The Reflection of The Self

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The Reflection of The Self

 

b: Namaste my dear __/|\__

 

sadhu: namaste sir, respects. how are you ?

 

b:

i am very well and how are you?

 

sadhu:I m okay

 

b: this might interest you dear ->

 

b:

http://groups.msn.com/AnantaYogaSchool/satsang.msnw?

action=get_message & mview=1 & ID_Message=184

 

sadhu: thanks

 

b: i will come to India in December this is my promise, it has been

decided now

 

sadhu: That will be great sir, it is very much required

 

b: and how is your family?

 

sadhu: They are good ...

 

sadhu:

sir,

 

b:

m?

 

sadhu:

Do the two statements: " There is no Jiva at all " ,...and there is no

Jiva other than Self mean same thing ?

One of the guys buddhist said that there is no jiva at all; but

somehow my inner psyche refuses to accept that.

 

b: jiva does not have any self-nature ... i.e he has no self....

 

Saying there is no jiva other than self.. is a very unclear and

irresponsible way to say it. What should be said is that the Jiva

cannot exist unless there is THE SELF... this is because the Jiva is

the reflection of the self in his own conscious being.... and.......

just as YOUR own reflection is nothing without you and cannot act

without you... nor can the jiva act or do anything without The Self

(God)... because the actions of the Jiva are only reflections in the

conscious being of The Self or GOD.. .when God is doing this or that.

 

sadhu:

yes I understand that, but I do not know why Jiva should be proposed

first and then denied; It brings in fear immediately. Why not allow

it to melt ?

 

 

b: Yes i agree. Just as the reflection of YOU in the mirror goes away

when you leave the room so does the Jiva leave when we hold onto the

focus on The Self AS God; (when i speak of this SELF.. i am not

talking about Jiva)

he (the jiva melts into nothing) just like is depicted in this page:

http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/yogicfire/animyoga8.htm

 

sadhu: May I please rephrase the same question?

 

b: sure

 

sadhu: I think.......To say there is no Jiva is denial of Ignorance

as being part of Self (or wholesomeness) I don't think it should be

denied as Ignorance is FREEWILL too. Because there is no one who is

ignorant ..He (The Self or God)alone is ignorant or was Ignorant ? am

I right ?

 

b: Yes you are right: this ------> " To say there is no Jiva is denial

of Ignorance as being part of Self <<< is very well said.

 

b: Also this --> I don't think it should be denied as Ignorance is

FREEWILL too << this

 

sadhu:Thanks.

 

b:

and this

b:

-->

b: and this ---> Because there is no one who is ignorant ..He (The

Self or God)alone is ignorant or was Ignorant.

 

b: The last, it is a very deep thing i will see if i can say it

simply.

 

b: HE (God The Self) has all modes of consciousness (He has degrees

of ignorance) and also HE has all knowledge .... HE alone is the

Knower.

 

b: what is known is known by HIM even if it is degrees of ignorance'

hence NO One is IGNORANT

SINCE NO one BUT Him EXISTS. SHALL WE CALL HIM IGNORANT? Of course

not Siva sSutra says: " HE is free in all modes of his own

consciousness " . This means he is THE KNOWER IN and OF all MODES of

being and consciousness also.

 

Hence he is playing all the roles, HE says : i am the field and the

knower in ALL fields yes?

 

sadhu: Yes ..... So it means the distinction between Realized saint

and Ignorant is the one who knows HIMSELF as HIMSELF and He who is

knowing HIMSELF as some personality; and this distinction too is for

ignorant and not for realised saint ?

 

b: You are saying the right thing, very good.

 

The realized being will not say I know myself as The Self (he will

not say my personality is the self, nor will he spoeak in a way that

implies it). The realized one will say: tHE SELF is Knowing

HIMSELF ....

 

For example if you ask me if i realized The Self and i say i did so,

then i am lying. What i should have said is that He (The Self)

realized himself in this man, then after that he made me know Him as

The Self in ALL beings including me. It is The Self who realized the

Self then the recognition happens in the mind as the reflection of it

(the Man comes to see that the Jiva is only the reflection of The

Self in himself.

 

b: Inside me, i do not refer to any form of being or idea or

concept... and say it is ME the man, me the person

me the Jiva. i do not think of myself at all; There is ONLY The Self.

However people come to a realized one and speak as if to the Jiva in

them; saying: Do " YOU " (speaking the word " YOU " implies an " i " or

speaking the word " i " implies a YOU hence separation consciousness or

Jiva-hood for the questioner)

 

sadhu: I understand

 

b: Inside me there is endless Conscious-Self; The " I AM " of me is

without form; to identify with the Jiva AS IF he is THE Self; or to

identify with the JIVA AS IF HE IS the REAL YOU, means you are not

realized. on the other hand to identify with the identityless

formless infinite Conscious Absolute AS SELF, is to be realized.

 

Now then to say the word INSIDE...........or to refer to INSIDE, is

to imply that there is AN OUTSIDE, but there is neither INSIDE NOR

OUTSIDE in terms of THE SELF; the existence, the cosmos , The Atman,

appears in HIM like a reflection in Himself of HIMSELF.... it is in

short his body (existence ... the Atman, is HIS body). SO then

regardless if it is an illusion or does not exist OR EXISTS it

amounts to the same thing BECAUSE it appears in HIS conscious being

AS the Beingness.

