Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 I am very puzzled on Krishna and his deeds. Despite so many UN-GODLY deeds he is worshipped by all hindus. some of his (mis) deeds are :- He enjoyed with so many women, first gopis then 16000 wives He killed his own maternal uncle and his own cousin He played politics between Kauravas and Pandavas and took them to the Great war of Mahabharata, in which millions of people died. My many non-hindu friends asked these questions and I have no logic to tell them the truth behind these. Obviously others dont treat him as God so saying it is God's maya or lila will not work. Can someone help me find answers to these questions regards Vishnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Dear Kaliyugvishnu5 , I too face a volley of questions from non Hindus. I ask them a question about their religion and they stop questioning any further. Christians and Muslims specially say teach and spend for propagation of their faith . They all agree that If we don`t accept Jesus as Savior we are destined to hell even if we do good deeds say Christians Muslims claim that if we don`t accept Mohammad (pbuoh) as the last prophet we are destined to go to hell after death. My doubt is " What about people who were born and died before Jesus and Mohammad(pbuoh) were born? " like Adam,Abraham(Ibrahim) , David (Dud) , Solomon (Salman) ? These people never accepted Jesus or Mohammad (pbuoh) as anything .Are they in hell ? Or will they go to hell on the day of judgment? Asking a counter question is not answering their question.. Coming to Lord Krishna During Dwaparayuga sages like Parashar Ved Vyas had children . Parashar met Satyavathi and they had Ved Vyasas their son. Ved Vyas met Ambika ,Ambalika, and their maid to father Dhritharashtr, Pandu and Vidur. Just a one time divine union. Lord Krishna had gopikas and eight queens but DID NOT BECOME A FATHER. This means Lord Krishna`s love for women is /was NEVER CARNAL. He killed kamsa as a part of destroying the wicked HE played politics of Dharma versus Adharma That was/is the entire purpose of HIS incarnation.. Mahabharata war destroyed several people fighting on the Adharmik side. Human logic can not understand any religious belief. This should help your fellow sadhak ijswamy ~SWAMY http://gjnanaswarup.spaces.live.com/blog/ --- On Fri, 9/12/08, kalyugivishnu5 <no_reply > wrote: kalyugivishnu5 <no_reply > I am very puzzled on Krishna and his deeds. Despite so many UN-GODLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 HARE RAM ,HARE KRISHAN > I am very puzzled on Krishna and his deeds. Despite so many UN- GODLY > deeds he is worshipped by all hindus. some of his (mis) deeds are :- > > He enjoyed with so many women, first gopis then 16000 wives > > He killed his own maternal uncle and his own cousin > > He played politics between Kauravas and Pandavas and took them to the > Great war of Mahabharata, in which millions of people died. > For the first issue Lord Sri Krishan TOOK RESPONSIBILITY of 16000 womens , who asked for the help and why do you always think that marriage means enjoyment Marriage means a great Karma to perform relegiously in the form of family responsibility and IT is not necessarily that everyone would go for sexual pleasure . if someone goes for pleasure than He would definetely be fallen into the darkness............. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN IT for the second issue , His maternal uncle was trying to torture the innocent people for his selfish motives . who could not be stopped through anybody ... And Lord took his negative karmas on His head and gave him Moksha ...........JAI SRI KRISHAN for the third concern Lord established Dharma , which you are calling as politics . Understanding Dharma is a difficult task ,and those who died in the war , burned their negative Karmas and might be gained the Kingdom of Heaven ........... nobody forced them to fight in war ... it was their choice which could be forced or unforced................... HARE RAM , HARE RAM ,RAM RAM , HARE HARE , HARE KRISHAN , HARE KRISHAN , KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Q: I am very puzzled on Krishna and his deeds. Despite so many UN-GODLY deeds he is worshipped by all hindus. some of his (mis) deeds are :-A: If we are to confront an UN-GODLY bunch of people, we have to meet them with UN-GODLY deeds only. Whats so UN-GODLY about it? :-) Q: He enjoyed with so many women, first gopis then 16000 wivesA: What is " enjoyed " ??? Who can dare take the responsibility of 16000 wives today? Not even the Prince of Brunei? :-D Q: He killed his own maternal uncle and his own