Guest guest Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Dear friends, here is a very nice talk you may like to see.. with love and respect bindu On the Integrity of The Self. sadhu: yesterday i read your explanation of meditation the pictures make it so clear in easy way you explain everything its so nice. bindu: i am pleased that it was useful sadhu: Thank you ji bindu: do you have any questions? sadhu: yes ji the feelings you said for doing kundalini meditation are scary it gives scary feelings bindu: oh sadhu: yes ji bindu: The feeling is the feeling of sakti .. but the mind calls it fear as the mind cannot tell what it is .. so it reports to the watching Conscious Self the nearest thing it can to describe it. sadhu: ohhh bindu: Is this clear? sadhu: yes ji bindu: So then, the next thing the mind will do is present higher and higher ideas to describe what it happening ... then gods and archetypal beings will appear ... all are respesentations made by the mind as it tries to describe what is hapening hence all are false things. sadhu: What are archetypal beings? imagination of unknown things ? bindu: No. archetypal beings are being created by the mind and are then made responsible for things we cannot take responsiblity for as the Jiva. sadhu: oh okay ji you have mentioned soham in the text file. its nice with the poem aajba mantra. Have you heared of the temple in thiruvaroor ji ? Lord Nataraja dances as ajaba soham soham with yoga structure they build temple. bindu: no i did not know. sadhu: yes ji The temple here was built as yoga structure, but most ppl don't know this. bindu: ah! sadhu: my guru took me there and explained all for unmarried and yogis can follow mulatanathar lingam, and married people should pray lord thygaraja; it's in tamilnadu. bindu: ah! sadhu: mooladar chakra place named thiruvarroor and got pure illusion we call as shakthi lingam with empty space in center. In one temple alone there are 1000 lingam bindu: . sadhu: The people here don't know the value of their history and they don't maintain it. It's a place where lord Shiva once walked. bindu: yes ok but let us get back to the meditation sadhu: You have read about lord sunra song rite ji ? When you come here you can visit all these places if you like bindu: yes thank you very much. Excitement for the lord is good sadhu: i wanted to ask you about i-ness ... is that is me right? Ego ? bindu: yes.. sadhu: i am not what i think i am ... i am him lord shiva. just as the manager of the body (it's owner) is really god bindu: yes sadhu: i can say this from my mouth; but how to say it from deep inside my body? My heart should say it instantly; it should know and understand it. bindu: mmm.. what i say may lead you to it ... pay attention. sadhu: yes ji. bindu: Look into your mind and notice that when there is a reference to YOU " AS " jiva or a person etc... first there is a presence .... then in a moment he says something about YOU (Jiva) ... for example: When the feeling of wanting to think about what you are feeling, comes... He says " i " feel... at the moment that He says " i " there is a reference to Jiva (YOU) then comes the word " FEEL " sadhu: Yes. bindu: With His words he points at you.... He identifies with YOU " AS " self because you are not a realizaed being but when he realizes who HE is ... HE ceases to identify with Jiva " AS " self and instead... identifies with Himself " AS " SELF HE identifies with THE I AM AS self; instead of Jiva. So then how to find him....the texts say everything is OM.. it is HIM .... it is sri Krishna's form that is why He showed arjun his cosmic nature .. so then to know him practice the mantra of Om Soham OM sadhu: cosmic energy means is his vishwaroopa ? bindu: yes... DO Japa of Om, then think he is ALL including ME then Soham... then think THE I AM IN ME is HIM then OM again... then repeat the mantra like that. sadhu: oh okay ji bindu: Do this 108 times every morning softly with love... then chant Om Soham Om by Japa as often as you can .. then you will change the mind's habit of identifying with Jiva as self.and begin to Identify with him " AS " self instead sadhu: yes ji bindu: Then you will lose yourself and He will realize Himself in you; but until we cease identification with the body " AS " self we will not find Him; we must stop thinking WE will get realized because ONLY HE EXISTS hence He will realize Himself and the jiva's job of leading us to Him will be over so the jiva will go back to her mother just as did sita in Ramayana once Narayana found Himself. sadhu: yes ji i saw on your website about sita , radha and krishna... You said that the soul is the bone of adam u written. bindu: so then since the jiva is merely His reflection in Himself OF himself... the reflection cannot do anything just as your reflection in the mirror in your bathroom cannot act unless you do .. .nor can Jeeva. sadhu: ji what is that u said something in mirror with candle near abdomen should keep; why is that ? bindu: oh it is a technique of meditation for some people not all; it is for those who are on the path of kundalini ... sadhu: ohhh bindu: Sri Kundalini does not come to all in the form of flame. Many people run about saying OH OH... MY kundalini is awake she has awakened!!... that is pure rubbish...MAA is always awake; however, when the flame ignites in the body thru strong and consistent tapasya... the flame can be seen to grow and grow and consume you. sadhu: Mother It is The Mothers duty to take care of the child. bindu: Yes, then there is an absolutely mighty devestating and unmistakable rush up to the heart then the top of the body is blown into millions of fragments then one might See Ananta. This will be according to the sadhhu's belief in Him. That is anantanatha. sadhu: Does it gives any pain inside body ji? bindu: No there is no pain. but it will not come till the body has gone thru a great deal of transformation already... for example if it happened to a normal person it would kill them instantly. sadhu: Kill them ? bindu: i mean if a person who was not ready for it, COULD get it .. they would die; thus the yoga must make us ready but this is the path of kundalini Sakti ... few go this way sadhu: ohhh body should get prepared before we start do it right? bindu: Yes, but the body cannot be gotten ready in a short time; i takes years of strong meditation and self-developement. However some teachers have said that the jiva may have spent many lifetimes getting ready for it so it might happen in a moment without any tapasya.