Guest guest Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Jai Gurudev, If Sadgurudev will or Trimurti Gurudev will they solve the problem in a blink of an eye. Trimurti gurudev are also Yogi's from Siddhashram and Sadgurudev Nikhil most precious dicipels. So diksha , kavach ect from Gurudev will help. Let there be no doubt about it! There is no need for any mantrik of tantrik, because Kinkar swami stated in Nikhil Panchak that there is no tantra, mantra, sadhana, yog ect higher then Sadgurudev Nikhil. So if you pray sincere or meet Trimurti Gurudev the attack will neutralise. Winod Netherlands -- In , Chander D <chander_d_in wrote: > > Anand, > > My response inline, > > Raj > > I really do not want to flood the group with the mails..... but it seems that instead of listening to the core issue, everyone loves to talk about Gurubhakti, and accuse others... listen and understand carefully, and take care that you don't run away from main issue of discussion. > > 1. First of all, this issue started like this: My understanding is, If someone is already hit by a Tantra Prayog, one has to remove the Tantra attack, just wearing any Kavacha does not help. Other gurubhais were not agreeing to me. > >Chander: Agree, any kavach will not work, however Ajivan Tantra Raksha Kavach will, this is from my personal experience, my question to you was the basis and foundation on which you said Ajivan Tantra Raksha Kavach has LIMITED abilities and USELESS. My foundation is my personal experience, whats yours, hear say/what that family told you?. I am incredulous that as a Guru shisya, you doubt the very fact that what Gurudev has instituted is USELESS and LIMITED, this questioning my friend is not Guru Bhakti, this is Guru Maryada, If you do not believe something, thats fine, do not try and enforce your negative, so called FACTS on us. If you still want to go ahead, be our guest, but speak and tell this to Gurudev himself during your telepathic conversations and let us know what Gurudev told you. we all eager to understand Gurudevs response and due to your convienient nature of answering questions selectively, i will take on the onus of asking and reminding > this every week till we get an answer and this answer needs to be circulated on both ISSP-SOUTH and ISSPLIST. Remember you were the one who broadend the audience for your response and suddenly you were the one who also shrunk it to ISSP-SOUTH.....Right? > 1. I had given evidence of a Gurubhai family, right now they all (mother father, two sons) 4 of them are almost reaching graveyard because of severe Tantra attack. > 2. This family had tried all means starting from taking Diksha, Mahavidya Diksha, consultation to Gurudham, trying other Mantriks, situation is still the same. > >Chander: You already have two options, One check with Sadgurudev telepathically and get the response, which as i stated earlier, we will remind you and get answers out. Two have this family meet Trimurthy Gurudevs at the earliest at any of the nearest shivirs and with a open heart and frankness say that both Diksha and Ajivan Tantra Raksha Kavach has not helped this family, whats our next steps. Here again we all would be eager to listen to the answers that you got from both the above stated options. > 1. They have contacted me, I also tried some means and I also failed. > >Chander: I think now you will use your ultimate weapon of Telepathy and let us know the answers, i am sure there will be lot more who have suffered similar attacks and do get a first hand experience of Gurudev's suggestions and directions, Thanks to you. Anand, believe me, you will be helping thousands of people in this parivar. > 1. Now we have just two options left > 1. Get in touch with Gurudham for re-consultation. I need someone from this group having close contacts with Trimurty Gurudev, and have an immediate consultation ASAP. > 2. Any capable Gurubhai give a try of removing this Tantra attack. > >Chander: DO NOT run behind other mantriks, tantriks or Gurubhais, lets check out the options we have discussed above since other mantriks and tantriks are nowhere close to where Gurudev is and we Gurubhais are just small lights, whose SOURCE is GURUDEV and when you have direct connection with the SOURCE, why us? Lets see a logical closure of this issue. >  > Please hold back your expert comments on trying to teach me Gurubhakti, and on material from Gurudham blah blah.....  . We are seriously talking about saving life of a Gurubhai's family and not any unwanted chamatkars OR personal agenda here !! > > >Chander: I really appreciate your concerns and more than 1000% sure Gurudev himself already knows this. And with whatever limited experiences i have had with Gurudev at times of distress, all he really needs is a small cry from the heart for help and before one knows whats happening, things are changed for the better, i have felt and understood this essence. I AM MORE THAN 1000% sure, Gurudev will not keep you waiting with a response, for all you know as i typing this, you must have already got your response. > >Chander: When you challenge somebody for a solution and stating stuff like Mahavidya is Guru and Guru is Mahavidya SHOW ME THAT.....what does that constitute....Physics Lab or Chamtakar?. > >Chander: Brother, nobody is trying to teach Guru Bhakti, you are just sensitized that this is a public forum meant for discussion on Gurudev and when you have the audacity to state HIS kavach are LIMITED and USELESS and also HIS diksha, you better have strong foundation to back up your claims else do not indulge in your LOOSE statements.And as regards understanding and reading carefully, you are the one having selective amensia and ability to reply selectively...NOT us. > > Thanks > Chander > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 Anand, I think this needs to stop, for one i do not agree with the following points, 1. while I agree that all 10 mahavidya are within the Guru Nikhil, in his "physical" absence, I was witnessing failures.... . and that I wanted to point out that, "Having Mahavidyas under Guru Nikhil is not enough, we need to be in a position to use that power to help someone". Thats all the BOLD statement means. So in a way I challenged if any Gurubhai can use that power of Guru to save this family. >Chander: Why would you need SadGurudev in physical form, even taking the hypothetical suggestion of this "physical" stuff, you still stay in Hyderabad and SadGurudev in Jodhpur, what kind of physical connection would you have had and why do you forget that Trimurthy Gurudevs are here very much in flesh and blood, who have SadGurudev tatva in them and this has been clearly articulated and videographed in 1993 Chaitra Navratri Shivir by SadGurudev when He elevated Trimurthy Gurudevs to Gurupaad. Also for a person in contact with SadGurudev through telepathy, why all these loose statements? I have told you earlier and i am reiterating the same fact again, PLEASE USE WORDS JUDICIOUSLY, IF YOU ARE NOT SURE READ AND RE-READ YOUR EMAILS BEFORE SENDING THEM OUT, otherwise this will be one more of the Ajivan Raksha Kavach stories. 2. Lastly I would say, this whole discussion had give a good experience to all of us, and it revealed a new dimension all togther that PAPI people can not be saved, and Guruji do not support them. >Chander: Do you think we all have not committed any sins at all? Why did Gurudev still give us all dikshas, kavachs and yantras, had Gurudev decided like that, then none of us would have been able to take dikshas etc. As i said earlier, there is a subtlety to Spirituality, Both of us can do the same sadhana, however the results may vary and one person may get the full benefit whereas the other may not be successful at all or partially successful, if you try and analyse the results, its a very simple rule, The good energies generated from the sadhana goes in destroying the past sins for one, while the other due to less sins is able to see the results faster and better. A good analogy is like an empty truck and a goods truck racing on the highway, both are same build, quality etc, however the speed at which one can travel is dictated by the load on the vehicle, its anybodys guess as to who will win and all this is something i am not telling you, if you scan through some of our old MTYV magazines, website, you will see all these have been clearly articulated by SadGurudev himself. Please stop these loose statements and lets move forward on a path that is mutually beneficial and aids our Sadgurudevs goals and visions. Best Regards Chander Khatri Anand <khatrianandissp-south Sent: Tuesday, 11 November, 2008 11:37:46 AMRe: [issp-south] Re: Please help from Black Magic Jai Gurudev, Although everyone is clear now, what was the issue, and what is the final outcome, I still thought of closing this open mail thread. 1. Mail sent on Nov 7, 2008, 12.18 PM, words highlighted in blue, "All of them had already took Gurudiksha and are wearing Tantra Raksha Kavach, and sorry to say did not had any benefit at all." what does this statement mean?. Anand- Now everyone knows that the family did some realy bad karmas, and even Guru is not helping them through the Rakaha kavach. So the outcome is, there is no doubt on the capability of the Tantra Raksha Kavach, but if you are Papi / evil person you may not get its full effects, as Guruji does not allow his power grtting used by papies to save them from the sufferings of their deeds. ---- Gurubhais correct me if I am wrong here. