Purity and temple issues - help please!

[MikeMalaysia]

For months I haven't been to the temple or set foot in the puja room at home. Yes, I'm very busy but I'm also worried about purity issues. I have performed some impure actions in my room, and I'm worried that my clothes and stuff aren't pure so I don't go to the temple. But I want to be more religious and start going to the temple regularly again. Please help me out with these issues.

 

1. What causes an object to become defiled in Hinduism? Are there any specific substances or things which make something defiled?

 

2. If something does become defiled, what can purify it? I bought some Ganga water from an Indian shop in KL - will this purify everything it touches? What if it isn't really Ganga water but just a ripoff?

 

3. You're supposed to wear "clean clothes" before entering a temple or prayer room. Can you be more specific about what "clean" means? Does it mean that your clothes have be freshly washed or what?

 

4. If you commit certain sins, does this make everything you're wearing impure?

 

5. I washed my dhoti and kurta with soap which may have animal fat. My wife's grandparents had the same kind of soap, and they are religious Hindus (but not vegetarians). Does this mean that the kurta and dhoti can never be worn into a temple again, or will a simple wash with vegetarian soap fix it? Would most dhobi (laundry) soap from India contain animal fat?

 

Please help me out with this. I have obsessive tendencies and I don't want to defile the local temple.

[kshama]

Dear MikeMalaysia,

 

Perhaps if you describe further what is ''impure actions'' as per your understanding, learned members here would get a clear picture of the situation and prescribe purification methods necessary.

 

This step will surely erase misconception that you have, if any. It is very odd to hear people do not enter pooja room or go to temple for months as a consequence of performing certain actions. It is very likely people may come up with suggestions that aren't needed at all, as they are hazy about the real situation.

 

Please pardon for this intrusion in this thread. Namaste.

[sambya]

first of all impurity is in our minds . if we are mentally impure no amout of physical purity can make us pure . mental impurity can be anything from sexual thoughts to criminal thoughts depending on the position in life . for example for a sadhu sexual thoughts is highly impure and for a grihasta it is not so impure .

 

having said that it should also be noted that physical purity leads to gradual mental purity . both are interconnected . you must have noticed how relaxing and refreshing it feels after taking a bath . you mind is more conducive to concentration at that stage . therefore physical purity also comes in , in a great way !!

 

regular bath and personal hygine is a must . it preferrable to wear washed clothes while entering puja room or a temple . various body fluids and secretions have contaminative powers as per hindu scirptures . thats why a pujari first finishes off with duties of nature and takes a bath , then wears washed clothes and then utter the names of lord and perform gayatri to cleanse himself inside out !

 

ganga water brahma-swaroop . each and every saint of india have attested to that . but there must be belief in it divine powers . also , ganga water cannot be used as an excuse for not washing !

 

most importantly dont get too obssesive with small do's and dont's like brands of soap etc . innumerable indians have such tendencies .....they are dangerous impediments towards spirituality .

 

just take a bath , wear washed clothes , think of lord , take his name in mouth and set off towards the temple . and when you reach there take some small gifts (garland, flowers,sweets) as you would to your loved ones . one should not have a darshan of god and sadhu with empty hands .

 

 

thats all....

[Kali_Upasaka]

There is no pre condition for visiting the temple. No conditions at all. Purity is in the mind. What is required is devotion/Bhakthi.

There is no action whatsoever which can take away your access to GOD.

 

Bath, clean clothes, and so on are man made conditions which GOD does not approve.

 

Please read the stories of the Bhakthas which will make this clear. You can not be a bigger sinner than Bilvamangala. Chandalas are as dear to GOD as Brahmins. There are many stories in our scriptures which emphasize this.

 

Walk into the temple and pray to GOD. He is anxiously waiting for you.

GOD Bless you.

[kshama]

Kali_upasaka ji and Sambya Ji had given a beautiful yet resonant explanations on purity. I do think there should be no confusions for you now, MikeMalaysia Ji. If at all you feel, that you need to ask more, please be more specific so that Kali_upasaka Ji, Sambya Ji or any other spiritually knowledgeable/spiritually inclined members can give their view that caters your questions well.

[MikeMalaysia]

 

Dear MikeMalaysia,

 

Perhaps if you describe further what is ''impure actions'' as per your understanding, learned members here would get a clear picture of the situation and prescribe purification methods necessary

 

In order to avoid offending any members of this forum, I will use the terminology that Catholics use to describe such acts: "self-abuse" or "sins of impurity with oneself". Hopefully you get the picture. I seem to have some obsession that the bodily fluid resulting from such an act is impure and contaminating, and I also feel that it sort of contaminates the room.

