,

4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,

praise him with the strings and flute,

5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,

praise him with resounding cymbals.

6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.

Praise the LORD.

 

This is called kirtan or bhajana, or congregational glorification of the Lord by those who speak English.

 

Nice.

However, anyone who has read the Old Testament knows for certain that the vengeful, wrathful god of the Hebrews as he was known in the Bible stories cannot in any way be Lord Vishnu or any form of Vishnu-tattva.

 

The god of favoritism to the Hebrews, known as Jews, cannot in any way be the actual supreme Lord Vishnu or Krishna.

We know from Vedic shastra that God does not play favorites based upon race, creed or color.

 

The god of the Bible, who said that the Jews were his specially chosen people who had the right to exterminate many other tribes and kingdoms including all the women and children, cannot possibly be Krishna or Vishnu.

 

Such a god could even possibly have been an asura or a powerful daitya.

He most certainly was not Krishna or Vishnu or even Siva, Brahma or Indra.

 

The god of the Bible was in fact a malevolent being who advocated the slaughter of innocent women and children for the purpose of making a homeland for his chosen Hebrew people.

 

So, the Bible idea of praising god Yahweh and calling upon him was in fact more than likely some form of asura worship that has over the centuries been confused with God worship.

 

Chanting the name of the asura that was considered God in the Bible will certainly benefit no one in the same manner that chanting the names of Vishnu or Krishna.

[bhaktajan]

"Chanting the name of the asura that was considered God in the Bible" ---I think I heard something like this said by Bhavananda in 1980. [And, please, I don't need to know where he is now]

 

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"Such a god could even possibly have been an asura or a powerful daitya.

He most certainly was not Krishna or Vishnu or even Siva, Brahma or Indra."

 

Why not? And where would such a big Asura get the prowess to do such dirty work --to what purpose? Chaos-into-Chaos?

 

'Kali-yuga is --as Kali-yuga does'.

 

and

 

'Life is like a box of --packing foam peanuts' --someone else is getting the nectar.

 

Looks like someone, "Cannot see the forest for the trees"**

 

[**Cannot perceive the overview or important things because of concentrating too much on details.]

[theist]

Only a foolish person would think all that is written in the old testament are the words of God (Yahweh). The Old Testament is mostly the words of the leaders of the Jews who imposed their own racial hatred and biases onto the people by claiming the ideas to have come from God.

 

You do know that the Bible or even the Old Testament is a collection of different books written by different authors or a wide span of time and they disagree among themselves even.

I do not accept the Bible as the word of God. I do accept the word of God can be found amongst the writings however.

 

The Lord understands the intent of person offering the prayer or chant. For instance there is no comparison between a mayavadi chanting the "holy names" and a pure Vaisnava chanting the same names.

 

But there is no hope of my persuading you since you reject the very same conclusion of Srila Prabhupada. Even Lord Caitanya accepted the Koran was speaking about the only God there is. The Koran speaks of the same God worshipped by Abraham as do the Hebrews.

 

Such small sectarian mindness as you display in this regard is shamefull for someone claiming to be a representative of Srila Prabhupada. At least be honest on this point that you are taking a position diametrically opposed to him ksamabuddhi.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Only a foolish person would think all that is written in the old testament are the words of God (Yahweh). The Old Testament is mostly the words of the leaders of the Jews who imposed their own racial hatred and biases onto the people by claiming the ideas to have come from God.

 

You do know that the Bible or even the Old Testament is a collection of different books written by different authors or a wide span of time and they disagree among themselves even.

I do not accept the Bible as the word of God. I do accept the word of God can be found amongst the writings however.

 

The Lord understands the intent of person offering the prayer or chant. For instance there is no comparison between a mayavadi chanting the "holy names" and a pure Vaisnava chanting the same names.

 

But there is no hope of my persuading you since you reject the very same conclusion of Srila Prabhupada. Even Lord Caitanya accepted the Koran was speaking about the only God there is. The Koran speaks of the same God worshipped by Abraham as do the Hebrews.

 

Such small sectarian mindness as you display in this regard is shamefull for someone claiming to be a representative of Srila Prabhupada. At least be honest on this point that you are taking a position diametrically opposed to him ksamabuddhi.

