BHAKTI (CONTD)

[Guest guest]

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

wrote:

 

Thank you very much aradhana for this beautiful post on bhakti. It

covered almost all points.

 

But my personal experience is that most of the bhaktas tend to become

fanatics... they are not ready to accept any other path and reject

others' deities with forceful emotions.

 

Why it happens and what a Bhakta should do to avoid being fanatic??

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

, beirut_ka_baba <no_reply wrote:

>Namaste Dear baba and all others,

I will attempt to answer though I cant say if my answer will suffice.

The devotees are not to be blamed themselves so much. This is bound to

happen when unripe devotees follow the bogus Gurus and schools and

thier misleading teachings.Lord Krishna says about

sanskaari/cultivated in good manners and thoughts - he is " the one

who bows to saints/mahapurushas, dietes(devaas) and other superiors

such as brahmins.. "

Now if a bogus or misleading school or Guru asks the follower to

reject Shiva as a demi god or call him as secondary to Vishnu this is

bound to happen.If they are taught to question the philosophy and

principles laid down by mahapurushas and avtaaras and scriptures or

reject them, they are to be blamed less than thier " gurus " . These

schools instill in the minds of thier unripe followers very cunningly

that Krishna or Rama or Shiva will be very happy if they make a person

follower of thier school and how the other schools are misleading and

false.A saadhak can not thinking of making other devotees unless he

himself is self realised.This is kalyuga so rare places and gurus are

genuine whereas most are bogus. Religion is intermingled with

business. Thats why one copy of scripture is sold for rs 300-500 as

against the price of rs. 1 to 10 that the arya samaj and sanatana

dharma temples sell or rather distribute.So the so caaled " Shaivas "

and " Vaishnavas " call other people names if they say that Vishnu,

Shiva and Shakti are not different from one another.The followers of

Rama says that Rama is a superior manifestation and the followers of

Krishna say that Krishna is a superior manifestation.In other words

they reject anything that can favour any other school of business.

 

Just as Bible has been tampered with by various sects of Christianity-

the puranas and other scriptures have been distorted by these schools

in the books that they sell.

 

Its simple as to why one should not be fanatical. The prophets,the

saints, mahapurushas and avtaaras and thier preachings can not be

judged by ignorant or ordinary people no matter how knowledgeable they

think that they might have become.understanding Religion is a matter

of faith and wisdom and not of following schools and bogus gurus

blindly. So I think in todays time its infinitely better that people

make Krishna or Shiva or Shakti themselves thier gurus and not be

decieved by false doctrines and gurus.I myself have thirty two Gurus

but I see them as one and not different from the others.Also I know

what difference having a guru makes to one's life despite that I have

to say that people should avoid making " gurus " in kalyuga since

chances are more than 95 percent that the guru might be false.

 

I will attempt to discuss about why and how fanatcism should be

avoided in next postings.Thanks for the encouragement

Mean while I also wish to know your own thoughts on the matter as to

why and how fanaticism is a hinderance and why people tend to become

fanatical

 

regards to all

 

Aradhana

 

> , " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit@>

[Guest guest]

, " " beirut_ka_baba "

wrote:

 

Why it happens and what a Bhakta should do to avoid being fanatic??

 

--\

--------------------

 

I think this is a natural process of evolution. That one Deity to which they

are so fanatically devoted to, also helps them to get out of that situation.

As in the case of Ramakrishna, Mother Kali herself showed him the way out. I

think in the early stages that strong devotion to one's Ishta helps the

Sadhaka.

 

radhakutir

OM

 

 

 

--

 

 

 

 

Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.0/980 - Release 8/30/2007

6:05 PM

[Guest guest]

> Why it happens and what a Bhakta should do to avoid being fanatic??

