Guest guest Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 Can the learned members expound the symbolism, significance and meaning of upaveetham worn by dwijaas? Thanks -gopal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Dear gopi, The concept of Yajnopavitha finds its reference in Taittiriya Aranyaka, Shatapata Brahmana and Samhita bhaga. The sacred thread is called Nivita while worshipping Rishis; is called Praachnavitha while worshipping Pitri Devatas; is called Yajnopavitha while worshipping Devatas. Let us not delve into the controversy of mounji bandhana and upanayana ceremony. The yajnopavitha is spun by a virgin dwija lady and twisted by a dwija uttering Gayatri Mantra. The composition of entire thread is a symbolic representation. The length of the sacred thread is 96 times as the breadth of the four fingers of a man (purusha) which is equal to his OWN height. The 4 fingers represent 4 states of consciousness. The 3 folds of the thread represent the three gunas. The 96 denotes the 96 angushtana pramana purusha prana through the Sushumna Nadi that starts at Muladhara and ends at Sahasrara. The 3 knots of the thread represent Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra Grandhis respectively. The Spinal Column is called Meru Danda or Meru. The 24 principles in our body represent the 24 Bijas of Gayatri Mahamantra. So, the size of the Sacred Thread varies from person to person as the individual should PERSONALLY TAKE CARE IN SPINNING AND WEAVING OF THE UPAVITHA. THERE SHOULD BE DIFFERENCE IN SIZE OWING TO THE SIZE OF ONE'S ANGUSTHA PRAMANA. There are very few families who are still into the traditional and orthodox way of spinning the yajnopavitha. It is better to take the yajnopavitha from these families. Barring these families, it is most unfortunate and the prarabdha karma of the dwijas that even the sacred threads are commercialized and are sold for Rs. 5/- in the SPIRITUAL MARKETS. And even worse is that this Upanayana Ceremony is performed the DAY BEFORE ONE'S MARRIAGE. With regards, Sriram , Gopal G <gopal_gopinath wrote: > > Can the learned members expound the symbolism, significance and meaning of > upaveetham worn by dwijaas? > > Thanks > > -gopal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 [This is approved because it is part of practice. However it will be good to keep focus solely on technical issues related to practice.-Moderators] Dear Sriram: Could you please refer couple of places in Chennai where I can get poonals prepared in traditional method. I am sure that we will not bother to pay any price for that. Regards, Ram On 8/18/08, sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > Dear gopi, > > The concept of Yajnopavitha finds its reference in Taittiriya > Aranyaka, Shatapata Brahmana and Samhita bhaga. The sacred thread is > called Nivita while worshipping Rishis; is called Praachnavitha while > worshipping Pitri Devatas; is called Yajnopavitha while worshipping > Devatas. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Dear ram, We are andhraites and settled down in Hyderabad. So, Tamilnadu and Chennai are quite foreign to us. However, i would suggest you to approach Kamakoti Mutt at kanchipuram. Some of the wonderful families living in the mutt are still into this practice. And Kanchipuram is easily accessible from Chennai (hardly 3 hours journey). Even myself also, whenver i go to Sringeri, i purchase the upavithas on lot which is sufficient for me for 6 months. In Sringeri, the Veda Principal of Krishna Yajurveda Shakha Shri Krishna Bhatt is into this practice. You can approach him. Even in Chidambaram, a dikshitar by name Shri Tillai Nataraja Dikshitar, a good smartha, still continues this practice. Everyone in Chidambaram knows this person. With regards, sriram -- In , Ram <ram.varatharajan wrote: > > [This is approved because it is part of practice. However it will be good to keep focus solely on technical issues related to practice.- Moderators] > > Dear Sriram: > > Could you please refer couple of places in Chennai where I can get poonals > prepared in traditional method. I am sure that we will not bother to pay any > price for that. > > Regards, > Ram > > > On 8/18/08, sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > > > Dear gopi, > > > > The concept of Yajnopavitha finds its reference in Taittiriya > > Aranyaka, Shatapata Brahmana and Samhita bhaga. The sacred thread is > > called Nivita while worshipping Rishis; is called Praachnavitha while > > worshipping Pitri Devatas; is called Yajnopavitha while worshipping > > Devatas. