What`s in a name?

[melvin]

What`s the difference between Krsna and Christ? Are they both the same? Would I achieve liberation or self-realization if I chant, " Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja "

 

Any view from you would be most welcome.

[kshama]

 

What`s the difference between Krsna and Christ? Are they both the same? Would I achieve liberation or self-realization if I chant, " Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja "

 

Any view from you would be most welcome.

 

Respected Melvin Ji,

 

I reckon from your previous post that you are a Christian.

Coming back to your question, though I lack experience and knowledge pertaining this matter, in my opinion, if your conviction towards your religion and god is strong , liberation as told by your religion is around the corner. If you have strong faith, there is no need to ask others about your own faith.

 

For me god is for all, if one is sincere and devoted enough, god will surely grant you liberation or any other thing as stated in your scriptures.

 

These are my thoughts, and if any of the lines above offended anyone, I apologize in advance. Namaste.

[theist]

What`s the difference between Krsna and Christ? Are they both the same? Would I achieve liberation or self-realization if I chant, " Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja "

 

Any view from you would be most welcome.

 

Yes certainly, but liberation comes in variegated forms. If your bhakti towards Christ was not polluted with impersonalism and you worshipped Christ as the servant of the Father then Lord Jesus may bless you with liberation into the variety found in the Spiritual Sky.

 

My belief is this is very rare. We should not think that all these millions of so-called Christians are achieving this.

 

Srila Prabhupada when asked if Jesus had his own planet spoke of a planet within this universe that he called Christ-loka. It is this planet where the true disciples of Jesus Christ go to for final training in Krishna/Vishnu consciousness and then they go to the Spiritual Sky according to their particular rasa.

 

Jesus did not come to earth to replace the Supreme Person but rather to draw souls to and reveal the Supreme Person.

 

It is also my belief that Lord Jesus has unlimited disciples from many other planets in this universe. Earth was certainly not his first mission nor his last and that these disciples also go to the plane of Christ-loka.

 

But with the Holy Names it is not an either or situation. You can chant the names of the Son and the Father together.

 

Jaya Jaya Yeshua! Jaya Jaya Krishna!

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.harekrishnatemple.com/images/jesusandkrsna1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.harekrishnatemple.com/bhakta/chapter27.html&usg=__lptJiEM5Rhzkk3xugr6IKqQBQd4=&h=353&w=263&sz=23&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=Zl-UyRY_EtL3eM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJesus%2Band%2BKrishna%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1B3GGGL_enUS330US330%26sa%3DG

[sambya]

 

Srila Prabhupada when asked if Jesus had his own planet spoke of a planet within this universe that he called Christ-loka. It is this planet where the true disciples of Jesus Christ go to for final training in Krishna/Vishnu consciousness and then they go to the Spiritual Sky according to their particular rasa.

 

 

 

did he ?!! ho ho ho .....................fine now show me scriptural evidence . if you cannot then admit that iskcon often deviated from what you call "vedic ways" and does not stick to scriptures as steadfastly as it claims !!

[sambya]

whats in a name ?!!

 

nothing .........its the belief that matters .............krishna durga radha shiva all are different names !!

[OmHari]

 

What`s the difference between Krsna and Christ? Are they both the same? Would I achieve liberation or self-realization if I chant, " Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja Oh Lord Oh Lord Christ my Lord Alleluja "

 

Any view from you would be most welcome.

 

If you ask me, I would say, God is ONE, the SUPREME, the ABSOLUTE LOVE. But you ask if Christ and Krishna are same, well, to my knowledge, Christ was not playing flute, neither was doing any passtimes of protecting cows, playing sweet flute, or accepting Himself as the SUPREME.

If you chant the form of Christ, you cannot see the SUPREME in its sweetness as is with KRISHNA, because Krishna is ALL Attractive.

 

Now, if you have faith, believe in Christ and it makes you humble, to serve the devoted people and spread LOVE, and compassion, then it can benefit you.

 

But if you say you chant Christ, and at the same time, dont see the suffering of slaughtered animals, (as most Christians I know are meat eaters and dont care about animals if they have soul or no as far as it satisfies the taste buds with their flesh and blood) who are killed brutally for "food" industry, then I think you cannot call yourself devoted to "love" for Christ.

