kshama Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Respected Members of the forum, Nowadays there are lots of confusions arising from our ignorance of the basic fundamentals of any religion that we are following. I am no different too. My question is, what is the difference between bakthi and blind faith? Secondly, how to make bhakti pure without shadows of blind faith in it? Namaste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaisersose Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Can you define "Blind Faith" and "Faith"? A lot depends on your understanding of these two. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Nice question. This can be approached from numerous angles. Here is one. Blind faith is blind because it has no knowledge with which to see. Pure bhakti on the other hand has transcendental knowledge as it's basic platform for action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshama Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Respected Members, This is the response to the question by Kaisersose Ji. In my opinion, bhakti is the intense love to god. How do I define blind faith....hmm well I put it as a state where, a person is having faith in something without fully understanding the object that he or she has faith to. Faith for me is to believe confidently and whole-heartedly about a set of principles, tenets of religion, god etc. I might perceive the concept (bahkti and blind faith) differently from the learned ones that is why I asked the members. I do find, in both cases, i.e. bhakti or blind faith, the individual is never bothered about his/her actions because the immense conviction and confidence towards the the faith he or she has. Sometimes there is a negative impact too, if one is not careful. I wish some one can enlighten me on this two terms. Theist Ji, thanks for your input, it does make me think in another perspective. Thank you to Kaisersose Ji too. Thank you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 As an aside, i must remark on your change of tone Ksamabuddhi. I greatly respect your endeavor having been on the same one myself. I have been consciously trying for several years now and am having great difficulty. You on the other hand have been setting a good example right off. Bravo bro.! Now back to topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindustani Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Bhakti=I am worshiping God and pray him. Blind Faith=He is going to listen to my prayers and that is 100% No difference if both attached with each other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshama Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 HindustanI Ji, Yes the meaning that you gave does differentiate the terms well. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Name the Goal and then name the degree of Preparation required --and then the quantity of real-world experience . . . then "Correct Faith" (or "Partial Faith", or "False Faith") transforms itself into "Conviction with its appropriate Code-of-Conduct". Blind faith is the starting point in acquiring any expert knowledge --later it matures . . . until a person is expected to Charitably-Share-the-Benefit-of-One's own-Knowledge-with-others. MAybe the idea is What is the difference between "Cheating, white lies, self-interest vs Bhakti-Yoga disciplines". The path of salvation from (SAMSARA) fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord (via a bonefide representative). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Name the Goal and then name the degree of Preparation required --and then the quantity of real-world experience . . . then "Correct Faith" (or "Partial Faith", or "False Faith") transforms itself into "Conviction with its appropriate Code-of-Conduct". Blind faith is the starting point in acquiring any expert knowledge --later it matures . . . until a person is expected to Charitably-Share-the-Benefit-of-One's own-Knowledge-with-others. MAybe the idea is What is the difference between "Cheating, white lies, self-interest vs Bhakti-Yoga disciplines". The path of salvation from (SAMSARA) fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord (via a bonefide representative). Faith is blind, per definition.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshama Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Bhaktajan Ji, Thank you for your input. It makes me think a bit clearer. I have a question for you and all members here. How to make our bhakti to god untainted by blind faith? It is very hard as there is no yardstick to measure bhakti or any other metaphysical endeavours as well as there is no devices to detect blind faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 This goes back to my previous reply. Blind faith means no knowledge as knowledge equals vision. So to make blind faith into sighted faith it takes the acquisition of transcendental knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 "Faith is blind, per definition.." Yeah But, No But, Yeah But, No But . . . the starting point in acquiring any knowledge is Blind-faith. Only after gaining education, insight, savvy & 'street-smarts' ---then one slowly rises to the level of independent thinking. Next time you alit upon an aircraft ---check your faith in the overhead compartment and buckle that seat belt and "enjoy" the view ---your aeronautical engineering Diploma will transform into real 'fox-hole' faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 "Faith is blind" is a poetic construct. "Faith is reliance on others to have done their duty faithfully." Ie: I have blind faith that the Office-Building will stand without collapse . . . because the Professional builders were overseen & inforced by Government regulations. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Q. How to make our bhakti to god untainted by blind faith? A. The principles of a) knowledge and b) detachment gained from . . . "Knowledge & detachment" is a very deep & heavy topic! "Before enlightenment chop wood and carry water--- After enlightenment chop wood and carry water." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pradeepkumar.meerut@gmail.com Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Respected all seniors I am just giving my views if You find me wrong anywhere please let me know so that I can understand that. I think That bhakti comes from blind faith, because the base of bhakti is love for god and when we love anyone seriously, blind faith for him generates automatically. like a mother loves her kid blindly she never sees any fault in him if anyone complains to her about her kid she never accepts that her kid was on mistake even if any situation she accepts from outside but from inside she never accepts. same happens when a boy loves a girl or a girl loves a boy , they dont use their mind in judging what is right or what is wrong that's why people say love is blind. so bhakti=love love =blind faith so bhakti=blind faith thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 There is a yardstick to measure bhakti or any other metaphysical endeavours: "The Human Condition & the Experience of Man(kind)" --we are all really biological beasts doing 4 activities [yet our ego manaically lumps it into an "I did it My Way" ethos] ---all our everyday mundane acts ARE a testiment to the metaphysical World ---and how we are stuck-in-it up to our entire existence. The metaphysical and mystic and awesome & dumbfounding events happening with no insight knowledge by the onlooker. We must receive a sastris injunction and then purposely apply it and view its reactions & contrasting qualities. "We learn by the carrot or the stick." