sambya Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Actually considering the meaning of the word mundane I thought I was being charitable. Barbaric is more to the truth. be specific .......is judaism a barbaric mundane faith ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandu_69 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 actually i had nothing to comment when some hate mongers came in and posted rubbishes about hinduism . after all isnt it a very common practise in islam and christianity ? Ofcourse you have nothing to comment.And the silence of neohindus like you is treated as acceptance by the attackers.And the worst part is people like you think that it is nice:mad2: to remain silent. but i grow sad when i see hindu brothers so intolerant ! Ohh yes, not accepting attacks by these fellows is intolerance.I am disgusted with hindus like you who equate tolerance with timidity. But at the same time you have no problem to take issues with Iskonites and go on and on.Why this double standards?. chandu , can you converse without dragging in the same points - islam , muslim and neo hinduism ?! if you can then it would , for the first time show that you have a knowledge of things apart form them !! I don't shy away to take the bull by the horns if and when it becomes necessary.After all i didnt take an uneducated, confused fellow as my guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandu_69 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 be specific .......is judaism a barbaric mundane faith ? How does it bother you?. As for jewish scripture torah which is the foundation for Old testament, Hindu idolaters like you go to eternal hell. But your uneducated guru(Hamsa) said all faiths are valid. didn't he?.May be nobody read to him the scriptures(Deuteronomy 13:13-19). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 be specific .......is judaism a barbaric mundane faith ? I've been specific. Learn to read or quit trying to write. You are being nothing more than a pest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 christianity ? but i grow sad when i see hindu brothers so intolerant ! Why only hindu brothers. Arent muslims or christians your brothers. Thats why you are revolting against iskcon because they have considered christians as friends and not just accepting hindus into krishna consciousness.We are not at war with chritstians or muslims.Goes with you also mr chandu 69. Just why cant you accept a non hindu as a person . Nowadays i dont think many hindu will convert to islam especially aftrer all this terrorism.Why do you worry so much chandu. Anyway youve ignored my last message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I don't shy away to take the bull by the horns if and when it becomes necessary.After all i didnt take an uneducated, confused fellow as my guru. will you please mention who is your guru ? How does it bother you?. exactly...............how does my comments on iskcon bother you ? anyways .......im having a feeling that this thread might be closed down any moment now because it has turned into a fight and unproductive . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Why only hindu brothers.Arent muslims or christians your brothers. Thats why you are revolting against iskcon because they have considered christians as friends and not just accepting hindus into krishna consciousness.We are not at war with chritstians or muslims. yes ....christians and muslims are also brothers for sure !! and there should be absolutely no distinction made between two persons based on his faith . but it is just that personally im not yet so elevated to 'see' them as equals( theoritically i now them to be equals and accept that ) and would naturally have a greater liking towards members of my same faith . anyway i quit before the thread is closed . chandu , i must say(from observation) that you have an wonderfull knowledge of islam and other foreign faiths except that of your own !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Who says Ajamila didn`t go home back to Godhead, Theist? If Lord Caitanya didn`t advocate chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra then there`s no sense further of doing so if one can just easily erase his sins by chanting the names Christ or Allah. Krsna`s names ( Narayana, Govinda, etc.) are above all the other names not found in the Vedic scriptures. Ajamila did not go back to Godhead on the strength of chanting Narayana indicating his son. His mind was absorbed in thinking of his son and in great anxiety due to impending death he chanted the name Narayana, but still calling out to his son. This was namabhasa. Not pure chanting of the holy names but neither was it offensive in anyway (see ten offenses to the Holy names). See also Harinama Cintamani by Bhaktivinode Thakur to learn more about namabhasa. There is bound to be an on-line copy someplace. Ajamila after being recued from the servants of Yamaraja did not go straight back to Godhead. He went to Hardwar and entered a temple dedicated to the Supreme Lord, practiced devotional service, became purified and then was taken back to Godhead. Lord Caitanya prayed that the Lord has hundreds and millions of names and that all of them are invested with transcendental potency. And that there are no hard and fast rules for chanting these names. People are always trying to make Krishna into a legalistic theology of some kind when in fact Krishna is the Supremely Merciful Personality of Godhead. He is not sitting somewhere thinking, "I must reject this person's prayers because although sincere he doesn't know sanskrit." We must resist the tendency to try and impose our fanaticism onto Him through mental projection, that is, the mind assumes it's own small and narrow ideas must also be held by the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 PLEase delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Theist even dasharath did not directly go to vishnu loka though he took rama nam dyiing. Was this his wish or something else. (anyone free to answer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Theist even dasharath did not directly go to vishnu loka though he took rama nam dyiing.Was