 

Because if you could understand love and compassion, you would have it for jivas who have eyes but cant speak.

 

Whereas, Vaishnavas know the suffering of others and know that this material word is full of pain and suffering so they try to make it better by spreading love and compassion and would hesitate to kill even a fly.

Edited July 9, 2009 by OmHari

[melvin]

In the New Testament of the Bible, there`s no verse describing in full what Christ looks like. Unlike in Srimad Bhagavatam where there is a verse describing Krsna sporting a long black wavy or curly hair, eyes in the shape of a lotus petal, smiling lips with bluish black skin. In short, followers of Christ who chants his name don`t have a clear picture whether his hair is long, black or curly; whether his skin is black or white; whether his eyes are big or small. The general consensus however is that Christ has the features of a Jew. But how do we know? Mary and Joseph wasn`t the biological parents of Christ. So, that rules out Christ resembling a Jew. Maybe Christ was created in Krsna`s image.

 

If Christ is an English word, Kristo a Greek word, and Krsna a Sanskrit word. Then chanting the names Krsna Jai instead of Christ Jesus does make sense to me if I were a Christian born in India or Kristo Jesu if I were a Christian born in Greece.

[theist]

 

In the New Testament of the Bible, there`s no verse describing in full what Christ looks like. Unlike in Srimad Bhagavatam where there is a verse describing Krsna sporting a long black wavy or curly hair, eyes in the shape of a lotus petal, smiling lips with bluish black skin. In short, followers of Christ who chants his name don`t have a clear picture whether his hair is long, black or curly; whether his skin is black or white; whether his eyes are big or small. The general consensus however is that Christ has the features of a Jew. But how do we know? Mary and Joseph wasn`t the biological parents of Christ. So, that rules out Christ resembling a Jew. Maybe Christ was created in Krsna`s image.

 

The outward appearance of Jesus Christ is not the point. It is irrelevant. It is the sound of the Holy Names that has the spiritual value. An Avatar of the Lord can take on any form to accomplish his mission.

 

 

If Christ is an English word, Kristo a Greek word, and Krsna a Sanskrit word. Then chanting the names Krsna Jai instead of Christ Jesus does make sense to me if I were a Christian born in India or Kristo Jesu if I were a Christian born in Greece.

 

Prabhupada taught that just as Christ comes from Kristos, Kritos comes from Krishna. The language does not matter to God. What matters is what your intent is. My neighbor is Mexican and named Jesus. If I call to him while he is standing in his yard do you think Lord Jesus will think I am calling out to him?

 

Or if I am in my heart crying out to God but speak only Chinese do you think the Lord will not understand me and ignore my prayer?

 

These are all external considerations that have no real value except to the sectarianist that think God only hears and answers their prayers. We know who they are, they make up 99.9% of every religion on the Earth.

 

Being a Catholic or Muslim or Hindu or Jew won't save you. Only being a lover of God will save you.

 

" A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet."

[melvin]

 

.

 

Being a Catholic or Muslim or Hindu or Jew won't save you. Only being a lover of God will save you.

 

" A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet."

 

Only a lover of God can be saved? If Ajamila named his son Christ instead of Narayana would that have saved him from going to hell?

[Dasosmi]

 

did he ?!! ho ho ho .....................fine now show me scriptural evidence . if you cannot then admit that iskcon often deviated from what you call "vedic ways" and does not stick to scriptures as steadfastly as it claims !!

 

If you accept other religious teachings as scriptures, then there is a great deal of explanation regarding this issue taught by the Mormons. For your convenience, I found a quote that may enlighten your understanding on this matter.

 

Mormon website:

"To the Mormon, salvation means resurrection from the dead. To the Mormon, eternal life means exaltation after the resurrection. It is the goal of the Mormon to obtain exaltation, because everyone ever born into the world will be resurrected, but according to Mormon belief, only the select Mormon believers will be exalted. Even among Mormon believers, most will be exalted, but only a few will actually attain to the ultimate, that of becoming a god and ruling over their own planet".

 

It is further explained that Jesus too rules a planet of his own. Our Srila Prabhupada was preaching to people from all sorts of backgrounds and thus he quoted many references from different sources with the aim of spreading love of god. I am not implying that he quoted Mormon philosophy (maybe he did) but the point is there are lots of refrences on this matter. From vedic point of view we can easily accept the possibility by looking at many examples of great devotees that have achived and rule planets of their own.