 

b: Yet HE HIMSELF, is beyond and HIS cosnciousness of his beingness

(his existence) appears in HIM; for example Pratyabhijnahyradayama

says : HE shines AS existence. hence it cannot be said that HE does

not shine at one time and then shines at another HE is ALWAYS

SHINING;.even qantum physics agrees, (by the fact that it states that

what exists exists as either a wave or a particle of light). thus He

is self-shining and self-caused because HE shines AS existence.

 

sadhu: Yes

 

b:

existence , knowledge, consciousness, all appear in HIM Because OF

him. Thus all modes of consciousness and all modes of knowledge and

degrees of ignorance appear in Him shining as His knowledge of

Himself; hence He is omniscient; He is ANANTA.

 

sadhu: To say that whole cosmos appears to be his body yet again

although whole cosmos is his body yet he is beyond ........is it

saying God with FORM (although his form is the whole universe) is

still is ignorant?

and Self does not have any FORM not even whole cosmos ?

 

b:Yes, because the cosmos is His maya; it is His potential; Sri

Krishna says; Oh Arjuna, all things appear in my potency; thus it is

his Maha Maya; hence it is coming because of HIS iichaa-SAKTI...

 

sadhu: mm...

 

b:iichaa-Sakti means .......... The Sakti of HIS WILL; but he does

not actually have to ACT; it simply happens to shine because shining

is His nature. (or we could say that the nature of consciousness is

that it reflects whatever is in it -- hence consciousness is the

reflection of HIM! or inother words there is nothing but

consciousness). He shines as existence in all itas variety. He is

infinite in form and name, He is in that way omnipresent AS ANANTA;

this infinite is why i teach that we should learn to accept HIM in

all His modes.... This is true renunciation. There is nothing wrong

IN HIM.

 

 

sadhu: Is it wise to say that everything that has taken birth is

proposed and denied at the same time?

 

b:

rephrase?

 

sadhu: i think ......everything that seem to exist other than God is

proposed and Rejected of independent existence at the same time.

 

b: Yes, good good, the reason is that; what comes and appears, is..---

--.. by the time the mind reports it to the witnessing consciousess;

not what it was when the light began to move towards the senses. I

mean whenever we talk i am confused to say whether I should say YES

or NO. The confusion also appears to be understanding though.

 

b:Yes, The confusion is a mode of his consciousness or knowership

also. Clarity - ignorance

knowledge - understanding (jnana - ajnana), and degrees of all those

ARE ALSO modes of HIS consciousness

hence he knows as ants, cats, dogs, fish, animals, men, asuras etc ..

and gods also. All are HIS MODES

He is free in them all.

 

Dear do you recall in upanishad it says: " He created the world and

sent His Sakti down there, then he went and had sex with her in all

the beings; do you recall that? Or the story of Radhe-Krishnaa; it is

the same. The Mother is existence

He is the father.... without her He is nothing at all because He

cannot know Himself ... . She tells Him who He is; just as a

reflection gives us the sense of who we are, so does the whole of

existence state emphatically (to HIM) who HE IS

 

SHE (Maaa, The Mother, Sakti, Radhe, etc) completes Him and He

completes Her, they are completely ONE. Defining each other

form and formlessness bound up in Love...

 

sadhu: Nirguna - Saguna coexisting as one

 

b: Yes, just as star light may be light from a long dead star

(because it took years to come the eye) so what the senses report is

also the past, hence what is ... seeming to be real is not real at

all. it is maya, leela, illusion

He ALONE exists; She ... (what appears ) appears because of HIM. but

once he knows who He is She merges with Him and both disappear Thus

he no longer needs the mirror we cal the consciousness to reconize

Himself; He now knows himself as Ananta Bindu!

 

sadhu: mmm Now i am not sure what should be said ..

 

b: Well dear, some say go inward... but INWARD is not really coorect;

there is NO IN and NO OUT either as all this (including in and out)

are inseparable from HIM; hence in and degrees of out or out and

degrees of IN.... are the very things that are making it look like

there is such a thing as dimension (form) ..... appearing IN HIM <----

hence to say in or out can only be talked about in comparison to all

other modes of in or out .. the same applies to any and all degrees

of knowing this or that............ hence we have to let go of

knowing and just have faith and accept Him

 

sadhu: hehe

 

b: So dear, questions of the rightness or wrongness of a given idea

or philosophy or the opinions of someone over another are all parts

of HIS knowing and knowldge hence even degrees of ignorance upto

total ignorance and then upto total transcendental knowledge-

consciousness, are all HIS modes of consciousness hence this is what

omniscience means

 

He is the knower and doer .. there is no other. He is ALL IN ALL,

some say There is no Jiva others say there is no God, but no one can

deny The Self in them. No one else exists so how can it be said Jiva

exists? In that way He exists AS jiva in all but is not bound by

Jiva. he is full of moksha; full of love and acceptance of Himself in

ALL HIS OWN MODES

 

sadhu: Yes

 

b: So i will edit this and place it online

 

sadhu: Okay

 

b: My dear son please accept my blessings and love. __/|\__

 

sadhu: Thanks sir