Onion and Garlic - vedic view

[chandu_69]

 

Have these people ever wondered whether the Holy wars they are permitted to wage could be symbolic ?

 

The answer is No.They read the Quran's interpretation give in Tafsirs and hadiths which contain muhammad's actions and his interpretations of quranic verses.It seems nobody suggested to them they should not take Muhammad's word at face value.

Go through the tafsir at Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Home

and here is the tafsir page for Jihad

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Shirk is worse than Killing

 

It says Shirk is worse than killing.Shirk is associating partners with Allah,in plain english it means worshipping anybody besides Allah.Go through the verses .

[smaranam]

 

The answer is No.They read the Quran's interpretation give in Tafsirs and hadiths which contain muhammad's actions and his interpretations of quranic verses.It seems nobody suggested to them they should not take Muhammad's word at face value.

Go through the tafsir at Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Home

and here is the tafsir page for Jihad

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Shirk is worse than Killing

 

It says Shirk is worse than killing.Shirk is associating partners with Allah,in plain english it means worshipping anybody besides Allah.Go through the verses .

 

Thanks for the links , Chanduji. I shall look into them more.

 

This is what strikes out at first glance :

 

1. Shirk being worse than killing is for Allah to judge, not for people to take action i.e. to kill the 'Shirkers', starting with deciding who is commiting Shirk in the first place.

 

2. This page :

 

The Command to fight Those Who fight Muslims and killing Them wherever They are found

 

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - The Command to fight Those Who fight Muslims and killing Them wherever They are found

 

And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you,)

Abu Al-`Aliyah said, "This was the first Ayah about fighting that was revealed in Al-Madinah. Ever since it was revealed, Allah's Messenger used to fight only those who fought him and avoid non-combatants. Later, Surat Bara'ah (chapter 9 in the Qur'an) was revealed.'' `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said similarly, then he said that this was later abrogated by the Ayah:

(then kill them wherever you find them) (9:5).

However, this statement is not plausible, because Allah's statement:

...those who fight you) applies only to fighting the enemies who are engaged in fighting Islam and its people. So the Ayah means, `Fight those who fight you', just as Allah said (in another Ayah):

(And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.) meaning, `Your energy should be spent on fighting them, just as their energy is spent on fighting you, and on expelling them from the areas from which they have expelled you, as a law of equality in punishment.'

 

(but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.)

 

This Ayah means, `Fight for the sake of Allah and do not be transgressors,' such as, by committing prohibitions. Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah), "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit.''

 

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HOW DOES THE ABOVE EXPLAIN WHY AURANGZEB AND MUGHULS RAIDED BHARAT ?

 

Doesn't the Quran forbid fighting for land, power and fame ? and only in Allah's name ?

 

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At first glance it tells me that modern terrorism is mixed with political and social greed for power, recruiting young, potential Muslim fanatics from behind the scenes.

 

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I APOLOGIZE TO FORUM READERS AND ADMINISTRATORS FOR ADDING ALL THIS DIVERGENCE FROM HINDU PHILOSOPHIES. Please delete if it is inappropriate.

[smaranam]

Another Good Place - URL : kill

 

“There is a declaration of immunity from Allah and His Messenger to those of the pagans with whom you have contracted mutual alliances. Go then, for four months, to and fro throughout the land. But know that you cannot frustrate Allah that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.” [surah al-Tawbah: 1-2]


 

“Except for those pagans with whom you have entered into a covenant and who then do not break their covenant at all nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill your engagements with them until the end of their term, for Allah loves the righteous.” [surah al-Tawbah: 4]

 

We have demonstrated that it is a principle in Islam that there is no compulsion in religion and we have discussed the objectives of jihad. Now, we shall turn our attentions to some texts that are often misunderstood.



One of these is the verse:

 

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them, for Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.” [surah al-Tawbah: 5]

 

The people being referred to by this verse are the pagan Arabs who had been waging war against the Prophet (peace be upon him) and who had broken their covenant and treaties with him. This verse is not speaking about the other pagan Arabs who did not break their treaties and take up arms against the Muslims. It is also most definitely not speaking about the Jews or Christians, or, for that matter, the pagans who were living outside of Arabia.

[chandu_69]

Smaranam,

 

You should have some patience while dealing with a serious theology matter

 

 

HOW DOES THE ABOVE EXPLAIN WHY AURANGZEB AND MUGHULS RAIDED BHARAT ?