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Thank you Sriram. On 8/19/08, sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > Dear ram, > > We are andhraites and settled down in Hyderabad. So, Tamilnadu and > Chennai are quite foreign to us. However, i would suggest you to > approach Kamakoti Mutt at kanchipuram. Some of the wonderful > families living in the mutt are still into this practice. And > Kanchipuram is easily accessible from Chennai (hardly 3 hours > journey). > > Even myself also, whenver i go to Sringeri, i purchase the upavithas > on lot which is sufficient for me for 6 months. In Sringeri, the Veda > Principal of Krishna Yajurveda Shakha Shri Krishna Bhatt is into this > practice. You can approach him. > > Even in Chidambaram, a dikshitar by name Shri Tillai Nataraja > Dikshitar, a good smartha, still continues this practice. Everyone > in Chidambaram knows this person. > > With regards, > sriram > > -- In <%40>, Ram > <ram.varatharajan wrote: > > > > [This is approved because it is part of practice. However it will > be good to keep focus solely on technical issues related to practice.- > Moderators] > > > > Dear Sriram: > > > > Could you please refer couple of places in Chennai where I can get > poonals > > prepared in traditional method. I am sure that we will not bother > to pay any > > price for that. > > > > Regards, > > Ram > > > > > > On 8/18/08, sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > > > > > Dear gopi, > > > > > > The concept of Yajnopavitha finds its reference in Taittiriya > > > Aranyaka, Shatapata Brahmana and Samhita bhaga. The sacred thread > is > > > called Nivita while worshipping Rishis; is called Praachnavitha > while > > > worshipping Pitri Devatas; is called Yajnopavitha while > worshipping > > > Devatas. > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 namaste, I looked up the relevant section in smriti-mukta-phala. Here are some practical excerpts. **** for dvijas, the upavita is made out of cotton manuH -- kArpAsam upavItam syAt viprasya. **** the upavitam should come down until the bellybutton / nAbhi. Alternatively, it can be a little bit shorter. vasiShTha-shAtAtapau -- nAbhi-samam kuryAt upavItam vicakShaNaH.. devalaH -- stanAt Urdhvam, adho nAbheH na kartavyam kadAcana.. **** the upavitam can be made by any brAhmana-woman. Tradition favours a kanyA. smR^itisAre -- kanyayA nirmitam shubham. bR^ihaspatiH -- jIva-bhartR^ikayA nAryA brAhmaNyA sUtrakam kRitam. bodhAyanaH -- brAhmana-kanyayA brAhmanavidhavayA vA nirmitam sUtram. **** It is made of 3 strands, each made of 3, with one knot shrutiH -- nava vai tR^ivR^it. kAtyAyanaH -- trivR^itam ca upavItam syAt tasya ekaH granthiH iShyate. **** A devata resides on each strand: OM, agni, nAga, soma, pitR^i, prajApati, vAyu, sUrya, vishvedevAH. OMkAra-agnishca nAgashca somaH piR^i-prajApatI. vAyuH sUryo vishvedevAH itete tantu-devatAH. **** Each of these nine devatas, is invoked in the nine threads, and the trinity is invoked [in the knot]. (Though Apastambins don't seem to do it any more, this is still practiced by some friends of mine who follow Bodhayana. They do an entire shoDashopacAra pujA before dhAraNam). abhimantrya atha bhUH agnim ceti varga-trayam tribhiH. hari-brahma-IshvarebhyaH ca praNamya AvAhayet iti.. **** and it is worn with the standard mantra yaGYopavItam ityAdi-mantraH syAt avadhAraNe. yaGYopavIta-mantreNa vyAhR^ityA vA api dhArayet.. **** a brahmacAri wears one yagyopavita, a snAtaka wears 2 or more devalaH -- brahmacAriNaH ekam syAt snAtasya dve bahUni vA. **** the yaGYopavIta must always be worn bhR^iguH -- sadA upavItinA bhAvyam. **** if it gets entangled in any hair, remove it, and purify it with water and gayatri. bhR^iguH -- sUtram salomakam cet syAt tataH kR^itvA vilomakam. sAvitryA dasha kR^itvA .adbhiH mantritAbhiH tat ukShayet. **** if it is broken on purpose (out of anger etc), observe the kRicChA-prAyashcitta. bharadvAjaH -- krodhAt vA yadi vA lobhAt brahma-sUtram Chinatti yaH. saH kuryAt trINi kRicChrANi kRicChram ekam athApi vA.. bhavadIyaH, ajit On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Gopal G <gopal_gopinath wrote: > Can the learned members expound