Hare Krishna.

[theist]

 

Only a lover of God can be saved? If Ajamila named his son Christ instead of Narayana would that have saved him from going to hell?

Yes. Christ or Yahweh or Allah under the principle of namabhasa. The it comes up what you might mean by hell. heaven and hell as the only two options and then for eternity as taught by the Christians is such a ridiculous idea. I hope you are now not going in that direction.

If I remember correctly Ajamila did not go directly back to Godhead.

[sambya]

 

If you accept other religious teachings as scriptures, then there is a great deal of explanation regarding this issue taught by the Mormons.

 

other people's scriptures are not something that i follow or would wish to follow . however i sincerely believe that there is a lot of unnecessary things and adulterations in our scriptures which need to be strained out before accepting . thats why it is said accept the bhava-artha or the inner meaning .

 

however i find the iskcon dogmatically sticks to quoting what they call vedic scriptures to fault find with someone else's philosophy or to assert their philosophical supremacy . but when it comes to other situations like winning over christian converts they happily explore other scriptures or even formulate some , which in my understanding is double standards !! this is the reason i said what i said in my last post !

 

 

 

It is further explained that Jesus too rules a planet of his own. Our Srila Prabhupada was preaching to people from all sorts of backgrounds and thus he quoted many references from different sources with the aim of spreading love of god.

 

 

well , im certainly not saying that his intention was bad . he definitely did it for welfare of those fallen souls . but if iskcon can be liberal enough to accept other scriptures as authentic why not the same with other hindu scriptures ?!!

[sant]

 

well , im certainly not saying that his intention was bad . he definitely did it for welfare of those fallen souls . but if iskcon can be liberal enough to accept other scriptures as authentic why not the same with other hindu scriptures ?!!

Sambya dont you think it is important to take the esence of scriptures.

So that has been done.

Srimad bhagwat is the essence of scriptures.

Where has prabhupada denied a scripture that is vedic.

Can you give an example.

[theist]

 

well , im certainly not saying that his intention was bad . he definitely did it for welfare of those fallen souls . but if iskcon can be liberal enough to accept other scriptures as authentic why not the same with other hindu scriptures ?!!

Various religious books are given for various peoples to draw them closer to God. The Bible is for those people we call jews. Jesus's teaching were to help rqise them out of their rather mundane religion. They were little more than an animal sacrificing cult with some other barbaric pratices like stoning women for adultery.

 

Jesus refused to sanction the stoning ritual by telling the religious mob that the one among them without sin could cast the first stone. Jesus Christ put mercy above law.

 

He also directly challenged the practice of animal sacrifice by overturning the tables of those at the temple that were selling birds and goats to be sacrificed to God for the cleansing of their own personal sins. That led to his crucifixion a few days later.

 

So not that Srila Prabhupada sactioned the whole Bible as scripture but if one takes the essence of the Bible which are the teachings of CXhrist then that part is eternal scripture.

 

vedic texts are vast in number. Some are more to the point spiritually and those should be concentrated on. The point being Bhakti to the ONE Supreme Lord. Therefore why would expect a vaisnava to recommend something from the karma-khanda section?

 

It is not so much rejection as it is full acceptance of something higher.

 

Krishna Himself tells us in the Gita not to be distracted by the flowery words of the vedas.

[theist]

 

Sambya dont you think it is important to take the esence of scriptures.

So that has been done.

Srimad bhagwat is the essence of scriptures.

Where has prabhupada denied a scripture that is vedic.

Can you give an example.

[Dasosmi]

 

other people's scriptures are not something that i follow or would wish to follow . however i sincerely believe that there is a lot of unnecessary things and adulterations in our scriptures which need to be strained out before accepting . thats why it is said accept the bhava-artha or the inner meaning .

 

however i find the iskcon dogmatically sticks to quoting what they call vedic scriptures to fault find with someone else's philosophy or to assert their philosophical supremacy . but when it comes to other situations like winning over christian converts they happily explore other scriptures or even formulate some , which in my understanding is double standards !! this is the reason i said what i said in my last post !

