Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Dear Balaji and others, One thing is quite certain that most of us who are on the path of spiritual progress, have to undergo some sort of mystical experiences. But i have met some people, who have deep knowledge of Truth, but have had no mystical experiences as such. Can we say that Mystical Experiences are must on the path of Truth, if yes how they help in further progress ? Can we also say that anyone who has never had any mystical exp...has not yet reached the heights of spirituality.. or vice versa ? With Love Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Dearest Aum, If you are talking about Visions.. they are not needed..... If you are talking about THE Experience, then it is different...That is the Journey.... The merging of the individual ego with the super ego is the nectar that all of us are moving towards.... I would say the path is the Mystical experience.... It can happen through many routes...Through the grace of one's Ishta devata, Grace of the Guru, Power of ones Yoga...etc.. But.... the final leap is HIS grace.... The final frontier can be crossed only by HIM.... Love Bala... On 9/18/07, Aum <beirut_ka_baba wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > > If you are talking about Visions.. they are not needed..... > > If you are talking about THE Experience, then it is different... Dear Spiritual brother Balaji, Before we go further on this wonderful and important topic...please tell me your outlook on What is difference between a Vision and a mystical experience ? Is there a well defined borderline, between the two, or they are entirely different things.? Are visions completely useless ? or do they also have their share of help in progress ? AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Dearest Babaji, You are right a vision is also a mystical experience.... but what I meant to say was that in my opinion visions have their utility but can be the cause of a person to develop ego...They need not happen for a person to develop spiritually... A higher mystical experience is an experience within one's self....which changes the person from the root..... For example dont you think an experience of becomming Shiva himself is way better than beholding the form of the LORD?? That is what I had meant to convey.. I never meant to debase any experience....Please forgive me if I came across in that manner... Love Bala.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 > Are visions completely useless ? or do they also have their share of > help in progress ? Visions are useful as they give us an indicator of how far we are down the road. They are a distraction if one stops at them, but to say they are completely useless is also a mis-statement. I dont think there is any difference b/w mystical experience & Vision- it depends on the user. Since English is not a spiritual language(unlike Sanskrit), we have to use words that closest match what we are thinking, & words may depend on what word the user likes. Visions give us direct knowledge- Patanjali says the Paroksh or Direct way is the best way to gain knowledge, & the only one thats 100% reliable. This direct knowledge only happens in visions/mystical experiences. Visions only happens to those who practice Yogic/meditational techniques. A Vedanti or Zen Buddhist who practices Self-enquiry wont get any, till the end when he will get one Big vision & that'll be it. Yoga is an incremental path, with many milestones, so Yogis will get many small visions, & the final Big one at the end. So it depends on what path one is following. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I also do not have any mystical experiences, but yes i do not even believe that i am spiritually advanced, so may be what you are telling is true. but sometimes i feel, if i ask my lord will bestow with all mystic experiences, But i am not askign and also he is not bringing the desire in me, so that i dont get into these loop of hinderances. So, some day , some year, if i get more advanced to any minute extent, even then i would try maximum to not have any mystic experience and hence resulting abilities, so that i dont get hindered with my supreme goal of reaching the lotus feet of my revered, The Lord. -- Deito A perosn who is bestowed with the concious knowledge of Purusha existing in him is freed form all fear and nothign in this existance , in whole material manifest can bring fear to such a person. Because he firmly knows that the Universe exists only in the Manifestation , induced by the Lords derivative in Trance. Whom The veda's call teh purusha. Also the whole veda's is initially released by the divine vibration of This trance of my great Lord. This vibration is Om. HEnce it is told, taht Om is himself, and one who recognizes this and constantly concentrates on this divine vibration will be allwed and will gain capability form the supreme Trance, of this purusha, and hence get through this material manifest illution. Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > You are right a vision is also a mystical experience.... but what I meant to Dear Balaji, please dont make me ashamed by asking for forgiveness etc. when I question it is never to mock or contradict.... it is always to bring out more Truth .... or t harmonise our views. Thanks for the answer... this is what i wished to say too. Dreams, visions mystical experiences and the final Bliss are all interrelated and are shown to us for some purpose. As you and shanracer said those who stuck at any of them, before the final leap... delay their Moksha so we should just see the purpose of vision and go onwards. I am waiting for some more wisdom from you on this subject AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , deito01 <no_reply wrote: > > I also do not have any mystical experiences, but yes i do not even My dear Deito, Mystical experience can be of anytype. Not necessarity what i experienced will be exp by others too. What you felt yesterday is also a mystical exp. Even crying before the lord, without any reason, is also a mystical experience !! Kya bolte ho ??? AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 > The merging of the individual ego with the super ego is the nectar > that all of us are moving towards.... Dear bala, i always thought and believed we merge into egolessness. When there is a singular existance and consiousness, then there is no ego. because ego is when there are two or three entities and there is comparision. Kindly let me know, What are your thoughts on this. -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > If you are talking about Visions.. they are not needed..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Humble Obeisances to all!. mystical experience can not be any yardstick to judge advancement of devotee on any stage/step. They are all because of inner strong intentions/will powers. If someone, while meditating on 'self' aspires in mind simultaneously that some certain person should meet me today, these signals will be passed to that person and at the same time he would start thinking that he should meet that one and at appropriate time both of them will be together laughing/smiling at each other with wonder. Actually it is not wonder, it is cosmic system, telepathy' that brings both of the together. This is not mystic. We can say mystic which takes place without intention of sadhaka, even in the seventh room of his mind/intellect. And in this case only the Supreme is able to do any systic. All others are 'bhramas'. Vision/foresight also a 'bhrama' as it can not be proved on physical plane/example. One can see many Gandharvas/Gods/typical bodies flying around him, playing, chatting with him, adoring him or tormenting him, and after some time it really happens. This is all because the 'bhrama' strongly captured the sphere of 'inner strong will' and made it recycle the same picture in so many times that even on physical plane he starts thinking and behaving like that and we say it 'bhrama realised' or my foresight came in reality. It was to happen sometime and happened at that time and we have forgotton to count the gap of time that is lapsed in between. For Vision, we can say, a foresight that ensures welfare of humanity for ages to come. Our Ved-upanishadas, Geeta, are vision. All other things are 'fortune telling'. Heartful regards to all. Keshav. Balachander Govindaraghavan <balachand wrote: Dearest Babaji, You are right a vision is also a mystical experience.... but what I meant to say was that in my opinion visions have their utility but can be the cause of a person to develop ego...They need not happen for a person to develop spiritually... A higher mystical experience is an experience within one's self....which changes the person from the root..... For example dont you think an experience of becomming Shiva himself is way better than beholding the form of the LORD?? That is what I had meant to convey.. I never meant to debase any experience....Please forgive me if I came across in that manner... Love Bala.... Try the revolutionary next-gen Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , deito01 <no_reply wrote: i always thought and believed we merge into egolessness. > When there is a singular existance and consiousness, then there is > no ego. because ego is when there are two or three entities and > there is comparision. Dear Deito, Whereas the final aim or Moksha is merging into No-being state, yet there are some other equivalent Mokshas which are mentioned by our Hindu philosophy. Like what Vaishvanites say abt Mukti (salokya Mukti, sarupya Mukti, sayujya mukti)...etc are residing with the Super Ego of God either like him, or like his slave etc. Same is told by shaivaites too only they replace Krishna/Vishnu with shiva, only difference of names. The god is not only a non-being state, He is in Being state too, when he manifests as cosmos and behaves like Ishwara...so merging into Ishwara's ego too is a Moksha...and there all the souls who reached there, merge into the Non-being after Maha-Pralaya. Tantra philosophy explain it more beautifully and logically in its 36 tattawas... if you like i will write abt them. The complete Moksha is either merging into God's ego, or to become a Videha or being a Prakriti-laya, or being in void...and finally in non-being. None of them is superior or inferior...it only depends upon a person's outlook. Like a Krishna Bhakta would refuse to get a Moksha, where there is no Krishna... so god keeps him in his lap till the final dissolution of cosmos...and i personally feel this Moksha is more blissful than any other... AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 As this is my subject of interest please write more about this, and also i have many other