the symbolism, significance and meaning of > upaveetham worn by dwijaas? > > Thanks > > -gopal > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Namaste: May be I am overstepping any common sense here, if so, apologies. I wonder whether upaveedham indicates karana sarira or prana (linga) sarira. A sanyasin does need this, as for an ascetic Atman is the yagnopaveedham. But a student initiated into Brahmavidya is twice born and obtains a path to the awareness of his subtle bodies. Obviously, all undergone upanayanam do not end up as dwijas and one need not have to have upanayanam to be on the path to brahmavidya. sincerely, -gopal --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Ajit Krishnan <ajit.krishnan wrote: Ajit Krishnan <ajit.krishnan Re: significance of upaveetham Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 11:44 AM namaste, I looked up the relevant section in smriti-mukta- phala. Here are some practical excerpts. **** for dvijas, the upavita is made out of cotton manuH -- kArpAsam upavItam syAt viprasya. **** the upavitam should come down until the bellybutton / nAbhi. Alternatively, it can be a little bit shorter. vasiShTha-shAtAtapa u -- nAbhi-samam kuryAt upavItam vicakShaNaH. . devalaH -- stanAt Urdhvam, adho nAbheH na kartavyam kadAcana.. **** the upavitam can be made by any brAhmana-woman. Tradition favours a kanyA. smR^itisAre -- kanyayA nirmitam shubham. bR^ihaspatiH -- jIva-bhartR^ ikayA nAryA brAhmaNyA sUtrakam kRitam. bodhAyanaH -- brAhmana-kanyayA brAhmanavidhavayA vA nirmitam sUtram. **** It is made of 3 strands, each made of 3, with one knot shrutiH -- nava vai tR^ivR^it. kAtyAyanaH -- trivR^itam ca upavItam syAt tasya ekaH granthiH iShyate. **** A devata resides on each strand: OM, agni, nAga, soma, pitR^i, prajApati, vAyu, sUrya, vishvedevAH. OMkAra-agnishca nAgashca somaH piR^i-prajApatI. vAyuH sUryo vishvedevAH itete tantu-devatAH. **** Each of these nine devatas, is invoked in the nine threads, and the trinity is invoked [in the knot]. (Though Apastambins don't seem to do it any more, this is still practiced by some friends of mine who follow Bodhayana. They do an entire shoDashopacAra pujA before dhAraNam). abhimantrya atha bhUH agnim ceti varga-trayam tribhiH. hari-brahma- IshvarebhyaH ca praNamya AvAhayet iti.. **** and it is worn with the standard mantra yaGYopavItam ityAdi-mantraH syAt avadhAraNe. yaGYopavIta- mantreNa vyAhR^ityA vA api dhArayet.. **** a brahmacAri wears one yagyopavita, a snAtaka wears 2 or more devalaH -- brahmacAriNaH ekam syAt snAtasya dve bahUni vA. **** the yaGYopavIta must always be worn bhR^iguH -- sadA upavItinA bhAvyam. **** if it gets entangled in any hair, remove it, and purify it with water and gayatri. bhR^iguH -- sUtram salomakam cet syAt tataH kR^itvA vilomakam. sAvitryA dasha kR^itvA .adbhiH mantritAbhiH tat ukShayet. **** if it is broken on purpose (out of anger etc), observe the kRicChA-prAyashcitt a. bharadvAjaH -- krodhAt vA yadi vA lobhAt brahma-sUtram Chinatti yaH. saH kuryAt trINi kRicChrANi kRicChram ekam athApi vA.. bhavadIyaH, ajit On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Gopal G <gopal_gopinath@ > wrote: > Can the learned members expound the symbolism, significance and meaning of > upaveetham worn by dwijaas? > > Thanks > > -gopal > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Apologies for a misspeak - corrected version is: " I wonder whether upaveedham indicates karana sarira or prana (linga) sarira. A sanyasin does ****NOT***** need this, as foran ascetic, Atman is the yagnopaveedham.... " -gopal --- On Wed, 8/20/08, Gopal G <gopal_gopinath wrote: Gopal G <gopal_gopinath Re: significance of upaveetham Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 9:42 AM Namaste: May be I am overstepping any common sense here, if so, apologies. I wonder whether upaveedham indicates karana sarira or prana (linga) sarira. A sanyasin does need this, as for an ascetic Atman is the yagnopaveedham. But a student initiated into Brahmavidya is twice born and obtains a path to the awareness of his subtle bodies. Obviously, all undergone upanayanam do not end up as dwijas and one need not have to have upanayanam to be on the path to brahmavidya. sincerely, -gopal --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Ajit Krishnan <ajit.krishnan@ gmail.com> wrote: Ajit Krishnan <ajit.krishnan@ gmail.com> Re: significance of upaveetham @ .com Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 11:44 AM namaste, I looked up the relevant section in smriti-mukta- phala. Here are some practical excerpts. **** for dvijas, the upavita is made out of cotton manuH -- kArpAsam upavItam syAt viprasya. **** the upavitam should come down until the bellybutton / nAbhi. Alternatively, it can be a little bit shorter. vasiShTha-shAtAtapa u -- nAbhi-samam kuryAt upavItam vicakShaNaH. . devalaH -- stanAt Urdhvam, adho nAbheH na kartavyam kadAcana.. **** the upavitam can be made by any brAhmana-woman. Tradition favours a kanyA. smR^itisAre -- kanyayA nirmitam shubham. bR^ihaspatiH -- jIva-bhartR^ ikayA nAryA brAhmaNyA sUtrakam kRitam. bodhAyanaH -- brAhmana-kanyayA brAhmanavidhavayA vA nirmitam sUtram. **** It is made of 3 strands, each made of 3, with one knot shrutiH -- nava vai tR^ivR^it. kAtyAyanaH -- trivR^itam ca upavItam syAt tasya ekaH granthiH iShyate. **** A devata resides on each strand: OM, agni, nAga, soma, pitR^i, prajApati, vAyu, sUrya, vishvedevAH. OMkAra-agnishca nAgashca somaH piR^i-prajApatI. vAyuH sUryo vishvedevAH itete tantu-devatAH. **** Each of these nine devatas, is invoked in the nine threads, and the trinity is invoked [in the knot]. (Though Apastambins don't seem to do it any more, this is still practiced by some friends of mine who follow Bodhayana. They do an entire shoDashopacAra pujA before dhAraNam). abhimantrya atha bhUH agnim ceti varga-trayam tribhiH. hari-brahma- IshvarebhyaH ca praNamya AvAhayet iti.. **** and it is worn with the standard mantra yaGYopavItam ityAdi-mantraH syAt avadhAraNe. yaGYopavIta- mantreNa vyAhR^ityA vA api dhArayet.. **** a brahmacAri wears one yagyopavita, a snAtaka wears 2 or more devalaH -- brahmacAriNaH ekam syAt snAtasya dve bahUni vA. **** the yaGYopavIta must always be worn bhR^iguH -- sadA upavItinA bhAvyam. **** if it gets entangled in any hair, remove it, and purify it with water and gayatri. bhR^iguH -- sUtram salomakam cet syAt tataH kR^itvA vilomakam. sAvitryA dasha kR^itvA .adbhiH mantritAbhiH tat ukShayet. **** if it is broken on purpose (out of anger etc), observe the kRicChA-prAyashcitt a. bharadvAjaH -- krodhAt vA yadi vA lobhAt brahma-sUtram Chinatti yaH. saH kuryAt trINi kRicChrANi kRicChram ekam athApi vA.. bhavadIyaH, ajit On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Gopal G <gopal_gopinath@ > wrote: > Can the learned members expound the symbolism, significance and meaning of > upaveetham worn by dwijaas? > > Thanks > > -gopal > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Namaskaram. Upaveetam bestows upon a person the eligibility to perform karmas - " nityakarmanushtana yogyata siddyartam " . Since a sanyasin does not involve in any form of karma - papa or punya - he does not have any requirement for the upaveetam and hence casts it away. Same with the shikha. Although this applies to all the 4 types of sanyasins, I wonder why some Vaishnava Paramahamsa sanyasins wear both the shikha and upaveetam. The Atman acting as an upaveetam for the sanyasin is altogether new to me. Gopal G <gopal_gopinath wrote: Apologies for a misspeak - corrected version is: " I wonder whether upaveedham indicates karana sarira or prana (linga) sarira. A sanyasin does ****NOT***** need this, as foran ascetic, Atman is the yagnopaveedham.... " -gopal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Dear sudarshan, There are 4 types of sanyasins: Kutichaka, Bahudaka, Hamsa and Paramahamsa. Kutichaka resides in his own house under the care of his son seeking bhiksha from his own house. Bahudaka is similar to Kutichaka but is a wandering monk. Both Kutichaka and Bahudaka sanyasins keep shikha and yajnopavitha. They hold tri-danda which is the symbolic representation of mastery over speech, mind and body. Hamsa stays beneath the trees and inside the caves performing the tapas and anushtana. He does not stay in the village for more than 5 nights. Adopting the bhikshu vritti, he shines with Kaupina and Paduka. For Hamsas, the liberation is called Krama Mukthi. Paramahamsa is somewhat higher than Hamsa state which eka-danda. This state is Jivanmuktha sthithi. And above all 4, there is 5th state called Avadhuta. This is the state in which resides Bhagavan Suka Brahman, Bhagavan Dattatreya, Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra Saraswathi, Bhagavan