 

> Aum

 

people assume sometimes that one rupa/form of God is different from

the others whereas God is only one but he has many forms and names.One

can worship God in any form he chooses but his bhakti will face an

obstacle when he worships one form of God and rejects another for any

reason. This does not mean that he worships all forms of God

necessarily because worshipping any one is sufficient. But he must

accept other forms of the same God and give them equal respect and not

be hostile to them.All forms/manifestations and names of God are the

one and the same.

 

One must not be fanatical as it deludes the person, snatches his

sense of discernment and a grave offence against devotees and God is

committed. Just as the understanding that God resides in every being

of the universe is important so is it important to see all forms of

God as one I feel.All kinds of discrimination in the mind have to be

ended.

 

>Saint Tulsidas says - " I pay my obesciences to the name of Lord

Raghunath- Ram which means KRISHANU/AGNI/FIRE , BHANU/SURYA/SUN AND

HIMKAAR/MOON/CHANDRA AS IN THE SYLLABLES R, AA and M (OF HINDI).Ram is

the cause of all. This name of Ram is Brahma, Vishnu, Shiv rupa. He is

the life force in Vedas,He is nirguna and upmarahit(can not be praised

in words) "

 

Atri muni performed austerities and meditated for a very long time.At

last Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva appeared.He became perplexed thinking

that he had expected the supreme personality to appear but three have

appeared. So he deduced that they were the same God.

In response to this they replied: " yes we are one and the same

person.Because you were worsipping us(God) we three have appeared. "

 

Just as Lakshmi and Visnu are one , Shiva and Shakti are one so Laxmi

and Paarvati , Ram and Sita, Radha and Krishna are also one.Hence

Vishnu, Shiva and Shakti are all one.Maata or Shakti is the feminine

face of God. The scriptures and saints say that everything in this

world is a reflection of that which is there in spiritual world hence

male and female are there in material world too.

 

 

Shirdi Sain Baba(incarnation of God) says(as regarding to the form

of God which one chooses to worship)- " wherever your minds become very

attracted and you are overjoyed consider that place (ie that rupa) as

the place of your liberation "

A devotee asked Shirdi Sain Baba as to what his name Sainbaba meant.

He answered: " Sa means devi/godess and ain means maa/mother.Baba

similarly means pita or father. The father and mother who give you

birth love thier children but in that love thier lies some hidden

selfishness.but Sainbaba's love is completely selfless. They show you

the way, inspires you, shows you the simple and straight way towards

aatmagyaana and aatmadarshan. Besides Sain words is also used for

Parameshwar, Allahtallah and maalik(master) "

 

THIS SERMON CONTINUES. WILL RESUME LATER

 

REGARDS TO ALL

 

ARADHANA

[Guest guest]

> But my personal experience is that most of the bhaktas tend to become

> fanatics... they are not ready to accept any other path and reject

> others' deities with forceful emotions.

>

> Why it happens and what a Bhakta should do to avoid being fanatic??

 

 

Babaji, I think this happens because Bhaktas try to become Gyanis.

 

So most of these Bhaktas form theories of how the Universe was formed,

with their Ishta Devtaa(Shiv, Vishnu or anyone) in the center. They

then have to give other Devas an inferior place in their own theory.

 

But Bhakti is already the highest stage-for a Bhakta to try & form

theories, instead of just loving God with a pure heart, is against

Bhakti.

 

Pure Bhakti is when you love each & every thing & Being created by

God, unconditionally. How can you then claim Shiv or Vishnu are

superior? This is just hypocricy.

[Guest guest]

, radha_sharma_99 <no_reply

wrote:

>

> > But my personal experience is that most of the bhaktas tend to

become

> > fanatics... they are not ready to accept any other path and

reject

> > others' deities with forceful emotions.

> >

> > Why it happens and what a Bhakta should do to avoid being

fanatic??

> oh thats so beautiful! just correct. Thats why I think trying to

accumulate knowledge or gyaana deliberately leads to a temporary

suspension of pure bhakti.Its very appropriate I think for a bhakta

that he keeps immersed in bhakti bcos if I try to start thinking

like a gyaani- " wow I am a viyogi-hoow great is that because its very

fortunate to be a viyogi because viyog has these results " or

that " sanyog and viyog are one " how will I have the rasa of bhakti??

