About Food

[smaranam]

 

Dear Holy Child of Cebu,

 

I don`t know if you can forgive me.....

 

I have been a carnivore all my life.

No matter how I try, I can never detach myself from eating these tamasic foods. .......

 

They taught me that eating meat wasn`t a sin but what comes from the heart like lust, greed, murder, etc.

 

I may not be like my friends here who are vegetarians my Lord. Hope they can forgive me,too.

 

Yours truly,

 

Melvin

(www.basilicadelsantoninodecebu.org.ph)

 

No sir, its not like that.

 

You know a lot about Krshna from Srila Prabhupad's books and associaiting with his disciples.

So please correct me if i say anything wrong here :

 

The question is whether we have the desire to give up attachment to fish and meat. That's a spiritual desire of ahimsa, to please Krshna's senses. Then Krshna will respond. Only then the journey will begin. He will make the seemingly impossible possible. But if the desire is not there, or worse, the belief that its OK to eat meat , then He will leave the person alone to his/her karmic cycle and destiny.

 

You know better than to say that people can eat all the meat and ask Jesus to forgive. I know that's not what you are saying but many Christians do.

 

If Jesus wants Christians not to harbour the 6 enemies (anger lust greed jealousy ...) ,

Indulgence or attachment to fish or meat is

1. lust (kAm)

2. Participation in violence to other living beings in a fairly high order on the animal hierarchy.

 

By His Yogic power, Jesus attracted all the fish and liberated them. Then they became food for the crowd.

 

Jesus was God Conscious and knew the Self.

 

Whenever Bible says He ate fish or lamb, it was to please His fellowmen and stay within norms. His priority was to be accessible to the masses and Jesus and some of His disciples were austere and detached. THey held meetings around grapes and bread.

There seems to be a lot of hidden meaning in Jesus's parables.

 

His angry reaction outside the Jewish Temple. What was His message ? "You want to eat meat ? Just kill it and eat it. Don't do the pretend sacrifice rituals. They are of no use." He hated pretense and hypocrasy. He just showed that KRshna gives free will. That did not mean its the right way for individual soul's and living beings' welfare.

 

If you pray to Krshna to develop the desire to give up these attachments, He will help you.

 

But if anyone harbours desire for the fish and meat, Krshna is so kind He will make sure its on the menu.

 

SB 11.3.3: Śrī Antarīkṣa said: O mighty-armed King, by activating the material elements, the primeval Soul of all creation has sent forth all living beings in higher and lower species so that these conditioned souls can cultivate either sense gratification or ultimate liberation, according to their desire.

 

Purport : In the last para, Jiva Goswami comments on SB 10.82.7 in context of this verse -11.3.3.

"The Lord created the intelligence, senses, mind and vital air of the living beings for sense gratification, for performing sacrifices to attain higher births, and ultimately for offering sacrifices to the Supreme Soul." (SB10.82.7)

According to Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, the actual purpose of the Lord's creation is only one: to facilitate the advancement of devotional service to the Lord Himself. Although it is stated that the Lord facilitates sense gratification, it should be understood that the Supreme Personality of Godhead does not ultimately condone the foolishness of the conditioned souls. The Lord facilitates sense gratification (mātrā-prasiddhaye) so that the living entities will gradually understand the futility of trying to enjoy without Him. Every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedic literature the Lord gives a regulative program so that the living beings can gradually exhaust their tendencies to be foolish and learn the value of surrender unto Him. The Lord is undoubtedly the reservoir of all beauty, bliss and satisfaction, and it is the duty of every living entity to engage in the loving service of the Lord. Although there are apparently two purposes for creation, it should be understood that ultimately the purpose is one. The arrangement for sense gratification is ultimately meant to bring the living entities to the single purpose of going back home, back to Godhead.

 

 

-------------------

 

Once you are detached from these foods, Krshna might appoint you as the pioneer advocating vegetarianism in your community. To have the Chinese restaurant offer more vegetarian dishes. To bring veg recipes , started kits to homes. To assure them how veg diet can be complete.

