Sakshi Bhava !!

[Guest guest]

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan " > In

my opinion sakshi bhava leads to thoughtless stage and in a

thoughtless

 

 

Yes Bala you are very right, both can not be separated..but that is

in the end. I was talking for the benefit of a novice sadhaka.

 

In the beginning one can try to reduce the thought waves by

keeping concentrated on one thought, thus stopping the waves of

thoughts.

 

or one can allow all thoughts to come...and see them as Sakshi

bhava, without trying to reduce them.

 

which method, in the beginning is more reliable...as both are

equally powerful and equally difficult.

 

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Babaji,

 

I can only tell you what method I prefer...

I prefer the witnessing.. as some times in trying to have a single thought

one tends to suppress other thoughts.

 

I struggled a lot with witnessing also... because our forgetfullness is so

deep!!! But by and by the witnessing will become constant....

Automatic....as if we were born with it.

 

This witnessing was jillellamudi amma's method....

 

You are right this is tough, but by the grace of the Lord...nothing is

impossible....

 

One thing can be done... If it is possible to set a small alarm on ones cell

phone or computer every 1 hour .....it will remind us to be watchful.....

being aware 12 times in a day is such a great blessing.... It will transform

us totally...

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

 

On 9/4/07, beirut_ka_baba <no_reply > wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

Most of the problems we face are due to the fact the mind is a

relatively new phenomena on Earth, & we are not used to it. We have

started treating it as God, & forgotten its true function - to control

the Indriya(senses) & organise knowledge( & not gather it).

Unforunately, thats exactly what it doesnt do.

 

In books like Gita & Katha Upanishad, the mind is compared to the

reins which the driver(Buddhi) uses to control the horses(senses).

That is a pretty low position, but as far as most people as concerned,

the mind is all that is! The mind has become like the supervisor in a

factory who starts thinking he is the owner.

 

All dualties of good/bad, light/darkness exist in the mind. The mind

takes certain situations, & classifies them as good or bad acc to its

experience. Our problem is we then identify with these modifications

of mind, & think " We " are happy or sad, when it in fact only the mind

is happy or sad.

 

We have to rise beyond this mind centered stage to our true state. We

have to move from Mind to Buddhi(Wisdom, or the intuitive mind) to

Pure Ego (Sakshi Bhaav) to Pure

Being-Conciousness-Bliss(Sat-Chit-Anand). Patanjali, the super

scientist, said it 1 line

 

" Yoga Chitta Vritti Nirodham " - Yoga or finding God, is stopping the

the waves of ripples on the Chit(mind stuff).

 

Of course this isnt easy, or everyone would have become God by now!

 

But we can start with Sakshi Bhaav, or witness stage, where we merely

watch our thoughts, or our breath, or our body. The key is watching,

without trying to control. This leads us to Pure Ego(diff from normal

ego, which is created by the mind). In this Pure Ego, you are in a

better stage to understand the play of Nature & her 3 Gunas.

 

Minds presents us with thoughts- & we identify with them. Even worse-

thoughts have an existence of their own, & float from person to

person. This incident happened to me: At work, I felt very angry &

sad. I said, some women in the name of their career , neglect their

children. Such children grow up unloved & ignored. That time I had

started watching my thoughts. Immeditely, I hit myself- why did this

thought arise? I am not a Career mom, neither do I know any! So why

did I think this way?

 

I looked around-next to me was sitting a Chinese woman- who had

recently left her child in China. She as looking at pictures of her

baby & was very sad.

 

Then I realised, I had picked up her thoughts, & took them as my own!

This made me wonder- how many times we get angry about something-

corruption, crime etc, we are merely picking up other peoples mental

garbage & keeping it as our own. No wonder our mind is full of

grabage. BTW, this happens with everyone, only the Sadhak can see it

happening & take steps to stop it.

 

So next time you feel angry/sad/depressed, 1st check if its your own

thought, or some garabge you picked up on the road!