 

 

 

 

well , im certainly not saying that his intention was bad . he definitely did it for welfare of those fallen souls . but if iskcon can be liberal enough to accept other scriptures as authentic why not the same with other hindu scriptures ?!!

 

Dear Sambya,

(we are way off the topic from the original post).

I agree bhava-artha or the inner meaning should be the focus of our journey back home. Let us not then get carried away and blame a certain institution for producing few contradictory points while it creates wonderful opportunities for many many souls to take shelter of the Lord. It is very clear what ISKCON's intentions are. So let's look at the intention of this wonderful society rather than pouring salt on the few scratches it has.

 

With all due respect, I would like to make a humble suggestion. I agree with your point of view on many subject matters regarding our scriptures. I would like to beg you to kindly stop talking about "ISKCON" as a whole based on certain actions or words of its selected few members. If we have an issue with a certain person, it is better we address it to that individual rather than blaming the entire society. Few spots on the moon does not prevent it from spreading its rays. Lord Jagannaths glories are being heard in so many corners of the world. Is this not a reason to rejoice? ISKCON is one and its members are many. Blaming the society blames all its members. The ideal leader of ISKCON is non other than His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. You have already come to two conclusions (1) Bhava artha (2) Prabhupadas clear intentions. Let's reap the fruits of those to conclusions.

 

Hare Krishna.

[melvin]

 

Yes. Christ or Yahweh or Allah under the principle of namabhasa. The it comes up what you might mean by hell. heaven and hell as the only two options and then for eternity as taught by the Christians is such a ridiculous idea. I hope you are now not going in that direction.

If I remember correctly Ajamila did not go directly back to Godhead.

 

I don`t know what`s the principle of namabhasa, Theist. What I know was Ajamila used to be a brahmana. But got attracted to a prostitute. Later became sinful having sex with different ones. Ajamila may have completely forgotten God. And perhaps it was his luck to have named his youngest son Narayana. When it was Ajamila`s time to be taken, grotesque-looking messengers of Yamaraja came with ropes eagerly wanting to take this sinful man to hell. Fearful upon seeing them, Ajamila, called out Narayana, his son whom he was so fond with. At that instant, the messengers of Visnu arrived and forbade the messengers of Yamaraja to take Ajamila away to hell. To resolve to whom should Ajamila`s soul go, they took him to Yamaraja, the King of Hell, himself. Yamaraja`s messengers wanted an explanation as to why Ajamila, a very sinful man, shouldn`t not languish in hell according to Visnu`s messengers. When the latter cited why, Yamaraja, immmediately broke down and cried after the name Narayana was mentioned. For how could he forget his Lord, that wonderful flute player of Vrndavan who is Narayana himself. After describing Narayana to his messengers they with finality were ordered not to approach and take a sinful man like Ajamila again or else. Just like in a dream, Ajamila got back his life after waking up from the deep slumber of maya`s illusory energy.

 

Who says Ajamila didn`t go home back to Godhead, Theist? If Lord Caitanya didn`t advocate chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra then there`s no sense further of doing so if one can just easily erase his sins by chanting the names Christ or Allah. Krsna`s names ( Narayana, Govinda, etc.) are above all the other names not found in the Vedic scriptures.

[theist]

 

did he ?!! ho ho ho .....................fine now show me scriptural evidence . if you cannot then admit that iskcon often deviated from what you call "vedic ways" and does not stick to scriptures as steadfastly as it claims !!

 

I am not a member of Iskcon nor am I a spokesman for them. I suggest you redirect your question to them.

[sambya]

 

Dear Sambya,

(we are way off the topic from the original post).

I agree bhava-artha or the inner meaning should be the focus of our journey back home. Let us not then get carried away and blame a certain institution for producing few contradictory points while it creates wonderful opportunities for many many souls to take shelter of the Lord. It is very clear what ISKCON's intentions are. So let's look at the intention of this wonderful society rather than pouring salt on the few scratches it has.

