Guest guest Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Namaste, Your friend is essentially correct - body has no use or meaning after death. However, your friend is not entirely correct. If one has a deep attachment to the body, mind may be attached to the body even after death, even after the connection of the karmendriyas and jnanendriyas of the mind to the physical body is cut off. Then what happens to the body does affect the mind and its further progress. * * * When one takes sannyasa, i.e renounces material world, the last rites are to be done symbolically. After that, one is dead symbolically. However, if one does not have true renunciation and detachment from body, relatives and other material objects, there is no point in taking sannyasa or doing symbolic last rites. Even if one does it, mind may still be attached to the body. If last rites are not done after death, even a sannyasi's mind may have problems. On the other hand, a true sannyasi who is absolutely detached from the body even when alive will fly high when mind is finally freed from the body at death. * * * One cannot control what others do with one's body after one leaves it. So the wisest course of action would be to develop detachment even when alive. Divert the concern for the well-being of the body towards other people. Do bare minimum to keep the body alive and not be overly concerned about it. When you meditate, think only of god and try to forget that there is a body that you occupy. Even if leg hurts or neck itches, try to forget about it. If you ignore body for a while, it will cry out for attention, like an immature child who needs attention. If you give it attention, you cannot experience god. But, as you ignore body more, body will try more to get your attention (like an immature child who needs attention)! However, if you persist, body will have to eventually give up! THAT is when one can absorb the mind fully in god. If one experiences that often while alive, that experience helps immensely at death. When the mind leaves the body for the last time, one can focus mind on god and ignore the attention grabbing cries for help from the body. One who successfully focuses mind on god when the last moment comes is liberated and gets saayujya or moksha. On the other hand, one who wavers from the focus on god and lets mind turn towards the plight of the dying body gets stuck. To a yogi, each session of deep meditation is like a dress rehearsal of the last moment! Death is not to be feared. If faced correctly, it is the moment of final liberation. Life is meant to be a practice for it! Instead of worrying about body and its last rites, let every ritual be a last rite! I suggest that one should practice detachment and develop the ability to absolutely ignore the pitiful cries of the body for attention as one tries to focus the mind on god and succeed in absorbing the mind in god when meditating. If one practices that, the issue of who does last rites and what rites becomes irrelevant. * * * Of course, one who performs brilliantly in dress rehearsals may still forget one's lines or put a wrong expression when playing the drama finally on the big stage. Similarly, a yogi who has overcome the attachment to body and absorbed the mind perfectly in god many times may still waver at the last moment and think of body or something else that is impermenant and be reborn. However, all that is in our control is to practice and prepare for the last moment. * * * You are lucky. There are many Hindus who do not experience anything like what you described. Keep doing sadhana and overcome the little rawness that may still be left in the consciousness. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - - > Dear Narasimha, > > I seek you advise on this rather peculiar question and I hope you will > find the time to answer me. > > I was born into a non Hindu family. My family members were staunch > believers in their religion. From an early age of 6, I regularly used > to have dreams of Hindu deities. And even when watching Hindu > religious movies, I would always feel a rush of energy and electric > shock like feelings in my body, especially when deities are shown. > > Then from age 12, I was left with a Hindu family for a couple of > years. I was brought by this foster family to Hindu temples every week > and also for Thaipusam. This was my first love with the Hindu > religion. I just felt so energised praying at temples. Such a feeling > was never experienced in my family's place of worship. > > Then over the years I was left on my own and got married and had a son > etc. My wife was of yet another religion and my son followed his mom. > And I used to accompany them to pray. > > Yet despite all my experiences with 4 major religions, I only feel > that I have reached my destiny with Hinduism. For the past 3 years I > regularly go temples, perform homams (at the temples) and also do > japams. Lately with your instructions I have started homams at home. > > I find myself being drawn and helped by some divine force to learn > more and more. Knowledge and people somehow come together to guide me > and to pull me along this spiritual path. I find tremendous peace and > love fills my heart when I am at temples or at home doing poojas and > japams. Even when I sleep and wake