It would be infinitely better that I keep thinking like a devotee-

" oh! how wretched I am that I have to stay away from God even

though he is so merciful to others "

bhakti is a higher stage than the stage in that a person attempts to

accumulate gyaana.total Faith should be kept and solving the

entanglements should be left to God so that with time he can teach

gradually and perfectly through direct experience even if it seems

difficult.

Please pardon me all if I have said anything wrong and do correct me

if you think that I am wrong somewhere.Bhakti should be kept as

bhakti alone unless the gyaana sprouts itself in the mind.

thanks a lot Radha ji :-)for that which u said below

 

 

> But Bhakti is already the highest stage-for a Bhakta to try & form

> theories, instead of just loving God with a pure heart, is against

> Bhakti.

>

> Pure Bhakti is when you love each & every thing & Being created by

> God, unconditionally.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Fellow Sadhakas, Obeisances to all.

 

If we refer Shreemad Bhagavad Gita, we find right advice. Ch.9 Shloka 23-24-25

read as 'The devotees loving no one else constantly think of Bhagavan Yogeshwara

and worship Him in a disinterested spirit, ever united with Him, are brought

under His security and personally atteded to their needs by Him. Even those who

endowed with faith worship ogher gods with some interested motive ultimately

worhip Hom alone, though with mistaken approach. For He is the enjoyer and also

the Lord of all sacrifices; but they know Him not in reality, as the Supreme

Deity, hence they fall in the cycle of libe & death again. Those who are vowed

to gods to to the gods, those who are vowed to the manes reach the manes; those

who adore the spirits reaach spirits and those who worship Him come to He alone

and because of this His devotees are no longer subject to birth and death

cycle'.

 

Many individuals proclaiming themselves as Devotees of particular deity do not

get understood this

fact/principle. As we observe in nature, all the brooks, streams, revulates,

rivers and all flows of water ultimately try to go the oceans, knowingly or

unkwoingly with or without intention and none can escape from natures course.

Those who who try to resist and suceed, become small small ponds with limited

supply and as there is no outflow (i.e. sharing with others), their water, after

some times get contimated, adultered, and a fould, unpleasant smell starts

emaniting from it. It becomes un-usable as well as harmful to its users..

Similer the case of devotees, who act / behave fanatically contemption other

deities and hating other devotees. They are short-sighted, closed

minded/hearted.

 

As they do not shares thoughts, devotions with others through Satsanga, can not

get real and wide perception remain devoid of proper knowledge of Almighty.

Because of this fanatic view only, though we are rich in Knowledge and

Devotion/worship in the world, we are lagging much in the

expansion of these things in the whole human community on the earth. We need

not force or allure or tempt anybody to accept our Religion or culture, we want

to convince them the right way of devotion of their deities. This is the reason

many of the inteligent, rationals and open hearted people are being attacted to

movements like " ISCON " and so many other organizations distributing Aryan and

Vaidik knowledge. We can observe / mark that this Sadhana Group itself is

getting more and more new members. I am sure, whener there thinkers like you are

there to guide us, the number of thirsty ones like me will ever increase.,

search, get and practice for self upliftment up to 'Self-realisation' as well as

'God-realisation'. Thanks and Heartful regards to all.