 

"Vegetarian advocacy is a form of Christian stewardship and discipleship, because vegetarianism honors God by showing respect for God’s environment, animals, and humans. When our lives honor God, we feel closer to God and spiritually more fulfilled. So, encouraging people to try vegetarianism is offering a gift, for them as well as for the rest of Creation."

- Christian Vegetarian Association : Christianity and Vegetarianism - Christian Vegetarian Association

I wish you and your family all the best.

Pranam.

Hare Krshna

[chandu_69]

 

THey held meetings around grapes and bread.

It just occurred to me that the last supper was that of bread and not a bowl of meat.

[melvin]

 

No sir, its not like that.

 

You know a lot about Krshna from Srila Prabhupad's books and associaiting with his disciples.

So please correct me if i say anything wrong here :

 

My View: Prabhupada`s books were delievered to me even without asking. It just came after my childhood friend Gauransundara das lent me the books because he wanted to share them to me.

 

The question is whether we have the desire to give up attachment to fish and meat. That's a spiritual desire of ahimsa, to please Krshna's senses. Then Krshna will respond. Only then the journey will begin. He will make the seemingly impossible possible. But if the desire is not there, or worse, the belief that its OK to eat meat , then He will leave the person alone to his/her karmic cycle and destiny.

 

My View: My Catholic upbringing made me believe it`s not a sin to eat anything. What comes from the heart like lust and anger is a sin. Christ Jesus ate fish and drank wine.

 

You know better than to say that people can eat all the meat and ask Jesus to forgive. I know that's not what you are saying but many Christians do.

 

My View: Yes. I want Christ to forgive me for eating fish. I want Allah to forgive me for eating pork. I want you to forgive me for eating beef. May the plants and vegetables forgive you, too, for eating their fruits and leaves.

 

If Jesus wants Christians not to harbour the 6 enemies (anger lust greed jealousy ...) ,

Indulgence or attachment to fish or meat is

1. lust (kAm)

2. Participation in violence to other living beings in a fairly high order on the animal hierarchy.

 

My View: After having said from the above view. I might as well not eat anything. I`ll just drink milk and water to survive.

 

 

By His Yogic power, Jesus attracted all the fish and liberated them. Then they became food for the crowd.

 

My View: There`s a saying," practice what I preach but don`t follow what I do in private."

 

Jesus was God Conscious and knew the Self.

 

My View: If Jesus was Krsna conscious, he would not have drank wine.

 

Whenever Bible says He ate fish or lamb, it was to please His fellowmen and stay within norms. His priority was to be accessible to the masses and Jesus and some of His disciples were austere and detached. THey held meetings around grapes and bread.

 

My View: I don`t like to be a vegetarian to please you. It`ll come in time if Krsna wants me to be a vegetarian. He can do anything He pleases.

 

There seems to be a lot of hidden meaning in Jesus's parables.

 

His angry reaction outside the Jewish Temple. What was His message ? "You want to eat meat ? Just kill it and eat it. Don't do the pretend sacrifice rituals. They are of no use." He hated pretense and hypocrasy. He just showed that KRshna gives free will. That did not mean its the right way for individual soul's and living beings' welfare.

 

My View: Jesus only got mad when he saw his Father`s temple being made into a marketplace. Jesus message was LOVE. It was not about eating meat. The latter wasn`t his priority.

 

 

If you pray to Krshna to develop the desire to give up these attachments, He will help you.

 

My View: I will remove from my memory the word DESIRE. It`s the cause why I have these attachments.

 

But if anyone harbours desire for the fish and meat, Krshna is so kind He will make sure its on the menu.

 

My View: I have remove finally the word DESIRE from my memory.

 

SB 11.3.3: Śrī Antarīkṣa said: O mighty-armed King, by activating the material elements, the primeval Soul of all creation has sent forth all living beings in higher and lower species so that these conditioned souls can cultivate either sense gratification or ultimate liberation, according to their desire.

 

My View: May that wonderful flute player of Vrndavan remind me to chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare life after life.

 

Purport : In the last para, Jiva Goswami comments on SB 10.82.7 in context of this verse -11.3.3.

