OmHari Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Vaishnav jan to tene kahiye je PeeD paraayi jaaNe re One who is a Vaishnav knows and feels the suffering of others Par-dukhkhe upkaar kare toye Man abhimaan na aaNe re Serves others who are in miseries, does not let pride enter his mind SakaL lok maan sahune vande Nindaa na kare keni re Humble to all, in the entire world, does not criticize anyone Vaach kaachh man nishchaL raakhe Dhan-dhan janani teni re Keeps his words, deeds and thoughts pure, blessed is his mother Sam-drishti ne trishna tyaagi Par-stree jene maat re Looks upon all with equality, has renounced passion, honors other women as his mother Jivha thaki asatya na bole Par-dhan nav jhaalee haath re Tongue may get tired, but will not utter untruth, does not covet another’s wealth Moh-maaya vyaape nahi jene DriDh vairaagya jena man maan re Does not succumb to worldly attachments, has mind firmly fixed on renunciation Ram naam shoon taaLi laagi SakaL tirath tena tan maan re Always he is intent on chanting Rama’s name, all holy places of pilgrimage are within him. VaN-lobhi ne kapaT-rahit chhe Kaam-krodh nivaarya re Has conquered passion,avarice and anger BhaNe Narsaiyon tenu darshan karta KuL ekoter taarya re The sight of such a Vaishnav, says Narsaiyon, saves entire family through seventy-one generations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaisersose Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 That is a stringent set of qualifications. I can safely say there is no human on the planet (or ever was) who meets all these qualifications. We can instead keep it simple and say a Vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu - the dictionary meaning. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 That is a stringent set of qualifications. I can safely say there is no human on the planet (or ever was) who meets all these qualifications. We can instead keep it simple and say a Vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu - the dictionary meaning. Cheers Hmmm.... He does exist but very rarely he takes birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 this is a wonderfull song and very inspiring , but i have some practical confusions...... Vaishnav jan to tene kahiye je PeeD paraayi jaaNe re One who is a Vaishnav knows and feels the suffering of others that should mean both material sufferings and spiritual sufferings , right ? Par-dukhkhe upkaar kare toye Man abhimaan na aaNe re Serves others who are in miseries, does not let pride enter his mind both material and spiritual miseries i presume ? SakaL lok maan sahune vande Nindaa na kare keni re Humble to all, in the entire world, does not criticize anyone "not criticize anyone " ? many vaishnavas criticize everyone !! do they overlook the word 'anyone' ? VaN-lobhi ne kapaT-rahit chhe Kaam-krodh nivaarya re Has conquered passion,avarice and anger anger towards other sampradayas is freely permissible ? clear my doubts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindustani Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Now the ball is in their court,let them asnwer Sambya! clear my doubts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmHari Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) The qualities of a Vaishnava described in the song are only how the world may identify a Vaishnav outwardly in material world, and from Gaudiya spiritual point of view, we hear them as always humbly absorbed in service for the love of Hari Edited July 24, 2009 by OmHari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshama Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Respected Members, If only people of all sampradayas and religions behave in a manner that is depicted in the song....the world indeed will be a better place. A person should have immense bhakti towards his chosen form of god, at the same time, let people from other faiths, traditions and sampradayas practice what they believe in. Holier-than-thou attitude in some devotees, just adds blemish to the noble faith they are following. Live and let live. Namaste Edited July 24, 2009 by kshama addition of thoughts that just occured to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganeshprasad Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Pranam That is a stringent set of qualifications. I can safely say there is no human on the planet (or ever was) who meets all these qualifications. We can instead keep it simple and say a Vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu - the dictionary meaning. Cheers These were the ideals of Narsinh Mehta Of Junaghad weather one can meet these criteria fully or not is beside the point, but one can try emulate them, even if some of them, would go a long way for ones spiritual growth. Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMalaysia Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 A Vaishnava is a person who believes that Lord Vishnu is the Supreme Lord. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaisersose Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Pranam These were the ideals of Narsinh Mehta Of Junaghad weather one can meet these criteria fully or not is beside the point... I think that is the entire point. The title of the thread is "Who is a Vaishnava?". Obviously, for this title to make sense, one who does not meet the criteria laid out by the OP is not a Vaishnava. As an aside, most of these criteria are about morals...and morals are more relevant to a healthy society than to religion. Non-Vaishnavas & atheists have to be moral too, unless they desire anarchy. And as morals apply to all people, regardless of their religious beliefs, I would like to keep the differentiating line clear. They do not have anything to do with Vaishnavism specifically or with any one other brand of religion. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 The qualities of a Vaishnava described in the song are only how the world may identify a Vaishnav outwardly in material world, and from Gaudiya spiritual point of view, we hear them as always humbly absorbed in service for the love of Hari true but my doubts lies elsewhere ! i'll try to summarise them again -- 1--does "feeling for sufferings of others" include in its scope both material and spiritual sufferings or it leaves the foodless to die in the streets by blaming them for their bad karma ?? 2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ? 3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ? i ask these questions because these are most common traits in many vaishnavas ! clear my doubts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 i'll try to summarise them again -- 1--does "feeling for sufferings of others" include in its scope both material and spiritual sufferings or it leaves the foodless to die in the streets by blaming them for their bad karma ?? 2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ? 3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ? I thought you also were a vaishnav (by birth ofcourse i dont think that counts.) But arent you one according to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I thought you also were a vaishnav in many ways i am and in a few way i am not ! i belong to vaishnav family by birth . i acccept krishna and vishnu as the highest god . i love and adore mahaprabhu and his original sankirtan movement . i believe in naam-mahatmya . however i do not that krishna or vishnu is the exclusive highest god ! i do not believe that liberation can be only granted by krishna . i do not believe that advaitavada is false ! these im sure would fall within the beliefs of a non-vaishnava . anyways that doesnt clear the doubts that i am speaking of ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) in many ways i am and in a few way i am not ! i belong to vaishnav family by birth . i acccept krishna and vishnu as the highest god . i love and adore mahaprabhu and his original sankirtan movement . i believe in naam-mahatmya . however i do not that krishna or vishnu is the exclusive highest god ! i do not believe that liberation can be only granted by krishna . i do not believe that advaitavada is false ! these im sure would fall within the beliefs of a non-vaishnava . anyways that doesnt clear the doubts that i am speaking of ...... You only made me happy sambya. Why then the shaktism. Other demigods are just manifestaions o raspects of vishnu.Im not saying just like that but great acharyas have accepted only vishnu.What explaantion can you give.Even adi shanakracharya in his commentary to vishnu sahasranam has identified vishnu as brahm.He hasnt given this status to durga or anyone else.Actually i read a story where shakts have abused adi shnakaracharya also.I read a story that adi sh. goes to argue with shakts to kashmir.On the way he gets sick,has fever and becomes motionless.Then a nine year old girl comes to him and says that see without shakti you are useless and cant do anything.And thus shaktism is reigned supreme in this way.Adi shanakracharya loses and composes some hym or prayer. jai maa durga Edited July 24, 2009 by sant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 1--does "feeling for sufferings of others" include in its scope both material and spiritual sufferings or it leaves the foodless to die in the streets by blaming them for their bad karma ?? 2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ? 3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ? "feeling for sufferings of others" material and spiritual causes a Vaishnava to be dedicated to the path of sadhana [versus taking up the duties of rectifying the world's personal persuits] True World leaders must make provisions to cultivate vaishnava advisors. "does not criticize anyone" means the sadhaka must stay aloof. [versus wannabe scholars dialoguing on internet forums]. A vaishnava's chasticment is nectar! Ask Kesiserose--- he gets unlimitedly enlivened by such chasticment. "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" is the due course for any transcendentalist [versus materail society's Entertainment and Reportage Industrialists who send their kids to Ivy League Schools from the profits made by publicising the worlds woes---Vaishnavas are not war mongers or profiteers] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingdecember Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Who