On The Will of Siva

[Guest guest]

Dear friends in The Self, i thought you may like to see this talk it

is very nice..

 

with respect and love bindu

 

On The Will of Siva

 

bindu: Namaste how are things?

 

sadhu: Hello I'm doing pretty well. I was just reading your Bhairava

tantra and also seeing how the version I have compares.

 

bindu: mm

 

sadhu: I have the Swami Stysangananda Saraswati version called The

Ascent.

 

bindu: mm. i have not seen that one

sadhu: I don't understand either of them very well in places.

 

bindu: how long have you been into yoga?

 

sadhu: I like the methods that expand spaciality. I have been

meditating since 1971, but wish I had made more progress. About 35

years.

 

bindu: mm... can i ask your age?

 

sadhu: When I began, I meditated a lot, about 8-12 hours a day and

did that for about 10-12 years. Then about 1-3 hours per day after

that. I'm 60 years old.

 

bindu: mm... i see.. do yoiu have children ... married. etc?

 

sadhu: Married. No children. Wife also meditates.

 

bindu: uhuh, where in the world do you live?

 

sadhu: I'm living in North Carolina, in the USA. A little town called

Walnut Cove just north of Greensboro.

 

bindu: what is your profession in your life?

 

sadhu: In school, I majored in engineering physics, but didn't work

as an engineer long. Before that, I played music. Now, my wife and I

teach Quantum-Touch, a method of healling.

 

bindu: ah! excellent.... so hence the focus on method (your interest

in bhairava ) what instrument do you play?

 

sadhu: I play guitar, sing, recorder, a little keyboard, etc. Yes, I

feel like I could have made more progress if I had understood more

how to practice.

 

bindu: mmm: so i take it you had no formal teachers in yoga that is...

 

sadhu: I first did the TM thing and took it as far as it went, with

the siddhis, etc. Then I read and met Ramamurti Mishra, then studied

a bit with Sharon O'Hara, but was difficult to understand her

methods. I also met and took some teachings from Ravi Shankar, the

pundit.

 

bindu: uhuh, i don't know of sharon o'hara

 

bindu: Have you studied siva sutra?

 

sadhu: Sharon and Patrick O'Hara (patrick deceased) was instructed by

Yogananda's teacher from the other side.

 

bindu: mmm,: i see.

 

sadhu: I read your version of the Shiva sutra just recently and liked

it. The 3 sections of it. I have also read the Gita of course and the

Bhagavatam, a version from Motilal Banarsiddas.

 

bindu: mmm. So would you say you resonate somewhat with the idea of

krishna, and or the existence of deity?

 

sadhu: Yes. I resonate with Krishna and existence of deity. Mishra

gave me the name Shri Rama Govinda, but I don't use it in this

society, but it confirms my interest in that form. I also like Shiva

for his compassion.

 

I have noticed with all the teachers that have been teaching, and all

of the students, that not many have reached the goal, or even it

seems made much progress.

 

bindu: oh yes that is very true and often quite sad. Have you read or

studied the Ramayana?

 

sadhu: Yes, my wife and I are reading the Ramacharita Manasa in the

evenings at bedtime. It's Tulisidas' version of the Ramayana. She

hasn't read it before, but we are slowly going through it.

 

bindu: excellent.... do you know, that like the Gita ... it is about

the inner-quest to free the soul from the ego?

 

sadhu: Yes, although it appears to be stories. It seems to be

interpreted as Rama (spirit) and Sita (manifestation) in a play.

 

bindu: yes. Just as in vaisnaivism there are referrences to Radhe and

Krishna (same idea again) in fact this idea runs thru-out all hindu

works.. The following and practice of which comprise hinduism ( the

Hindu's themselves know it as the Sanatan-Dharma )... many many ways

to refer to the same dual-nature of being and consciousness.

