Which is more important?

[theist]

Which is more important to you? Drinking milk from enslaved, mistreated and ultimately slaughtered cows or foregoing the drinking of such milk until it can be obtained from protected cows?

 

 

I am so tired of this phony talk of the cow as our 'Blessed Mother' etc. etc. by people who support the enslavement and ultimate slaughter of said "Mothers".

 

 

Stop supporting and promoting cow slaughter Kurma das (not the chef).

 

 

Vegans, Vegetarians, Milk and Cows

BY: KURMA DASA (NOT THE CHEF)

 

Jul 17, AUSTRALIA (SUN) —

There has been much discussion recently about devotees converting to be Vegans under the instructions of their voted-in ISKCON guru. Practically everywhere in Srila Prabhupada's books we learn about the importance of the Cow, as our mother and her milk and by-products as quintessential for development and growth, particularly in children.

 

Aside from this is another very important issue in regards to the acceptance of prasadam at ISKCON temples around the world, which is that we are to accept with respect whatever prasadam is offered. The temples are not a facility for placing orders for special diets ...no!

 

Prasadam is a very deeply spiritual experience, it's not that we can rock up to the prasadam room or hall, and place orders. However this is certainly what is happening here in Australia. Devotees who are taking to this Vegan diet on the advice of guru are changing operations to make the temple work for them, rather than them accepting the way that the temples have operated since Srila Prabhupada inaugurated them. This creates confusion for devotees at the Temples who do not adopt Vegan-ism.

 

ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada's Society and everything to be said and done has already been fixed by Srila Prabhupada. Devotees are neither Vegan's or Vegetarians, we are servants of Srila Prabhupada and His instructions. And His instructions are that cows and cow's milk as prasadam are important parts of our Krishna Consciousness Movement and lives. Instead of converting to Vegans, why not work out better ways to take on the burden of protecting more cows?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OmHari]

Its actually horrifying even to think about how our milking cows are treated these days.

 

Its not getting any better how we treat Go Mata and other animals in general and how we are fiddling with our Mother Earth. In fact, being vegan in situations where you cannot get milk from protected cows, calves makes very much sense indeed.

 

I have heard some really ugly things about the cruelties invovled, as if animals were supposed to be for humans for being ab"used".

 

We need to voice out for stopping this mistreatment of cows and other animals in factories farms because most farming horrors are well kept secret from the consumer "common man".

 

In earlier times things were so different (even just a few decades ago) cows kept with family and treated with love as one of the members.

The culture flourishes where animals are treated with respect and love and not for commercial gains.

 

My other concen is about all animals that are killed, for the meat industry.

 

Now, who is responsible in the process of this brutal slaughtering of animals?

One who permits the slaughter of an animal

One who cuts it up

One who kills it

One who buys or sells meat

One who cooks it

One who serves it up,

And one who eats it, must all be considered as the slayers of the animal

 

Can you stop to think for a while, when you are served meat, just think how did your food made it on your plate, how it will will affect your consciousness if there was cold blooded murder invovled in the process and that you have a choice, a healthier, environmentally beneficial,spiritual,murder-free, a choice to go vegetarian or even vegan, when you know animals are not treated right. Are you human enough to make this choice right now and today?

[smaranam]

My Vote : VEGAN ... That is , each individual adult could refrain from purchasing dairy from unprotected cows on their own.

 

However, the author has some good points. Milk has important elements for growth like B12, so children who have been drinking milk should continue, but their parents have to be aware that the children too do not need more than one glass a day (Srila Prabhupad said one glass a day is enough). Indulgence in milk products in excess in totally unnecessary and can be detrimental. That is why so many develop lactose intolerance.

 

Some children try to avoid milk but their parents want them to consume it.

Extreme caution is required regarding their nutrition though, when they come off it eventually.

 

 

Other things that have to go parallely

1. More cows under protection, helping cow protection farms

2. Making efforts to buy from these farms when possible

3. Communication with the dairy industry and related authorities

(perhaps joining hands with PETA ?)