cousinA: To taught us a lesson that a tyrant or a wrongdoer must be dealt with severely.....even if its someone related to us, without any trace of attachment. Q: He played politics between Kauravas and Pandavas and took them to the Great war of Mahabharata, in which millions of people died.A: HE never played politics....rather HE tried His BEST, till the end to prevent the war. Q: My many non-hindu friends asked these questions and I have no logic to tell them the truth behind these. Obviously others dont treat him as God so saying it is God's maya or lila will not work.A: Is it important what other treat Him like? Is He at the mercy of Anybody's treatment?? We can " get to know " Him by trying to get closer to Him......About Others???.......Please do not Care.....Lets try to " Get to Know " Him......Soon, very soon you will have answers to throw at Others according to that fellows level of understanding :-) BE SURE. Can someone help me find answers to these questions regards Vishnu Regards,Anupam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Dear Vishnuji, You have asked a very common question that is bugging those who are uninitiated or have not gone through Bhagavata or other lores/puranas of our heritage. Sri Swamiji and Sri Jitenraji have already clarified on the issue. I may add a bit further to illustrate the greatness of Sri Krishna. Sri Krishna was too young, a kid ( I think 6 years old ), when he was playing with Gopis, there was no sexual intent at all.Attributing such things betrays either their ignorance of the story or malicious intent that can be simply ignored. The demonic Kamsa used to capture girls whenever and wherever he used to find them and held captive in his palace. Sri Krishna freed all those 16000 girls and married them because otherwise no body would admit those girls in society as they are considered as fallen women. Not only He married them but looked after them superbly well : He built individual palaces to all of them and each one of them used to think that He had special liking for her only, He multiplied Himself to 16000 to be with them! Is it not revolutionary that He gave honor and dignity to the " outcast' women and cared for them well ? Is He not the most modern/humane of all the present day modern guys in His approach to life ? In Gita also He propounded a revolutionary view of life and existence beyond the mundane/routine view which even the so called Marxist/ communist do not have. Communist speak of equality of all human being, our Sri krishna spoke of equality of all beings - animate and inanimate! Be proud of our heritage, there is nothing like it in the whole of history, others are still bachchaas, kids, in front of our classics! Regards, M.S.Thimmappa. , " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja wrote: > > HARE RAM ,HARE KRISHAN > > > I am very puzzled on Krishna and his deeds. Despite so many UN- > GODLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Thanks Timmappaji .I want to add just one more thing. Lord Sri Ram`s foot touched a stone . Cursed Ahalya became holy again. Touch of dust on Lord`s foot purifies and never pollutes. 16000 Gopikas and 8 queens received Love of Lord not physical pleasure. yours ijswamy ~SWAMY http://gjnanaswarup.spaces.live.com/blog/ --- On Sat, 9/13/08, M.S.Thimmappa. <thimmappams wrote: M.S.Thimmappa. <thimmappams Re: Why we worship Krishna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 , " M.S.Thimmappa. " <thimmappams wrote: > > Dear Vishnuji, > Sri Krishna was too young, a kid ( I think 6 years old ), when he >was playing with Gopis, there was no sexual intent at all.Attributing >such things betrays either their ignorance of the story or malicious >intentthat can be simply ignored. This is very true Thummappaji- all the sexual imagery was added later. In the same tune, the 16000 wives of Krishna represent the 16000 Nadis that Krishna as Pure Spirit excites & controls. I dont think Krishna literally married 16000 women(I havent read original Mahabharat, so I maybe wrong). Many things were added later, but they only make sense if you know the hidden symbology behind them. Else they are just stories. with love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Dear Shantnuji, Bhagavata mention number of wives but as is the case with most scriptural writings it has multiple meanings, often depending on the level of consciousness of the readers as well as interpreters. Your reading as nadis is superb, you had said it earlier too, I was delighted then to read it as I am now! Even Ramayana has been read with several, some of them quite astonishing, meanings. P V N Murthy, after