 

radha_sharma_99 <no_reply > wrote:

> But my personal experience is that most of the bhaktas

[Guest guest]

, keshav daund <keshav_daund wrote:

>

> Dear Fellow Sadhakas, Obeisances to all

 

 

>Keshav ji thanks for the beautiful thoughts. Are you an ISKCON

Follower?This is for all devotees here. Why did an ISKCON person who

translated Srimadbhagvatam say that - " Lord Krishna is God and Lord

Shiva is a demigod.For those who worship God it is not necessary to

worship demigods still Krishna wants his devotees to be respected and

thats why Lord Shiva should be respected. " I was shocked to read this

especially since I have always had and still have great respect for

Srila Prabhupada. To me it seemed an outright denial of the fact that

Lord Shiva is God and not just Mahadeva and a Vaishnava. Can anyone

clarify this? Meanwhile I was also shocked to read at other places how

people of the Shaiva and Vaishnava schools spoke of the other form of

God as lesser than the one they worship.Many caaled Shiva bhagvaan a

demi god.

All this really hurts any true devotee. Why do they say such things??

 

 

Dear baba all these planets tht you mentioned are part of the material

world? What is brahm jyoti? Is it part of the spiritual world from

where the soul never comes back?

 

Radha ji and all others.Why is devotee not satisfied through gyaana?

What do you think is the subtle reason?Why we think that reasoning is

lower than bhakti? Or is it a wrong thought?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I disagree with Prabhupada's philosophy.... I have read many of

Prabhupada's books and I found some of them distasteful. Some were abusing

Shankara, in the guise of glorifying krishna...He rejects all scriptures

other than the gaudia math version, which in my opinion is like the ostrich

that thinks by putting its head into the ground, the world has vanished.

 

In my opinion their style of thinking is the remnant of the age old

vaishnava shaiva infighting.....It is oppressive to the sadhaka and closes

ones mind to other schools of thought.

 

How ever can truth be contained in a set of books???? For them the gita

and Bhagavatham are supreme... They are wonderful books no doubt... but

they are not the only thing that is the truth.

 

A true bhaktha can never hurt another.. even if that person is his

enemy.... But if you are a advaitin or a shiva bhaktha and by chance see a

ISKON person.. the first thing they say is you guys are

mayavadis....deluded... Shankara was sent by Krishna to spread

delusion..... I am sorry, but that takes the cake...

 

In my opinion, Their school of Thought fits the description of fanaticism to

the T

 

When ever I see a ISKON person...

 

I Run like hell....

[Guest guest]

" So you have to approach the Supreme Person, means Krsna or His

representative. All others are rascals and fools. If you approach a person,

guru, who is not representative of Krsna, you are approaching a rascal. How

you'll be enlightened? "

 

I got this saying of Prabhupada from a post here on Sadhana....

 

If this is not being a fanatic... then we have to take a relook at the

dictionary.....

 

I dont mean to hurt anyones views... but this is taking things a little too

far.

 

I heard of a story.....

 

One man used to go walking everyday morning with his walking stick...

He was so uncaring about others that he used to wildly swing his walking

stick while walking.

One young man went up to him and told him that it is dangerous and he must

not be swinging so wildly...

That man said... Swinging is my right...it is my hand and my walking

stick...

 

But then the young man snatched away his stick and told him this...

 

" Dear Sir, your liberty and freedom begins with your hand and stick, but

ends at my nose "

 

Love

 

Bala....

[Guest guest]

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

>

> " So you have to approach the Supreme Person, means Krsna or His

 

Dear Bala, Vivekananda told a very good story.

 

a frog from the lake wandered and fell into a well. the frogs of

the well welcomed him and asked where are you coming from

 

from a big lake - replied the lake frog

 

one frog jumped and covered half of the well and asked - you lake is

that big ?

 

Lake frog_ No far bigger than that

 

Then the leader of frogs came and jumped from one end of well to the

other and asked - yr lake cant be bigger than that... because this

is the biggest water body on earth.

 

Lake frog smiled and said- you cant imagine a lake and there are

far bigger water bodies than lakes...there are oceans too

 

All the frogs gathered and said this is blasphemy as our prophet

told that this well is the biggest water body... so they all killed

him

 

Hari Aum

[Guest guest]

When a Bhakta has no Gyan, he becomes a fanatic- he fails to see the

One Divinity behind all Gods. He loves 1 form of the God, failing to

see the Great Soul that creates all forms of God.