 

sadhu: Yes, lately I've been on YouTube listening to Nithyananda talk

on the Bhairava Tantra. But he's just getting started. I was looking

for some good translations so I could understand and choose a program

of methods to move me forward faster.

 

bindu: mm, i see.

 

sadhu: I was trying to discover which methods are the easiest and

most fruitful and which ones could be combined. Mishra used to say

that combined methods bring combined power. Also which sequence would

be most successful.

 

bindu: Have you ever seen or read anything by Ramana Maharshi?

 

sadhu: No, not that I remember. Maybe in a bookstore.

 

bindu: mm. how about non-dual philosophies?

 

sadhu: I presume you mean Ramana Maharishi. I have seen photos, but I

wasn't drawn to him at the time.

 

bindu: Yes.

 

sadhu: Did he write on the Bhairava Tantra?

 

bindu: No i think not... his focus was mainly on one-on-one and

simple direct and pithy discourse.

 

I must appologize for all these questions they are intended to get a

feel for the composition of your understanding as regards the

philosophy ..

 

sadhu: I didn't get to pursue all the teachers. I tried to stay with

the ones I learned from as far as I could go. But maybe I should have

been more eclectic. I've read many of the eastern and western

scriptures and I feel like I understand them. I am just not yet at

the experience of them.

 

bindu: mmmm ok.

 

sadhu: I found Misra's " Textbook of Yoga Psychology " (Patanjli's Yoga

Sutras) and " Fundamentals of Yoga " to be the best I have read so far.

Now I am learning about Tantra which I had discarded before, being

told it was mostly a lower, sex oriented method. I did not understand

the higher Tantra.

 

bindu: mmm

 

sadhu: In your experience, what are the most valuable methods of

practice?

 

bindu: Well, in all the books you have read there is an underlying

thread running thru all - the thread is one -pointedness; either

expressed as single devotion or as persistence in one form or another.

 

sadhu: Yes.

 

bindu: My path is about one-pointed use of the WILL in a certain

way... it is a path that is all inclusvie or integral..

 

sadhu: Play has not been a big part of it. And Tantra seems to

endorse bliss and play more. How does WILL fit in.

 

bindu: mm

 

sadhu: I presume you mean will, not as effort or force. Tantra

doesn't seem to endorse force very much.

 

bindu: Well Siva sutra Siva says that ... " By non-contemplation of ME

are you bound "

 

bindu: so the path is about developing the Will to remain in constant

meditation upon the indwelling self (Siva)

even while going about in everday life; this results in freedom in

all modes of consciousness; but make no mistake it is HE who is free

it is not the Jiva.

 

sadhu: Yes, it seems that we have to become as familiar with

consciousness as we are with matter. How is WILL applied to remain

absorbed in Self?

 

bindu: This Self-absorption is called sahaj samadhi, the emphasis is

not upon the bliss-consciousness < as this bliss is the mind-body

reaction to the connection... it is not the realization the challenge

is to remain free in all modes of consciousness (again Siva Sutra

Says " HE " (Siva) " is free in all modes of His own consciousness.

 

This freedom is got by developing the Will to remain in the Self. The

Will in all of us is what the sutra calls the iiccha-Sakti.

Developing this one-pointedness is the most powerful, best and

fastest way to realization.

 

sadhu: I understand Turiya as the state underlying all states. I

experience some degree of this continuity. What exactly is will? What

is WILL?

 

bindu: mmm. Well normally people say " MY WILL " as if it belongs to

the jiva.......... (to who they think or define themselves as)

 

sadhu: Yes, and willpower is the assersion of commitment. But I think

you are referring to something deeper.

 

bindu: they even say " MY MIND " as if there is another who HAS a

mind .......... my body my arm, my emotion, my love, my heart ......

and so on . as if there is another . they say 'i " " me " mine " etc...

that one that is referred to in all those lines above is the ego...

the jiva . the so-called individual soul.....

 

sadhu: Yes. I understand the nature of the small self and it's narrow

identification.