"The Lord created the intelligence, senses, mind and vital air of the living beings for sense gratification, for performing sacrifices to attain higher births, and ultimately for offering sacrifices to the Supreme Soul." (SB10.82.7)

According to Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, the actual purpose of the Lord's creation is only one: to facilitate the advancement of devotional service to the Lord Himself. Although it is stated that the Lord facilitates sense gratification, it should be understood that the Supreme Personality of Godhead does not ultimately condone the foolishness of the conditioned souls. The Lord facilitates sense gratification (mātrā-prasiddhaye) so that the living entities will gradually understand the futility of trying to enjoy without Him. Every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedic literature the Lord gives a regulative program so that the living beings can gradually exhaust their tendencies to be foolish and learn the value of surrender unto Him. The Lord is undoubtedly the reservoir of all beauty, bliss and satisfaction, and it is the duty of every living entity to engage in the loving service of the Lord. Although there are apparently two purposes for creation, it should be understood that ultimately the purpose is one. The arrangement for sense gratification is ultimately meant to bring the living entities to the single purpose of going back home, back to Godhead.

 

MY View: Going home back to Godhead actually means being able to chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare without any impediments.

 

 

 

-------------------

 

Once you are detached from these foods, Krshna might appoint you as the pioneer advocating vegetarianism in your community. To have the Chinese restaurant offer more vegetarian dishes. To bring veg recipes , started kits to homes. To assure them how veg diet can be complete.

 

My View; There used to be a Govinda restaurant in our place. But it disintegrated into thin air. And the Hare Krsna temple in Pagsabungan Road, Basak , Mandaue City, Cebu can no longer be found.

 

 

"Vegetarian advocacy is a form of Christian stewardship and discipleship, because vegetarianism honors God by showing respect for God’s environment, animals, and humans. When our lives honor God, we feel closer to God and spiritually more fulfilled. So, encouraging people to try vegetarianism is offering a gift, for them as well as for the rest of Creation."

- Christian Vegetarian Association : Christianity and Vegetarianism - Christian Vegetarian Association

 

 

 

My View: I`m supposed to be an advocate of vegetarianism because I`m a physician myself. But I failed.

 

I wish you and your family all the best.

 

 

Thank you so much Smaranamji for being very concerned and thoughtful. I hope your advocacy in vegetarianism succeeds where my failure to do so ends.

 

Pranam.

Hare Krshna

 

God Bless

Haribol

 

 

 

[bhaktajan]

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by melvin

Dear Holy Child of Cebu,

 

I don`t know if you can forgive me.....

 

I have been a carnivore all my life.

No matter how I try, I can never detach myself from eating these tamasic foods. .......

 

They taught me that eating meat wasn`t a sin but what comes from the heart like lust, greed, murder, etc.

 

I may not be like my friends here who are vegetarians my Lord. Hope they can forgive me,too.

 

Yours truly,

 

Melvin

(www.basilicadelsantoninodecebu.org.ph)

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Purgatory is strictly and originally a part of Catholic Canon.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

These are the same sentiments of forest residents surrounding the home compounds of Gurus & Gurukulas since time immemorial.

So again we look up to the 'High-life' while doing the hands-on work.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

It's not about the words [ie: Rap Song Lyrics] . . . it's about 'works' & 'Actions'.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

You should learn from the sufferYou ings around you that point to the very same lessons in the Vedas --that occur in your personal life [ie: family obesity; ergo, diabietes, colon polyps removals and worse.]

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Your family affections are too close for the pursuit of spiritual affections. You conflate the two topics.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

You left out one class of familiar enjoyments [ie: the most reknown one: Sex] --after all those so-called foodstuffs: Surely every one had arrainged for the democratic pursuit of copulation as the ''

 

so learn how you can become rich: Become the Biggest "retailer of Condoms and paper towel products and it's RELATED sundry articles". Then you can build a new Catholic Church in Cebu.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

It is not possible to continue to eat meat ---after

[melvin]

You should, Bhaktajan, try your luck staying in prison from 8am to 4pm, Monday to Friday. The Governor of Cebu assigned me, from May 15, 2007 up to the present, as the physician of 1000 or more dancing inmates confined in CPCRC. Maybe, you will get to know what real suffering is.

 

Link: www.youtube.com/cpdrc

[bhaktajan]

 

Originally Posted by melvin

Dear Holy Child of Cebu,

 

I don`t know if you can forgive me.....