<< Saying that is irresponsible opf them and is almost a total lie, as when the body of the jiva is born it is empty and like clay just taken from the clay pit: it must be molded and gotten ready to contain the honey. the process of living and doing yoga re- establishes the Sharira. (soul) in the body at the level that it was in it previous to death in the last life-time... Once that body-mind complex is developed to the degree that it had before, it will then progress; to say it will progress before re-establishment of the fully developed soul in the body is nothing short of rediculous. That is why even Krishna, Rama_krishna Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, Nityananda, Rama and all other saints .. even Avatara's must do sadhana when they ae born. That i why i give stark warning at the Yogic fire website sadhu: what are the conditions for this ji bindu: The conditions are to first become a dedicated bhakti to Maa in the form of Love herself,,,, then one must conquer ALL fear.... It is a very hard road. sadhu: ohh bindu: The mantra is easier. sadhu: Do u think everyone should do kundalini yoga ? bindu: No i don't, but you should know this---> sadhu: ji guide me bindu: Those who are ready for ANY certain kind of yoga will find the way by meditation upon The deity or avatara of that path or religion. sadhu: How many ways are there to reach god then kundalini yoga ji ? bindu: sri krishna has said that those who are his devotees (bhaktas) to them ALL yogas will acrue (acrue means come automatically) sadhu: Yes, i pray to lord Shiva! bindu: See this page: http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu:/anantayogaweb/essays/will.htm bindu: Connect the references to " The heart in this file... to the description of the heart from the yogicfire site.. and also make the connections to it with the description of the SELF above.. ALL are the heart... which is another way of refering to lord Siva. sadhu: oh bindu: It is THE Saharara .. but what is not known is that the Sahasrara is Goloka. It is infinite and does not end in the head.... it is not belonging to anyone it is His abode. (It is Goloka, Heaven etc.. Hence all things appear in it .. also YOU your thoughts....... all thoughts of every being and also existence itself shine in it AS the Cosmos; hence the Cosmos is HIS CONSCIOUSNESS but He is existing prior to it and beyond it in His transcendental state that cannot be spoken of because words and thoughts APPEAR IN HIM ... for that reason they cannot describe Him; they are merely pointers or sign- posts to HIM. sadhu: At your site you wrote: " I am not saying don't use your will, i am saying use it only to keep the focus on the heart continuously you see to achieve the end (in time) this means no alcohol, no drugs, no cigarettes. sadhu: oh dear i smoke cigarettes bindu: ah! you MUST absolutely MUST give it up or you will not make any progress at all; He comes in the breath but you are poisoning Him do you understand? sadhu: yes yes ji, i understand. bindu: i also used to smoke, i said i like it, so i will not give it up . sadhu: oh bindu: one day he made me give it up... then ONLY After i gave it up...___>>> this happened--> http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu:/2004/aprilweek3.htm bindu: read it. It was completely unexpected and came suddenly, you have to give it up or you will not find Him i can garantee that. sadhu: A married man can do this yoga? bindu: Yes, i was married......... sadhu: A married man can do kundalini yoga? bindu: Yes, but they must practice tantra in a certain way. bindu: are you a man or woman? sadhu: oh it differs as per sex ? i am male. bindu: Yes, it does .. women are already mothers even if they have no children they will mother someone or something what is your age? sadhu: my age is 25 bindu: ok adhu: iam married two years ago. 2.5 yrs sadhu: are married men suitable for kundalini Yoga bindu: It can be done yes. Do you have a Guru ji yes? sadhu: Yes ji. bindu: hmm, why have you not already learned from him what i have told you so far? sadhu: He has taught me Siva bakthi. bindu: mmm.. sadhu: Raja yoga is separate. bindu: I see. So you think i am a Raj Yogi? sadhu: Yes, one who follows yama and niyama all u must be ji. bindu: No i am not... Ananta Yoga is combined with all... it is integral yoga. sadhu: ji please tell me what to do... i am ready to do as Siva devotees order. bindu: hmmm .. i have been thinking about you today.. Do you know i have students all over the world? sadhu: Yes. The guru should always find good students because00 students are without knowledge as to how to progress om the path.. The Guru already has knowledge. bindu: From your questions when last we spoke i can see you are at a time in your sadhana when you need to spend time with someone who can advise you in a correct way. bindu: Perhaps so but i do not take students often. Dear what should be the relationship between guru and shishya? sadhu: Only gurus like you can help one who does not know the path. The term Guru referes to clearing the darkness students are like babies. bindu: Yes. If he or she commits to the student it is for the rest of the students life. The