 

The mind is not our enemy- it is merely a lower instrument that has

forgotten its true purpose- to control our senses, & to organise &

analyse information that Buddhi provides it. The goal of Sadhna is let

each instrument work in the way it was designed for- by neither

supressing it nor indulging in it.

[Guest guest]

Respected all sadhakas here in this group,

 

i canot even call myself a new sadhak or a beginner , thats why i didn't

express so far anything but i would like to share something, plz let me know if

it is a right path:

 

i always keep chanting om namah shivaye all the time silently and within me,

this keeps me reminding about HIM and also help that minimum of other thoughts

to enter. This repeatition is now for all the time and i feel it going on at the

time i wake up and even at intermittent time while sleeping. I have noticed that

since it remain all the time except when some logical work is done, therefore it

is of great help as far as someone desire to do meditation all the time , even

while doing wordly jobs.

 

since no one has told me this and i donot have privilege to be blessed by any

learned guru so far, so i am anxious to know what more can i add to this so as

to do more meaningful saadhna.

 

 

 

 

Balachander Govindaraghavan <balachand wrote:

Babaji,

 

I can only tell you what method I prefer...

[Guest guest]

, samir sharma <samir_sharma5

wrote:

Dear sharmaji,

 

what you are doing is the biggest sadhna of Kaliyuga...and it is due

to your last birth's sadhna sanskars that you are without any

initiation, doing Bhakti. It is sufficient to take you towards

progress.

 

If you could just put aside a little time daily..and sit at a quiet

place and at fixed time, consciously do Shiva Japa ( from 10 mnts to 1

hours as per yr convenience)...it will boost your progress.

 

Waking up in the morning with Japa, is a very good progress sign

and it shows the Mantra is embedded well into your Chitta

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

BABAJI, Thankyou

 

shiv japa means same mantra? or else?

 

actually i do one mala during morning and evening puja. But i LOVE to recite

devi suktam and apradhkshmapan strotam.....wholeheartedly with meaning. plz

guide me what more can i do to have deep and everlasting devotion, aastha ,

shradhha in devi. b'coz this is the ultimate thing i desire....nothing

else.....truly

 

beirut_ka_baba <no_reply > wrote:

 

what you are doing is the biggest sadhna of Kaliyuga...and it is due

to your last birth's sadhna sanskars that you are without any

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

> Most of the problems we face are due to the fact the mind is a

 

Yes human beings are awakened in mind hence we are called Manav !

we say we are sad, we are happy, we are worried....because we are

conscious is mind and any feeling by mind is taken by us.

 

so Who is the Sakshi in Sakshi Bhava.... who will watch the mind ? Is

it Buddhi, or Ego or soul ?

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Aum,

 

You are spot on....

 

Buddhism says ultimately there is no watcher....That is what they call as

Mahapari-Nirvana...

 

The ultimate advaita.... No watcher and watched...

 

But as of now... We assume that the watcher is the atman.......which too is

actually a vestige of EGO... not the ego as we know it, but the super ego...

 

In any case I cannot comment as I am not qualified to do it....No Experience

of that till date....Just book knowledge..Useless actually...

 

Love

 

Bala....

[Guest guest]

, samir sharma <samir_sharma5

wrote:

 

> shiv japa means same mantra? or else?

 

Sharmaji, there is no need to have another mantra, when shiva mantra

is already embedded in your chitta. This mantra can do wonders with

regular sadhna which includes daily pranayama, japa, diet and other

things. Have you read the article " Sadhna for beginners " on our web-

page? I think you should read the article and chalk out a plan for

yourself for regular sadhna and see the progress yourself.

 

Of course, the chanting which you do is sufficient to reach

ultimate, but it is a slower path and it may take many years or births

to achieve the goal... adding pranayama and proper chanting the

progress can be made faster...sometimes in this birth if god so wishes

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

thanks baba ji,

yes i have read that article and now i will start dhyaan too. i will seek your

further guidance

 

again, thankyou for inspiration

[Guest guest]

> Buddhism says ultimately there is no watcher....That is what they call

 

And Hinduism says there is!

