sant Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Congratulations, Sant! You`re now a senior member( 1004 posts). Thank you.I m a young boy though young enough to be your son i guess.So its awkward for you to call me senior. Yes, I`ve read it just now. My perplexity is not whether Krsna is the basis of Brahman, personal or otherwise. What I want to find out why as pure living soul our constitutional position is that of eternal servant of Krsna when we , after all, are His parts and parcels. Why should we not instead serve ourselves after knowing we are no different from Krsna? Just because Krsna is bigger and we are smaller? When Krsna incarnated in the form of Lord Caitanya he took the role of a mendicant and servant of Krsna. I have less knowledge but because as prabhupada says serving krishna gets us bliss. Not all people beleive that soul is an eternal servant of vishnu. But even those who have achieved moksha come to do bhakti of krishna . Jagadg guruu also says that premanad of krishna is higher than brahmanada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Our constitutional position is to serve Krishna, it is our natural position and the whole Spiritual World is based on this principle. The Supreme Personality of Godhead (Vishnu tattva) and the Supreme Personality of Servitor Godhead( jiva tattva). If you want to serve yourself directly then you end up in the material plane. Has it worked yet for us? The basic example Prabhupada gives is that the hand is meant to serve the body as a whole by supplying food to the stomach. The food is then distributed throughout the body as a whole and the hand receives it's nourishment. If the hand tries to eat the food itself without giving it to the stomach it will starve. We ask ourselves, "Why should I serve Krishna?". Why not ask, "Why should I not serve Krishna?". Does anyone have a good reason why they should not serve Krishna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 It`s because when we glorify Krsna, we are glorifying Him who is present within us as the Supersoul. When we serve Krsna by offering ourselves a leaf, water, grain and flower, God accepts them as the Supersoul-recipient of the said items offered to Him. (This maybe applicable only if Guru or Krsna`s Deity isn`t present before us.) That`s why we always say a thanks giving prayer to God before we eat the food and drink the water being served to us on the dining table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Theist i have a question. Lord krishna says in the gita that nature of soul is of the self.That gives an advaitin view, does it.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted July 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 ... Lord krishna says in the gita that nature of soul is of the self.That gives an advaitin view, does it.? No. There is a difference between the higher self (the soul) and the lower self (the ego), which are each other’s 'enemies'.. Essays on the Gita - Google Books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted July 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Brahman is Nothingness/Zero/Void/Absolute Vacuum ---anything beyond this understanding is simply transcendental knowledge only available by Vishnu Avataras [Yes, I know, we already possess this]. "Location, Location, Location" ---not, 'Jiva, Jiva & more Jivas'. In the beginning there was the void & the waters stirred below . . . ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: All varieties of MATERIAL manifestations occupy its own space in the vast empty MATERIAL sky [aka brahman]. BTW, yes, Krishna is the source/resting place/personification/refuge/mystery of 'Brahman'/the fountainhead reservior & emitter of the Original 'Light' {brahmajyoti that we preceive only within the confines/refracturing prism/filterings of the MATERIAL sky & our material senses}. So, the basis of Brahman is "transcendental knowledge only available by Vishnu Avataras". Then how can it be said, that "Krishna is the (knowable) basis of Brahman"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Krsna(Supreme Spirit) is the basis(knowable) of Brahman (spirit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Thank you.I m a young boy though young enough to be your son i guess.So its awkward for you to call me senior. The way I see it, Sant. You`re one who likes to speedily grow old. In just 4 months, you have reached the 1000 mark. In 1 year time, you will reach the 3000 mark. In 8 years, you will surpass Theist`s number of posts. Take a look at me. In more than 8 years, I still haven`t reached the 1000 mark. The reason maybe is that I really don`t want to grow older. I have less knowledge but because as prabhupada says serving krishna gets us bliss. Not all people beleive that soul is an eternal servant of vishnu. But even those who have achieved moksha come to do bhakti of krishna . Jagadg guruu also says that premanad of krishna is higher than brahmanada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 It`s because when we glorify Krsna, we are glorifying Him who is present within us as the Supersoul. When we serve Krsna by offering ourselves a leaf, water, grain and flower, God accepts them as the Supersoul-recipient of the said items offered to Him. (This maybe applicable only if Guru or Krsna`s Deity isn`t present before us.) That`s why we always say a thanks giving prayer to God before we eat the food and drink