Who is IN the mind?

[Guest guest]

Who is IN the mind?

 

Sadhu:how are you?

 

b: i am fine dear and how are you?>

 

Sadhu:fine with their mercy, time moving fast.

 

b: mm

Sadhu: steven, i am still uncertain about false religions. Last time

we spoke you said its o.k that a religion is false as long as it is

done with love.

 

b: Yes, since all is HIM the idea that something is false is

impossible. Following a false path will only show that the one

following it is false .. then he will find The Way to HIM.

 

Sadhu:to my opinion it is very easy to go astray in this world, i

even i have a poem saying that almost everything is ignorance and

false, and only a small ray of light calls you to see the truth.

 

b: the way to HIM is very subtle .. yes. this makes those who will

come to HIM sincere and committed the others go the false ways by the

millions; then they find their way is false and come back to HIM

after exhausting themselves in the delusion. Thus that way also comes

back to him but the long way around. Hence no way is actually false

at all.

 

Sadhu:ah!

 

b: Yet to explain the truth to anyone is impossible as the truth and

how it fills everything and every being also, is far too complex to

understand.... only HE can understand Himself you see. So it is

better just to give a little when asked. _/|\__

 

Sadhu:well, yes, the whole and complete truth remains obscure until

we are realized; but to have truth in doses is a true way of living,

we cannot simply swallow everything at once.

 

b: yes, even great arjun was terrified .. yes.

 

Sadhu:So even when we feed our life with ignorance, if it is done for

God it is a true life as well?

 

b: yes... because later we will exhaust our arrogant idea that we can

do it.. then we will come back to HIM. hence it leads to HIM; but

first some of us have to go thru the hell created by our rebellion

and arrogance; but again it is the long way around.

 

Sadhu:It just seems bizare that a way of religion that is supposed to

lead to God has ignorance in it.

 

b: It is bizzarre yes.. but imagine a man who is a drug addict. after

a long time he sees he is the cause of HIS own death... his behavoiur

did it; his selfishness. If he was not selfish he will find love;

love for GOD, love for Self

love for everyone and everything.. but this occurs by degrees

gradually. so we live many lifetimes and are refined like gold ...

then because of the process of the distallation of the love-

consciousness (which is the presence of knowledge about the sameness

of Love, compassion and consciousness in us), we get a body that is

ready for HIM... THEN HE BECOMES conscious IN THAT BODY and remembers

who HE IS.

 

Previously (since HE is all) HE was choosing to play and not remember

who HE is even though HE was in the body and mind all the time

pretending HE WAS JIVA. but this game he is said to be playing is not

done deliberately (it is not mallicious) because any mode of being or

consciousness is in fact actually one of his modes of consciousness

and is part of HIM just as your finger is part of you.

 

Sadhu:can you give me some practical examples of how a person

exhausts his arrogance?

 

b: mmm... Those things which happen to us that are not good, happen

because we resist love... ... the 1st resistance to love is lack of

faith in HIM or lack of belief in HIS INTEGRITY .... (to say HE has

INTEGRITY, in this context means he has nothing but perfect love and

intentions toward us) resisting love is to put forward or believe in

a self that is NOT HIM.... < THAT is arrogance....

 

The word arrogance comes from the root " TO ARROGATE " which means: 1.

Demand as being one's due or property; assert one's right or title to.

2. Make undue claims to having.

3. Seize and take control without authority and possibly with force;

take as one's right or possession.

 

 

b: On the other hand to only think of HIM and to acknowledge that the

VOICE in our own head is not ours at ALL but HIS... (since HE is

ALL) ... < means to trust HIM completely. SO then belief in his

integrity gives rise to total faith in HIM (faith in GOD) that then

becomes love for HIM; then in the para-bakthi there can be no seeing

ourselves as separate from HIM..... There is no arrogance; Then it is

HE that shines AS the Self in that ONE.