up in the middle of the night, I > find my mind reciting mantras. Sometimes while performing japam my > body starts to shake uncontrollably or tears flow or I perspire > profusely (even in air-con environment). These events lead me to > believe I am on the right path. > > I truly believe Hinduism IS MY DESTINY. > > Now to my question. > > When my soul departs my body I have no family member who would perform > the Hindu rites. I live on my own and my son is studying overseas. And > I am sure non of my family members would respect my wishes and grant > me my wish to be accorded the Hindu rites. Anyway I am not with them. > > So is there any way, where I can " pre-perform " the last rites for > myself prior to my death knowing that this is the only way to be > certain that family and society would not interfere. > > One of my friends said something like the body is just a waste after > death, so it does not matter what religious rites are provided. > > But is this correct? Isn't some rites needed to be performed for the > soul (atma shanti)? > > Forgive me if my question sounds somewhat weird. But I hope you would > appreciate my predicament especially in view of my background. > > Thank you for your time reading this long email. Please help provide > some guidance. > > Warmest Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Hello, I am absolutely not writing against the guidance given in the mail below. Only telling how I do things differently on two points in my own spiritual sadhana everyday.I am always alert towards my physical body. I do a lot more than bare essentials to keep it going. I am always listening to its need. I try to lessen its pain and suffering using sattvic means so that it remains strong. I am respectful towards it and do not show mental disregard towards it. After all It is my vehicle towards salvation.Having lived with sadhu/holy men for several years I am well aware that many of them are in lot of different physical pain and discomfort and they are still doing their spiritual sadhana.It is good as many people are strong and they can endure pain and still do meditation. But I have noticed when my physical body is in pain and I am doing my everyday sadhana there is a deep subtle current of pain also flowing towards Divine Mother which I find very upsetting. Few times I have said to DivineBeings that instead of love, today's offering is full of pain.I know from my direct personal experience people who have used bare essential to keep their body alive.And when it takes its revenge, there are doctors and hospitals and hospitals and more pain and misery.Their spiritual sadhana gets broken and my own are deeply disturbed. Then there is excuse that it is past life karma.If I will not properly care for my physical body when there is time to do so and it falls ill what will Divine Mother will think?The second thing is that although I am not a yogi my prayers/puja/meditations/japa are not dress rehearsal. They are real things.I am not doing them for my last moments. I am doing them for Divine Mother Who is EverPresent. She resides in Her Dham but She lives in this material world as well.It is her creation and for those who are in this world who constantly calling Her, She is present with them. What will She think if after doing deep loving meditation/japa or ordinary puja, I offer it to her and also add that it is only a dress rehearsal. She might think there seems to be loose screw, has he gone on ganja without me knowing it..I do not even think that only after leaving my body I will get libreation. Our devotion cannot bring Her, only Her Grace can make Her give us Her Bliss. Many times I have said, Mother whole day have passed . When will you appear to me again? I am sure She will come.ThanksLaxmiNarayan--- On Tue, 1/12/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Final Rites Date: Tuesday, 1 December, 2009, 2:46Namaste,Your friend is essentially correct - body has no use or meaning after death. However, your friend is not entirely correct. If one has a deep attachment to the body, mind may be attached to the body even after death, even after the connection of the karmendriyas and jnanendriyas of the mind to the physical body is cut off. Then what happens to the body does affect the mind and its further progress.* * *When one takes sannyasa, i.e renounces material world, the last rites are to be done symbolically. After that, one is dead symbolically. However, if one does not have true renunciation and detachment from body, relatives and other material objects, there is no point in taking sannyasa or doing symbolic last rites. Even if one does it, mind may still be attached to the body. If last rites are not done after death, even a sannyasi's mind may have problems. On the other hand, a true sannyasi who is absolutely detached from the body even when alive will fly high when mind is finally freed from the body at death.