guru will never desert the student; so that student has to be ready and worthy; do you aggree? sadhu: yes ji 100% But students who are not ready it means they are in darkness. They are blind it's the guru's duty to show the student the way to light. bindu: The mind is blind dear. sadhu: hehe yes ji bindu: It is like a blind man trying to describe the color by feeling the rose. sadhu: i was thinking from today morning guru should find us or student should find guru. bindu: mmm sadhu: hehe yes ji sadhu: Yes, the color cannot be understood by the touch. bindu: Porul please tell me what sadhana's you have been doing till now? sadhu: no sadhana ji; i am just nothing.Just always chanting His name; just doing pooja and punaskar bindu: mmm In which form? Japa? sadhu: Well, not in any displined form ji. But Japa yes; always. Some days Japa will be spoiled by the mind sadhu: some days, all the time. When i try with displine with japa beads.. My guru said why do you want to count and do something? instead do it all the time. From that day i left all beads and counting too. bindu: Yes good good sadhu: I always just chant when driving, even when sleeping. Tis continues all the time except when the mind is involved fully in another activity. If i forget i chant again bindu: Good good ... excellent. So what mantra is it? sadhu: Panchara , ajaba, pranavam these three are equal according to my guru ji. He asked me to use or do the one that is comfortable for me. bindu: mmm sadhu: We dont include aum before shivaya nama mantra, the focus is on diksha of saiva siddantam. Because aum is param porul. bindu: mm good good sadhu: aum alone same meaning comes for shivaya nama. bindu: yes yes . sadhu: Same with ajaba soham thankyou ji do you think i am ready for this ? bindu: mmm... did you read the file i sent you ji? sadhu: yes ji bindu: ok... so you are familiar with all those ideas and concepts in it ... but the part i am most interested in talking about is the Soham Mantra section... sadhu: No no. i am not familiar with it. please dont think i am. i know one page or another page in a book sadhu: only gurus may know the full book or many books. i am not still good enough in what i am doing ji. bindu: mm... ok sadhu: Today is my janma nakshatra; that's why i am talking with a great guru like you. bindu: i see.. what work do you do ? sadhu: i was running restaurant and got a loss so i closed it now i am taking care of building which i have given for rent. Collecting rent etc. and running a guest house with 15 rooms. bindu: i see and your wife ? sadhu: My wife just graduated bsc physics. bindu: ah! sadhu: i finished hospitality mgmt from AHMA. bindu: All right. sadhu: ji where you are from ? bindu: i am australian; i was raised in the desert and far outback ... sadhu: australia is a nice place bindu: yes it is ... very nice sadhu: common people common land planet controled by chandran .. that's why many people from there are very clear minded. bindu: you are interested in astrology? sadhu: Yes ji i am very interested bindu: astrology it is about the objective world ... in the Consciousness of the SELF it is just like an illusion. sadhu: The UK is controled by the sun that's why they captured many countries. bindu: We are interested in the way to go to the SELF not in how to understand the prison. All we need is the key to get out of jail sadhu: One who is rich with planet mercury will learn astrology and if jupiter on 9th house even if they are out from vedic they will surely learn astrology. sadhu: yes yes ji. But vedic astrolgy was developed by self-realised souls am i rite ? bindu: The workings of the prison and the energies that drive it are of no use in finding the way out. so .... about the astral world then and the lokas etc.. the places where the gods are said to dwell... sadhu: sadhu: who will realize god and who won't its decided by God and we can find out that also via astrology if the astrologer is an expert . bindu: No, that is not so. No-one will realize Him... not ever.No- One has ever realized HIM.. HE realizes Himself because HE IS THE SELF IN ALL BEINGS.. The Jiva CANNOT tell himself who he is ... the reason this is so ... is ..... that the jiva is the reflection in Sri Krishna's Conscious Being of HIMSELF... but just as your own relfection in the mirror cannot act wiothout you nor can the JIva act without HIM.. sadhu: yes ji a very clear explanation. bindu: Hence the Jiva\soul\ego\ID\individual has no-self nature of his own sadhu: yes ji. i've wondered many times if we are Him. But why do we have problems? Why are we subject to karma? Why does this play comesarise in Him? It is all very mysterious! The " i " is 100% a jivah and part of Him. bindu: No dear, it is very easy to understand and very clear..there is no mystery. Remember in Ramayana. Arjun lost his self... then he could not gamble as he had no self... sadhu: oh! sadhu: plz tell me ji. bindu: Well the karma is like the following ... pay attention you will find the answer.. 1st since the jiva has no self HOW CAN HE HAVE ANYTHING TO OWN THE KARMA WITH.... so who is it that HAS the karma? it does not belong to jiva because jiva is a reflection .......... but the karma makes jiva WHAT HE IS....... it forms him...... and filters his experience of existence (vasana) ...... ... BUT .. Who is it inside him that is conscious of the experience........ it IS NOT JIVA .. it is SRI Krishna! See this page: http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/yogicfire/jiva/jivaindex.htm bindu: So then the uncoutable numbers of Jiva in this world (all beings have Jiva) not just human... also gods , asuras, demons, angels, archetypal beings... ALL have Jiva in them... The uncountable numbers of Jiva in this world are existing AS THE MODES OF SRI KRISHNA'S consciousness For example: In Siva sutra it is written that HE IS FREE in ALL MODES OF HIS OWN CONSCIOUSNESS! bindu: It means every mode of HIS consciousness is existing " AS and thru each. sadhu: i understand this ji.. but why and for what did it come into existence? This question arose in me when i was 4 or 5 and i still have not found the answer to it. bindu: Why all the things came? Why all the Jiva came? Why the Cosmos Came? sadhu: yes ji, yes ji, thats wat i am asking. I accept that we are created by god. But who created Him why did this all happen. People say that even if we have 6 brain we still can't find out. Shiva puranam describes first param supreme soul came and he created vishnu and he created brama to 7 rishi then to make all. Then vishnu changed as pranav, oxygen to maintain it and rudra param amsa came; But why did this all happen? bindu: No.. it is not a mystery at all. So then how it all came about and why It came about like this---> In Gita Sri Krishna says: " Oh Arjun, all things exist in my potency; He specifically says to Arjun " ALL " things EXIST IN MY potency. This means that everything IS NOW IN HIM and IS HIS POTENCY.. it means that the maya is HIS POTENCY>>. potency means potential......... so we will talk about this later today meditate on this today. You can read this website also: http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu:/animbindu:/animbindu:.htm *************************** bindu: today i have decided to write it out in detail as many ask the same questions.. so i will tell you how it all came so then... i will begin with the transcendental self (Sri Krishna)... sadhu: yes ji bindu: In himself HE knows Himself ... BUT ONLY HE knows..... on this earth there are many religions and the gods of those religions are believed in by the rs.... but GOD is neither Krishna nor not Krishna.... neither allah Nor not Allah... HE (or it) is GOD... He has many many names. But He is ONE.... (or IT)..... He is neither it nor not it.... neither HE nor SHE... He is " ALL " when we talk of GOD in HIMSELF.... <<< this is before the cosmos came; before time and before being ..... prior to existence. This formless Self is what the Advaitins call the Supreme Self.... they deny a personal self and rightly SO... Yes.... (They deny the existence of Jiva " AS " Self ... which is correct... but then the existence of God is also denied by them... what is missing from their philosophy is the fact that HE (when He appears AS the personal GOD) in which billions believe.... is appearing in a form which validates the existence of ego at the level at which that jiva is existing and knowing ......... Think about the last line for a minute or so before we go on. So regardless of what or who or of what form GOD is in.. HE IS GOD even in the formless... Now then we will talk about how the formless becomes form. You called it the Siva linga... . sadhu: yes ji bindu: But there is another way to talk about the same thing, using quantum physics which links it to the form sadhu: God is in aruvam (formless) - empty, god is with uruvam (with form) it's statue and formless form it's linga bindu: Yes but let us go step by step and make it totally clear. sadhu: yes Ok. bindu: Stay with me here, we will cover everything sadhu: ok Then i can flesh out the unwanted. bindu: i said yesterday how Sri Krishna says everything exists in His Potency.... i also said that His potency is actually His Maya ... bindu: . bindu: so then think of the following>>> think of a space ship in space... but there are no planets .... no stars ... nothing but that spaceship exists.... there is nowhere else... the unniverse does not exist except for that spaceship it is emptiness to infinity.... there is nothing........ bindu: think of that... when you have it in mind tell me... . sadhu: Empty we can think with darkness without that its very hard. bindu: Yes... so then now that spaceship ceases to exist. there is nothing............ no distance, no time ... no possibility of measuring or knowing because there is nothing there to compare distances . hence there is no possibility of measuring even atomic movement .. because there is not anything to move between another thing .... sadhu: yes yes ji yes no space also ..no air , no colour bindu: That space then is absolute......... it may be infinite..... it may be so small as to be nothing... but it cannot be told how big it is or is not.. sadhu: how to think something without anything, it's un imaginable. bindu: so then when we imagine that space ..... it is as you say, spaceless. this is then the Absolute ...... ... now then in that spaceless space.. there is potency .. it is potent........ it is PURE Para-Sakti....... Why?>>>>>>>>>>> because a space or nothingness such as that has the potential to be and hold and\or contain anything at all.... it means that everything is in it in potential form.... i.e. it is like the source of IDEA itself.............. sadhu: Yes, para shakthi. i am living just 20' from the para shakthi temple bindu: in it then .......... all things are formlessly existing... this means that ... it is like a concentrated (to use a physics term) NULL this is the nila bindu: ... or the Siva Linga... it is at that point pure concentrated ppower .... sadhu: What is the nila bindu: ? bindu: nila (blue) (bindu: = Sphere) this is from Siddha Yoga .... sadhu: okay .. yaaa bindu: It is called blue because it is shining with consciousness. So back to the Linga... This NULL...... shines in itself... because it is nothing..... thus whatever shines in it appears in it... HOW does anything shine in it? >>>>> It shines because .... (now this is where it gets very tricky to describe it) please do not interupt ... i will go very slowly .. you might have to wait a minute or so between my posts. sadhu: okay ji bindu: it shines because it is spherical .... and it is spherical because .... the power and potency is in all directions (but there are no directions because there is no possibility of measuring or knowing anything as having a duration or existence in comparison to anything else..) < << think about that a minute .. This means then that ALL dimensions and distances exist in it in potential form.... which means .......... that ALL forms are in it......... existing only in potential form...... even beings and all else. both tiny and large; all forms and dimensions of all size location and nature are potentially there..... (potentially means they are apparently there due to the emptiness..) THIS MEANS that this potentency IS HIS MAYA!!!