 

When a Gyani has no Bhakti- he becomes a dry intellectual- he fails to

comprehend the great Love the Divine feels for all creatures. He fails

to understand that all knowledge is useless till it gives knowledge of

the True Love of God.

 

I read an excelent thing somewhere: " Love is not a quality of God-

Love *is* God " . The Gyan of Love & Bhakti is the Real & only Gyan.

 

Love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Wow..

 

Shantnu..

 

That was a beautiful answer....

 

Love

 

Bala..

 

On 9/2/07, shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

>

> When a Bhakta has no Gyan, he becomes a fanatic- he fails to see the

[Guest guest]

>

> All the frogs gathered and said this is blasphemy as our prophet

> told that this

>

o.k Shri Bala ji

 

o.k baba . Though my prophet said this..... lol -:

 

Japo Har Shri Nath hamesh, man mein dhyaan dharo

HAR Hari ka naam dhyavo, sab paap mitein kalesh;

SHRI Shakti maata hai sab ke, jinkey sut hain Ganesh;

NATH Shambhu ka naam aradho, Shiv Shankar Bhole Mahesh;

vighan haran mangal ke daata, maata sabki vishesh

dev muni sab pujein jinko naarad shaarad shesh

baal pe kirpa apni kijey hain Ved tere darvesh.

 

Such an approach can make all frogs happy :-)

Happy Janmashtmi TO ALL

 

BEST WISHES

[Guest guest]

> As in the case of Ramakrishna, Mother Kali herself showed him the

way >out. I think in the early stages that strong devotion to one's

 

I dont think Ramakrishna was a fanatic- he never engaged in " My God is

stronger than your God " type of discussions. He respected all

Devas/Devis, even trying paths of Christianity & Islam, & succeeding

on them.

 

Because he respectde all Divinities, & never engaged in petty

behaviour, thats why Kali showed him the way out. I dont any other

Vaishnav/Shaiv Guru had this honour- being able to reach height of

both Dwait & Adwait Vedant.

 

Ramakrishnas Bhakti was a very special kind- he cant be compared to

ordinary Bhaktas, in the same way you cant compare the man who paints

your house to Da Vinci!

 

Love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Dear kesava...

 

May God bless you. I expected a stronger reaction from ISKCON friends.. You

are indeed very mild.

 

In any case...I did not insult Prabhupada.. I just disagreed with him. It

is my right and India is a free country.

 

Just because Prabhupada disagreed with many bhakthas of other paths... It

does not mean he will go to hell.

 

The basis of sadhana is freedom and any group that tries to destroy it using

threats is fanatic... Whatever you might think of that.

 

Also.. At the age of 70 going around the world is a brave thing to do...I

accept I cannot do it.... that is because it is not in my philosophy..

 

Just yesterday 2 indian airforce pilots went aound the world in 80 days.. in

a microlight aircraft.. That I am sure prabhupada could not have done

....forget 70.. even at the age of 20.!!!

 

Different people do different things...

 

In any case... If hell involves freedom of thought and speech... I think you

fellows are looking for enlightenment in the wrong place!!!!!

 

You have a funny bone for sure... You say you cannot curse... but just the

line before... u say i will go to hell !

 

You claim to be the servant to all sadhana members.. that includes me tooo..

so as per your words... you are berating and being abusive to your

master.... Funny!!!! dot take it seriously I was jut joking.... I am master

to none but my self....and servant to none but my conciousness...

 

Anyway dont worry.... You will NOT go to hell... If people went to hell for

minor things like this.... then hell will for sure be over crowded....

 

I Love you and pray that you get all success in your sadhana...

 

Love

 

Bala....