* * *One cannot control what others do with one's body after one leaves it. So the wisest course of action would be to develop detachment even when alive. Divert the concern for the well-being of the body towards other people. Do bare minimum to keep the body alive and not be overly concerned about it. When you meditate, think only of god and try to forget that there is a body that you occupy. Even if leg hurts or neck itches, try to forget about it. If you ignore body for a while, it will cry out for attention, like an immature child who needs attention. If you give it attention, you cannot experience god. But, as you ignore body more, body will try more to get your attention (like an immature child who needs attention)! However, if you persist, body will have to eventually give up! THAT is when one can absorb the mind fully in god.If one experiences that often while alive, that experience helps immensely at death. When the mind leaves the body for the last time, one can focus mind on god and ignore the attention grabbing cries for help from the body. One who successfully focuses mind on god when the last moment comes is liberated and gets saayujya or moksha. On the other hand, one who wavers from the focus on god and lets mind turn towards the plight of the dying body gets stuck.To a yogi, each session of deep meditation is like a dress rehearsal of the last moment! Death is not to be feared. If faced correctly, it is the moment of final liberation. Life is meant to be a practice for it!Instead of worrying about body and its last rites, let every ritual be a last rite! I suggest that one should practice detachment and develop the ability to absolutely ignore the pitiful cries of the body for attention as one tries to focus the mind on god and succeed in absorbing the mind in god when meditating. If one practices that, the issue of who does last rites and what rites becomes irrelevant.* * *Of course, one who performs brilliantly in dress rehearsals may still forget one's lines or put a wrong expression when playing the drama finally on the big stage. Similarly, a yogi who has overcome the attachment to body and absorbed the mind perfectly in god many times may still waver at the last moment and think of body or something else that is impermenant and be reborn.However, all that is in our control is to practice and prepare for the last moment.* * *You are lucky. There are many Hindus who do not experience anything like what you described. Keep doing sadhana and overcome the little rawness that may still be left in the consciousness.Best regards,Narasimha- Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,"Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings-|| Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih || Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 body must be healthy to realise godtirumoolar says in his ahama**************previously i thought body as dirtybut i found god living in the bodyas god lives in the bodyiam taking care of my body to the best extent***********without good body health you can never realise godbodily attachment is different from worldly attachmenti remember ramakrishna quoting that if there is a minor defect in the body that person can not realise god.after realising god only ramakrishna neglected his health and did not take care of his bodyonly as he was healthy before he could realise godif he had had mouth cancer when he was young he could not have realised god in this birthLaxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari Sent: Fri, December 4, 2009 5:28:56 AMRe: Re: Final Rites Hello, I am absolutely not writing against the guidance given in the mail below. Only telling how I do things differently on two points in my own spiritual sadhana everyday.I am always alert towards my physical body. I do a lot more than bare essentials to keep it going. I am always listening to its need. I try to lessen its pain and suffering using sattvic means so that it remains strong. I am respectful towards it and do not show mental disregard towards it. After all It is my vehicle towards salvation.Having lived with sadhu/holy men for several years I am well aware that many of them are in lot of different physical pain and discomfort and they are still doing their spiritual sadhana.It is good as many people are strong and they can endure pain and still do meditation. But I have noticed when my physical body is in pain and I am doing my everyday sadhana there is a deep subtle current of pain also flowing towards Divine Mother which I find very upsetting. Few times I have said to DivineBeings that instead of love, today's offering is full of pain.I know from my direct personal experience people who have used bare essential to keep their body alive.And when it takes its revenge, there are doctors and hospitals and hospitals and more pain and misery.Their spiritual sadhana gets broken and my own are deeply disturbed. Then there is excuse that it is past life karma.If I will not properly care for my physical body when there is time to do so and it falls ill what will Divine Mother will think?The second thing is that although I am not a yogi my prayers/puja/ meditations/ japa are not dress rehearsal. They are real things.I am not doing them for my last moments. I am doing them for Divine Mother Who is EverPresent. She resides in Her Dham but She lives in this material world as well.It is her creation and for those who are in this world who constantly calling Her, She is present with them. What will She think if after doing deep loving meditation/japa or ordinary puja, I offer it to her and also add that it is only a dress rehearsal. She might think there seems to be loose screw, has he