 

The watcher in Sakshi Bhaav is the Pure Ego, formed by Adi Shakti by

mixing the Light of the Soul with Tamogun. Beyond this Pure Ego is Adi

Shakti herself. Beyond her is a great Void, which can only be crossed

with Her help(Tantra) or with the help of the Unmanifest

beyond(Vedant). Bhakti is the best method, as it takes help of both

the manifest & unmanifest(Shiv & Shakti in Tantra).

 

After destroying all your Karmas, one comes to a point where there is

nothing- Nature or Prakriti has finished, but there is nothing

positive either. Its a sort of an emptyness- this is where Budhha got

stuck, which is why he said everything was a void.

 

Thats why we need a combination of Gyan, Bhakti & Karma, if we ever

hope to get full enlightenment, & not get stuck in some negative void.

 

" The Universe is not a Null, a nothing, nor is it a mathematical

equation. It is the poem of the Poet, the painting of the Painter, the

love of a Lover. " Sri Aurobindo

[Guest guest]

Shanracer...

 

I have a doubt...

 

" The watcher in Sakshi Bhaav is the Pure Ego, formed by Adi Shakti by

mixing the Light of the Soul with Tamogun. Beyond this Pure Ego is Adi

Shakti herself. Beyond her is a great Void, which can only be crossed

with Her help(Tantra) ..... "

 

Skahthi helps us cross the void into where??

 

And how are you so sure that Buddha got " stuck " in " that " void???

 

Just curious...

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

 

On 9/5/07, shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

>

>

> > Buddhism says ultimately there is no watcher....That is what they call

[Guest guest]

Also Shanracer....

 

You seem to have a deep hatred of Buddhist philosophies and

doctrines....and have decided that Buddhist doctrines will lead to a

negative void...

 

Actually void is just a name....call it brahman if you want...

 

Because I tell you one thing from personal experience... the silence that

one reaches is nowhere near negative or life negating..... It pulsates with

conciousness......it expands you.. does not make it into some kind of dead

thing as you are suggesting...

 

I am just curious... any experience that makes you say so?????

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

 

On 9/5/07, Balachander Govindaraghavan <balachand wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

>

> > Buddhism says ultimately there is no watcher....That is what

they call

 

 

The Turiya Tattwa manfested as Paramshiva and then Paramshiva

manifested as Sadashiva and Adi shakti....and the cosmos is

manifested afterwards.

 

 

The beauty of this manifestation is that it works on our wishes. If

we desire to see God as Krishna.... the soul will show herself as

Krishna finally. If we desire to see god as shiva, Soul will reveal

herself as Shiva.

 

Budha worked on " no idea " and reached the void...didnt say anything

about it just a big Shunya, no bliss, no soul, no watcher

 

Shankracharya rejected the physical world as Maya and accepted only

Brham.

 

Bhaktas see the universe as their deity.

 

The 36 Tattwa of Tantra actually tell us how this

differentiation works... Tantra explains the void, the Turiya,

different planes of existences and the Truth about deities. As per

Tantra Sakal Tattwa ( Turiya + Atma tattwa+ Vidya Tattwa) is the

real picture of the supreme. Tantra supports Buddhism, Advaita,

dvaita, Bhakti, yoga ...everything which is possible.

 

In fact we can not acually explain and discuss beyond deities.

We can discuss about shiva loka, shakti loka, brahma loka...but not

beyond that ...because beyond that there are no words to explain.

 

Tantra accepts that between Brahmm and manifested worlds, there

is a void, and which is very difficult to cross. Tantra also

confirms that it is Shakti who helps us reach the highest...and

those rejecting shakti from beginning, are not helped by Shakti.

 

Shankrayacharya, finally accepted the Shakti...not breaking his

advaita philosophy, and wrote beautiful verses for her.

 

Buddha philosophy rejects a personal God and Soul...and they

have their own logics...but like other truths it is a part of truth,

not truth as a whole.