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- 2. Regarding Guru and Mahavidya, you have put in the section, now if you read the statement preceding the bold section "show me the effect that as Guru and Mahavidya are one and the other, and you and Guru are same... then you can use power of Mahavidya !!.", what does show me the effect mean? Anand- I tried the best I could to save this family, and I failed. I was trying to seek help from Any Gurubhai. While I was doing that one of your mail stated: Chander: lets stick to that and not get into a discussion about Mahavidyas, Kritya or Vindhyavasini. ..what we all need to be educated about is the fact that all these devis and all gods and goddess are within Sadgurudev.. .. while I agree that all 10 mahavidya are within the Guru Nikhil, in his "physical" absence, I was witnessing failures.... . and that I wanted to point out that, "Having Mahavidyas under Guru Nikhil is not enough, we need to be in a position to use that power to help someone". Thats all the BOLD statement means. So in a way I challenged if any Gurubhai can use that power of Guru to save this family. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- 1. SadGurudev is considered a Mantra Shiromani and the highest and best of all Tantriks, Since you are already HIS shishya and there could be no better person than Him to solve the current issue, why were you looking for somebody else and also urging the group to get you a good mantrik? Anand- Yes Guru Nikhil is Mantra Shiromani, Tantra Adhyeta..... No doubt on that part. I think I had clarified in other mails, but still I repeat here. I was in a desperate mode to save this family. When all the known means failed, we even reached out to external Tantrik to see if that helps, but they also failed, and then finally I contacted on group...... message from guru..... that story everyone knows. Here I would like to clarify that by no means I am trying to urge that one should go to external Mantrik. Our Guru had already given detailed sadhanas that we can use in out day to life to make life better. We ourself need to be strong enough to protect ourself, our family members, Gurubhais, anyone seeking help by the grace of Guru. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- 2. On SadGurudevs advice, you started this knowledge series, my question was if SadGurudev directed you to help people, how can you as a gurubhai guide others without the backing of SadGurudev?. The reason for my conclusion was you stated that you consult SadGurudev only for your personal problems and not for the external world, then the knowledge that you are sharing with us is your own or based on what SadGurudev tells you to do? Anand- People use to consult when they didn't get results, may have questions on digbandhan etc. I use to suggest on either clarification asked, or suggest some prayog to solve their problem, this does not need consultation from Gurudev, as the prayogs are already suggested by Gurudev himself. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- 3. Ajivan Tantra Raksha kavach, as you often say has limited abilities, you still have not given a convincing answer, if you take a quick poll from the point we started this discussion, there have been about 4 who have openly stated they have been benefitted from their personal experiences, my only point of view was, there are certain precautions that needs to be ensured that the pranpratistha of a yantra remains intact, this i shared in one of my earlier emails. Beyond anything else, what clearly needs to understood by all is not to doubt anything that Gurudev says or does or gives. This is the core foundation of Guru Shisya relationship and Gurudev for one never says, gives or does something thats not COMPLETE. thats the bone of my contention with your words, its as simple as that. Anand- Yes I agree to all the points you stated.. This issue came when I had witnessed a family which didn't see the effect, and now even that case is clarified, and as they were found guilty, Guruji's blessings are not for them. So the picture is crystal clear now that " The AAJEEVAN TANTRA RAKSHA KAVACH" is good, there is no doubt about it. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- Again a quick recap for all of us, please read SadGurudevs pravachan that was transformed into "Bhramand Sadhana' in May1997 issue of MTYV, the sadhana itself is 1 paragraph, however SadGurudevs pravachan goes to about 4.5 pages and this pravachan has a significant standing in our current discussion, if you people are unable to access the same, do let me know, i would definitely share this with all, the size is big, so can send in 5 parts. Anand, again without any accusations and a friendly gesture, the whole point of my email was to state in a simple statement "WITH GREATER POWERS COME GREATER RESPONSIBILITIES" , translate this to our scenario, as a responsible and senior Gurubhai stating stuff as you have in a public forum is very unbecoming, you have taken on a responsibility of helping people, you cannot state such things without complete base, if it was aganist me or anybody else it was fine, however not aganist Gurudev, because the very foundation of SADGURUDEV is COMPLETENESS and let me state in bold, "THERE CANNOT BE ANYTHING THAT SADGURUDEV HAS DONE, SPOKEN OR GIVEN THAT CAN BE LIMITING, INEFFECTIVE OR INCOMPLETE" Anand- Yes you are right, you told me that time also that the kavach is very effective, and there is no doubt. While I was witnessing totally opposit. Both of us were telling TRUTH. The real fact got revealed later that, the family is guilty and did such a bad karmas that Guruji haven't forgiven them, and they are facing fruits of their karma. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- Lastly I would say, this whole discussion had give a good experience to all of us, and it revealed a new dimension all togther that PAPI people can not be saved, and Guruji do not support them. regards, Anand Anand's Knowledge Series: Tantra Public chat room: http://xat.com/ ISSPHindi: http://groups. / group/issp- south Knowledge% 20Series/Marathi: http://groups. / group/issp- marathi Anand%27s% 20Knowledge% 20Base/ Chander D <chander_d_in@ >issp-south@gro ups.comSunday, 9 November, 2008 5:51:37 PMRe: [issp-south] Re: Please help from Black Magic Hi Anand, Thanks for your response, first and foremost, i am NOT accusing you, all i wanted to understand with the basis of your statements, which were accusations aganist Gurudev. If you feel i am accusing, i am really very sorry, but the whole point of my mail was to understand why you had accused Gurudev dikshas and the Ajivan Tantra Raksha Kavach in the first place. Anyways here is my clarifications on your points raised, 1. Mail sent on Nov 7, 2008, 12.18 PM, words highlighted in blue, "All of them had already took Gurudiksha and are wearing Tantra Raksha Kavach, and sorry to say did not had any benefit at all." what does this statement mean?. 2. Regarding Guru and Mahavidya, you have put in the section, now if you read the statement preceding the bold section "show me the effect that as Guru and Mahavidya are one and the other, and you and Guru are same... then you can use power of Mahavidya !!.", what does show me the effect mean? Now regarding the other unanswered questions, 1. SadGurudev is considered a Mantra Shiromani and the highest and best of all Tantriks, Since you are already HIS shishya and there could be no better person than Him to solve the current issue, why were you looking for somebody else and also urging the group to get you a good mantrik? 2. On SadGurudevs advice, you started this knowledge series, my question was if SadGurudev directed you to help people, how can you as a gurubhai guide others without the backing of SadGurudev?. The reason for my conclusion was you stated that you consult SadGurudev only for your personal problems and not for the external world, then the knowledge that you are sharing with us is your own or based on what SadGurudev tells you to do? 3. Ajivan Tantra Raksha kavach, as you often say has limited abilities, you still have not given a convincing answer, if you take a quick poll from the point we started this discussion, there have been about 4 who have openly stated they have been benefitted from their personal experiences, my only point of view was, there are certain precautions that needs to be ensured that the pranpratistha of a yantra remains intact, this i shared in one of my earlier emails. Beyond anything else, what clearly needs to understood by all is not to doubt anything that Gurudev says or does or gives. This is the core foundation of Guru Shisya relationship and Gurudev for one never says, gives or does something thats not COMPLETE. thats the bone of my contention with your words, its as simple as that. Again a quick recap for all of