 

No doubt , prasadam is transcendental, that i will honor with eyes closed, but slowly, perhaps, temples which don't already, could have a cow or two ? Or if possible , they could make arrangement to get milk from a cow protection farm. However, that should not stop individuals from staying away from unprotected dairy at home and elsewhere.

 

The devotees at Sydney recently joined the Sydney Vege Freeze , which had people dressed as the animals . Devotees performed Harinam and distributed prasadam laddoos. The pig, cow, chicken all danced with them. So did the people in the streets.

 

Jai Govind Jai Gopal

Edited July 18, 2009 by smaranam

[Dasosmi]

Hare Krishna.

It is indeed so sad to see mother cows being mistreated so much. It is even sadder to think that we are supporting such industry.

 

I am sure you have all heard of this argument..what about when you buy milk and offer it to Krishna. Are the cows not getting some punya by having their milk offered to the Lord?

[sambya]

that reminds me of the horrifying ways that a cow is presently treated in most villages of bengal . a few decades back a hindu was bound to keep a cow till her natural death either due to his own moral restrains or social fear . but now , with rapid growth of western ideals there is break down of traditional indian social structure where entire community lived as a greater family , and a growth of small selfish nuclear homes where social pressures and responsibility are not much . hence many poor hindu farmers who cant afford to maintain the animal once its productivity decreases and it grows old , finds it convineint and easy to sell it off to some other person ! now these persons are generally muslim butchers who have no other business with an old cow other than its flesh !! and those poor farmers think their hands are washed clean of all sins after this sale little realising that karmic laws are quite complex !

 

this is quite sad .

 

 

 

but reffering back to the topic of milk i think theist's idea has pratical problems . for example where to get such 'natural' milk in modern world ?

 

in india there are innumerable milkmen who go door to door selling milk procured from their personal home bred animals . many families buy such milk and that is the milk used for puja as packeted pastuerised milk is considered unclean . but there are more problems here ..............in order to make the milk white they add colouring agents , in order to make it foam they are detergent , in order to prevent it from getting damaged quickly they even add formalene !!! this is a greater problem in cities .

 

so where to get pure milk ? and without milk and its products , masoor etc who long can a man live ?

[sambya]

 

Hare Krishna.

It is indeed so sad to see mother cows being mistreated so much. It is even sadder to think that we are supporting such industry.

 

I am sure you have all heard of this argument..what about when you buy milk and offer it to Krishna. Are the cows not getting some punya by having their milk offered to the Lord?

 

 

that's not proper logic ......

 

once i read somewhere that the leather that mahatma gandhi used for his sandals were from cows that have died naturally . when i said it to an educated saffron devotee of certain gaudiya sampradaya he said "thats not very good of him..........to wear the skin of gomata in his feet . "

 

the instant thought that came to my mind was " what about mridangas then , are'nt they made of cow skins too .................and probably ones that have not died naturally ! are'nt we playing and beating on our dead mothers skin ? "

 

but then the popular escape route would be " its utlised for the service of krishna " ..............but i kept shut because he was a nice man and saffron sadhu !

 

.........................aagh !! ..........................using the same logic whats the harm in sacrifing a goat before kali ?............... it gives the goat tremendous 'punya' !!

 

and logic should be universally applicable ....

 

 

 

 

 

actually this difference between causing violance to an animal and and perfect non-violance is is very narrow . i think refraining from conscious harm to any living animal and practising vegetarianism is enough for a spiritual aspirant . anymore analysis and interpretation only adds to the worrys !

[theist]

 

Hare Krishna.

It is indeed so sad to see mother cows being mistreated so much. It is even sadder to think that we are supporting such industry.

 

I am sure you have all heard of this argument..what about when you buy milk and offer it to Krishna. Are the cows not getting some punya by having their milk offered to the Lord?

 

Yes I have heard it and reject it outright.Like Supersoul is taking score of which atoms in the giant milk pot came from which cow and therefore He awards a few brownie points to those cows. It in the same line as the stealing money from the "karmis" on "sankirtana" is okay but the victim gets some ajnana-sukriti. never mind this mode of ignorance practice succeeded in turning off the western countries to Krishna consciousness and left Iskcon with the reputation of being a cheating religious cult.