doubts wandering in my mind form your previous post. Kindly clarify me those also. > The god is not only a non-being state, He is in Being state too, > when he manifests as cosmos and behaves like Ishwara...so merging > into Ishwara's ego too is a Moksha...and there all the souls who > reached there, merge into the Non-being after Maha-Pralaya. Yes Ishwara exists in personal form, But only he exists in reality and when he is adobe, how can ego exists and if it exists too , then it is being egoistic of what. what is the other thing that is there whcih can interpret this ego, and hence it exists. > The complete Moksha is either merging into God's ego, Again got a bit confused here, please make me understand. > Tantra philosophy explain it more beautifully and logically in > its 36 tattawas... if you like i will write abt them. Definitely, i will be thankful to you. I see my Lord in everything, and i will able to see his attributes clearly. > Like a Krishna Bhakta would refuse to get a Moksha, where there is > no Krishna... so god keeps him in his lap till the final dissolution > of cosmos...and i personally feel this Moksha is more blissful than > any other... This is true, i agree. There are many ways of moksha, including the Yogic eightfold path and many more, and there are many more belief systems throughout the universe, and even in limited religions like Christianity, due to extreme goodness many people loose desire and than attain moksha. Also many Shivites through sadhana attains the same. Hence, the Only god who is present will take care of them for sure, and may move them or rather transfer to spiritual existence before maha - pralaya But again, if a person crosses the seventh chakra, that means he is self realized and he can see and be in contact constantly with the absolute, so there may not be such condition existing, as every soul attaining moksha is enlightened one way or the other and is situated in mode of goodness. -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 >Dear bala, i always thought and believed we merge into egolessness. >When there is a singular existance and consiousness, then there is >no ego. because ego is when there are two or three entities and >there is comparision. Dearest Deito... Babaji is spot on....By the super ego I meant the manifest form of the lord... That is as true as the infinite current as you very well know.... The seventh chakra is as you have said the last frontier as per some schools of thought... But even after the 6th boundaries haze and melt away..... Love Bala... On 9/18/07, deito01 <no_reply > wrote: > > > > The merging of the individual ego with the super ego is the nectar > > that all of us are moving towards.... > > Dear bala, i always thought and believed we merge into egolessness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 It is also possible to transmit spiritual experiences... When one is able to raise the energy level to a suffeciently high level, that energy can be transferred to another person... That way the recepient will enjoy the same mystical state as yourself. But this also has it's own pitfalls and dangers...Shakthipat must only be carried out by a person devoid of gross Ego, so that no harm comes to the recepient. I will narrate a real incident that happened... One guy was very deep into energy practices and also had learnt how to transmit to others. This guy's friend came to him one day and asked him how it feels to be in that spiritual state. This person was immature and lacked the sense to tell his friend to work for it and told him he will show him how it feels. During the meditation session that followed, this person transmitted his energy to his friend who was thrown a few feet away and received a huge shock...His friend was knocked out for some period of time, but he did have that bliss and experience. Thankfully no major damage was done and both of them learnt their lessons. After a certain stage in yoga, one gets the power and control over chakras in one's body. Although this is a good thing.. for the person getting these powers... it is a huge temptation... powers over others thoughts, feelings, power to raise the Kundalini and transmit experiences, power of seeing the past, present, future, clairvoyance and so on. These can become HUGE barriers. One also becomes very attractive and weilds enormous magnetism. There is a risk of falling back into Maya and delusion more than before. May be that is why Ramana maharishi and Ramakrishna called these siddhis as heaps of rubbish. But in the hands of the person who has won over his lower self, these are invaluable tools that can help other sadhaks. My guru told me once, that this path of the sadhak is like crossing over a river of lava on a bridge that is as wide as a single strand of hair. one small slip up and we might need to wait for a long time before restarting... love Bala.. > > > > On 9/18/07, deito01 <no_reply > wrote: > > > > > > > The merging of the individual ego with the super ego is the nectar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Dear Brother, I agree . we can be a part of the manifest form of the Lord. -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > Babaji is spot on....By the super ego I meant the manifest form of the > lord... That is as true as the infinite current as you very well know.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.