 

b: This means that the jiva never comes to shine by himself.. he

never achieves anything; it is That GOD who is ALL who achieves ALL.

one should not claim ownership or authorship of anything that

claiming is also arrogance; because one must exist or arragoate a

self in order to own it. It is thus selfishness and lack of faith the

results of that arrogance make us hurt and know pain .. because HE

gives us the pain etc. to show us the outcome of our own selfishness

(i.e. pain is the outcome of selfishness) hence HE teaches us by pain

also as well as by love. This is why we call HIM the Sadguru. hence

even pain leads to HIM in the end.

 

Sadhu:yes, all their mercy

 

Sadhu: your words: " Then we get a body that is ready for him... THEN

HE BECOMES conscious IN THAT BODY and remembers who HE IS " - a body

of a devotee you mean?

 

b: Yes He becomes aware of WHO HE IS in the body of the devotee. Then

the jiva's purpose is fulfilled and Jiva goes back to the mother ...

just as did Sita in Ramayana once Rama realized Himself. (remember

his realization was spoken by Hanuman) Hanuman said " You are

Narayana! " (Hanuman is THE MIND) Om Tat Sat!

b:

 

Sadhu:steven, if i can call you this - may i know where do you

derrive all your knowledge from, and how can you be sure that what

you believe is the truth?

 

b: dear friend... i do not know a thing... all this comes direct... i

know it is all true because it agrees with Sri Krishnaa own words...

I do not believe a thing; instead it is a case of faith in HIS

integrity not the integrity or truth of what is said by this man. It

is direct.

 

Sadhu:direct how, from the gita, or another thing?

 

b: well my dear since it is HE WHO has REALIZED HIMSELF in this body

it is FROM HIM ..... after all HE Himself has Said HE IS the Self in

all beings ... __/|\__

 

This is not belief' it is certain truth... going into this man ...

there is no form of self ...... no located individual.....there is

the consciousness and the presence of the Absolute infinitely layed

out AS existence; that man named steven is merely a label for a part

of The Self just as the finger is the name of that part of the body..

but the whole or the finger are still the body; which part is the

body? " ALL? " or is the body more than the sum of its parts?

The label has no selfhood; just as the finger does not mean a thing

without the body nor does the Jiva mean a thing without HIM.

 

Sadhu:o.k, so you say you are are a part of Him.

 

b: Yes just as are all things and beings; but the consciousness in

this " me " is NOT ME, it is HIM; that " me " to whom you refer is an

idea as to who steven is... but the SELF IN this is NOT STEVEN and

the SELF in YOU is not YOU

it IS HIM. It is SRI KRISNAA or GOD or whatever you want to say. In

us both he says " i am steven " or he says " i am sadhu " it is neither

you nor i who say this because someone else is referring to us, and

saying HE IS US. Hence it is plain as to WHO HE IS.

 

 

Sadhu:dear, you should try to consider if this is a belief or not,

since Krishna in gita says, " just as you say " " He is the self in all

beings " , he does not say the self is Him. and just because of your

understanding of these words you have built a complete new theory

about what is the truth, how do we understand what He said in gita?

 

b: Your words>>> " he does not say the self is Him " <<< you are

saying -- that what i am saying --- is; that i think -- the one you

or i might refer to as our own self -- b: is THE REAL SELF.. that is

NOT what i am saying at all.

 

I am saying: that the ONE " WHO SAYS " or referrs to that SELF about

which you speak... IS THE REAL SELF.. and that the ONE HE IS

referring TO IS NOT the real self but is JIVA; so you are missing my

point but since only HE exists.. and the JIVA (as you .. the self is

not him) .... jiva, does not HAVE HIS OWN SELF because that SELF IS

GOD not JIVA.

 

Remember Arjun was gambling with Udistera... he lost everything even

his own self... he has nothign to gamble with then.

 

Sadhu:this is not the conclusion of the gita dear. this is not the

meaning of the gita.