 

A better example would be the stealing of flowers from others property and offering them to Krishna in the name of "It's really Krishna's property and the ownersa get punya from it". I was in Hawai when this uproar came from the neighbors of the krishna temple who were tired of having devotees picking flowers out of their yards in the middle of the night. Prabhupada told the devotees to stop stealing flowers and fruit in a letter that got read during morning prasad and then immediately ignored.

 

It is not cow protection as described in the scriptures. Now doesn't it make sense for those preaching cow protection to actually practice cow protection? Example is better than precept.

 

The real question is why are there only a handful of protected cows in America and the West in general? Prabhupada's plan was farms would supply the temples with milk from protected cows.

 

It seems devotees want to enjoy the milk prasad in the name of doing it for Krishna and ignore the part about protecting krishna's cows.

 

Do these devotees think Krishna's is callous to the suffering of the cows because He needs our banana milk offering at night so badly?

 

If you (general you Dasomi) are convinced of your position still then how about proving it by just offering a small amount to krishna and sharing the maha by only taking a few drops? You won't do that because the milk you are offering is really for you, right?

 

In either case as far as I am concerned all the commercial milk drinkers that support the slaughter industry with one side of your mouth by drinking commercial milk (including organic and free range) and then preach to others about cow protection out of the other side should just keep the whole mouth shut on this issue.

 

Milk from protected cows or none at all.

 

Jaya Gopala Jaya Govinda!

[theist]

 

that reminds me of the horrifying ways that a cow is presently treated in most villages of bengal . a few decades back a hindu was bound to keep a cow till her natural death either due to his own moral restrains or social fear . but now , with rapid growth of western ideals there is break down of traditional indian social structure where entire community lived as a greater family , and a growth of small selfish nuclear homes where social pressures and responsibility are not much . hence many poor hindu farmers who cant afford to maintain the animal once its productivity decreases and it grows old , finds it convineint and easy to sell it off to some other person ! now these persons are generally muslim butchers who have no other business with an old cow other than its flesh !! and those poor farmers think their hands are washed clean of all sins after this sale little realising that karmic laws are quite complex !

 

this is quite sad .

 

 

 

 

but reffering back to the topic of milk i think theist's idea has pratical problems . for example where to get such 'natural' milk in modern world ?

Therefore in the Western world at least we must be vegan. It is a small but necessary austerity.

 

 

so where to get pure milk ? and without milk and its products , masoor etc who long can a man live ?

This so-called absolute need for cows milk or death will result is just an Indian myth. This is exactly the same argument the cow slaughters said about meat. They brainwashed everyone to the point that as a child we all thought we had to have meat at every meal.

 

I have been a vegan (with the exception of occasional temple prasad for 38 yrs. app. My health has only greatly improved upon ceasing milk consumption. There is no such thing as a milk deficency.

 

Death will surely come but being a vegan won't hasten it.

[smaranam]

 

. hence many poor hindu farmers who cant afford to maintain the animal once its productivity decreases and it grows old , finds it convineint and easy to sell it off to some other person ! now these persons are generally muslim butchers who have no other business with an old cow other than its flesh !!

 

this is quite sad .

 

in india there are innumerable milkmen who go door to door selling milk procured from their personal home bred animals . many families buy such milk and that is the milk used for puja as packeted pastuerised milk is considered unclean . but there are more problems here ..............in order to make the milk white they add colouring agents , in order to make it foam they are detergent , in order to prevent it from getting damaged quickly they even add formalene !!! this is a greater problem in cities .

 

so where to get pure milk ? and without milk and its products , masoor etc who long can a man live ?

MILKMEN

 

About the milkmen adding contaminants to the milk - yes, very sad. These small scale milkmen should be encouraged with perks by the Indian government , and the need for honesty or else penalty, should be stressed on them. This may also enable them to keep the cows and calf and not sell them to be killed. Or , sell the calf to Goshalas , Cow protection projects, or where farmers need bulls. Again the government can help them with this.

 

Also, is it not true that cow slaughter is illegal in most states except for Kerala and West Bengal - or one of those eastern states ?