 

My personal experience is that the lesser the rejection of

anything... the better/higher the philosophy is.

 

That z why i stress upon practical sadhna... let us go and see

ourselves...what the Truth is !!!!

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

My personal experience is that the lesser the rejection of

anything... the better/higher the philosophy is.

 

That z why i stress upon practical sadhna... let us go and see

ourselves...what the Truth is !!!!

 

Aum

 

 

Beautiful answer...

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, samir sharma <samir_sharma5 wrote:

>

> Respected all sadhakas here in this group,

>

> i canot even call myself a new sadhak or a beginner , thats why i

didn't express so far anything but i would like to share something, plz

let me know if it is a right path:

>

> i always keep chanting om namah shivaye all the time silently and

within me,

 

Brother

 

I am so glad you have brought up this subject! Im sitting here smiling,

because this is me too. I only started chanting last year & love it SO

much, I am really feeling the benefits. I too have chants in my head

all the time now, from before I even open my eyes in the morning.

 

Something that does concern me though, and this is something that goes

way back years. I sometimes have the islamic 'Surat Al Fatiha' in my

head at the most unexpected moments. I dont follow the Islamic religion

any more. It is a beautiful verse but it certainly is Islamic with no

doubt. Should I try not to do this? Or is chanting or prayer of any

sort something which I should embrace? Should we all be able to walk

into a mosque, a temple, a church.... I would be interested to hear

what anyone thinks of this.

 

With much love.

Farah

[Guest guest]

I agree with you Shri Balaji for Krishna never taught us that gyaana

is " void " .Gyaana is the understanding of the taatva of aatman ie soul

and tattva of body .Buddha and Lord Rishabhdeva and also Jagatguru

Shankracharya were incarnations of God.So called Vaishnavas say that

Buddhism and advaita lead to viodism. This is blasphemy ie fanaticism.

You see Lord Rishabhdeva was an incarnation of Lord Narayana or

Vishnu.Lord Buddha was a major incarnation ie the ninth incarnation of

Vishnu. The next will be Kalki.Krishna says- " even if one thinks that

the others religion is superior you must follow your own because you

will recieve the fruits for following your own religion and not the

religion of others " Then later he says " abandon all varities of

religion and surrender to me "

All the different paths sankhya, bhakti etc lead to him ie to Krishna

or God. Only fools, maayavadis say that this path isight and that path

is wrong.They are comitting an offence against Krishna.

 

regards

Aradhana

[Guest guest]

I have a question for our enlightened members here

 

What is the significance of the brow chakra..agna..being in a state of

excitation (something like buzzing) almost all the waking hours....

 

does it mean the energy is stagnating there? or just flowing through it....

 

 

Love

 

Bala.....

[Guest guest]

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

wrote:

 

> and tattva of body .Buddha and Lord Rishabhdeva and also Jagatguru

> Shankracharya were incarnations of God.So called Vaishnavas say that

> Buddhism and advaita lead to viodism. This is blasphemy ie

fanaticism.

> regards

> Aradhana

>

 

Is there a concept of Blasphemy in hinduism ? I very much doubt.

You are using islamic and christian terms in hinduism.

[Guest guest]

I think Aradhana'spoint was not being a fanatic...

 

Does it really matter if she used christian or islamic terms...

 

Love

 

Bala..

 

 

On 9/5/07, tantra_rag <no_reply > wrote:

>> Is there a concept of Blasphemy in hinduism ? I very much doubt.

> You are using islamic and christian terms in hinduism.

[Guest guest]

> You seem to have a deep hatred of Buddhist philosophies and

> doctrines....and have decided that Buddhist doctrines will lead to a

> negative void...

 

I dont have a hatred of anything.... if I dont agree with something, I

will say so. Just like you brutally attacked Prabhupad, then said you

were right to give your opinion. Surely, others have this right too?

 

 

> Actually void is just a name....call it brahman if you want...

 

No its not. Pick up any book on Buddhism- this is 1st concept they

deny- there is no Brahm, Shiv, or Universal Spirit.