 

When I followed Gaudiya Vaishnavism, I was told that the Hare Krishna Maha-Mantra purified anything. After that, if I thought that anything was impure, I would chant the Hare Krishna Maha-Mantra over it. Now that I am a Saivite, I don't have recourse to such a practice anymore. Do Saivites believe that Om Namah Sivaya has the same properties (i.e. it purifies anything)? What about the Gayatri Mantra?

 

This step will surely erase misconception that you have, if any. It is very odd to hear people do not enter pooja room or go to temple for months as a consequence of performing certain actions. It is very likely people may come up with suggestions that aren't needed at all, as they are hazy about the real situation.

 

The main reason that I haven't been going to the temple or entering the puja room is that I work six days a week. I used to light the lamp in the puja room in the evening, and now I don't finish work until 10pm most nights. The one day I have off (Friday), I usually spend with my wife doing things together since I don't see a lot of her during the week.

 

 

most importantly dont get too obssesive with small do's and dont's like brands of soap etc . innumerable indians have such tendencies .....they are dangerous impediments towards spirituality .

 

First of all, this is dhobi soap we're referring to, which is used for handwashing clothes. I don't want to contaminate my dhoti and kurta that I wear to the temple by putting them in with ordinary clothes in the wash. Most soap in the West (and Malaysia) is made with animal fat. I was under the impression that tamasic substances are to be kept out of a temple. Since I wasn't sure that the soap didn't have animal fat, I didn't use the dhoti or kurta since it was washed with that soap. I recently bought some other soap, and a Malaysian Indian man at the shop said that it was vegetarian (it was from India). Are most dhobi soaps from India made with animal fat or are they vegetarian?

 

Would taking soap made with animal fat into a temple desecrate it? I remember on New Year's Day I had helped out at a temple in KL, serving food. I spilled some of the dhal on my dhoti, so I went to the nearby supermarket, bought some dhobi soap (Fab brand) and went upstairs in the neighbouring mini shopping complex to the bathroom. I washed the dhoti and went back to the temple with it still wet (but I didn't take the soap with me). Will the temple be desecrated? I really don't want to be responsible for the desecration of a temple.

 

I'm probably being silly asking these questions, but I have heard of temples being re-consecrated for the sole reason that a non-Hindu Westerner entered them.

 

Thanks for all your help, guys.

[kshama]

Dear MikeMalaysia,

 

I understand your source of concern. Since this is quite a delicate issue, I leave it to senior members like Kali_upasaka Ji or any other members that can give their opinions regarding this matter. Namaste.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

1. What causes an object to become defiled in Hinduism? Are there any specific substances or things which make something defiled?

 

In the strict sense, clothes become considered unclean from many different things. For example sleeping is considered unclean. If you sleep in your clothes then they become unclean. Your bed is considered unclean, so you shouldn't place clean clothes on the bed. In strict brahmana families in South India, they will have a special clothes line which is very high, out of reach, so that no one will touch the washed clothes and make them unclean. As soon as they take bath, they will bring the clothes down with a long stick and wear them, and then go to the puja room.

 

I am not suggesting being like that, but just trying to show one side of it. When we keep ourselves clean before entering a temple or worshiping God, it is an offering to Him. We are not trying to be clean because we enjoy being clean, but because we have so much respect and love for God we feel we should approach him in a respectable and pure manner.

 

The fact that God is completely pure is another concept all together. We present our selves before God in a pure manner as an offering and a sign of respect to him, not because we think he will become unclean otherwise.

 

We also benefit by external purity. It creates a conducive atmosphere for meditation and puja. External purity helps lead us to internal purity.

 

Overall there are some things that are more important than being clean, and one of them would be the need to pray to God and worship Him. If someone is avoiding to worship God because of thinking they are unclean, then I would suggest they should first start worshipping God somehow or other, and that will help them to become pure and clean both externally and internally gradually over time.

 

 

2. If something does become defiled, what can purify it? I bought some Ganga water from an Indian shop in KL - will this purify everything it touches? What if it isn't really Ganga water but just a ripoff?

 

Generally just washing the item with water and soap is enough. I don't really suggest trying to purify something that is unclean through a ritualistic process like sprinkling Ganga water. It is true that Ganga water can purify anything, but it does not physically remove the dirt. Suppose a bird has passed on your shirt. Sprinkling Ganga water doesn't remove the dirt, so the physical qualities of the shirt remain. Better is to always wash the item with water, and if necessary soap.