 

I have been a carnivore all my life.

No matter how I try, I can never detach myself from eating these tamasic foods. .......

 

They taught me that eating meat wasn`t a sin but what comes from the heart like lust, greed, murder, etc.

 

I may not be like my friends here who are vegetarians my Lord. Hope they can forgive me,too.

 

Yours truly,

 

Melvin

(www.basilicadelsantoninodecebu.org.ph)

 

 

 

Purgatory is strictly and originally a part of Catholic Canon.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

These are the same sentiments of forest residents surrounding the home compounds of Gurus & Gurukulas since time immemorial.

So again we look up to the 'High-life' while doing the hands-on work.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

It's not about the words [ie: Rap Song Lyrics] . . . it's about 'works' & 'Actions'.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

You should learn from the sufferings around you that point to the very same lessons in the Vedas --that occur in your personal life [ie: family obesity; ergo, diabietes, colon polyps removals and worse.]

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Your family affections are too close for the pursuit of spiritual affections. You conflate the two topics.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

You left out one class of familiar enjoyments [ie: the most reknown one: Sex] --after all those so-called foodstuffs: Surely every one had arrainged for the democratic pursuit of copulation as the 'Pièce de résistance' dessert night-cap. ---so learn how you can become rich: Become the Biggest "retailer of Condoms and paper towel products and it's RELATED sundry articles". Then you can build a new Catholic Church in Cebu.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

It is not possible to continue to eat meat ---after taking (honoring) Krishna-Prasadam.

Edited July 15, 2009 by bhaktajan

[melvin]

 

It is not possible to continue to eat meat ---after taking (honoring) Krishna-Prasadam.

 

That`s why I said sorry. I still eat meat after taking Prasadam or Holy Communion.

[bhaktajan]

You are too much on the Mental Platform.

You must learn from the events you experience.

"Stupidity" is not to be confused with innocent mistakes.

"Stupidity" does not occur to provide a lesson for compassion.

"Stupidity" provides a lesson as to 'what to avoid' ---while preforming your duty [ie: while driving your car you pass car accident on the other road --you look and are reminded as to what you should concentrate on, as, ironically, the police wave you on saying 'there's nothing to look at, keep moving', and, ironically, as the helicopter takes Photos for the morning newspapers or dinner-Time television Reports].

 

It is not possible to continue to eat meat ---after taking (honoring) Krishna-Prasadam. If so, one has only jsut "tasted" Krishna-Prasadam.

 

One returns for more Krishna-Prasadam because they must confirm what they had only "tasted" last time they took Krishna-Prasadam.

 

The taste for foods other than Krishna-Prasadam are overshadowed by "What you are "missing out on". If you cannot arrainge for daily consumption of Krishna-Prasadam --that is the "height of mis-fortune par excellence**" [see? **No contradiction.].

[bhaktajan]

The Gita speaks of Three Progressive levels of Mystic Vision/realization:

 

1 Brahman - The all-prevading, Untarnished, eternal, unborn, non-material Void.

 

2 Param-Atma - The living force in the heart of all things.

 

3 Bhagavan - God the father in The Kingdom of Heaven.

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Each has its required ettiquette/rules of Action.

 

The ettiquette/rules of Action are borne out of appriciating the lessons that teach avoidence from Bad ettiquette & erroneous rules of Actions.

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Forget your sentiments ---Read the instruction manual again and again.

 

BTW, when feeling poor/helpless/dejected/weak/frail/sleepy ---release all things and sense the (inverse-approach) of bliss (ananda). The rasa (and bliss) of renunciation begins with releasing all anxiety and misgivings.

[melvin]

 

.

 

 

There`s no Krsna-Prasadam available here in Cebu City. There used to exist a Govinda restaurant in the heart of the city. But it disappeared. There used to be a Hare Krsna temple in Mandaue City, the city next to Cebu City, but it can nowhere be found. I know because I used to go there and partake the delicious Krsna Prasadam which the devotees at the temple offer to the public during Sundays. All we have now is the Host we take during Holy Communions inside the Catholic Church every Sunday.