 

bindu: But dear since there is no such thing as a self that is

separate from THE SELF, the little self is an illusion hence so is

the limited will. For example the sutra says that by referrence to

himself as jiva-self.... " HE (Siva) is limited in both will and

efficacy " ;

sadhu: Yes. But how to plug into the Will of the higher Self?

 

bindu: The 1st step is to come to understand how the jiva does not

exist as any-self aware being or existent entity

then we can move on.. but until this is fully understood and accepted

we can only go arond in circles....

 

sadhu: Yes, I understand that it is an illusion covering the higher

Self. The sense of separateness is not real. But it is experienced

as " real " .

 

 

bindu: mm. so then if you are willing i would like to introduce you

to some concepts which are really out there...

 

 

sadhu: Yes, I would like new concepts.

 

bindu: yes it is... but these pages will give you a different slant

on it http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/yogicfire/jiva/jivaindex.htm

 

 

bindu: if you find them to your liking we can proceed to erase the

problem in your sadhana.

 

sadhu: I'm looking at the page, be right back.

 

bindu: However it is my experience that most people have the flaw of

thinking that they (themselves) can realize the truth... that is

impossible.

 

sadhu: I will have to take some time with the page. I do understand

the the jiva is Spirit and that jiva doesn't realize Spirit, but

becomes IT when the obstacles, the mis-identification ceases.

 

bindu: good good... but the jiva does not BECOME it dissolves into

the whole like ice in water.

 

sadhu: How to break that false identification with externals?

 

bindu: You cannot ..It is like unto being in a room that has no

doors.. there is no way out.

 

sadhu: Yes, I like the idea and experience of melting into the

absolute.

 

bindu: the only way out is IN -- how to do that?

 

bindu: 1st no one can do anything.. so then one never DID

anything ... going inward one sees that all this is inside The

Self.... it is displayed in HIS conscious being AS His consciousness-

light-existence.

 

There are 1st the emotional levels which get more and more sublte

then we come to the astral planes... ALL within HIM.u: then we see

that there is no physical world at all.. it is in fact all spirit.

then we see that it is emanating from His conscious being; in fact

His being is also existing as consciousNESS which takes the form of a

universal light body

all within His CONSCIOUS Absolute < i am not saying absolute

consciousNESS as that is an incorrect way to think of it ... as if

his conscious being were an aspect or attribute of somehting else

for example consciousNESS is had by or noticed by some being or

other; while the conscious absolute is an open ended oneness that is

infinite which has existence displayed within it like a dream or

multiplicit reflection of its own nature (omniscient omnipresence

which is the definition of an infinite being) in short existence IS

ITS ACTUAL CONSCIOUSNESS

while it itself is beyond consciousness. Hence the referrence to SELF

which is made by saying my this or that or I AM this or that is

implied in the saying.

 

 

sadhu: So there is this Conscious Presence which is the container of

everything. And this conscious presence creates consciousness upon

which this world is a projection made out of the same stuff.

 

bindu: Not exactly correct.What you say is correct, but there is a

slight error..

 

The conscious ever present transcendental being does NOT ACTUALLY

CREATE, as if by an act of WILL; existence exists AS it... it simply

comes into being as a result of the existence of the Self.... the

Self does nothing. thus also the karma that is said to belong to a

being is not belonging to that being at all, it belongs to the Self,

the karma simply m,akes the jiva what he is and gives him his

nature... additionally since the karma of all beings belongs to the

self so also does the Kriya and the jnana.

 

 

For example in gita Krishna says : " Oh Arjun, all things exist IN MY

POTENCY " . His existence in Himself prior to the Smanifestation of

existence is comprised of HIS potency or potential... < this is his

omnipotent WIll or as Siva sutra calls it " It is HIS iiicchaa -

sakti (Will potency and power).