 

 

3. You're supposed to wear "clean clothes" before entering a temple or prayer room. Can you be more specific about what "clean" means? Does it mean that your clothes have be freshly washed or what?

 

Generally in India people wear freshly washed clothes each morning. If for some reason that isn't possible, then at least the clothes should not have been worn in the bed. If it is too much trouble to wash your clothes every day, then keep a separate dhoti only for worshipping God. After taking bath, wear the dhoti like a lungi, and do your morning worship. Then fold the dhoti and keep it on a clean shelf for use again the next day. If you are only wearing the cloth for a short time during worship, then it can be used again if there is no other alternative. But if doing this you shouldn't wear it around the house or eat while wearing it.

 

 

4. If you commit certain sins, does this make everything you're wearing impure?

 

Generally, yes. But you can always prayer to God in your heart and chant his name regardless of whether we are clean or unclean.

 

 

5. I washed my dhoti and kurta with soap which may have animal fat. My wife's grandparents had the same kind of soap, and they are religious Hindus (but not vegetarians). Does this mean that the kurta and dhoti can never be worn into a temple again, or will a simple wash with vegetarian soap fix it? Would most dhobi (laundry) soap from India contain animal fat?

I would say just wash it again and try to avoid using soap with animal fat in the future. Nowadays in India people are using factory products like Surf powder, though dhobis probably use a solid bar of soap. The ones that I am familiar with do not contain animal fat.

[MikeMalaysia]

 

In the strict sense, clothes become considered unclean from many different things. For example sleeping is considered unclean. If you sleep in your clothes then they become unclean. Your bed is considered unclean, so you shouldn't place clean clothes on the bed. In strict brahmana families in South India, they will have a special clothes line which is very high, out of reach, so that no one will touch the washed clothes and make them unclean. As soon as they take bath, they will bring the clothes down with a long stick and wear them, and then go to the puja room.

 

I am not suggesting being like that, but just trying to show one side of it. When we keep ourselves clean before entering a temple or worshiping God, it is an offering to Him. We are not trying to be clean because we enjoy being clean, but because we have so much respect and love for God we feel we should approach him in a respectable and pure manner.

 

I used to follow that when I was a Vaishnava - anything you touch in the morning becomes unclean like your body. I still do not prepare my clothes in the morning before I have a shower.

 

 

The fact that God is completely pure is another concept all together. We present our selves before God in a pure manner as an offering and a sign of respect to him, not because we think he will become unclean otherwise.

 

Does this mean that His temples are completely pure as well and cannot be defiled or desecrated?

 

 

Overall there are some things that are more important than being clean, and one of them would be the need to pray to God and worship Him. If someone is avoiding to worship God because of thinking they are unclean, then I would suggest they should first start worshipping God somehow or other, and that will help them to become pure and clean both externally and internally gradually over time.

 

I try to pray to Lord Ganesha every night before I go to bed (although I usually just ask Him to protect me from bad dreams). I do pray at times when I'm doing other things, though.

 

 

Generally just washing the item with water and soap is enough. I don't really suggest trying to purify something that is unclean through a ritualistic process like sprinkling Ganga water. It is true that Ganga water can purify anything, but it does not physically remove the dirt. Suppose a bird has passed on your shirt. Sprinkling Ganga water doesn't remove the dirt, so the physical qualities of the shirt remain. Better is to always wash the item with water, and if necessary soap.

 

I understand. Ganga water does not remove dirt. I'm talking about spiritual purity here. For example, if my wife touched something when she had her period, would the Ganga water purify it if it wasn't dirty in other ways?

 

 

Generally in India people wear freshly washed clothes each morning. If for some reason that isn't possible, then at least the clothes should not have been worn in the bed. If it is too much trouble to wash your clothes every day, then keep a separate dhoti only for worshipping God. After taking bath, wear the dhoti like a lungi, and do your morning worship. Then fold the dhoti and keep it on a clean shelf for use again the next day. If you are only wearing the cloth for a short time during worship, then it can be used again if there is no other alternative. But if doing this you shouldn't wear it around the house or eat while wearing it.

 

That sounds like a good idea. Can the same dhoti also be worn to the temple?

 

I would say just wash it again and try to avoid using soap with animal fat in the future. Nowadays in India people are using factory products like Surf powder, though dhobis probably use a solid bar of soap. The ones that I am familiar with do not contain animal fat.

 

Yes, I use a solid bar of soap. Can you tell me some Indian brands of dhobi soap that don't have animal fat (100% vegetarian)?