Seshadri Swamigal of Tiruvannamalai etc. There is no varna asrama dharma to be followed for these persons who reside in 5th state who are called " AtrivarnAsramIs " . AS REGARDS THE ATMAN AS UPAVITHA FOR SANYASINS, I TOO NEVER HEARD THIS STATEMENT BEFORE. NEITHER HAVE I HEARD OF KARANA OR LINGA SARIRA REGARDING UPAVITHA. The story of Upavitha in Taittirya Brahmana goes like this: A rishi called Devabhaga Gautama was the Agni Upasaka. Having mastered the Veda Vidya, worshipped the Savirtri in the form of Agni. As a result of his upasana, the Agni answers his prayers in the form of akasa vani. When Gautama asks the identity of the invisible voice, the voice answers and reveals the identity as the Radiance of the Sun. On hearing this, the Rishi Gautama makes his own uttariya as Upavitha and wears it on his left shoulder and prostrates before the Agni. He wore it as it should have been worn during the Sacrifice (Yajna) and hence it is called " Yajna Upavitha " . So, the concept of Upavitha and Upanayana during the Vedic Period is entirely different from what we understand now. There was a practice of MOUNJI BANDHANA in the days of yore which is a string of Kusa / Darbha Grass entwined with Deer Skin. This ritual is still practiced but is reduced as a ritual only where a small piece of deer skin is tied with the sacred thread during the ceremony. During this ceremony, the Vatu or Brahmachari is taken to the Vedic Master for commencing of vedic studies. With regards, Sriram , sudarshan balasubramanian <sudarshanbalasubramanian wrote: > > Namaskaram. > > Upaveetam bestows upon a person the eligibility to perform karmas - " nityakarmanushtana yogyata siddyartam " . Since a sanyasin does not involve in any form of karma - papa or punya - he does not have any requirement for the upaveetam and hence casts it away. Same with the shikha. Although this applies to all the 4 types of sanyasins, I wonder why some Vaishnava Paramahamsa sanyasins wear both the shikha and upaveetam. The Atman acting as an upaveetam for the sanyasin is altogether new to me. > > Gopal G <gopal_gopinath wrote: > Apologies for a misspeak - corrected version is: > > " I wonder whether upaveedham indicates karana sarira or prana (linga) sarira. A sanyasin does ****NOT***** need this, as foran ascetic, Atman is the yagnopaveedham.... " > > -gopal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Dear Sriramji and Sudharshan, I was referring to Jabalopanishad:5 - dialog between Atri and Yagnavalkya. Obviously, the translations are different (unavoidable due to my ignorance of that much sanskrit to read it firsthand). In one translation it says 'Atma is the upaveetham'. Radhakrishnan says " Self purification by sipping water " is the upaveetham for the rishis. That is the root cause of the confusion and I stand corrected. Still, i am searching for a deeper symbolism for yagnopaveetham other than as a garment required for commencing studies and performing yagna. thanks, -gopal --- On Thu, 8/21/08, sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: sriram <sriram_sapthasathi Re: significance of upaveetham Thursday, August 21, 2008, 1:57 AM Dear sudarshan, There are 4 types of sanyasins: Kutichaka, Bahudaka, Hamsa and Paramahamsa. Kutichaka resides in his own house under the care of his son seeking bhiksha from his own house. Bahudaka is similar to Kutichaka but is a wandering monk. Both Kutichaka and Bahudaka sanyasins keep shikha and yajnopavitha. They hold tri-danda which is the symbolic representation of mastery over speech, mind and body. Hamsa stays beneath the trees and inside the caves performing the tapas and anushtana. He does not stay in the village for more than 5 nights. Adopting the bhikshu vritti, he shines with Kaupina and Paduka. For Hamsas, the liberation is called Krama Mukthi. Paramahamsa is somewhat higher than Hamsa state which eka-danda. This state is Jivanmuktha sthithi. And above all 4, there is 5th state called Avadhuta. This is the state in which resides Bhagavan Suka Brahman, Bhagavan Dattatreya, Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra Saraswathi, Bhagavan Seshadri Swamigal of Tiruvannamalai etc. There is no varna asrama dharma to be followed for these persons who reside in 5th state who are called " AtrivarnAsramIs " . AS REGARDS THE ATMAN AS UPAVITHA FOR SANYASINS, I TOO NEVER HEARD THIS STATEMENT BEFORE. NEITHER