 

 

 

On 9/7/07, Jaya Kesava Dasa <krsnajoe wrote:

>

> Dear Balachander Govindaraghavan,Your Remarks about my Gurudeava,Srila

[Guest guest]

> , " Jaya Kesava Dasa " <krsnajoe

>wrote:

>

> Dear Balachander Govindaraghavan,Your Remarks about my

>Gurudeava,Srila Prabhupada are all very Offensive

 

Namaste all. Jaya Kesava Deva ji please forgive me but I think its my

duty to be honest and speak my mind even though I have no right in

this world to judge or even unknowingly hurt anyone but hurting isnt

my intention.

yes Ramakrishna Paramhansa was a great saint- a bhakti yoga who wrote

a lot in favour of unity of religions ie he did a lot against the evil

of fanaticism from society but just as the parable of Swami Vivekanand

ji says the frog of well will remain the frogs of well.It does not

need gyaana but common sense to understand that God is one. Just as I

got very hurt by that which some ISKCON books mentioned, I or somebody

else will speak against ISKCON as a natural reaction to the outraged

feelings and the ISKCON follower will be hurt. Everybody is getting

hurt because of hurting others! Its not the saints like Srila

Prabhupada (in my opinion) who do this. I have read many books by

ISKCON .I was surprised to notice that in the older editions I saw

Srilaprabhupada praising Lord Sankracharya as the mahatma of India.And

in the newer its altogether a different scene.Sankracharya is being

called mayavadi, Shiva is being called demi god and impersonalists/

those who worship the nirguna brahmn are being called deluded! Its

fine that you say you dont follow a particular philosophy but you have

no right to abuse and hate it either! So I decided that it was

probably not Srilaprabhupada but members of ISKCON who started adding

fanaticism to thier books when Srilaprabhupada was not there as the

head anymore. And what will a foreigner who knows nothing about

Hinduism do?? He will believe whatever he is told because he never

went beyond the well that the books showed him.Now God alone knows

what the truth is.

 

Why blame ISKCON alone? Only because it is famous?? This world is

full of people who are comitting blasphemy in the name of religion.

 

You can follow your school of thoughts without speaking against the

others in your commentaries and books.An ISKCON book said that Krishna

is the greatest. I said indeed he is. Then they said

Chaitanyamahaprabhu is greater than Krishna. I said thats great-yes

Guru is greatest.But according to them Chaitanyamahaprabhu

irrespective of the fact that he is saktyavesa or any other such kind

of avtaara/incarnation(according to their theories) can be called

greater than God but Shiva can not be called God because he is demi

God!! Now what do we call this except fanaticism?? Is it really

Balaji's fault that he spoke like this? What will a person do if he

reads somewhere that except the following school of thoughts no one

else should be made a Guru!? I say its great that Srilaprabhupada

exposed so many cheaters during his life time but that does not mean

all people except certain math people are bogus!An ISKCON person said

to me- " I will expose all cheaters who claim to be incarnations. I

said -fine.its duty of a person to speak the truth. But do we know

all?? Who are we to reject any philosophy or teachings of a mahatma??

Ocean is the water body where all other water bodies meet. Together

the streams, lakes, rivers etc are complete and not by rejecting

others. The truth is broader than we can ever percieve. So just as its

an sin to speak against a particular saint then it is a sin to speak

against any saint or religion in this world and any other incarnation

or form of God in this world!! In your people it is immaturity and in

other people it is blasphemy?? What kind of devotion is this I ask?

Abhoring anyone who follows Sankracharya philosophy? I understand that

a devotee can not follow advaita at all. But it doesnt mean that

Krishna sent Shiva to teach a false doctrine so that people can become

devotees!! Any incarnation of God never speaks anything except the

truth. Now Sankracharya spoke of old Vedantic philosophy and not

something new. But he never spoke against devotees -he built temples

of Hari and Shiva.So ISKCON is more correct than Hinduism by saying

Vedas teach materialism in the name of religion thats why

SrilaVyasadeva was dissatisfied before writing Srimadbhagvatam??