 

Jahnava Nitai Das, are you a Vaishnava? It seems so from your name and the links that you post in your signature. While I do value your input, I'd also like to hear from some Saivites regarding this matter, since I am an a Saivite and not a Vaishnava.

 

Pranams,

 

Michael.

[chandu_69]

This is With regards to soap and detergents info required by Mike:

 

Laundry detergents don't have animal fat in them.The surfactants used are derived from Palmoil or petroleum products.

 

Bath soaps do contain animal fat derived products.one has to check the indivindual brands.

check for Indian soap makers like godrej. also IFFCO has number of brands(Royal Lather, Savannah , Lace & Eva) in malaysia.

[sambya]

 

 

I understand. Ganga water does not remove dirt. I'm talking about spiritual purity here. For example, if my wife touched something when she had her period, would the Ganga water purify it if it wasn't dirty in other ways?

 

in india the traditional practice for any women in her periods is to refrain from doing anything connected with diety worship . even her clothings are considered impure for the time being . ganga water cannot 'purify' her in those days .

 

 

 

 

That sounds like a good idea. Can the same dhoti also be worn to the temple?

yes , of course , but after travelling through the dusty streets it should be washed again . in other words its preferable to keep that dhoti for wearing inside the house .

 

 

 

 

one more thing................ ordinary visit to a temple should not require so much restrictions . it is a different thing when you are entering the garbhagriha or touching the deity . strict regulations should be maintened as a sign of respect to deity and the public tradition . in your home however you can definitely be less stern . make it a point to sit down and pray everyday withut fail . its better to do a puja in dirty clothes(at your home ---- assuming you didnt do a prana-pratishtha) than not to do it atall. perhaps you could begin by thoroughly washing the hands , feet and face and by draping the dhoti around and by sprinkling some ganga water over your head .

[Kali_Upasaka]

I was just wondering how may people in the temple I visit every day would fit into your idea of cleanliness. None including the priests. Of course I am talking about a famous temple in Bengal.

 

Things are different in South India. Since the temples in Malaysia are all Tamil temples, the practices and belief systems are those prevalent in Tamil Nadu. The Siva temples. Having lived in Tamil Nadu for a long time, I think I can answer your questions based on the practices in Tamil Nadu.

 

1. The majority of the devotees in Tamil Nadu no longer wear a dhothi while visiting the temple. The dhothi is insisted upon only in Kerala and Kanyakumari district of Tamil Nadu. Only the priests wear a dhothi.

 

2. Only the priests follow the rules of cleanliness. Even here there has a lot of laxity in the last two decades.

 

3. If you have a bath and wear fresh clothes you are considered clean. Clothes from the washerman/laundry are also considered clean.

 

4. Then they have a rule that Silk is exempt from the rules in that it is considered always clean. Nothing can taint it. Pattu it is called in Tamil. Pattu is used and reused without being washed.

 

My suggestion would be to get a Pattu, wear it and walk into the temple. No fear of being unclean.

 

You know in Kerala the priest has his bath in the temple tank. He dries himself with a Kerala towel called Thuvarthu. Then he washes his koupeenam and the towel in the pond. Wears them wet and goes into the temple. This is the standard which was prevalent and still continues in most temples.

 

But even here the devotee has a bath, wears a clean dhothi and goes to the temple. The dhothi is mostly washed by the washerman or the laundry.

 

No one in India bothers about the animal content of the washing soap. Indians use multinational brands from Proctor and Gamble and other companies.

 

Talking about beliefs, I recall some of my colleagues searching for houses with wells long time back. They needed a well because the orthodox Brahmins will bathe only in well water. That too they draw the water themselves and pour it over the head. Tap water is taboo.

 

I have neighbors who gets well water delivered by some one every day for cooking. The extreme case is that of the gentleman who sends a servant every day to get fresh Ganga water from the river.

 

It is all a matter of belief. The Saiva Agamas (followed by all Saivites) do not lay down any of these rules.

[kshama]

 

Originally Posted by MikeMalaysia: Does this mean that His temples are completely pure as well and cannot be defiled or desecrated?

God is epitome of goodness. How could He that is symbol of purity, can turn impure, through actions by people like you, me and others? Are we that powerful? Going to temple, a person needs good intentions, maintain cleanliness i.e. physical and mentally and have utmost faith in Him.

 

About soap. I think in Malaysia, if you have a look in certain parts of town, where there are Indian Shops...i.e. cash and carry departmental stores, Primas, and the likes etc....soaps and detergents that is 100% no animal fat or Vegan is there...normally it is made by Malaysian Indian companies. You have to scout around.