is a Vaishnav? a misguided soul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Why then the shaktism. Other demigods are just manifestaions o raspects of vishnu.Im not saying just like that but great acharyas have accepted only vishnu.What explaantion can you give.Even adi shanakracharya in his commentary to vishnu sahasranam has identified vishnu as brahm.He hasnt given this status to durga or anyone else. com'on now !! not again ! try and help to me to clear the doubts instead ! to the OP-- Im waiting ... .......... any answers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Im not a vaishnav BUt still if you want answerss then 1--does "feeling for sufferings of others" include in its scope both material and spiritual sufferings or it leaves the foodless to die in the streets by blaming them for their bad karma ?? ans.yes he does ,a saintly man in my opinion will help others in trouble. 2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ? ans.criticism is criticism.But if others are fighting with you then due to the hurt someone has caused to you or you feel hurt by reading someones philsoosphy then sometimes you tend to criticise. 3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ? anger is in the mode of ignorance but sometimes we do get angry and it may be right.IM saying it because even mahapurush have gotten angry.But anger is in the mode of ignorance. Edited July 25, 2009 by sant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ? I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sant Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs. even i said the same thing. Youre going to criticise something which you think is wrong or youre going to find fault against someone whom you dont beleive is right. Ive learnt from someone that if you envy someone then its most likely youl criticise him. Edited July 26, 2009 by sant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmHari Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs. Exactly. The song is in Gujarati and in English "Ninda" would translate into criticism as what you just described. It doesnt refer to disagreement or debate Thank you, Haribol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaranam Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 true but my doubts lies elsewhere ! 2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ? My ans: I thought all those debates on Tattva (principal ) were the transcendental pastimes of the Maha Yogis and Devotees, for our entertainment and education. 3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ? My ans: there is spiritual anger and 'righteous anger'. What you are refering to sounds like righteous anger. Or Lila anger , or Love-for-one's-Guru-anger i ask these questions because these are most common traits in many vaishnavas ! My qn to you : Is that statement a part of your Lila ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganeshprasad Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Pranam I think that is the entire point. The title of the thread is "Who is a Vaishnava?". Obviously, for this title to make sense, one who does not meet the criteria laid out by the OP is not a Vaishnava. Sure, that is if you take the literal meaning but weather Narsinh Mehta expected this for someone who is on the first rung of the ladder on the path of bhakti would be subject of speculation. He had unflinching faith for lord Krishna if his story is anything to go by and his 100ds of bhajans are testimony of his life. like Tulsidas, Mira etc he did not form any institute or seek any following yet their life story and bhajans are great inspiration to millions of bhakta of all denomination of Hindus. Point here is these ideals are for anyone to follow, as you rightly point out, it certainly would make better world, what to speak of this forum. As an aside, most of these criteria are about morals...and morals are more relevant to a healthy society than to religion. Non-Vaishnavas & atheists have to be moral too, unless they desire anarchy. And as morals apply to all people, regardless of their religious beliefs, I would like to keep the differentiating line clear. They do not have anything to do with Vaishnavism specifically or with any one other brand of religion. Agreed but since he saw his world from Krishna point of view it was natural to apply vaishnav perspective , fortunately for us Gujarati ‘s Vishnu/Shiva rivalry never been so intense as in other parts of Bharat. Infect Narsinh Mehta was granted Krishna Darsan by dint of him worshiping Lord Shiva. Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs. well, for most vaishnavas who criticize , it doesnt restrict itself to ordinary disagreement or debate . invariably it turns to ninda or criticism out of envy ! but anyways , we have grown used to it......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs. well , for most vaishnavas who criticize , it doesnt restrict itself to mere disagreement or debate . invariably it turns to ninda or criticism out of envy. but anyways , i guess we've all grown used to it................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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