 

Acc to the non ISKCONIST Srimadbhagvatam Vyasadeva was dissatisfied

because his work for kaliyuga people was incomplete without praising

saguna God and thats all.

[Guest guest]

Humble Obeisance to all Sadhakas,

 

Here is some mis or short apprehension of thought of Sril Prabhupada. Supreme

Personality of Godhead is refered to " Purna Brahma " . Bhagavan Yogeshwar Krishna

was " Purna Brahma " and hence when He was in just a child form, Bhagavan Shiva

had gone to Salute Him. Bhrahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are incarnations of Purna

Brahma for specific administration of the Universe. While worshipping one

particular deity, one should be engrossed in that deity only. Whatever is

expressed for others is just to resit the deviation of minds of new devotees

like this God to that God. Demi-gods are not inferior Gods.

 

They have their due respect for every one. We should not take it serious as we

are on higher platform, have read many books, critiques and all. We need not

criticise books in the past. This criticism will increase mental disturbance and

a sense of hatred, which we want to eradicate/root out from hour hearts, will

sprout again. To avoid this please bear with every one patiently,

read whatever expressed and if disagreed, state what is right or 'delete' from

the mind.

 

In Tulasi Ramayana Bhagavan Shiva Himself has stated that He always chants " Shri

Rama " in His mind keepig Ramas figure in Heart. So also Bhagavan Rama has stated

at Rameshwaram that He always worships 'Bhagavan Shiva' and hasHis figure in His

Heart with high respect for Him. It is also warned by Shri Rama that the person

thinking Shri Rama and Shri Shiva as different Gods, is a siner and his worship

will neither be accepted by Him nor by Shiva.

 

When the deities themselves advise us to see 'oneness' i.e Advaita, why should

we bother for what is right and what is wrong expression. We are very small

individuals prone to be swayed away because of ignorance. So be quiet, study,

expreess, be happpy and PLEASE do not criticise any body in person or group. The

past is past and need not be re-opened for discussions on this stage, whatever

is useful, informative, convincing and revealing new

secrets for our advancements may please studied and discussed. Once again I

appeal to be sobre, calm, pleasant and happy. Love everyone for better

advancementin Sadhana.

PLEASE PARDON ME IF OUT OF CONTEXT AND PLACE.

Heartful Regards. = Keshav.

 

i_free_spirit <i_free_spirit wrote:

>Keshav ji thanks for the beautiful thoughts. Are you an ISKCON

Follower?This is for all devotees here. Why did an ISKCON person who

[Guest guest]

*Harikesa:* So it's not possible that anyone's happy? There is no

possibility of anyone being happy.

 

*Prabhupada:* No. One who thinks he is happy, he is number one fool.

 

*Pusta Krsna:* Everyone is searching after material happiness.

 

*Prabhupada:* Yes. But there is no happiness.

 

*Harikesa:* What about if one is in the mode of goodness? Maybe one or

two...

 

*Prabhupada:* Mode of goodness... If he thinks that he is happy, then he is

fool. The mode of goodness means one must know that we cannot be happy here.

That is mode of goodness. And if he thinks, " I am happy, " then he is not in

mode of goodness. He's in darkness.

 

*Pusta Krsna:* So everyone at present is trying to become happy by this or

that activity.

 

*Prabhupada:* They are fools, rascals.

 

*Pusta Krsna:* So if everyone accepts that there is no happiness at all to

be found in this world...

 

*Prabhupada:* Then they are intelligent.

 

*Pusta Krsna:* Then what to do?

 

*Prabhupada:* Yes. Tad-vijnanartham... Therefore you go to guru. Go to

Krsna.

Self explanatory..... no comments (for the fear of going to hell)!!!!!

 

Love

 

Bala....

[Guest guest]

*Prabhupada:* Where is religion in Western countries? There is no religion.

All bogus thing. Religion means to surrender to God. Then where is God, and

whom to surrender? They surrender to senses, that's all. So unless there is

God, what is the meaning of religion? That is not religion. They have

created something, civilized human society. There must be some religion.