HAVE I HEARD OF KARANA OR LINGA SARIRA REGARDING UPAVITHA. The story of Upavitha in Taittirya Brahmana goes like this: A rishi called Devabhaga Gautama was the Agni Upasaka. Having mastered the Veda Vidya, worshipped the Savirtri in the form of Agni. As a result of his upasana, the Agni answers his prayers in the form of akasa vani. When Gautama asks the identity of the invisible voice, the voice answers and reveals the identity as the Radiance of the Sun. On hearing this, the Rishi Gautama makes his own uttariya as Upavitha and wears it on his left shoulder and prostrates before the Agni. He wore it as it should have been worn during the Sacrifice (Yajna) and hence it is called " Yajna Upavitha " . So, the concept of Upavitha and Upanayana during the Vedic Period is entirely different from what we understand now. There was a practice of MOUNJI BANDHANA in the days of yore which is a string of Kusa / Darbha Grass entwined with Deer Skin. This ritual is still practiced but is reduced as a ritual only where a small piece of deer skin is tied with the sacred thread during the ceremony. During this ceremony, the Vatu or Brahmachari is taken to the Vedic Master for commencing of vedic studies. With regards, Sriram @ .com, sudarshan balasubramanian <sudarshanbalasubra manian@.. .> wrote: > > Namaskaram. > > Upaveetam bestows upon a person the eligibility to perform karmas - " nityakarmanushtana yogyata siddyartam " . Since a sanyasin does not involve in any form of karma - papa or punya - he does not have any requirement for the upaveetam and hence casts it away. Same with the shikha. Although this applies to all the 4 types of sanyasins, I wonder why some Vaishnava Paramahamsa sanyasins wear both the shikha and upaveetam. The Atman acting as an upaveetam for the sanyasin is altogether new to me. > > Gopal G <gopal_gopinath@ ...> wrote: > Apologies for a misspeak - corrected version is: > > " I wonder whether upaveedham indicates karana sarira or prana (linga) sarira. A sanyasin does ****NOT***** need this, as foran ascetic, Atman is the yagnopaveedham. ... " > > -gopal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Why all these confusion. The yagyopaveetham is just to remind one of constance remambrance of god, becuse it passes through the athma (heart beat point) for everyone who are wearing the yagnopaveetham. That is why Brahmins wear the same - one who has realised God and is in constant touch with the Divine Energy. That is also why people are asked to chant abhivathaye....whenever they offer their namaskarams to elders, who are always in a state of ectacy - remembering God- and are not aware of even their surroundings. That is why we tell our gotram and name to bring them down to the earthly state, as blessings need one's will and divine energy to be used. S.Shangaranarayanan : gopal_gopinath: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:10:56 -0700Re: Re: significance of upaveetham Dear Sriramji and Sudharshan,I was referring to Jabalopanishad:5 - dialog between Atri and Yagnavalkya. Obviously, the translations are different (unavoidable due to my ignorance of that much sanskrit to read it firsthand). In one translation it says 'Atma is the upaveetham'. Radhakrishnan says " Self purification by sipping water " is the upaveetham for the rishis. That is the root cause of the confusion and I stand corrected. Still, i am searching for a deeper symbolism for yagnopaveetham other than as a garment required for commencing studies and performing yagna.thanks,-gopal--- On Thu, 8/21/08, sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote:sriram <sriram_sapthasathi Re: significance of upaveetham: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 1:57 AMDear sudarshan,There are 4 types of sanyasins: Kutichaka, Bahudaka, Hamsa and Paramahamsa.Kutichaka resides in his own house under the care of his son seeking bhiksha from his own house. Bahudaka is similar to Kutichaka but is a wandering monk. Both Kutichaka and Bahudaka sanyasins keep shikha and yajnopavitha. They hold tri-danda which is the symbolic representation of mastery over speech, mind and body. Hamsa stays beneath the trees and inside the caves performing the tapas and anushtana. He does not stay in the village for more than 5 nights. Adopting the bhikshu vritti, he shines with Kaupina and Paduka. For Hamsas, the liberation is called Krama