 

b: : We will have to agree to disagree then dear and remain firm

friends. But do you think that even Ramana said these exact

things?... or do you think Ramana was wrong also?

 

All books, Siva sutra included Siva Samhita, Tirumantirum,

Abhinavagupta, Dattreya - all agree with this; so you are saying all

are wrong except you ji?

 

Sadhu:i know, but thought to try to convince you a little this time,

if you are open minded to other versions.but like you said false is

not bad it is just an indirect truth.

 

b: mmm -- All ideas and all knowledge and all paths and all modes are

HIS and all degrees of this and that are also HIS

so then there is no problem anywhere about anything; HE is perfectly

trust-worthy

 

Sadhu:Man gets his ideas from logic, then everything can be argued

upon with logic. and Vedas are for logical people, but since human is

not perfect, his logic is not as perfect as the Vedas and hence may

get confused and make mistakes. The fact that you are saying that all

is Him is due to the way of your thinking and the logic you posses,

so this proves my point.

 

b: yes.. but those mistakes and misinformation are also part of HIS

Knowledge; so there is again nothing wrong since it is HE WHO IS

OMNISCIENT and the KNOWER of all things.... yes, but it is not my

power of logic ... it is HIS and thus what is known of logic is also

HIS knowledge not mine. HE uses HIS intelligence to know all in all,

AS ALL. HE is existing in countless forms AS the BEINGS... knowing

differently due to the vasanas ... then it seems each Jiva has Karma

of his own but NO since GOD IS ALL that Karma is HIS and it is what

makes the Jiva what he is... but the KARMA does not belong to Jiva

hence it is easy to be free of Karma if we give up selfishness and

everything which upholds selfishness. Selfishness means to argue for

the existence of A SELF who is separate FROM HIM.

 

Sadhu:but you did not know this from the beginning of your life, you

had to use your logic to get to this conclusion.

 

b: NO i did not use any logic... not one bit. One day i was

talking ... and HE SAID IT then i knew. Dear ... everything i say to

everyone ... is also taught to me even as i say it; it comes directly

from HIM. Previously i did not know it; i do not sit for hours

dreaming up the massive complexities which you have seen me say; it

just comes out like water from a tap i know nothing of the machanics

of it, it just happens

 

i think it is due to the asking ... as i know HE IS ASKING HIMSELF;

so that in you HE can come to know himself. So ... with your

voice ... he asks about HIMSELF; and with my voice HE speaks to

HIMSELF IN YOU then HE knows in us both; that is how it seems to work.

 

How could a man dream up the massive complexities that i speak? if i

could do that one could call ME (the man) a genius but i am not... i

do not even know who i am... the only thing i do know (i the man) is

that it is not I that knows... i know i dont know; HE KNOWS.

 

Sadhu:truth is not that complex, it is the karma of your mind

speaking. sorry if this offends you.

 

b: LOL no ji... the complexities are spoken of... to show that the

mind cannot understand .... and yes truth is simple but from that

very simplicity all this complexity has come; itis like a million

reflections of reflections of relfections that after a while .. no

matter how smart one is.... one will get lost, or contradict himself.

that is the whole reason why he speaks in such deep and complex ways

(to show that neither the mind nor the Jiva can Understand WHO HE

IS) .. only HE can know HIMSELF ... SINCE HE IS ALL ... that is why

it is called SELF-realization or SELF-recognition.

 

b: dear friend i must say goodnight at this point.. may HE Bless you

__/|\__ namaste

 

Sadhu:o.k steven, so Krishna must sleep according to you.....

 

b: no ji -- the body needs sleep ... HE is Kind enough to allow this

so that the body can serve HIM.

 

Sadhu:so only the one who speaks is Krishna.............

 

b: yes .. that is correct even in all of us. HE thinks, feels,

sings, chants, prays and speaks writes love songs, poems and music to

HIMSELF with all hands Now good night dear one! __/|\__

 

b: BYE now

 

Sadhu:RadheRadhe.