the water being served to us on the dining table. Melvin this is crazy talk.. When you are offering something to Krishna you are offering it to Krishna. You are the offerer and Krishna is the receipient of the offering. Krishna is a person, one with and separate from your self. Bhaktivinode said that in one and difference the difference is more prominent. See it like 49% and 51%. Krishna says "in one sense I am everything, yet I am independent. We are servant Krishna and He is served Krishna. If you ae offering something and thinking that ultimately you are offering it to yourself then you are a mayavadi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Theist i have a question.Lord krishna says in the gita that nature of soul is of the self.That gives an advaitin view, does it.? Depends on how you define soul and self. When I say soul or self I am meaning a sub-atomic infinitesimal part of Krishna. A photon compared to the Sun globe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Melvin this is crazy talk.. When you are offering something to Krishna you are offering it to Krishna. You are the offerer and Krishna is the receipient of the offering. Krishna is a person, one with and separate from your self. Bhaktivinode said that in one and difference the difference is more prominent. See it like 49% and 51%. Krishna says "in one sense I am everything, yet I am independent. We are servant Krishna and He is served Krishna. If you ae offering something and thinking that ultimately you are offering it to yourself then you are a mayavadi. Don`t you remember, Theist, my religion is Catholicism? That Christianity is mayavadism? Bhakti yoga is Vaishnavism when we put Krsna at the center of our hearts. But when we place Christ as the center of our worship then that`s mayavadism. But when we think that Krsna and Christ are simultaneously one and different then that is acintya-bheda-abheda if we believe Krsna is bigger than Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Don`t you remember, Theist, my religion is Catholicism? That Christianity is mayavadism? Bhakti yoga is Vaishnavism when we put Krsna at the center of our hearts. But when we place Christ as the center of our worship then that`s mayavadism. But when we think that Krsna and Christ are simultaneously one and different then that is acintya-bheda-abheda if we believe Krsna is bigger than Christ. Catholic or Protestant makes no difference. What is important is the teaching of Christ. Christ made it abundantly clear that He was/is/ and forever will be the servant of the Father. Jesus never taught that he was serving Himself and only pretending to be serving someone else. Lord Jesus Christ desired that we have a relationship with the Supreme person just as he has a relationship with the Supreme Person. Of course Christ is an Avatar of the Supreme Lord so to worship him is in that sense to worship God. BUT NO WHERE IN CHRISTS TEACHINGS IS IT TAUGHT THAT OFFERING SOMETHING TO GOD REALLY MEANS YOU ARE OFFERING IT TO YOURSELF. Christ is not the mayavadi. it is you who are misunderstanding the teaching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 BUT NO WHERE IN CHRISTS TEACHINGS IS IT TAUGHT THAT OFFERING SOMETHING TO GOD REALLY MEANS YOU ARE OFFERING IT TO YOURSELF. Christ is not the mayavadi. it is you who are misunderstanding the teaching Did I say that, Theist? What I said is that if I offer a leaf, flower, grain or water to God and I accepted it means the offering is not for myself but to the Superself within me. This is only applicable when you`re in the desert or island and there`s no nobody around but you. Where will you offer your food and drink to when you`re alone and don`t have God`s icon or deity with you? It`s mayavadism when I offer God meat and I accept it ( if it`s the only way to survive in the desert ). Or when I offer God fish and I accept it even if there are lots of coconut trees on the island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 You are really confusing me Melvin. It appears that you are changing the meaning of your previous postings when referring back to them. I can't continue with this one bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Yes, Theist. It`s best to stop this exchange of views when one can`t get a clearer picture presented by the other. Then we move on to another topic. There are so many important topics we haven`t yet touched and scratching the bottom is perhaps the least of our concerns. The easiest part I guess in a conversation is talking.The hardest part is when to stop and start listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 The easiest part I guess in a conversation is talking.The hardest part is when to stop and start listening. Yes so true! This is a great line Melvin. You could put this on a bumper sticker and make a million bucks. Right there with one I saw recently that said, "Don't believe everything that you think." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 The easiest part I guess in a conversation is talking.The hardest part is when to stop and start listening. So cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Yeah Amlesh it is. I need to somehow tattoo that over my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yeah Amlesh it is. I need to somehow tattoo that over my mouth. lolz.. good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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