 

> Because I tell you one thing from personal experience... the silence

 

You get angry at small things, send 4 emails when 1 would suffice,

brutally attack anyone who diagrees with you(Me, Babaji, Jaya Keshav

Das to name a few). Shows me how much " spiritual experience " you have.

 

Peace

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

>

> The ultimate advaita.... No watcher and watched...

>

> But as of now... We assume that the watcher is the

atman.......which too is

> actually a vestige of EGO... not the ego as we know it, but the

super ego...

>

> In any case I cannot comment as I am not qualified to do it....No

Experience

> of that till date....Just book knowledge..Useless actually...

>

> Love

>

> Bala....

>

 

No bala you are quite right in grasping the point.. yet if we talk

of Sakshi bhava, there should be a watcher... let us not talk the

ultimate now.

 

That z true that our ego (aham) is sakshi in our body.. but when

we say that we must have Sakshi Bhava, what is the practical aspect

of it... means ego is already in Sakshi Bhava...then who is trying

to attain Sakshi bhava.

 

Hope i am not confusing the matter....lol

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

> , tantra_rag <no_reply wrote:

> Is there a concept of Blasphemy in hinduism ? I very much doubt.

> You are using islamic and christian terms in hinduism.

>thanks Shri Balaji for sharing that with us. thanks a lot.

 

Dear Tantra I mean that which is akin to something that Kabir says ie

all religions are path ways to God. Allah and Krishna are one and the

same. In Sanatana dharma there is acceptance of all various

philosophies and rejection of none. Thats why Hinduism is not confined

to sects , its about freedom and different methods of reaching the one

God. For a true Hindu or for a true saadhak be he of any religion there

is no blasphemy in his or her own life atleast.A true Hindu is

never " blasphemous " ie fanatical because he has brought up in an

atmosphere where various philosophies are known to meet in a

confluence. But if a person says that Shiva is demi god and Vishnu

alone is God then its blasphemy.

Why do you think that blasphemy is confined to Christianity and

Islam.blasphemy doesnot know the barriers of place or religion etc just

as the love for God doesnt know any barriers of religion.

 

A verse by Kabir -

" If God dwells only in the mosque, to whom belongs the rest of the

country?

They who are called Hindus say that God dwells in an idol

I see the truth in neither

O God whether Allah or Ram I live by thy name

O God show kindness to me, Hari dwells in the south, Allah has his

place in the west

Search in thy heart

Search in thy heart of hearts there is his place and abode..............

Kabir is the child of Ram and Allah and accepts all Guru and pirs "

[Guest guest]

Humbler Oeisances to all. Samir and Farah have put forth a very good point here.

Chanting of mantra for all the time. When any mantra is accepted by the

intellect honestly and with intense love for it, mind goes on chanting it for

all the time. This is very important stage/position in Sakshi Bhava, as we are

discussing. In Sakshi Bhava, we have to observe the 'thought-waves' arising and

setting in the mind indifferently. While doing so, we do not suppress them, we

do not welcome them, we do not justify them, we do not go with them and we do

not condemn them. We don't worry or bother their coming and going. When we watch

their dance as third party spectator, the chanting of beloved mantra goes on

continuously. We enjoy peace, tranquility, calmness. This is the goal that every

sadhaka tries to achieve. We can say this as entrance to 'Samadhi Sates' which

is now nearer. Heartful regards.

[Guest guest]

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

>

> I have a question for our enlightened members here

>

> What is the significance of the brow chakra..agna..being in a state of

> excitation (something like buzzing) almost all the waking hours....

>

> does it mean the energy is stagnating there? or just flowing through

it....

>

>

> Love

>

> Bala.....

>

 

Dear Bala

 

How lovely to hear this again, I asked a very similar question back in

May when I first joined this forum. If you go back to the main site &

look at post number 9769 & then the answers that followed, Im sure you

will find the comments interesting & helpful... as always...

 

With love & good wishes

Farah