Mukthi. Paramahamsa is somewhat higher than Hamsa state which eka-danda. This state is Jivanmuktha sthithi. And above all 4, there is 5th state called Avadhuta. This is the state in which resides Bhagavan Suka Brahman, Bhagavan Dattatreya, Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra Saraswathi, Bhagavan Seshadri Swamigal of Tiruvannamalai etc. There is no varna asrama dharma to be followed for these persons who reside in 5th state who are called " AtrivarnAsramIs " . AS REGARDS THE ATMAN AS UPAVITHA FOR SANYASINS, I TOO NEVER HEARD THIS STATEMENT BEFORE. NEITHER HAVE I HEARD OF KARANA OR LINGA SARIRA REGARDING UPAVITHA. The story of Upavitha in Taittirya Brahmana goes like this:A rishi called Devabhaga Gautama was the Agni Upasaka. Having mastered the Veda Vidya, worshipped the Savirtri in the form of Agni. As a result of his upasana, the Agni answers his prayers in the form of akasa vani. When Gautama asks the identity of the invisible voice, the voice answers and reveals the identity as the Radiance of the Sun. On hearing this, the Rishi Gautama makes his own uttariya as Upavitha and wears it on his left shoulder and prostrates before the Agni. He wore it as it should have been worn during the Sacrifice (Yajna) and hence it is called " Yajna Upavitha " . So, the concept of Upavitha and Upanayana during the Vedic Period is entirely different from what we understand now. There was a practice of MOUNJI BANDHANA in the days of yore which is a string of Kusa / Darbha Grass entwined with Deer Skin. This ritual is still practiced but is reduced as a ritual only where a small piece of deer skin is tied with the sacred thread during the ceremony. During this ceremony, the Vatu or Brahmachari is taken to the Vedic Master for commencing of vedic studies. With regards,Sriram @ .com, sudarshan balasubramanian <sudarshanbalasubra manian@.. .> wrote:>> Namaskaram.> > Upaveetam bestows upon a person the eligibility to perform karmas - " nityakarmanushtana yogyata siddyartam " . Since a sanyasin does not involve in any form of karma - papa or punya - he does not have any requirement for the upaveetam and hence casts it away. Same with the shikha. Although this applies to all the 4 types of sanyasins, I wonder why some Vaishnava Paramahamsa sanyasins wear both the shikha and upaveetam. The Atman acting as an upaveetam for the sanyasin is altogether new to me. > > Gopal G <gopal_gopinath@ ...> wrote:> Apologies for a misspeak - corrected version is: > > " I wonder whether upaveedham indicates karana sarira or prana (linga) sarira. A sanyasin does ****NOT***** need this, as foran ascetic, Atman is the yagnopaveedham. ... " > > -gopal> _______________ Chose your Life Partner? Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://www.shaadi.com/msn/matrimony.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Dear gopal, Apasthamba Sutras say that without Shikha and Yajnopavitha, the Karmanushtana is as good as doing nothing. So, the Yajnopavitha is a donned for adhikara in performing karmanushtana. Now, Yajnopavitha is also called " shannavathi " ie., the upavitha is spun in such a way that its length is 96 times the breadth of one's four fingers. The number 96 has got a special significance in Karmanushtana as well in Yoga Sastra. Satapatha Brahmana says that " Samvatsaro vai prajapathih " . Prajapathi is in the form of 365 days. In the span of 365 days, there are important parvaas (pradhana parvaas) including surya sankramanas which are number 96. This 96 also is the pradhana devata ganas including naga, matrika, nakratra, yogini, grahas etc. So, to perform the karmanushtana of these 96 devata ganas, the Shannavathi gives one the adhikara of worship of 96 ganas. This Shannavathi also gives one the adhikara to perform the anushtana on 96 pradhana parvas. One should maintain the Tretagni Upasana (Garhapatya, Dakshina, Ahavaniya) till one has Yajnopavitha, Katisutra and Sikha. And hence, a married person is called " GRI-HASTHA " because staying (STHA) in house (GRIHA), he should maintain the Agni Upasana. Now, the Sanyasi does not maintain the Shikha, Katisutra and Yajnopavitha because he should neither touch the Agni nor worship the Agni. And hence, he is called NIR-AGNI. In Yoga Sastra, this 96 pramana upavitha represent the 96 angushtana pramana purusha prana which is spread along with the pindanda of the Jiva (from