gone on ganja without me knowing it..I do not even think that only after leaving my body I will get libreation. Our devotion cannot bring Her, only Her Grace can make Her give us Her Bliss. Many times I have said, Mother whole day have passed . When will you appear to me again? I am sure She will come.ThanksLaxmiNarayan--- On Tue, 1/12/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> Re: Final RitesTuesday, 1 December, 2009, 2:46Namaste,Your friend is essentially correct - body has no use or meaning after death. However, your friend is not entirely correct. If one has a deep attachment to the body, mind may be attached to the body even after death, even after the connection of the karmendriyas and jnanendriyas of the mind to the physical body is cut off. Then what happens to the body does affect the mind and its further progress.* * *When one takes sannyasa, i.e renounces material world, the last rites are to be done symbolically. After that, one is dead symbolically. However, if one does not have true renunciation and detachment from body, relatives and other material objects, there is no point in taking sannyasa or doing symbolic last rites. Even if one does it, mind may still be attached to the body. If last rites are not done after death, even a sannyasi's mind may have problems. On the other hand, a true sannyasi who is absolutely detached from the body even when alive will fly high when mind is finally freed from the body at death.* * *One cannot control what others do with one's body after one leaves it. So the wisest course of action would be to develop detachment even when alive. Divert the concern for the well-being of the body towards other people. Do bare minimum to keep the body alive and not be overly concerned about it. When you meditate, think only of god and try to forget that there is a body that you occupy. Even if leg hurts or neck itches, try to forget about it. If you ignore body for a while, it will cry out for attention, like an immature child who needs attention. If you give it attention, you cannot experience god. But, as you ignore body more, body will try more to get your attention (like an immature child who needs attention)! However, if you persist, body will have to eventually give up! THAT is when one can absorb the mind fully in god.If one experiences that often while alive, that experience helps immensely at death. When the mind leaves the body for the last time, one can focus mind on god and ignore the attention grabbing cries for help from the body. One who successfully focuses mind on god when the last moment comes is liberated and gets saayujya or moksha. On the other hand, one who wavers from the focus on god and lets mind turn towards the plight of the dying body gets stuck.To a yogi, each session of deep meditation is like a dress rehearsal of the last moment! Death is not to be feared. If faced correctly, it is the moment of final liberation. Life is meant to be a practice for it!Instead of worrying about body and its last rites, let every ritual be a last rite! I suggest that one should practice detachment and develop the ability to absolutely ignore the pitiful cries of the body for attention as one tries to focus the mind on god and succeed in absorbing the mind in god when meditating. If one practices that, the issue of who does last rites and what rites becomes irrelevant.* * *Of course, one who performs brilliantly in dress rehearsals may still forget one's lines or put a wrong expression when playing the drama finally on the big stage. Similarly, a yogi who has overcome the attachment to body and absorbed the mind perfectly in god many times may still waver at the last moment and think of body or something else that is impermenant and be reborn.However, all that is in our control is to practice and prepare for the last moment.* * *You are lucky. There are many Hindus who do not experience anything like what you described. Keep doing sadhana and overcome the little rawness that may still be left in the consciousness.Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,"Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------------|| Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih || Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 namaste, > if there is a minor defect in the body that person can not realise god. How do you define a defectless body? Is there such a thing? Some people, with defects from birth, went on to become famous sages. Examples include Ashtavakra and Rishyashringa. bhavadiiyaH, ajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 when you meditate if the body defect affects you then it is a defectif you can rectify the defect by nyasa dyana or pranic healing then it is not a defectotherwise you can not advanceanyway that is why our people devisedpranayama and asana to cure body defectsAjit Krishnan <ajit.krishnan Sent: Fri, December 4, 2009 9:56:12 AMRe: Re: Final Rites namaste, > if there is a minor defect in the body that person can not realise god. How do you define a defectless body? Is there such a thing? Some people, with defects from birth, went on to become famous sages. Examples include Ashtavakra and Rishyashringa. bhavadiiyaH, ajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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