 

 

This shines forth AS existence, it is also called tejesa .... it

begins as the nila-bindu and by multiplicit reflection within itself

and within each reflected particle of the 1st it builds up the whole

cosmos ... it just IS.

 

Then what exists, exists - because He appears in it AS it; it is

named the mother or radhe or such. Another example is that in

upanishad, it is said He created the world and sent His sakti into

all of existence as the female he then decended to the world and

fornicated with her in all beings.

..

This means that the wWill and consciousness create existence. The

consciousness is called sri tripura

given a female aspect ... the Will is Siva existing in ALL beings.

 

bindu: Sita (the soul) is seen as His female... God made eve from

Adams rib etc..

 

bindu: So then when we practice the high tantra. we can use

visualization of gods making love inside us thru our bodies..... or

we can use the one-pointed focus of directing the WIll to the self

itself.

 

The latter removes the jiva from the picture, while visualization of

the gods is to remain an observer existing as jiva and is hence

selfish.

 

sadhu: So how is the Will applied to resolve the false identification

and allow the Conscious Being to shine forth as us? What is

the " method " that causes " directing the Will " to the self.

 

 

bindu: 1st we have to understand that THE WILL so - to - speak IS NOT

OURS..... hence it is NOT " THE WE " who directs it...

we have to let go of the ridiculous idea that WE (the jeeva ) have

free will.

 

sadhu: Yes, the WILL is not an attribute of the small self. Yet,

something must allow this WILL to become active.

 

 

bindu: yes... we will see...To come at an answer to this i will come

at it indirectly.......

 

We said earlier that the iichaa-sakti manifests existence as a

matter of course simply because HE exists... that sakti enters all

beings as the WILL .. .the WILL impels the jiva to evolve to the

realization of Himself.... this causes ALL evolution... physical,

spiritual and genetic.... it manifests as the countless beings in

both form and nature.... on all levels and lokas (this is how he is

omnipresent and omniscient ... knowing Himself on all levels thru all

beings )...... hence it does NOT BECOME active..... it IS active...

bindu: so then when the sahdu is ready He will come and make the jiva

reflect His wisdom in a certain way so that the mirror shows Him His

true identity.

 

sadhu: Yes, so how do we as " jiva " cooperate with the Divine to allow

this transformation?

 

You have reached this evolutionary state.... hence here we are. So

then the how of it is this>>>

 

1st understand that no process, method, practice... or attitude that

the jiva can employ will assist him

bindu: he has to totally give up all ideas that he (the jiva) can

achieve it .... because the very idea is an oxymoron.

 

Jiva wants to be free, but to be free he has to lose his limited

beingness or die to the idea that HE IS JIVA.So then he has to teach

his mind to reside in the Self.... but that too is very difficult ...

because the mind and jiva arise simultaneously - they are like

conjoint-twins.

 

So then...... now we come to the indirect part. let us take a step

back.

 

1st we should notice that HE who IS INSIdE ALL beings ....... is the

only one who speaks...... it is HE who says " i " " me " " mine " or " i

am " etc.... there is NO such being as the jiva saying this.....

indeed the referred to being (who is indicated in all the above

references as if it were an entity) is the jiva.... hence the jiva

cannot refer to himself.

 

So then, the " I AM " who exist in all beings IS ACTUALLY SIVA or THE

SELF! So to come at it indirectly we should approach the one-pointed

focus with this understanding.

 

We must come to accept THE SELF AS SELF instead of suscribing to Jiva

as Self.

 

bindu: We do this by Japa of a mantra that states this fact.... in

short we simply reprogram the minds idea of selfhood via positive and

affirmative statements..hence mantra.

 

bindu: Again due to the fact that the Self in all is THE SELF,there

can be no free WILL owned by jiva... hence it is the WILL of the Self

that is employed in the one pointedness to recognize Himself.So it is

the actual implementation of self recognition. This is the essence of

vijnana-bhariava.

 

sadhu: i do not exist, SHIVA, SELF exists and operates through this

body.