us, please read SadGurudevs pravachan that was transformed into "Bhramand Sadhana' in May1997 issue of MTYV, the sadhana itself is 1 paragraph, however SadGurudevs pravachan goes to about 4.5 pages and this pravachan has a significant standing in our current discussion, if you people are unable to access the same, do let me know, i would definitely share this with all, the size is big, so can send in 5 parts. Anand, again without any accusations and a friendly gesture, the whole point of my email was to state in a simple statement "WITH GREATER POWERS COME GREATER RESPONSIBILITIES" , translate this to our scenario, as a responsible and senior Gurubhai stating stuff as you have in a public forum is very unbecoming, you have taken on a responsibility of helping people, you cannot state such things without complete base, if it was aganist me or anybody else it was fine, however not aganist Gurudev, because the very foundation of SADGURUDEV is COMPLETENESS and let me state in bold, "THERE CANNOT BE ANYTHING THAT SADGURUDEV HAS DONE, SPOKEN OR GIVEN THAT CAN BE LIMITING, INEFFECTIVE OR INCOMPLETE" Best Regards Chander Khatri Anand <khatrianand@ >issp-south@gro ups.comSunday, 9 November, 2008 4:41:10 PMRe: [issp-south] Re: Please help from Black Magic Hi Chander This time I am taking extra care that I answer your points. Still if you feel I didn't answered, pls revert back, I will answer them. From old communication also, feel free to ask if you find I run away from answering something. While drafting the mail I realized, I need to get some clarification from you, before I send my mail. Here are some points, pls clarify those, so that I answer to the point, else I say something, you say something... and the story prolongs 1. Chander: my question to you was the basis and foundation on which you said Ajivan Tantra Raksha Kavach has LIMITED abilities and USELESS. Anand: I do say its limited, can you give me referance where I said its "USELESS"? 2. >Chander: When you challenge somebody for a solution and stating stuff like Mahavidya is Guru and Guru is Mahavidya SHOW ME THAT.....what does that constitute.. ..Physics Lab or Chamtakar?. Anand: Let's have a look at the communication we had: ============ ========= ========= ========= = >>..what we all need to be educated about is the fact that all these devis and all gods and goddess are within Sadgurudev, so stating Kritya is more powerful compared to Mahavidya etc is as good as comparing your eye is better compared to your ear, each are for different purposes and needs. I failed to understand your point of view here. Yes everything is in Guru Nikhil, as he already had all the mahavidya siddhi. You are a deciple, and already united with Guru.... do you take this challange to use same Mahavidya power to remove the Tantra attack on this family? You may use Gurumantra, you may use your own Tantra Raksha kavach, just anything you can... show me the effect that as Guru and Mahavidya are one and the other, and you and Guru are same... then you can use power of Mahavidya !!. OK, open challange to the whole group, any deciple ready to take this challange and remove the Tantra attack on this family? ============ ========= ========= ========= ==== Let me re-clarify your understanding I understand that Guru Nikhil had all 10 Mahavidya Siddhi, and there is no doubt on that. Point highlited in RED above. Can you re-look in to the point you raised in Yellow, and see what I asked in BOLD. Are they same? I am talking about "you/Any Shishya trying to use the power of mahavidya", where as you are accusing me that I am asking "Show me Guru and Mahavidya are same". 3. Chander: And as regards understanding and reading carefully, you are the one having selective amensia and ability to reply selectively. ..NOT us. Anand: - Please give your points, which you need answers for, Isn't that better to first ask, than to accuse? Rgards, Anand Chander D <chander_d_in@ >issp-south@gro ups.com; GuruDev <@ s.com>Sunday, 9 November, 2008 3:21:59 PMRe: [issp-south] Re: Please help from Black Magic Anand, My response inline, Raj I really do not want to flood the group with the mails..... but it seems that instead of listening to the core issue, everyone loves to talk about Gurubhakti, and accuse others... listen and understand carefully, and take care that you don't run away from main issue of discussion. First of all, this issue started like this: My understanding is, If someone is already hit by a Tantra Prayog, one has to remove the Tantra attack, just wearing any Kavacha does not help. Other gurubhais were not agreeing to