>>. >>>>> that is why it is said that the universe neither exists nor does not exist...... (to use quantum physics..... sometimes it appears as a wave sometimes as a particle) so then we are still at the level of the bindu: (Siva Linga).... bindu: . bindu: already in it is everything of every nature and form..... along with all modes of consciousness and unconsciousness <<<< this is of course a full description of existence .... put in an all encapsulating way) bindu: so then sadhu: what does encapsulating mean ji? bindu: encapsulating all means embracing... an absolute summary including everything sadhu: okay bindu: so then that bindu: shines in itself the shining makes the photons of light appear in it then they disappear .. flashing in and out of existence.... just as is described in The Pratybhijnahyrdayram sadhu: Why so ? bindu: They shine like that because they exist and do not exist at the same time....... for example quantum physics has shown this is completely true. bindu: Think of what i said about the nothingness .... everythig exists in it in potential form. so then this means that not only do solid objects exist potentially, but the atoms of which they are made are also only potentially existing bindu: so then we could think of the bindu: or Linga as the primordial ATOM (the very 1st atom from which all else came )...... bindu: so ...... in itself this atom (due to the potency of emptiness) has particles that are exact replicas of itself (reflections) that is why atomic physics works sadhu: yes ji if light cancle it also glows as lingam wave of air also lingam , water ocean also lingam egg is also lingam including all that i can see. bindu: Yes. so then these reflections of itself WITHIN ITSELF cause TIME itself to come into being.... (TIME and all it contains and will contain and has contained comes into existence then because of the movement of light) the movement of light begins as the reflection ... and from that everthing suddenly appears AS THE WHOLE OF HIS MAYA.... His LEELA begins.... ) So then 1st to come is the GOD-being Iswara... why? How can it be said to be a BEING.. or even be conscious? HOW IS LIGHT --- Linga ---- bindu actually conscious? Well the nature of consciousness itself is actually reflection itself.... for example what we are conscious of is the reflection of the percieved thing in the mind... ...... But the question might come: Why is the body living .... does it rely on consciousness ? IS the body Conscious? .. The body in itself does not have consciousness else even in death it would be conscious... no.... but the whole of the universe is CONSCIOUS because the reflections of forces in it (opposite and equal reactions etc) IS the nature of the consciousness itself.... however then it might be asked: When a body dies why does it lose consciousness? It doesn't it never was conscious. sadhu: The Gita States that the Soul cannot be destroyed. bindu: What happens is that the apparatus that displays the contents of consciousness has been broken... the consciousness remains as it always was even before the body came. The soul is another tricky thing... There is only ONE SOUL it is the God..... what appears in the apparatus which we call body.... is the reflection of that SINGLE SELF (it is THE SOUL OF GOD) and it is eternal..... Sri Krishna says in Gita.... " No one lives and no one dies. " He says: " I AM the field actor and the in all fields " . sadhu: When we feel the pain when something happens to our body, does god too feel it ji ? bindu: bindu: Yes that is right, HE feels ALL. But you are getting off the subject So then this SOUL that came into consciousness DUE to the reflection of forces in the bindu: (Linga) goes into and becomes conscious in all beings..... (in upanishad it is said: " He created the world and the beings then sent his sakti into the females and decended to the earth and fornicated with all " .. sadhu: yes yes ji bindu: Now then in Siva sutra it says: " HE is free in all the modes of HIS OWN consciousness. This means He is IN all beings enjoying them AS the modes of HIS consciousness it modulates the apparatus so that the God can experience the being as " A " mode of HIS consciousness .. bindu: i.e. the vasanas.... and the karma make the jiva what he is but it is not belonging to Jiva.... sadhu: In shiva sutra he says he send his male form shakthi that is vishnu to be as air (pranav) that is oxygen to maintain the world. bindu: Yes, that is correct also , but you see the paralells that are starting to emerge here? . sadhu: yes yes ji bindu: so then we now go back to Iswara GOD..... At the point at which His consciuousness begins to shine.. (i said above that all the universe comes instantly)... so then do all the gods of all the beings.... these gods are reflections of the first SELF... hence they too have Jiva in them..... from them then come the diverse beings as reflections of the god.... thus we have countless belief systems and religions all originating in the SELF. Hence there are countless perspectives had by countless beings.. YET the SAME SELF (SOUL) is in them AS THE REAL SELF, enjoying them as the modes of His consciousness. Now we are at the Jiva level.... sadhu: Yes ji, my guru also says the same