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 "Faith is blind" is a poetic construct. "Faith is reliance on others to have done their duty faithfully." Ie: I have blind faith that the Office-Building will stand without collapse . . . because the Professional builders were overseen & inforced by Government regulations. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Q. How to make our bhakti to god untainted by blind faith? A. The principles of a) knowledge and b) detachment gained from . . . "Knowledge & detachment" is a very deep & heavy topic! "Before enlightenment chop wood and carry water--- After enlightenment chop wood and carry water." It's big, it's heavy, it's wood.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshama Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Respected Members, I am amazed how diverse bhakti and blind faith can be when hearing the explanations by Theist Ji, Bhaktajan Ji, Hindustani Ji and many more others. It reflects that I still have lots to learn to be in your levels. It paves me way to introspect myself. Thank you again all. May god bless you and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindustani Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Another example Bhakti=Meera Blind Faith=Mere to Girdhar Gopal,Dusro no koi. HindustanI Ji, Yes the meaning that you gave does differentiate the terms well. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raghu Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Respected Members, This is the response to the question by Kaisersose Ji. In my opinion, bhakti is the intense love to god. How do I define blind faith....hmm well I put it as a state where, a person is having faith in something without fully understanding the object that he or she has faith to. Faith for me is to believe confidently and whole-heartedly about a set of principles, tenets of religion, god etc. This definition of "faith" is not acceptable, because by such definition, all bhaktas would be guilty of blind faith, since no one can *fully* understand the Lord. The infinite concept will simply not fit in one's finite mind. However, one can *begin* to understand Him based on knowledge from valid pramAnas. Whatever one may understand may be limited, but if the knowlege is valid one can accept it as true. Now as far as what is pramAna, this is the distinguishing feature between conviction/mature faith/faith guided by a higher authority and irrational faith. Case in point - "Krishna is the author of the Vedas." This is a Hare Krishna belief, and people like Theist, Sonic Yogi, sant, and ranjeetmore would readily agree to it. Now, how do you know that Krishna is God? They would answer "because it is in the Vedas." Now behold the circular logic - Krishna is the author of the Vedas, and we know Krishna is God because the Vedas say so. Objectively, one can appreciate the problems behind that logic. But the Hare Krishnas do not appreciate the problem, and in fact will become quite hostile if you point it out. This is an example of blind and irrational faith. The truth of the matter is that real bhakti and blind faith have nothing to do with each other. What passes for bhakti in the condescending imagination of atheistic Neo-Hindus or the soap-box style preaching of self-proclaimed Hare Krishnas on this forum has little to do with bhakti. Bhakti is guided by proper knowledge. To the extent that one has the qualification one has got to study the Vedas under a guru's guidance. And if he does not have the qualification, he should at least hear the knowledge from a guru knowledgeable in the Vedas. Most of the noisy proponents of Krishna worship on this forum are not even initiated by such a guru. The reformatory process of studying the subject matter of God, the souls, matter etc under the guidance of a guru cleanses one of the impurities that lead to the problems you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshama Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Respected Raghuji. Thank you for your thoughts. So far all the reply posts made me think deep about bhakti and blind faith. Whatever they are, whomever they be, they all indirectly impart valueable knowledge in the spirituality field. I have nothing but respect and gratitude to you and all the members of the forum for making me understand complex and substantial issues. Namaste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 My question is, what is the difference between bakthi and blind faith? Secondly, how to make bhakti pure without shadows of blind faith in it? Namaste. Ask a person why he is following a certain (religious) ritual. IF he says that someone have taught him to do such ritual (as means of Spiritualism), then he has blind faith. IF he says it makes him happy, then he has Bhakti in his heart. The difference between Bhakti and Blind Faith is in each person's heart. IF a person is happy with how he performs his Spiritual practise, he is Faithful. IF he cannot find happiness and merely following the masses, he is blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshama Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 As a person why he is following a certain (religious) ritual. IF he says that someone have taught him to do such ritual (as means of Spiritualism), then he has blind faith. IF he says it makes him happy, then he has Bhakti in his heart. The difference between Bhakti and Blind Faith is in each person's heart. IF a person is happy with how he performs his Spiritual practise, he is Faithful. IF he cannot find happiness and merely following the masses, he is blind. Sephiroth Ji, Yes, what you said above is so true. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishivatsyan Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Bhakti is devotation toward god Blind faith is my god is superior else are stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Sephiroth Ji, Yes, what you said above is so true. Thanks. When a person has Bhakti (Faith) in his Heart, he is close to God. And the closer you are to God, the happier, more calm and peaceful you are with the World. You will not fight the World, but live in it peacefully, waiting patiently for your time here to be over and that you may return back to your Beloved God. A person who is blind will always have suffering in his heart, always paranoid that someone is after him (and his faith) and could never find peace. Such person does not have Bhakti, but merely following the masses blindly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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