[kshama]

Respected Members,

 

I have been following this thread for a while. God is epitome of goodness. I think as long as one has bhakti, god will always be there for him/her.

 

Being a vegan or vegetarian is indeed noble, but it doesn't guarantee one will taste liberation. The non-vegetarians should think...if this particular attachment (eating non-vege) is so difficult to overcome, how would they overcome much more adverse difficulties in their quest into spirituality and getting near god?

 

I am sure whatever eating or sexual preference you are, whatever deeds you do, god knows you better. Let the consequence of your actions determined and judged by god. In this precious lifetime, one must look ways to strengthen bhakti. Namaste.

Edited July 15, 2009 by kshama

[Lotus_eye]

I dont know what to say when I read the postings on what kind of food to offer and what not to offer.

I think one can offer anything to God as long as they have the pure devotion. But if your mind can discriminate between vegetarian and non-vegetarian food unlike "Kannappa Nayanar", then offering vegetarian food is acceptable.

Garlic, Onion and some nuts are primarily rich in amino acids that increase the production of Nitric oxide that is involved in vasodilation and hence can be aphrodisiac, these vegetables and nuts are advised not to be taken if someone is observing fasting or religious vows, and when you offer to God, it becomes a Prasad and hence you need to take them. So when you want to control, you dont want to offer God what you dont want to take. thats the explanation I can think of from whatever that was written earlier as what to offer and what not to offer.

But those vegetables and nuts are also created by God only and I dont think He dismisses them off.

If a person is totally ignorant of anything but full of love and devotion to Lord, even if he offers meat, He accepts it and there are quotes in puranic literature for this.

 

Personally, I like a particular brand of Ice cream in chocolate and nut flavor that I buy from K-mart and Walmart and to me whatever I like and enjoy the taste, I have to share it with Krishna and regardless of anything that is written or said, I first put a pinch of ice cream on my Krishna Deity at home and only then I feel like eating it.

One of the days, I ate the ice cream outside my house, and thought about Krishna while opening the wrap and could not actually put a pinch on the mouth of the Krishna deity I have at home since I am outside. The thought brought a smile on my face although.

That night I had a pleasant dream in which Krishna was sitting on my lap and I am feeding him butter with my finger. He was licking my finger the first time and the second time, he bit my finger and giggled and laughed. That feeling of a little boy of two years old biting my finger with love woke me up from sleep and in conscious state, I still had that feeling of biting on my right forefinger that I used in the dream to feed him butter.

So as long as you have devotion, its okay to give Him anything you like.

[Amlesh]

 

Respected Members,

 

I have been following this thread for a while. God is epitome of goodness. I think as long as one has bhakti, god will always be there for him/her.

 

Being a vegan or vegetarian is indeed noble, but it doesn't guarantee one will taste liberation. The non-vegetarians should think...if this particular attachment (eating non-vege) is so difficult to overcome, how would they overcome much more adverse difficulties in their quest into spirituality and getting near god?

 

I am sure whatever eating or sexual preference you are, whatever deeds you do, god knows you better. Let the consequence of your actions determined and judged by god. In this precious lifetime, one must look ways to strengthen bhakti. Namaste.

 

Great post Kshamaji.

[bhaktajan]

Mt 5:48 — Be ye therefore perfect, even as your FATHER which is IN HEAVEN is perfect.

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

Surely you all know that we must prepare ourselves to recieve the audience of God?

 

The specific ettiquette is taught by Vaishnavas --otherwise such knowledge (of the Mystery of God) is only appreciated by way of hankerings culimnating in a superficial state of titillating suspense.

 

Even if God is a faceless Cloud-Spirit-Mystery to your mind . . . in your concept/revelations of the 'Ways of Heaven' --do you truely suppose that there is meat eating in Heaven? . . do you truely suppose that there are creatures running around in Heaven with the dharma that they will be caught for food, as a transcendental pastime in God's company?

 

If you think, "Yeah but, Yeah but, Yeah but, Yeah but . . ." ---then just see ungracious and crass and mundanely we Lie to ourselves about what we truely think philosophically!

 

If you think, "Yes, maybe" ---you are lieing to yourself ---you are talking something you really don't believe!