sysm bindu: Jiva has come into being, the reflection in him of THE SELF (and the reflection) IS in him due to the reflective nature of the ParaBrahman (in english it is called the Conscious Absolute). The reflection in Jiva .... sadhu: oh yes ji bindu: Makes it appear that an individual soul is actually existing; but if that were so then everything i have said above is incorrect. Why? If there was an individual soul then there are two beings existing in the omnipresent self (two in the ParamAtma ) which is impossible. No, the Jiva are existing because they are reflections of HIM sadhu: yes ji inside us and outside us. bindu: Yes, so then the variations and types of jiva expand and change and time goes on .... sadhu: in tamil for god we say kadavul ( it means thannai kadanthu than ullayum ullan) it means in english he is outside also inside. bindu: Yes. but that will also mean he is between the particles of the atoms. Science has shown that this is between is space; but science has not shown that this (let us call it super-space) is actually conscious yet it is because the thoughts in the mind are seen as if in space by the witness of them in our minds. Thus we have different variations of every species and within species so now we will go back to the astral level. The level at which gods and archetypal beings are said to exist. When the Iswara comes ..... there are countless reflections in the consciousness of Himself at first these are gods as i said above. They are not really real they are reflections of HIM in HIMSELF; just as in you there is the reflection of WHO you think you are. They think of themselves as the reflection.. but in you as well as in them there is the Jiva existing as the concept of self. but the REAL SELF is the Self in ALL even gods and men... insects, fish, mamals, birds.... ALL are modes of his Consciousness. Are yu understanding so far? sadhu: Almost ji. i will read it again later. bindu: Ok. So we will go onward....>> . sadhu: yes ji further. bindu: The thinking in all beings appears and IS the reflection IN the Being of the what the self is experiencing.. or it could also be called the process of actually being conscious. i.e all beings appear to be conscious but THEY are not conscious, because that which is appearing in them AS thought, is going to THE INNER SELF THU them..... How can this be said? Thoughts arise as if out of nowhere... they exist for a moment then disappear into the past... just as yesterday also disappeared into the past. So they shine for a moment then disappear.... they change even as they are shining because from the thoughts, other thoughts come; replacing the old one. It is fluid - like a river flowing back to God. So then NOW to Lord Siva whereby it is said the Ganges flows from heaven into His mind. This means that that which gives life and being is coming thru his consciousness.... Thru the Consciousness of the Self.... (the river signifies that which gives life). So then when we look at a thing in the room, the light rays travel to the eye and then thru the optic nerve etc... and the brain interprets this and then we see the object; but time has passed since we looked at the object... hence what we are seeing is the past just as the light of a long dead star may reach us today as it travelled billions of light years before we see it... so we are seeing light which existed in the past. sadhu: yes ji. bindu: In the same way we are seeing NOW what is past.... hence we cannot see HIM becuase He moves " AS " existence before we existed. sadhu: I see. bindu: This means that in the absolute NOW.. there is NO UNIVERSE at all; it has not come out of or appeared in Him yet. so then when we see it is said it has come into being ... we have become conscious of it! But it is not WE who are conscious it is HIM! So then back to the gods.... The nature of each god is according to the mode and nature of being upon which that light ray is traveling in the bindu: in relation to all other light rays ... hence there are different time-lines all going around in lines of force ... just as Albert Einstein showed us in his theory of realtivity. See this website. http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/animbindu/animbindu.htm Thus space is curved. Then if we were to travel along that curve we will arive at nowhere, in that case space will collapse upon itself. Think of the following.... sadhu: OK bindu: When we look at an object there is a distance involved between it and us else we will not see it... sadhu: true ji bindu: Also to see it in sharp focus we have to have the correct focal length or else have that corrected by eye-glasses. sadhu: yes ji i wears glasses. bindu: The correct focal length is achieved at the absolute center of the distance between the obejct and the back of the eye. bindu: i.e it is achieved at the infinite zero point in the middle this means that all things exist in INFINITY.... and appear in it as if solid.... so then if we expand in this idea; and think of the absolute center it cannot be gotten because we will simply continue to divide to infinity. bindu: hence then, the seer (the one in us who is seeing ) .... is that actual INFINITE ONE... hence it is ALL His CONSCIOUSNESS and everything is appearing in it just as the Advatins say. However. He is existing before and prior to what is appearing in Him, else who would become conscious of what? . sadhu: Yes! bindu: So then to say that He is the Absolute consciousNESS is incorrect..... HE IS " THE CONSCIOUS ABSOLUTE " who HAS CONSCIOUSNESS as a result of HIS existing...... < this means it comes in all its diversity BECAUSE HE EXISTS!.... it does not mean He actually goes out and creates anything. It means all things are reflections and just as with all copies the copy is not the original ... the copy gets less like the original as time goes on yes? sadhu: yes ji bindu: So then it all comes automatically BECAUSE HE EXISTS!!!..... then all the variety .... all the diversity, all the different qualities of life and so on come into being because of and exist " AS " the modes of His consciousnesss.... . sadhu: Yes. That's what we say in percentage level if its 100% then its param. bindu: Yes now then...... we will talk about the Karma, Kriya, and Jnana. If " ALL " the modes are HIS it will mean ALL THE KARMA Is HIS too . sadhu: YES! bindu: And if that is so and all that i have said is true ... then ALL the Kriya is HIS.... and that will then mean that ALL that is known is known by HIM... which will mean ALL JNANA as well as the ajnana is HIS. So in Gita Sri Krishna says: " To he who is my devotee will accrue ALL YOGAS oh Arjun! " OM Tat Sat! Now then the question as to whether one can make good or bad Karma comes up... which means is there good and evil? or is nothing either GOOD nor EVIL. sadhu: Yes yes ji, we act on every act according to Him but we have options. bindu: Well then..... the GOOD is according to the Karma and so is the EVIL..... but the modes of good. of love.... and the modes of lovlessness ... Of EVIL are the very thing which make the JIVA " A " mode of HIS consciousness because without the levels of good and evil there can be no difference between each Jiva! Hence in that case neither could there be MODES of His consciousness sadhu: YES! bindu: with the Jiva existing in and " AS " a certain mode of HIS consciousness (because there are reflections in the JIVA of the experiences that THE SELF is having thru that JIVA) change and growth towards realization of WHO HE (The Self) actually is, happens! bindu: then the ability of the apparatus to understand (reflect HIM truly) gets developed and grows... So then each JIVA evolves towards dissappearance IN HIM. See the yoigc fire website: http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/yogicfire/ bindu: Then the realization is HAD in the Jiva BY THE SELF... it is NOT HAD or gotten by the JIVA because self-realization is exactly that ( " IT IS SELF realization) it is not JIVA realization. The SELF becomes conscious as to who HE is IN THE Jiva but the word " IN " does not mean INSIDE the body of the JIVA. sadhu: oh then? bindu: It means inside the very atoms of the JIVA... but at that level.... due to the fact that the atoms of the body are not disconnected from the outer universe; atoms are atoms are atoms and the universe is made of them. This means that the realization is had in the heart or INNER space which is the same space within which the entire universal field of atoms exists. (( there are spaces in each atom ... this space is connected to other spaces in other atoms this means that the space is universal... not local. So then the universe (paramAtma) realizes who He is in the space of His own conscious Self. (ParaBrahman) Om Tat Sat. He does not only know it while in samadhi. HE IS SAMADHI ITSELF! He did not become .... He always was... The universe is his being existing " AS " His potency. When i say Samadhi i am meaning immersion inside Himself like a yogi who is meditating. He is sitting beneath the bodhi tree in His own garden. The Cosmos is That garden! So then when the realization has come about. That one in whom it Has happened, does not think of himself as if he is a man anymore... he does not think of himself inside as if he is a being or jiva. He does not think of himself at all Inside him he only refers to himself as the Self and is beyond being; he knows himself as the eternal; he knows that in all beings he is existing " AS " The Self in them. He does not need to go into them or know what they are thinking; he is freee in all the modes AS the modes of consciousness. sadhu: Yes, we divide maharishi yogi siddars into 3 types one is nyna yogis , samadi siddars they always raise their kundalini and attach theselves to paramaSiva. bindu: Yes, The realized one he does not concern himself with any particaular mode ... he can appear crazy, sane, mad, emotional, angry, full of love, free, bound... nothing is beyond him... he can go about with or without clothing he is clothed in the universe. He is naked-of-self! He has become an Avudhut! So then today i have told all and how ALL. If you have questions after studying this please make notes and ask later sadhu: What is an Avudhut ? bindu: It means one who goes about naked-of-self, but many have come to think it means to go about without clothes. The Avadhut has no self.. it does not mean he is naked. sadhu: You mean general clothing or body meat ? bindu: It means he has no self of his own. sadhu: yes ji. I understand. he is totaly attached to ParamaSiva but still he remains in this world. it is the highest stage. bindu: Yes. sadhu: Thank you ji I will go through it again. Fully bindu: Good good bindu: i want you to ask questions to cover any dark areas as i want to post this online to show the whole philophy philosophy please make notes for me. sadhu: okay ji, sure so all can understand right? bindu: Yes sadhu: okay ji, i will prepare. bindu: Good good ... since your wife is into physics she may like to share it ji. See you this evening sadhu: yes ji bindu: Namaste __/|\__ Jai JAi Ram Namaha!! sadhu1, Porul jai jai radhe krishna bindu: prabhu ji. sadhu2: He is away ? or here ? sadhu1: Our father who art in heaven. bindu: hallowed be thy name, Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven, Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen. For thine is the kingdom the power and the glory forever and ever amen. The last line is what i am concerned with we should trust His integrity to use His power with love... it is when we do not trust or have faith in Him that He becomes mischievious. He does that to make us understand the consequences of our mistrust. sadhu2: Who ji ? sadhu1: yes jai