Just like aristocracy means he must have a good dog, that's all. There is no

religion in the world except Krsna consciousness. All bogus.

 

*Harikesa:* What is the Pope doing, then? (laughter)

 

*Prabhupada:* He's another big bogus man. The Pope's assistant died in the

prostitute's house.

 

*Pusta Krsna:* In Paris.

 

 

Comments: No comments. (for the fear of going to hell)!!!

 

and I havent made these up.. They are extracts from

 

http://science.krishna.org/Articles/2000/12/00228.html

 

Love

 

Bala...

[Guest guest]

Aradhana...

 

That is a wonderful post...So balanced....

 

It is this balance that makes a sadhaka...

 

Love

 

Bala...

[Guest guest]

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

wrote:

> Shri Bala ji and others namaste. Fanaticism cant be justified

under

> any pretext!!

 

Aradhana you are right that fanaticism is not pardonable...But i

have experienced at least 90 & of bhaktas (that includes christians &

muslims too)....are ready to kill/die for their deity.

 

Even in hinduism, mainly Vaishvanites, reject everything else

besides their deity.

 

Followers of gurus, are even one step ahead. I met 100s of people

each forcing me to accept that their guru is the only True

one....and luckily i have no guru, mainly due to this reason.

 

I think it is human weakness to reject what others think and

glorify their own findings.... in Religion they do it in the name of

their deity or guru.

 

In fact most of the gurus of today, encourage such behaviour of

their followers...

 

I have made my own yardstick... i see if the guru or his

followrs are rejecting others and glorifying their own

path/guru/deity... i run away (like bala runs from isckon..LOL)

 

I have this strong faith that the real guru is sitting inside us

and guiding our every moment... only our ears are attuned to course

sounds and throat is heavy with harsh words... otherwise we can

liten to our inner guru and really make progress..

 

In my case, i can say, the inner Guru never failed me !!

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Dear Bala, Thanks for your wise words .

 

Can someone elaborate the difference between bhakti yoga and blind faith.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Nitin

 

 

 

On

[Guest guest]

Dear Aradhana...

 

I am not expert either!!!! In fact I know very little about Jainism...

 

I am willing to share what little I know.

 

Jainism and Buddhism are twin religions in the sense that both of them deny

the existance of God.

 

Buddhism believes that everything is shunya... Zero and so does jainism.

 

But Jains beleive in Thirthankaras ....Masters (forgive my spelling).... and

Mahavira is the most famous among them

 

What I love about Jainism is their non violence.... and acceptance of

everything...

 

I heard Mahavira's concept of truth contains everything.....Truth and lies

make up the whole truth.

 

Suppose we say

 

* " The Sun Exists " *

 

Of course it is true now......But then this could also be wrong

a few billion years back the sun did not exist and a few billion years from

now the sun will not exist as we know it.

so at that period in time we have to say

 

* " The sun does not exist " *

**

Suppose we are at a period when hydrogen and other gasses are just

forming.... We cannot be sure... they might form a sun. who knows...!!!!

so at that point in time we have to say

 

* " The Sun might Exist " and so on and so forth... " there is nothing called

as the sun " " existance itself is the sun " *

 

Now if you want the full truth... you have to say everything...you cannot

even use time... because there is nothing like time....space is also an

illusion....

 

I am sure there is a lot more.....

 

Would be happy if any body else could enlighten us more.

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

 

 

 

On 9/5/07, i_free_spirit <i_free_spirit wrote:

>

> Shri Bala ji and others namaste. Fanaticism cant be justified under

> any pretext!! it is the worst kind of blasphemy. Those who try to

>

[Guest guest]

I can try Nithin...

 

When I love my mother no matter what happens it is Bhakthi...

 

When I say My mother is the only mother in the world it is blind faith....

 

Love

 

Bala....