visiting the places mentioned in Ramayana and researching, writes in his book Ramayana Rahasya (2004) that the epic is actually a greatest treatise in Astronomy, Rama's travel is a movement in the equator and many details there is unintelligible if read as mere stories but astronomically highly significant containing secrets of space that would benefit modern scientist! T N Shivakumar finds that the whole of Ramayana is actually a depiction of mental activities/states from impure to purity by making a linguistic analysis of the names in the epic, meanings of names taken from Amarakosha only!! I think such analysis are most welcome as it contributes to the enrichment, often in tune with the times, lending freshness to our understandings. Regards, M.S.Thimmappa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 , " M.S.Thimmappa. " <thimmappams wrote: P V N Murthy, after visiting the places > mentioned in Ramayana and researching, writes in his book Ramayana > Rahasya (2004) that the epic is actually a greatest treatise in > Astronomy, Rama's travel is a movement in the equator and many details Thanks Thimappaji, this was wonderful information. Can you write some extracts from Murthy's writings, or can you give a link where we can go and read this wonderful information regards Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Hello, Whoever initiated this topic " Why we worship Krishna " , my mail specially goes to him. The human mind is most of the time seeking excuses for his own misdeeds. Our own actions are so impure and our mind very easily finds reasons and excuses for it. The mail you have written proves this. And now look, our human mind hasn't left GOD even. My dear friend, Lord Krishna's marrying to 16,000 Gopis should not be taken as something lying in material domain, i.e. something done for physical pleasures. It significance exists in subtle domain which has been shared by other Sadhaks. Also, I would like to add that marriage means union. I would say, forget about 16,000 wives, I say that HE still has infinite number of wives and I am also one of them. Every Soul (existing in this Universe or other Universes) is married to Lord Krishna. Without HIM, no existence is possible of any Soul. We have taken innumerable births uptil now. If you talk in terms of physical union of bodies (which normally happens after marriage), I would say that we have married even more number of times as compared to 16,000 marriages of Lord Krishna and enjoyed physical pleasure infinite number of times in the most dirtiest ways we can think of. With Regards, Prabhat Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without download. Go to http://in.webmessenger./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Dear AUMji, Thanks for your interest. I have read the book some three years ago, I do not wish to venture into extracting from the book without going through it again! The book is an outcome of Murthy's two decades of research, he subtitles it as 'first book of the series, The Original Secrets'! Although he is a scholar, he wants to reach his discovery to general public and hence he has written in the form of a personal story a bit.I will give the reference below, if you still won't get it please let me know how I can reach my copy to you : P V N Murthy ( 2004 ) :Ramayanha Rahasya, VEDSRI Publication, 5/1, " Vedasram " , Titan Township, Hosur, Tamil Nadu, India. PIN:635110.Pp.6+226. Price: Rs.150.ISBN 81-902001-0-0. Regards, M.S.Thimmappa. , aumji <no_reply wrote: > > , " M.S.Thimmappa. " <thimmappams@> > wrote: > P V N Murthy, after visiting the places > > mentioned in Ramayana and researching, writes in his book Ramayana > > Rahasya (2004) that the epic is actually a greatest treatise in > > Astronomy, Rama's travel is a movement in the equator and many > details > > Thanks Thimappaji, this was wonderful information. Can you write some > extracts from Murthy's writings, or can you give a link where we can > go and read this wonderful information > > regards > > Aum > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Hari Om! I am one of those who firmly believe that Rama's story as given in Valmika is based on the real events that took place around Rama, of course with due allowance given to poetic  imagination. While so, how does astronomical or other kind of interpretation fit in such stories?Which is imaginary? Is the life of Rama or the esoteric meaning imported into it? I may be enlightened more on this aspect. ulaganathan p  M.S.Thimmappa. <thimmappams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Dear Ulaganathanji, Being a real story need not preclude some secrets