 

So why can the law be passed in other states and not here ? Is it due to a large non-Hindu population of meat consumers ?

 

This is what projects like Tamil Nadu based SAVE A COW SAVE THE WORLD - have been trying to do - save the cows from being sold to butchers.

 

Welcome to Gorakshyam Trust

 

Those who live in India can look into any smallest ways of helping them.

 

-------

 

There are plenty of leafy greens, whole grains, sprouted legumes , beans ,lentils , nuts, seeds , especially in the Indian diet, that make things like masoor dal a drop in the ocean .

 

Vitamins B-12 and D can be supplemented.

 

We can discuss vegan diet in health and well-being later.

 

He Govinda He Gopala He Dayalila.

[sambya]

 

MILKMEN

Also, is it not true that cow slaughter is illegal in most states except for Kerala and West Bengal - or one of those eastern states ?

 

So why can the law be passed in other states and not here ? Is it due to a large non-Hindu population of meat consumers ?

 

umm.....im not quite sure but i think it is banned in some states not all . specially the northern states are quite strict about it .

 

in bengal however religion takes a back seat and secular ideas reign . for example if you would go to the northern states you shall find most people very religious .............they might not be spiritual but they practise religion wholeheartedly . but in bengal it is either spiritual people or secular people . an average bengali is not religious and places secular values at a higher place than religious values . so any attempt by the government to stop cow slughter would be treated as a restriction to freedom of an individual(muslims in this case) and hence be frowned upon by most bengalis . and recent communist rule in these two states have also injured hindu values . i remeber westbengal chief minister(he is the grandson of one of the most famous brahmins in 20th century bengal) commenting , " whats the use of learning sanskrit ? are we set to turn our kids into temple priests tingling bells all the time ?! " . now this is shocking ! sanskrit might not be in practical use today but its value as a mother language and scope of research activities are immense . at least he could have recognised that !!

 

this is the condition of bengal !

 

 

There are plenty of leafy greens, whole grains, sprouted legumes , beans ,lentils , nuts, seeds , especially in the Indian diet, that make things like masoor dal a drop in the ocean .

 

but where to get the protiens from ? soya , milk products and masoor dal are already excluded .

[sambya]

 

It in the same line as the stealing money from the "karmis" on "sankirtana" is okay but the victim gets some ajnana-sukriti. never mind this mode of ignorance practice succeeded in turning off the western countries to Krishna consciousness and left Iskcon with the reputation of being a cheating religious cult.

 

A better example would be the stealing of flowers from others property and offering them to Krishna in the name of "It's really Krishna's property and the ownersa get punya from it". I was in Hawai when this uproar came from the neighbors of the krishna temple who were tired of having devotees picking flowers out of their yards in the middle of the night. Prabhupada told the devotees to stop stealing flowers and fruit in a letter that got read during morning prasad and then immediately ignored.

 

 

 

 

well , the scriptures specifically mention the list of flowers that cannot be offered to the lord and flowers stolen from other's garden are considered un-offerable .

 

all scriptures that we find advocates dharma above the rest . vigraha seva also is kept subordinate to the principles of dharma . for it is this dharma thats the central force of mankind . with adhaarmic practises nothing can be of any good . the same goes for lying in name of krishna or for spreading 'krishna consciousness' . a lie remains a lie and subject to karmic laws which injure your spiritual progress . there's no other way round .............and hiding under the banner of krishna is a reputed escape tactics !

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

These small scale milkmen should be encouraged with perks by the Indian government,

 

We shouldn't have to bribe people to be honest, especially when it deals with food contamination. The rest of the world doesn't do that. "If you agree not to put poisonous substances to dilute your milk we will give you bonuses and perks." The priority should be to teach morality to these people, not to pay them off for agreeing not to poison us. The root problem is greed and indifference to the welfare of other people.

 

These type of stories are very common in India and come on the television or in the newspapers regularly. For example some time back I recall a story of people mixing used car oil with mustard oil and selling it in fake packaging as original mustard oil. Another time it was fake medicines being sold by pharmacies with identical looking packaging.