jai God. bindu: God dear who else? sadhu2: oh sadhu2: God is he/she/it - everything i am god you are god and bindu:ji is also god everything is god. Flowers, trees, stones.. ALL. bindu: Everyone goes to the temple, the mosque or church to pray for help and objects then they go home... but instead if they go about in confidence the he\she (GOD) will act with integrity then the lessons He will give us will be on how to love not on how to find our way back to Him. God is the self in all beings and all things yes. So then have faith in The Self not in the jiva who is the false self the importance of trusting in the integrity of The Self cannot be stressed enough this simple thing causes all our problems .. this lack of trust (lack of faith). sadhu1: The process of trusting.... what is that dependending on? There must be a reason for lack of faith and lack of trust ji. bindu: Yes. It is depending upon surrender ... upon acceptance ... upon believing in His natural and total goodness. oh there are as many reasons why people do not trust Him as there are grains of sand. sadhu2: One of the main reasons is that ketu or mercury didn't support them bcause of their past karma.They won't even belive if god sits down in front of them. bindu: But all are due to the fact that to exist as what seems to be a sepaerate being, the jiva has to have discord else he will not appear different so mistrust is about self-willfullness . bindu: Yes karma is caused by acting in selfish ways (the source of selfishness is the desire to exist as a separate being from him... sadhu2: yes ji. bindu: The will of the jiva is to do everything to validate the existence of Jiva everyone lives and is acting selfishly to a degree; that is what makes each jiva seem to be a different being; the consequences of acting that way is that the life which the jiva experiences reflects his selfishness. sadhu1: hmmm bindu: hence he will get trouble for his lack of faith in the Self; on the other hand if he believes in the integrity of the Self he will smile inside and know that the Self is full of deep integrity... hence he will go about in bliss-consciousness. sadhu2: oh bindu: devotion is that simple; faith, trust, belief in the integrity of the Self.... <<<< this comes from the recognition that the jiva is the cause of his own problems. For example we get the results of our actions our lives are reflections of our self-esteem. so if we come to understand who the self really is we will know that the Jiva is NOT who we are. Then we will have the self-esteem of the self and trust in His integrity due to this deep Love of self ..... <<<< this is NOT conceit it is self-recognition .... conceit is about beleiving in the Jiva " AS " self, which is rdiculous because we cannot put the Jiva in the position of recognizing himself as existence-consciousness-bliss without his disappearance into the whole like a drop in the ocean. The jiva disappears in the presence of god because god takes up all space and being; jiva thus must exist in chaos and discord (Time); he must go from one calamity to the next, his very survival depends upon this so then learn to trust in the integrity of the Self.... for example a man that is not insane has faith in himself.... in jiva... thus he gets challenged by existence at every turn to prove his worth and his reality ... he has to validate his existence at every turn. He is insecure selfish and empty of Self. Instead he should have faith in the integrity of the one who is THE SELF existing in ALL beings even gods sadhu1: Is this the illusion of duality? bindu: yes dear. sadhu1: But it seems like this illusion is needed in terms of developing the trust in the SELF. bindu: yes, that is why the jiva exists. to lead the self TO The SELF. It is the process of the SELF becoming conscious this process exists as existence itself i.e. existence is the foundry (factory ) of consciousness and self-realization (The Self realizes The SELF thru the entire process of existence existing. " All " the Jiva and their various takes and perceptions upon and of reality, are the modes of HIS conscuiousness Siva Sutra verifies this; as does Sri Krishna Himself. So then to not trust in the integrity of The Self (or God) is selfishness and will only bring pain. Now then The Self is manifest " AS " existence in all its variety of form and HE (God) is worshipped by every person in every religion in every way (HE is worshipping HIMSELF in countless ways " AS " God thru " ALL " religions!); it is the body of the ParamAtma ... it is The form of Sri Krishna. sadhu2: If we do not trust The Self, whom to trust then ? bindu: no no dear, you missed that last meaning... it means if we do not trust in the self we are being selfish To Trust in HIS integrity means beleif in HIS goodness and compassion; Belief in The Self honesty .... sadhu2: oh okay ji bindu: For example if we do not trust in the integrity The Self we get the consequences it is simply a matter of common sense one does not have to be intelligent. Sri Krishna says in Gita : " To HIS devotees (to HIS baktis) all yoga will accrue (come) they do not have to practice pranayamas and such; asanas, mudra and so forth. Pure trust in HIM... means to know HE does all, then the actions of the body are irrelevant. So now i must go to work.. but HE is working thru me to transform my being, so i go to work with joy trusting in HIM.. sadhu2: oh okay ji. bindu: Namaste ... Jai Jai Jai Sri Krishnaaa sadhu2: Thanks for the explaination ji. sarvam shiva mayam. sadhu: Cultivating my own goodness is selfishness ? bindu: No it is not because it is HE who is cultivating " ALL " fields; remember in Gita HE says: I am the field and the actor in " ALL " fields. bindu: Namaste, i must go now... Om Tat Sat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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