being concealed while narrating the story or in the setting for the story. Reading that book will further clarify that. Of course, I too believe that Ramayana is historical and there was a real Rama living at that time. However, as you might be aware, whether He was God/God incarnate or a great human being - mahatama - risen to divine stature is debated by the scholars. Sitaparityaga, Valivadha, Shambukavadha testifies to the latter, his human side. By considering Him as a human being extraordinary, living the Truth/being embodiment of Vedic life would help consider Him as a model to all to emulate.. Regards, M.S.Thimmappa. , ulaganathan p <apunathan wrote: > > Hari Om! > > I am one of those who firmly believe that Rama's story as given in Valmika is based on the real events that took place around Rama, of course with due allowance given to poetic  imagination. While so, how does astronomical or other kind of interpretation fit in such stories? Which is imaginary? Is the life of Rama or the esoteric meaning imported into it? > > I may be enlightened more on this aspect. > > ulaganathan p > >  > > > > M.S.Thimmappa. <thimmappams > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 , ulaganathan p <apunathan wrote: Dear Ulaganathanji, Namaste! According to what i have heard is that Ramayan was written before Lord Rama was born by Sage Valmiki. It is said that Kal Purush got scared that if everyone followed this esoteric Ramayan - this Bhumi meaning Earth would be devoid of Souls as many would escape to get Moksha so he arranged to have these souls born and to resort to the story as mentioned in Ramayan. So esoteric meaning was first written and the story of Lord Rama later manifested. As you can see practically everyone (or rather majority) cannot accept the esoteric meaning and like to take consolation in the fact it was a true story etc., so also in Mahabharat wherein i had mentioned about Krishna's love or marriage has nothing to do with actual wives but it has esoteric meaning and it was seconded by Shantanuji at that time. Hope this clarifies your doubt. With warm wishes, Sudhakar HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Dear Sudhakarji, I believe that accepting the Esoteric meaning is no way in opposition with the acceptance of Historic fact. In our culture, it always starts with the acceptance of the Historic fact (starting from childhood with stories from our Grandparents...) which slowly transmutes into " individual esoteric reflection " with the expanding consciousness. Your views are welcome...... Regards, Anupam HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 , " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote: > According to what i have heard is that Ramayan was written before > Lord Rama was born by Sage Valmiki. It is said that Kal Purush got Yes dear, I also read in some books that Rishis (souls at the causal level) write certain scripts and then all other souls, including god enact that script on earth. Not even Ramayan but also Mahabharat was also written well before these happened. We may explore it further Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Hari Om1 Thanks Sudhakarji, Many yogis believe and insist that the puranas and the ithihas should be read as allegories conveying spiritual ideas and philosophies. But, millions in this country believe in Ram and Krishna as historical figures, the former having lived millions of years ago and the latter more than 5000 years ago. Kanchi Paramacharya was at pains to prove the historicity of Ramayan, citing the local tradition about the temples and religious places like Rameshwaram, Devipattanam, Thirupullani, Patteeshwaram etc where Lord Rama is believed to have spent time doing puja etc before and after the Lankan conquest. Swami Satayananda, on the culmination of the Rajshooya yagya at Rikhia, in December 2007, narrated how the Ram Sethu is very much a historical and man-made structure, based on his experience as a mendicant, at Dhanushkodi. Therefore, it is difficult to believe that these stories could be mere stories. But you said- " esoteric meaning was first written and the story of Lord Rama later manifested' " . Probably, you mean to say that although the esoteric meaning was intially conceived by Valmiki, the life of Ram fitted into this design already made by the Rishi. Like all of us have a pre-ordained destiny according to which our present life is shaped, Lord Ram's and for that matter that of Lord Krishna's also followed a pre-ordained schme of things. ulaganathan p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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