If you have persisted in continuing reading the tafsir and browsed to the next page(www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=234) you would have found who are to be fought.

 

quote

 

Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah.

 

unquote..

 

So, bharath is a legitimate target because they disbelieved in Muhammad's Allah.Got it?

continuing with the next line.

 

"Fight, but do not steal (from the captured goods)"

Don't steal means wait till the BOOTY is distributed(chapter 8) by muhammad.

[chandu_69]

 

Another Good Place - URL : kill

 

“There is a declaration of immunity from Allah and His Messenger to those of the pagans with whom you have contracted mutual alliances.

 

Immunity is for muhammad from obliging the treaty of no war.

 

Go then, for four months, to and fro throughout the land. But know that you cannot frustrate Allah that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.” [surah al-Tawbah: 1-2]


.

 

Did you understand that Allah will cover the unbelievers with shame with the help of muslims.

 

 

 




.We have demonstrated that it is a principle in Islam that there is no compulsion in religion and we have discussed the objectives of jihad. Now, we shall turn our attentions to some texts that are often misunderstood.



.

 

Correct .nobody is compelled or tortured to become muslim but those who reject Allah will be put to death.They can escape death if they quote 9:5 repent, and

establish regular prayers (To allah obviously) unquote..




“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight(//Slay is the word//) the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them, for Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.” [surah al-Tawbah: 5]

 

The people being referred to by this verse are the pagan Arabs who had been waging war against the Prophet (peace be upon him) and who had broken their covenant and treaties with him.This verse is not speaking about the other pagan Arabs who did not break their treaties and take up arms against the Muslims.


 

The so called Pagan arabs waging a war against muslims means not accepting Muhammad as Allah's messenger.The pagan(qureshi) arabs didn't fight with muhammad.they simply expelled him.

 




It is also most definitely not speaking about the Jews or Christians, or, for that matter, the pagans who were living outside of Arabia.

That is correct.9:5 is not speaking about christians or Jews.There is another verse that deals with them specifically.

that is 9:29

09.029

Y: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel

themselves subdued.

 

The next page deals with who are the enemies of Muslims.

[chandu_69]

Tafsir continues:Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Shirk is worse than Killing

 

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:

 

Note//disbelievers are a hindrance for Allah//

 

tafsir continued:

 

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''

 

//The disbeleivers are committing a sin worshipping other's besides Allah.and the punishment is given in first two lines//.

 

repeated again

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men

[chandu_69]

Tafsir continues:

The purpose is

and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah (Alone).)

 

Here is the complete explanation:

 

Allah then commanded fighting the disbelievers when He said: (...until there is no more Fitnah) meaning, Shirk. This is the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi and Zayd bin Aslam.

Allah's statement:

(...and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah (Alone).) means, `So that the religion of Allah becomes dominant above all other religions.

 

 

 

 

Note: when it says Allah's statement it refers to Actual verse in quran.

[chandu_69]

Tafsir continued(Next page)

Now comes Prophet Muhammad's statement:

 

The Prophet said:

(He who fights so that Allah's Word is superior, then he fights in Allah's cause.) In addition, it is reported in the Two Sahihs:

 

 

 

(I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight the people until they proclaim, `None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. Whoever said it, then he will save his life and property from me, except for cases of the law, and their account will be with Allah.)

 

 

Clear?.This is a statement from Muhammad not an interpretation of some scholar;

 

 

Life and property will be saved.

 

 

 

Here is the actual Hadith number:Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24)

[kaisersose]

Smaranam,

 

With all due respect, never imagine that you know someone else's religion better than they do. That is plain arrogance and most Hare Krishnas on this forum are afflicted by this syndrome.

 

You really do not want to be one of them.

 

Cheers

[smaranam]

 

Smaranam,

 

With all due respect, never imagine that you know someone else's religion better than they do. That is plain arrogance and most Hare Krishnas on this forum are afflicted by this syndrome.

 

You really do not want to be one of them.

 

Cheers

 

Thanks for your input.

 

I did not claim to know the religion or know anything, if you go thru' my posts.

 

It was just an expression of hope, faith and some problem solving.

Which does not have to continue here at all.

 

This is what some Muslim Authorities have to say about the original intent and context of Jihad : kill