 

bindu: Yes, and thru all

bindu: So then,all the dahrana's in the tantra lead to the

recogntition that the WILL must be employed to do the practice... so

do not do the practice ... use the source instead...ie. the iicchaa

sakti ... turn it back upon itself

this alone will suffice for very fast progress.....

 

Also understand that meditation is not for its own sake or for the

experiences.. it is for the developement of the WILL the same applies

to hatha and iyenga as well as the early stages of Patanjali yoga.

Hence He attains freedom in all the modes of His own consciousness.

That freedom consists in the recogntion that He is already free in

all as the Self.....

this promotes acceptance, love, tolerance, and compassion for all

beings since they are the Self.... here then is where knowledge

becomes ignorance and love becomes wizdom.

 

 

bindu: Thus a man who has gotten rid of himself lives as a normal

being but internally that man is not himself, he has lost himself, he

has gone beyond as the tibetans say... this is self-realization.

 

 

It is not that anyone got enlightened... the SELF is always

enlightened. He is Siva, Vishnu, God, Jehovah, Krishna or whatever

else we want to call God.... He is not that MAN, or JIVA. He is

clothed in existence itself... but removing the clothes yeilds no-

self who has any limited being that can be known in any language

because language appears IN HIM.. it is nto the other way around...

HE appears AS language AS mantra AS Being and consciousness.

 

bindu: Dear you might like this poem......

http://groups.msn.com/AnantaYogaSchool/satsang.msnw?

action=get_message & mview=0 & ID_Message=94 & LastModified=4675504811449549

478

 

sadhu: Why is it that WILL needs development if it is Shiva's? It is

already WILL fully or not.

 

bindu: ah! ... good good good that you see this

 

sadhu: I'm reading the poem.

 

bindu: so then we have spoken of the 1st step; You are talking of the

2nd step now...

bindu: >>> Why is it that WILL needs development if it is Shiva's? It

is already WILL fully or not.

 

sadhu: I will come back to the poem. It's a bit long.

 

bindu: sure, as you wish.

 

bindu: The 2nd step is to transform the mind by the recognition of

what you just stated... so then hold the focus upon that idea and

surrender into the idea that the correct stance in relation to the

2nd step is to recognize that to move out of that idea as if you

exist is to to Jiva as Self...

 

bindu: so in this level the recommendation is to remain in Self and

to cease trying to become (go out of the Self)

bindu: since you are already the Self existing as existence...

practice of this is to let go of all ego-based drives....

bindu: become nothing, remain as nothing;this is not negation of

something, nor is it nihilism. It is based in the truth of the sakti

as described above. It is to remain in the potential, focussed

lovingly upon the Self.

 

Thus Japa is very useful here; to that end i give my students this

mantra.

 

bindu: Om.... Soham ... Om

bindu: it means: I AM .... I AM HE ... I AM.

 

bindu: in english Om means I AM (i exist as THE I AM )

 

bindu: Soham is the CONSCIOUS SELF (Siva, God etc) So we do japa of

it.

 

bindu: Om....pause reflect between breathes ..Soham ....pause

reflect between breathes Om ....pause reflect between breathes ..

repeat.

 

sadhu: OK . I reflect on the meaning.

 

bindu: Do this mentally silently in every moment that your mind is

free of involvment in the outer world.

 

Reflect like this>>> I AM .... I AM HE ... I AM. Do not let it refer

to the idea that the ego is HIM

but that the referrer is HIM existing as existence.

 

sadhu: That allows the WILL to come from that side.

 

bindu: YES! exactly.

 

sadhu: OK to share this with my wife?

 

bindu: of course, or who ever you like..may i ask to put it on line

as it might be useful to others?

 

sadhu: Thanks for your help. I'll read the pages you sent. Yes. You

can use this discourse any way you like.

 

 

sadhu: Thank you.

bindu: __/|\__ welcome