 

It 's very kind of you to be willing to refer to religious bigots who blaspheme Krishna as devotees of God.

 

However, I cannot accept that anyone who blasphemes Krishna and Srila Prabhupada is an authentic devotee of God.

 

The meat-eating blasphemers who are posing as devotees of God are simple asuras who blaspheme the real God.

 

Sorry, I don't accept anyone who blasphemes Krishna or the Vedic authority as devotees of god.

 

They might think they are devotees of god, but actually they are simply servants of their senses and nothing else.

[theist]

Which is worse, one who openly opposes the conclusion of krishna's devotee or the one who pretends to be a disciple of said devotee while openly and publically opposing his conclusions?

[theist]

Conversation with devotees on theology april 1 1975 Mayapur:

 

Prabhupāda: No, when we come to argument that... We are supposed to be all believers in God. We are not nonbelievers. We simply want to ascertain who is that God. We are not nonbelievers. Then some persons who believe in God come together so to ascertain who is God. So just like when we come to a meeting to elect a president, so they are not nonbelievers. They are not nonbelievers. As there are so many personalities, candidate for president, now who is the right person to become the president? That is wanted. To the nonbelievers, he has no access. About discussion in God he has no access. When we discuss about God, it is supposed they are all believers. So if you say... Just like we are holding meeting to ascertain... There are so many names of God. Now we ascertain who is real God. God means there should be no more above Him. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [bg. 7.7]. That is God.

 

 

Viṣṇujana: Christians have such a name. They call Him Yahweh.

 

Acyutānanda: Yahweh.

 

 

Viṣṇujana: Yahweh means "I am that I am. No one is beyond Me."

 

 

Acyutānanda: Yahweh.

 

 

Viṣṇujana: They will say Yahweh is God.

 

 

Prabhupāda: No, Yahweh, what is...? That is the name?

 

 

Viṣṇujana: Name. "I am that..." It means in English, "I am that I am."

 

 

Prajāpati: Some people translate that as Jehovah.

 

 

Viṣṇujana: Jehovah.

 

 

Prajāpati: But it's the same word. In fact, everyone agrees they do not know what the real name is. Some say Yahweh; some say Jehovah. The Jewish tradition replaces completely and says Adonai, instead.

 

 

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He may not say. But we have to take from the meaning. What is the meaning?

 

 

Viṣṇujana: "No one is beyond Me."

 

 

Prabhupāda: That's all right. "No one is beyond Me." Then he comes to our conclusion, all-attractive. This is... They come to our conclusion, all-attractive. Because if somebody is beyond Him, then he should be attractive. But if He's final attractive, then all-attractive, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. What do you think?

[sant]

 

Such small sectarian mindness as you display in this regard is shamefull for someone claiming to be a representative of Srila Prabhupada. At least be honest on this point that you are taking a position diametrically opposed to him ksamabuddhi.

 

COntd.

Words such as christ busters and i pass urine only show you down.You being such a high devotee why keep such cheap and Tamo guni thoughts.

WHy dont you ask yourself why you do it and accept that you are dong it only due to your enmity towards christians.Just becuse you reject someones philosophy doesnt mean you start talking ill about great beings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The meat-eating blasphemers who are posing as devotees of God are simple asuras who blaspheme the real God.

 

 

Eating meat doesnt make you evil.Even brahmans ate meat.

[Sonic Yogi]

I certainly don't consider Srila Prabhupada as any authority on what the Bible teaches.

Unlike some people, I don't accept everything that Srila Prabhupada says as some absolute, infallible proclamation.

 

I don't know why the followers of the Hebrew religions should be given any higher endorsement than any of the demigod worshipers of Ganesh, Indra, Brahma etc. etc.

 

The Bible religion worshiped some malevolent conception of god that was certainly much less than any of the Vedic demigods that have been so much taken to task by the Vaishnava acharyas.

 

Quoting Srila Prabhupada is not going to seal any absolute conclusion as far as I am concerned when it comes to the Bible and the Abrahamic religions, that in my opinion are much lower in theism than the worshipers of the Vedic demigods.

 

I don't accept Srila Prabhupada's statements about Christianity or the Bible to be absolute or infallible.

 

I have studied the Hebrew religions much more than he ever did, so I am not going to give up my own understanding just because "Prabhupada said".