this his wish or something else. (anyone free to answer) Sant, I really have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 The Harinama Cintamani can be found at this list. Sri Harinama Cintamani Brought to us by The Bhaktivedanta memorial Library http://bvml.org/ which is a vast treasure house of Vaisnava writings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Event is a part of ramayana. Anyway thanks for the link. Jai Rama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaranam Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 How does it bother you?. As for jewish scripture torah which is the foundation for Old testament, Hindu idolaters like you go to eternal hell..... .May be nobody read to him the scriptures(Deuteronomy 13:13-19). First , Deuteronomy - found this online : "13 If, in any of the cities which the LORD, your God, gives you to dwell in, you hear it said 14 that certain scoundrels have sprung up among you and have led astray the inhabitants of their city to serve other gods whom you have not known, 15 you must inquire carefully into the matter and investigate it thoroughly. If you find that it is true and an established fact that this abomination has been committed in your midst, 16 you shall put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, dooming the city and all life that is in it, even its cattle, to the sword. About Abrahamic religions - my view 1] All this about "those others who worship other gods" or "do not abide by Allah's will" etc. is in the context of the geography , history , times and culture of those regions/nations. Here , worshipping other gods could mean yaksha-rakshasaas in raja-tama modes who oppressed people around Egypt, Europe and mid-east. OR , divine beings who are not the Supreme. ( Bhagvad Gita Chap 17 - different kinds of faith. ) 2] Jesus said "reach God only thru' Me" - that was perhaps meant for the nations in vicinity of Rome who had trade / war relations. Some say the original Hebrew said "only thru' one of God" which was taken to be : one of God = Jesus of the Christ. Also , "Me" can mean so many things. Certainly not the historical body that walked on earth. However, Jesus himself can bring Krshna to those who consider Krshna as the Supreme Lord, Bhagvad Gita as their prime scripture, but also accept Jesus's teachings and/or have taken his shelter. (Krishna brings saints, devotees ; Saints , devotees bring Krshna). 3] The animal sacrifices of Judaism and Islam seem to have a lot to do with the desert location and undeveloped agriculture of those times. Tailormade. Just a step in spiritual evolution. Relatively better on their conscience than just being raw hunters (which is what the meat industry today boils down to). Today's followers of either religion have advanced agriculture and agricultural products. Some take all of this out of context. Obviously, we do not look upon terrorists as representatives of their religion. This is simply my understanding. I do not have anything to back it up, but it can help those on either side of the fence. Jai Sri Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Bilvamangala Thakur life`s had a semblance to Ajamila considering that both fell from their respective positions due to their association with prostitutes.The former was irresistably attracted to one whose name was Cintamani. Bilvamangala even braved crossing the river`s raging waters just to get to her house on the opposite side. Instead of reaping sin for his irreverent attitude, Bilvamangala Thakur was suprisingly convinced by Cintamani a pure-devotee of Krsna to take up bhakti-yoga. If Ajamila`s downfall came from a woman of ill-refute, Cintamani a prostitute was instrumental in Bilvamangala Thakur`s conversion, who later in life, lamented;" I was situated a monist in order to become one with the Supreme, but somehow or other I contacted a naughty boy and became His eternal servitor." I don`t know, Theist, if Christ or Allah is naughty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 This was a thread started on the nature of the Holy Names. Please let's get back on track. We can have a different thread on religious intolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 This was a thread started on the nature of the Holy Names. Please let's get back on track. We can have a different thread on religious intolerance. Opps, I`m sorry. I`ve missed the boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Bilvamangala Thakur life`s had a semblance to Ajamila considering that both fell from their respective positions due to their association with prostitutes.The former was irresistably attracted to one whose name was Cintamani. Bilvamangala even braved crossing the river`s raging waters just to get to her house on the opposite side. Instead of reaping sin for his irreverent attitude, Bilvamangala Thakur was suprisingly convinced by Cintamani a pure-devotee of Krsna to take up bhakti-yoga. If Ajamila`s downfall came from a woman of ill-refute, Cintamani a prostitute was instrumental in Bilvamangala Thakur`s conversion, who later in life, lamented;" I was situated a monist in order to become one with the Supreme, but somehow or other I contacted a naughty boy and became His eternal servitor." I don`t know, Theist, if Christ or Allah is naughty. Well in one case the prostitute actually acted as a siksa guru. People of different religions are discovering different aspects of God. In the case of Jesus Christ do you think he revealed his inner life to the Hebrews? We don't know his most intimate relationship with Krishna. he could be an eternal cowherd boy for all we know. Do we know the inner life of Haridas Thakur? Is he naughty? We are meant to follow their examples and teachings. Chant the Holy names constantly and sacrifice yourself to fulfill the will of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaranam Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Sorry. I was the one who went off track. I apologize. Did think of starting another thread , but also wanted to refer to the quote here by Chandu_69. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Opps, I`m sorry. I`ve missed the boat. Not really Melvin. You launched the boat. But let's talk more about the Holy names and especially their non sectarian-nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 . Do we know the inner life of Haridas Thakur? Is he naughty? We are meant to follow their examples and teachings. Chant the Holy names constantly and sacrifice yourself to fulfill the will of God. If God is good then why did Bilvamangla Thakur label Krsna a naughty boy? Remember it was Cintamani who caused Bilvamangala`s conversion to accept bhakti-yoga instead of becoming one with the Supreme. That during his life, Bilvamangala contacted a naughty boy. That we know for a fact it was Krsna whom he was referring to. Did Krsna and Cintamani exchange roles when Bilvamangala Thakur visited Cintamani? That it was Krsna whom Bilvamangala met instead of Cintamani inside the prostitute`s house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Sarg 64 - Dashrath Dies After Telling the Shaap Story Dashrath repeatedly remembered the incident and cried for his sons. He said to Kaushalyaa - "I did this Paap in ignorance [still it was a Paap] so I thought to get rid of it. I filled the pitcher with water and arrived at the place where his parents were waiting for him. There I saw the blind and weak couple sitting. There was nobody there to protect them. They were waiting for their son to come. As they heard the sound of my foot steps, he said - "Son, you are very late. Bring us the water. Because you were late so your mother had some bad ideas about you. Now you come soon, and if you have committed any fault, don't think about it because you are a Tapaswee. You are our eyes, you are our protector. Why don't you speak something?" I trembled and said - "Hey Mahaatmaa I am not your son. I am the king Dashrath and because of my bad Karm I have come to see this sorrow. I came here, at the bank of Sarayoo River, to prey. I heard the sound of filling water in the pitcher. I thought it was an elephant, so I shot a poisonous arrow. Later when I came to the bank, I found a man wounded by my arrow. He died almost immediately. He expressed sorrow about his parents. Your son was killed by my arrow, but only in ignorance. therefore be pleased with me and order me as what should I do." Because I told everything clearly to Rishi, he did not give me Shaap. It was my mistake. At that time I was standing near Rishi. His eyes were red, he was fiercely angry, and he was crying. Hearing this his parents said - "Raajaa, Whatever you did was inauspicious. If you did not tell us the truth yourself, your head must have been broken into thousand pieces. If any Kshatriya kills any Vaanprasthee knowingly, then in spite of having control on his Indriyaan, he gets destroyed. If any Rishi is doing Tapasyaa and any Brahm-Gyanee kills him knowingly, his head breaks. Since it was done in ignorance, that is why you are still alive. Now you take us to that place where our son is lying, because we want to see our son once." I myself took them there. They touched his body and fell on his body and cried - "Son, You are not greeting us today? Who will read us Shaastra and Puraan? Who will bring us Kand, roots, fruits and now I will have to take care of your blind mother too. She was alive only because of your love. Wait for a while, don't go to Yam Raaj yet, go tomorrow with us, because we cannot live without you. We will pray Yam Raaj to pardon our son. He will surely give you to us. He will not allow you to die hit with the weapon." After that they offered jalanjali to their son, and said - "You have killed my son, now you kill me too. Because you have made me sonless, therefore I give you Shaap that you also die in the sorrow of your son. Whatever is our condition now, you will be in worse than this condition." Thus they gave me Shaap and burned themselves in a pyre. I am getting this sorrow because of that only, because Muni's words cannot go lie." And Raajaa Dashrath started crying. He spoke again - "It is certain that I will lose my life in this sorrow, because I cannot see you. At the time of dying people do not see others, therefore you caress me, and if Raam Himself comes here and accepts kingdom, maybe I can live. Whatever I have done to Raam, I shouldn't have done it. But Raam has gone to forest by my orders. It was worthy of Him to obey me, because no father leaves even his worst son. Now I cannot see you, my memory is also leaving me. I can't have sorrow greater than this that at the time of death I cannot see my dear son Raam. He will return after 14 years. Only He will be fortunate who will see Him." And crying thus Raajaa left his mortal body. Sarg 119 - Dashrath and Devtaa Come to See Raam Mahaadev Jee said to Raam - "You have removed the darkness from the world. Now you may go to Ayodhyaa and make Maa Kaushalyaa and Sumitraa, and brother Bharat happy. Be the king of Ayodhyaa, perform Ashwamedh Yagya and satisfy Braahman with wealth etc. Your father has come to see you with Devtaa on his Vimaan. Now he lives in Indra Lok. You have uplifted his life by being born as his son." Raajaa Dashrath got very happy to see Raam. He said - "Raam, I don't like even Swarg without you. Whatever Kaikeyee said to send you to forest, I remember them all even today. I am very happy to see you and Lakshman all right. You have uplifted my life because Vishnu incarnated in human form in my house. Devtaa told me this. Kaushalyaa is very fortunate that she will see you as king also. I want to see you along with Bharat." Raam said - "Hey father, Be happy with Kaikeyee because she was not at fault." Dashrath accepted this then he said to Lakshman - "Hey Lakshman, Now you serve Raam because he does good to mankind." Created by sushma gupta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Nice work, Sant:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Hey i never wrote this.ITs from ramayana Edited July 10, 2009 by sant sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Hey i never wrote this.ITs from ramayanaHome - Vaalmeeki Raamaayan Of course, you never wrote that. To para phrase my previous statement: " It`s a nice piece of work, Sant, you pasted on this thread.":) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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