 

With all due respect, I would like to make a humble suggestion. I agree with your point of view on many subject matters regarding our scriptures. I would like to beg you to kindly stop talking about "ISKCON" as a whole based on certain actions or words of its selected few members. If we have an issue with a certain person, it is better we address it to that individual rather than blaming the entire society. Few spots on the moon does not prevent it from spreading its rays. Lord Jagannaths glories are being heard in so many corners of the world. Is this not a reason to rejoice? ISKCON is one and its members are many. Blaming the society blames all its members. The ideal leader of ISKCON is non other than His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. You have already come to two conclusions (1) Bhava artha (2) Prabhupadas clear intentions. Let's reap the fruits of those to conclusions.

 

Hare Krishna.

 

yes ,i'll try to speak more about the positive sides in iskcon . but this entire thing wouldnt have arisen at all if iskcon be a little more diplomatic in showing minimal respect towards other faiths . hope it understands and rectifies .

[sambya]

 

Sambya dont you think it is important to take the esence of scriptures.

 

yes of course ..........thats what i said .........didnt you understand the meaning of bhava artha ?

 

 

 

Where has prabhupada denied a scripture that is vedic.

Can you give an example.

 

i didnt claim he denied a scripture !! why should i bother to provide examples ?

[sambya]

 

. The Bible is for those people we call jews. Jesus's teaching were to help rqise them out of their rather mundane religion. They were little more than an animal sacrificing cult with some other barbaric pratices like stoning women for adultery.

 

 

ha .......we have another entrant to theist's brand new list of ' mundane religion ' --- judaisim !!

 

 

to dasosmi -- see , this was the thing i was telling you about !!

[chandu_69]

 

yes ,i'll try to speak more about the positive sides in iskcon . but this entire thing wouldnt have arisen at all if iskcon be a little more diplomatic in showing minimal respect towards other faiths . hope it understands and rectifies .

 

Hmm, sambya wants iskcon to be diplomatic, and if they don't err ..be diplomatic he will cry hoarse.Not bad , but when he come across abrahamic faiths(particularly islam) attack

hinduism he tucks his tail and vanish.

 

This is the way pusillanimous neo-hindus act.They are all fire and brimstone in friendly atmospheres, but disappear when a no-holds barred attack is launched by other imperialistic faiths.

[theist]

 

ha .......we have another entrant to theist's brand new list of ' mundane religion ' --- judaisim !!

 

 

to dasosmi -- see , this was the thing i was telling you about !!

 

Not new to the list of mundane religions. Animal sacrificing cults have always been at the top of my list. You don't consider slaughtering innocent animals and offering their blood to God as an attempt to cleanse the soul mundane?

 

Actually considering the meaning of the word mundane I thought I was being charitable. Barbaric is more to the truth.

 

 

Main Entry:mun·dane Pronunciation: \ˌmən-ˈdān, ˈmən-ˌ\ Function:adjective Etymology:Middle English mondeyne, from Anglo-French mundain, from Late Latin mundanus, from Latin mundus worldDate:15th century 1 : of, relating to, or characteristic of the world 2 : characterized by the practical, transitory, and ordinary : commonplace ....e mundane concerns of day-to-day life> synonyms see earthly

[sant]

 

yes of course ..........thats what i said .........didnt you understand the meaning of bhava artha ?

 

Ofcourse i did.THen if you have accepted that he has taken the essence of the scriptures then what is your problem.

 

 

 

 

i didnt claim he denied a scripture !! why should i bother to provide examples

 

 

but if iskcon can be liberal enough to accept other scriptures as authentic

JAi hari

[sambya]

 

Hmm, sambya wants iskcon to be diplomatic, and if they don't err ..be diplomatic he will cry hoarse.Not bad , but when he come across abrahamic faiths(particularly islam) attack

hinduism he tucks his tail and vanish.

 

This is the way pusillanimous neo-hindus act.They are all fire and brimstone in friendly atmospheres, but disappear when a no-holds barred attack is launched by other imperialistic faiths.

 

 

well , ideally i would be happiest if iskcon would learn to love other faiths as equal and valid ways to god . but since their ideology(GV) prohibits them thinking that way they should try to remain shut on other faiths and be diplomatic .

 

actually i had nothing to comment when some hate mongers came in and posted rubbishes about hinduism . after all isnt it a very common practise in islam and christianity ? but i grow sad when i see hindu brothers so intolerant !

 

chandu , can you converse without dragging in the same points - islam , muslim and neo hinduism ?! if you can then it would , for the first time show that you have a knowledge of things apart form them !!