[sant]

 

I certainly don't consider Srila Prabhupada as any authority on what the Bible teaches.

Unlike some people, I don't accept everything that Srila Prabhupada says as some absolute, infallible proclamation.

 

I don't know why the followers of the Hebrew religions should be given any higher endorsement than any of the demigod worshipers of Ganesh, Indra, Brahma etc. etc.

 

The Bible religion worshiped some malevolent conception of god that was certainly much less than any of the Vedic demigods that have been so much taken to task by the Vaishnava acharyas.

 

Quoting Srila Prabhupada is not going to seal any absolute conclusion as far as I am concerned when it comes to the Bible and the Abrahamic religions, that in my opinion are much lower in theism than the worshipers of the Vedic demigods.

 

I don't accept Srila Prabhupada's statements about Christianity or the Bible to be absolute or infallible.

 

I have studied the Hebrew religions much more than he ever did, so I am not going to give up my own understanding just because "Prabhupada said".

 

 

 

Youve just ignored the greatness of christ even after reading the bible.

You dont get the point even if you dont accept why are you keeping such dirty feelings in your heart against christ.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Youve just ignored the greatness of christ even after reading the bible.

You dont get the point even if you dont accept why are you keeping such dirty feelings in your heart against christ.

Christ was a myth.

There were many great mythic gods 2000 years ago.

Anyone who does a serious study of the history of Christianity will inevitably realize that Christ was a myth manufactured in Rome by people who didn't even know how to read or speak Hebrew.

 

The Jews don't believe in Jesus.

Are you saying that the people who were around before the so-called Jesus and after the so-called Jesus, don't know anything about the subject?

 

To accept Jesus is to deny the Jews, so you are just favoring one sect over the other.

I don't accept either the Jews or the Christians.

I don't accept that either cult actually had any real concept of the true God.

 

I favor the American Indians who worshiped natural wonders, Earth and Eagles more than the environmental exploiters that pass themselves off as Christians.

 

Christians refer to Native Americans as heathens.

I personally think the Native Americans were a lot more spiritual than the fake religionists that call themselves Christians.

 

Maybe being part Cherokee has something to do with it.

I think the American Indians were a lot greater people than the Christians who came and slaughtered them to take their land.

[sant]

The bhavishya purana mentions christians as worshippers of vishnu but i dont think anyone will accept it as authentic.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

The bhavishya purana mentions christians as worshippers of vishnu but i dont think anyone will accept it as authentic.

 

That is a false interpolation.

Indologists have rejected the claims that the references in the Bhavisya Purana refer to Christians.

 

That false propaganda was fabricated by Christian mlecchas who were out to convert Hindus to their idiotic religion.

 

Hindu scholars reject such Christian lies.

[sant]

 

Christ was a myth.

There were many great mythic gods 2000 years ago.

Anyone who does a serious study of the history of Christianity will inevitably realize that Christ was a myth manufactured in Rome by people

Do you know that the whole dating process in history is based on christ's birth and death.

There are no remains of krishna just like christ (or are there?).And do you know there are more christians than hindus.Now how about that.

[sant]

Can you prove christ doesnt exist more than that you can prove krishna exists.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Can you prove christ doesnt exist more than that you can prove krishna exists.

I have a whole website dedicate to educating people on the subject, but you have obviously refused to take advantage of it, open your mind and listen to what some of the best academic theologians in the world have said on the matter.

 

www.christbusters.com

[sant]

That reminds me of a guy who worte a book criticising mother teressa.Anyway goodnight ill look into it tomorrow.

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Can you prove christ doesnt exist more than that you can prove krishna exists.

I have never said anything about proving Krishna existed.

 

I am not out to prove that Krishna existed.

Nowadays, the people who actually make the strongest arguments against a historical Jesus are academic theologians with the greatest knowledge and expertise on the subject.

They are not blind faith evangelicals that buy into some propaganda being made by bigoted fanatics who claim Jesus is the only way to salvation.

[stonehearted]

 

I have a whole website dedicate to educating people on the subject, but you have obviously refused to take advantage of it, open your mind and listen to what some of the best academic theologians in the world have said on the matter.

 

www.christbusters.com

Sparky, you scamp! You just can't keep your hands in your pockets, can you?

[theist]

The guy is toxic.