 

When people are willing to risk the lives of their customers just to get some extra money, then they shouldn't be offered perks and bonuses as an incentive. They should be punished severely. Due to corruption this doesn't happen, and people then accept that it is fine to do such activities.

 

The root problem is greed and lack of morality. The solution to the problem needs to be a spiritual solution, or a very strict government that will punish the criminals.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Also, is it not true that cow slaughter is illegal in most states except for Kerala and West Bengal - or one of those eastern states ?

As far as legality in India, there is no such thing as law in the common sense. In Hyderabad there is a mechanized slaughterhouse for killing buffalos, bulls and cows (I believe it is around 20,000 per day or something).

 

The governemnt has given them a license to kill 500 "useless" buffalos per day. But who counts these animals? It is their own staff, and some paid inspectors. Every single worker in that plant receives a salary of thousands of dollars. Why would they be paying common laborers (who normally get $2 a day) the salary of the most experienced doctors? It's because they need to keep everything that happens inside a secret from the rest of the country.

 

There are many cases like this, where we see the law has no interest or power to stop these illegal activities. The politicians are all involved, each receiving their necessary cut of the profits.

[melvin]

 

The governemnt has given them a license to kill 500 "useless" buffalos per day. But who counts these animals? It is their own staff, and some paid inspectors. Every single worker in that plant receives a salary of thousands of dollars. Why would they be paying common laborers (who normally get $2 a day) the salary of the most experienced doctors? It's because they need to keep everything that happens inside a secret from the rest of the country.

 

 

 

 

Jndas, my net take home pay per month as the cebu provincial`s prison doctor is roughly 340 dollars per month or 11 dollars a day. The cebu governor`s salary is 1500 dollars a month. I wonder why politicians like the cebu governor spend say, a couple of million dollars in running for public office when their salary is only that much. With my salary, how can I make both ends meet? Smuggling drugs inside the prison? Nope. There always something that comes up to help me and my family survive. When it comes, I look up towards the sky and say, " Thank you, Lord!" Politicians do not do that. When it comes, they`d say, " Thanks! Your business permit has been approved."

[smaranam]

 

The root problem is greed and lack of morality. The solution to the problem needs to be a spiritual solution, or a very strict government that will punish the criminals.

 

There is no doubt that spiritual solution as well as some material consequence is required, for which someone has to spend time being a detective and catch them red-handed.

 

However, you are right. Its not entirely true that poverty , hardships and need for survival is driving them to dishonest means.

 

Those were the lines on which i was thinking - what drives them to do such things, and gratitude along with better life might change dishonesty into honesty .

 

While this may actually be true in some cases, in many it seems like even after receiving a secure life some resort to such means for greed. They certainly do not care for welfare of others.

 

Just another reminder that it is Kali Yuga.

[raghu]

 

Which is more important to you? Drinking milk from enslaved, mistreated and ultimately slaughtered cows or foregoing the drinking of such milk until it can be obtained from protected cows?

 

 

I am so tired of this phony talk of the cow as our 'Blessed Mother' etc. etc. by people who support the enslavement and ultimate slaughter of said "Mothers".

 

 

Stop supporting and promoting cow slaughter Kurma das (not the chef).

 

If drinking milk is equal to supporting the "enslavement and ultimate slaughter" of cows then....

 

Was Prabhupada a supporter of enslavement and ultimate slaughter of cows?

[OmHari]

 

 

If drinking milk is equal to supporting the "enslavement and ultimate slaughter" of cows then....

 

Was Prabhupada a supporter of enslavement and ultimate slaughter of cows?

 

 

Raghuji, HOW can you even pose a question like this!

 

How can you say this about Prabhupada! With His mercy, many people accepted vegetarianism in the west. He was AGAINST slaughter of ANY animals, what to speak of our mother Cows. In fact, He was the one who single handedly propagated to STOP all these killings in western world. How Kripaalu(merciful) of Him!

 

Drinking milk is NOT equal to slaughter.

It is quite the contrary.

 

We can live WITHOUT having to slaughter ANY animals. This is the essence of society where cow protection is given utmost importance and priority.