me. >Chander: Agree, any kavach will not work, however Ajivan Tantra Raksha Kavach will, this is from my personal experience, my question to you was the basis and foundation on which you said Ajivan Tantra Raksha Kavach has LIMITED abilities and USELESS. My foundation is my personal experience, whats yours, hear say/what that family told you?. I am incredulous that as a Guru shisya, you doubt the very fact that what Gurudev has instituted is USELESS and LIMITED, this questioning my friend is not Guru Bhakti, this is Guru Maryada, If you do not believe something, thats fine, do not try and enforce your negative, so called FACTS on us. If you still want to go ahead, be our guest, but speak and tell this to Gurudev himself during your telepathic conversations and let us know what Gurudev told you. we all eager to understand Gurudevs response and due to your convienient nature of answering questions selectively, i will take on the onus of asking and reminding this every week till we get an answer and this answer needs to be circulated on both ISSP-SOUTH and ISSPLIST. Remember you were the one who broadend the audience for your response and suddenly you were the one who also shrunk it to ISSP-SOUTH.. ...Right? I had given evidence of a Gurubhai family, right now they all (mother father, two sons) 4 of them are almost reaching graveyard because of severe Tantra attack. This family had tried all means starting from taking Diksha, Mahavidya Diksha, consultation to Gurudham, trying other Mantriks, situation is still the same. >Chander: You already have two options, One check with Sadgurudev telepathically and get the response, which as i stated earlier, we will remind you and get answers out. Two have this family meet Trimurthy Gurudevs at the earliest at any of the nearest shivirs and with a open heart and frankness say that both Diksha and Ajivan Tantra Raksha Kavach has not helped this family, whats our next steps. Here again we all would be eager to listen to the answers that you got from both the above stated options. They have contacted me, I also tried some means and I also failed. >Chander: I think now you will use your ultimate weapon of Telepathy and let us know the answers, i am sure there will be lot more who have suffered similar attacks and do get a first hand experience of Gurudev's suggestions and directions, Thanks to you. Anand, believe me, you will be helping thousands of people in this parivar. Now we have just two options left Get in touch with Gurudham for re-consultation. I need someone from this group having close contacts with Trimurty Gurudev, and have an immediate consultation ASAP. Any capable Gurubhai give a try of removing this Tantra attack. >Chander: DO NOT run behind other mantriks, tantriks or Gurubhais, lets check out the options we have discussed above since other mantriks and tantriks are nowhere close to where Gurudev is and we Gurubhais are just small lights, whose SOURCE is GURUDEV and when you have direct connection with the SOURCE, why us? Lets see a logical closure of this issue. Please hold back your expert comments on trying to teach me Gurubhakti, and on material from Gurudham blah blah..... . We are seriously talking about saving life of a Gurubhai's family and not any unwanted chamatkars OR personal agenda here !! >Chander: I really appreciate your concerns and more than 1000% sure Gurudev himself already knows this. And with whatever limited experiences i have had with Gurudev at times of distress, all he really needs is a small cry from the heart for help and before one knows whats happening, things are changed for the better, i have felt and understood this essence. I AM MORE THAN 1000% sure, Gurudev will not keep you waiting with a response, for all you know as i typing this, you must have already got your response. >Chander: When you challenge somebody for a solution and stating stuff like Mahavidya is Guru and Guru is Mahavidya SHOW ME THAT.....what does that constitute.. ..Physics Lab or Chamtakar?. >Chander: Brother, nobody is trying to teach Guru Bhakti, you are just sensitized that this is a public forum meant for discussion on Gurudev and when you have the audacity to state HIS kavach are LIMITED and USELESS and also HIS diksha, you better have strong foundation to back up your claims else do not indulge in your LOOSE statements.And as regards understanding and reading carefully, you are the one having selective amensia and ability to reply selectively. ..NOT us. Thanks Chander Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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