 

Most temples in Malaysia welcome anyone, as long you wear decent clothes and you are having good intentions. This is how I feel. Namaste.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

I understand. Ganga water does not remove dirt. I'm talking about spiritual purity here. For example, if my wife touched something when she had her period, would the Ganga water purify it if it wasn't dirty in other ways?

The contamination you get when you are touched by an impure person is generally not a physical dirt, as such the ganga water will purify yourself by sprinkling it on you. There is a distinction between purifying and cleaning. Purifying refers to a subtle energy that is removed, whereas cleaning refers to removal of physical dirt. Usually some types of physical dirt also create the presence of a subtle impure energy. Thus if you purify yourself but do not remove the dirt, the impurity will again be present automatically. In cases where it is only the subtle presence of negative energy, ganga water will be sufficient to remove it and make you pure.

 

Generally puja is done early in the morning before we have many worldy interactions which may cause us to be impure or dirty. The evening puja is usually performed after bathing if possible. In both situations one will not have to worry about being unclean.

 

Swami Shivananda gives nice instructions on cleanliness in his books, and stresses that it is most important to take a mala and chant Gods name every day. He says even if you cannot take bath, just wash you hands, feet, face, and brush your teeth, then take the mala and chant. In his view the chanting of God's name in a semi-unclean state is important enough to do rather than avoiding it due to being unclean.

 

As most know, Swami Shivananda comes in the advaita line, but is very fond of bhakti sadhanas.

[MikeMalaysia]

 

3. If you have a bath and wear fresh clothes you are considered clean. Clothes from the washerman/laundry are also considered clean.

 

4. Then they have a rule that Silk is exempt from the rules in that it is considered always clean. Nothing can taint it. Pattu it is called in Tamil. Pattu is used and reused without being washed.

 

My suggestion would be to get a Pattu, wear it and walk into the temple. No fear of being unclean.

 

This sounds like a good idea. I'll certainly have a look at silk Kurta Shalwar suits. What about underwear? They don't make silk underwear.

 

I have a condition where urine leaks out. Would this make me unclean and stop me from entering the temple?

 

 

 

It is all a matter of belief. The Saiva Agamas (followed by all Saivites) do not lay down any of these rules.

 

So why are they followed then? Where do such rules come from?

 

 

About soap. I think in Malaysia, if you have a look in certain parts of town, where there are Indian Shops...i.e. cash and carry departmental stores, Primas, and the likes etc....soaps and detergents that is 100% no animal fat or Vegan is there...normally it is made by Malaysian Indian companies. You have to scout around.

 

I had a look in some Indian shops today in Leboh Ampang. One had some soap which said that it was made from vegetable oils. Does that mean that there is no animal fat at all? What about the glycerin? There was Malay writing on the packet so I'm assuming that it is made in Malaysia, not India.

[MikeMalaysia]

Sorry, repeat post.

[kshama]

Dear MikeMalaysia Ji,

 

There is vegetable glycerine, that is made from vegetable oils. I am sure there are non-animal byproduct soaps out there in your place, I mean in Indian cash and carries. I vaguely remember, there were ads about such soaps in Tamil radio stations in Malaysia almost every week some time back. I just do not know much about the shops in Leboh Ampang. Namaste

[dev singh]

what impurity is there that the name of god cannot purify ?

[Smiley]

Regarding that condition where urine leaks out - of course you should wear a paper or cotton barrier between your body and your underwear of sufficient thickness to get you through a temple visit. As said before, don't let anything keep you from the temple; the Supreme can only ask for our best.

 

 

 

This sounds like a good idea. I'll certainly have a look at silk Kurta Shalwar suits. What about underwear? They don't make silk underwear.

 

I have a condition where urine leaks out. Would this make me unclean and stop me from entering the temple?

 

 

 

 

So why are they followed then? Where do such rules come from?

 

 

 

I had a look in some Indian shops today in Leboh Ampang. One had some soap which said that it was made from vegetable oils. Does that mean that there is no animal fat at all? What about the glycerin? There was Malay writing on the packet so I'm assuming that it is made in Malaysia, not India.

[Kali_Upasaka]

It happens that some times when you want to visit a temple, you feel a sort of reluctance to do it. It does happen to all the people. I have felt it. I have seen my friends and family members feel it. Does not happen all the time. But it does happen occasionally.

 

May be you could call it the play of Asuric forces which try to prevent you from reaching to GOD.

 

What are these forces? Ego and Pride among others.

 

So Mike what you are undergoing is only a normal reaction. We always try to justify this with many reasons.

 

Stop thinking about it and start visiting the temples.

 

GOD Bless You.