 

In fact, Srila Prabhupada said that cows should be protected, milk should be drawn from the cows, and this milk should be prepared in various ways. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, in His instructions of Bhagavad-Gita, advises go-raksya, which means cow protection But in Kali-yuga, instead of drinking milk, people prefer to slaughter an animal and eat its flesh..

 

 

There is NO need of cold blooded killing of animals.

 

 

Get the point?

[primate]

 

...

Drinking milk is NOT equal to slaughter.

It is quite the contrary.

 

We can live WITHOUT having to slaughter ANY animals. This is the essence of society where cow protection is given utmost importance and priority.

...

 

By your logic we can also eat eggs. Commercially available chicken eggs are not vitalized, and 'technically' they are just a product of the chicken 'menstruation-cycle'. So we can eat them without killing an animal..

[OmHari]

 

By your logic we can also eat eggs. Commercially available chicken eggs are not vitalized, and 'technically' they are just a product of the chicken 'menstruation-cycle'. So we can eat them without killing an animal..

 

Egg cannnot be considered as vegetarian because its meat and it comes from birds and it will develop into birds if not COMMERCIALISED.

 

If you are vegetarian, you dont eat meat including meat of fish and eggs.

If you consume eggs, you are OVOvegetarian(a misleading term) , NOT vegetarian.

 

Yes its part of birds menstruation cycle and also eggs comes out from the place where the birds do poop. You heard me right.

 

 

Life takes its form beggining with eggs, if not eaten, will develop into bird.

 

 

Just for your information ,

 

Do you know how the birds are treated for POULTRY industry ?

 

Female chicks are sold to egg producers to begin their careers as 'layers', their beaks and sometimes toes are clipped .

 

Do you know they even cut their beaks, so that they will not peck, put them narrowly confined in CAGE , this cage environment of egg producing does not permit birds to roam,so they cannot fly,move or even stretch their wings.

 

And what happens to male chicks?

 

As male chicks are "worthless "(for egg-type hatcheries) they are collected when hatched and are put in plastic bags where they slowly suffocated to dead

 

Vegetarians dont support poultry. And as a vegetarian, I dont support poultry.

 

 

 

 

There are Health reasons as well not to eat eggs:

 

Egg intake diversely affects the body's cholesterol, increases cardiovascular risk in diabetic patients, Salmonella enteritidis and Salmonella typhimurium infections due to egg consumptions are major concerns also consumption of eggs has been linked to an increased risk of Type 2 diabetes in both men and women.

Edited July 20, 2009 by OmHari

[raghu]

 

Raghuji, HOW can you even pose a question like this!

 

Because it logically follows from Theist's implied statement that those who purchase milk support the torture and enslavement of cows.

 

If the conclusion of the statement is unacceptable, then the statement should be retracted.

 

 

How can you say this about Prabhupada! With His mercy, many people accepted vegetarianism in the west. He was AGAINST slaughter of ANY animals, what to speak of our mother Cows. In fact, He was the one who single handedly propagated to STOP all these killings in western world. How Kripaalu(merciful) of Him!

 

Drinking milk is NOT equal to slaughter.

It is quite the contrary.

 

I agree. So tell that to Theist. His exact words earlier in this thread were, "I am so tired of this phony talk of the cow as our 'Blessed Mother' etc. etc. by people who support the enslavement and ultimate slaughter of said "Mothers"."

[OmHari]

Its quite surprising , you didnt get what was implied in the previous posts.Let me ask you only one question:

 

If there a murder-free, meat-free,compassionate, healthy and spiritual life possible without having to KILL any animals, why is there a need for all these cold blooded slaughtering?

Human beings dont NEED to kill animals in order to remain "healthy" or to "progress". A highly civilized society is not the one that develops in terms of material gains, by slaughtering animals, and churning out everything mother Earth has to offer to us. Society can only progress when we as humans learn to live in harmony not only within ourselves but with our relation to our mother Earth.

 

Some vaishnav families that I know, just one or two generations back, did not have oil tempering for preparing food, neither did they have tea, coffee, sugar, etc as it was not sattvic. The milk they drank was mainly from their own cows or goats, not the one from factories like these days. All this only few decades ago in India, what to speak of centuries before.

So the milk taken from cows who are not treated with love, but rather tortured inside factories, is not Sattvic, not in goodness, please forgive me.

DO you know where lies the real issue? The problem in the world now is that

protection of cows is not the priority but how to use her, in order to produce more, and then kill for greedy production factories, leather, meat and so on...This is not the way of a civilised society.

 

 

 

We need to protect our animals our cows before its late. It is an emergency. A PANDEMIC , we ALL must do something about it NOW.

We dont need to kill our cows or any other animals in order to progress, this wisdom was long inculcated in the minds of those who were spiritually advanced.

 

All this brutal killing of animals, depletion of nature's resources will not lead to any advancement even materially what to speak of spiritually.

Edited July 20, 2009 by OmHari

[raghu]

I asked a very simple question, and the answer is also very simple. Let me therefore ask it a different way.

 

Since Sri Prabhupada's approach to things is generally taken by Hare Krishnas to be valid, and since Theist argues that people who drink milk are enabling the torture and slaughter of cows, and since Sri Prabhupada did consume milk in the United States and allowed its use in his temples....

 

Are all milk drinkers including Sri Prabhupada guilty of enabling cow torture, or are none of them guilty by the very fact of consuming milk?

 

You can't have it both ways, i.e. milk drinking is wrong for most people but not for Prabhupada. That is hypocrisy.

[OmHari]

The problem in the world now is that

protection of cows is not the priority but how to use her, in order to produce more do you hear that?

[smaranam]

 

Since Sri Prabhupada's approach to things is generally taken by Hare Krishnas to be valid, and since Theist argues that people who drink milk are enabling the torture and slaughter of cows, and since Sri Prabhupada did consume milk in the United States and allowed its use in his temples....

 

Are all milk drinkers including Sri Prabhupada guilty of enabling cow torture, or are none of them guilty by the very fact of consuming milk?

 

You can't have it both ways, i.e. milk drinking is wrong for most people but not for Prabhupada. That is hypocrisy.

 

Respected members and readers,

 

With due respect to all sentiments, thoughts and reasonings from all sides ....

 

Srila Prabhupad traveled to the US on ship surviving nausea , sea-sickness and heart attack. On order of his Guru he spread the Vedic knowledge of the Supreme, Krshna, in the western world. He knew he had very little time left in this body to do this herculean task. He was about 70. "Krshna, where have You brought me ? I am a puppet in your hands. Please make me dance make me dance make me dance".

 

He had to

- give core knowledge to young Americans,

- get his books published

- establish dieties, temples, and regular temple programs,

- establish a book distribution channel to be kept running

- give starting impetus for Cow Protection farms , first convey its importance ...

 

in such a short time. His disciples in the west and India did very well, overall, coming up to speed on all this.

 

If his goal was that temples get milk supply from these farms, waiting for the farms to start first would be like putting the cart before the horse.

He would get caught up in a perpetual chicken-and-egg problem , and ISKCON may not have been all that it is today.

 

He had to forgo some temporary creases like commercial milk, refined bone-processed sugar, to get the big chariot running.

 

We can say it was his mercy that he left these creases , just like Canto 11 and 12 of the Bhagvat, to his descendants.

Once a disciple said "But Bhaktivinod Thakur did not finish his book."

To which SP said "We are descendants of Bhaktivinod Thakur. It is his mercy that he left some work for us. Do you think he could not have finished it ? He is Vaishnav. All-powerful."

 

 

Now, decades later, these things can be addressed slowly with more cow protection especially for temples - not that temples should turn vegan. no !

 

What the vegan devotees are saying is that if we do nothing and simply accept commercial milk, we are not moving forward towards the goal that the Guru set.

 

Please forgive and correct any misconceptions i may have had about this.

 

Radhe Radhe

Hare Krshna

Jai Sri Krshna

Edited July 21, 2009 by smaranam

[OmHari]

Very nice post. I couldnt have explained it better. Haribol