Muladhara to Brahmarandhra). From Brahmarandhra again 12 angushta pramana prana is pervaded in the form of Sukshma Prana. So, this 96+12 becomes 108 angushta pramana prana vyapthi. This is the Prana-tattva of Pindanda. Now, Sanyasi has also got the Upavitha. A number of 12 sutras are entwined and tied to the Eka-danda (staff). This 12 sutras alongwith the Danda is the Upavitha for Sanyasis. There is a special Danda Puja, Tarpana, Japa and Anushtana Krama to this Eka Danda of Sanyasis. THIS DANDA IS THE NARAYANA SWARUPA FOR THE YATIS. A YATI SHOULD NOT PART A MOMENT FROM THIS DANDA WHICH IS THE UPAVITHA FOR THEM. IF DANDA IS LOST, THE YATI SHOULD FAST AND DO PRANAVA JAPA AND PRAYASCHITA TILL A NEW DANDA IS OBTAINED FROM HIS GURU OR ANOTHER YATI OF HIS CADRE. Only Avadhuta does not carry the Danda, Kamandala and Paduka. He is free from all these varna asrama dharmas. Because, for him nothing remains to be attained as he himself has become the Brahma Swarupa. With regards, Sriram , Gopal G <gopal_gopinath wrote: > > Dear Sriramji and Sudharshan, > > I was referring to Jabalopanishad:5 - dialog between Atri and Yagnavalkya. Obviously, the translations are different (unavoidable due to my ignorance of that much sanskrit to read it firsthand). In one translation it says 'Atma is the upaveetham'. Radhakrishnan says " Self purification by sipping water " is the upaveetham for the rishis. That is the root cause of the confusion and I stand corrected. > > Still, i am searching for a deeper symbolism for yagnopaveetham other than as a garment required for commencing studies and performing yagna. > > thanks, > > -gopal --- On Thu, 8/21/08, sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > sriram <sriram_sapthasathi > Re: significance of upaveetham > > Thursday, August 21, 2008, 1:57 AM > > > > > Dear sudarshan, > > > > There are 4 types of sanyasins: Kutichaka, Bahudaka, Hamsa and > > Paramahamsa. > > > > Kutichaka resides in his own house under the care of his son seeking > > bhiksha from his own house. Bahudaka is similar to Kutichaka but is a > > wandering monk. Both Kutichaka and Bahudaka sanyasins keep shikha > > and yajnopavitha. They hold tri-danda which is the symbolic > > representation of mastery over speech, mind and body. > > > > Hamsa stays beneath the trees and inside the caves performing the > > tapas and anushtana. He does not stay in the village for more than 5 > > nights. Adopting the bhikshu vritti, he shines with Kaupina and > > Paduka. For Hamsas, the liberation is called Krama Mukthi. > > > > Paramahamsa is somewhat higher than Hamsa state which eka-danda. > > This state is Jivanmuktha sthithi. > > > > And above all 4, there is 5th state called Avadhuta. This is the > > state in which resides Bhagavan Suka Brahman, Bhagavan Dattatreya, > > Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra Saraswathi, Bhagavan Seshadri Swamigal of > > Tiruvannamalai etc. There is no varna asrama dharma to be followed > > for these persons who reside in 5th state who are > > called " AtrivarnAsramIs " . > > > > AS REGARDS THE ATMAN AS UPAVITHA FOR SANYASINS, I TOO NEVER HEARD > > THIS STATEMENT BEFORE. NEITHER HAVE I HEARD OF KARANA OR LINGA > > SARIRA REGARDING UPAVITHA. > > > > The story of Upavitha in Taittirya Brahmana goes like this: > > > > A rishi called Devabhaga Gautama was the Agni Upasaka. Having > > mastered the Veda Vidya, worshipped the Savirtri in the form of > > Agni. As a result of his upasana, the Agni answers his prayers in > > the form of akasa vani. When Gautama asks the identity of the > > invisible voice, the voice answers and reveals the identity as the > > Radiance of the Sun. On hearing this, the Rishi Gautama makes his > > own uttariya as Upavitha and wears it on his left shoulder and > > prostrates before the Agni. He wore it as it should have been worn > > during the Sacrifice (Yajna) and hence it is called " Yajna > > Upavitha " . > > > > So, the concept of Upavitha and Upanayana during the Vedic Period is > > entirely different from what we understand now. > > > > There was a practice of MOUNJI BANDHANA in the days of yore which is > > a string of Kusa / Darbha Grass entwined with Deer Skin. This ritual > > is still practiced but is reduced as a ritual only where a small > > piece of deer skin is tied with the sacred thread during the > > ceremony. During this ceremony, the Vatu or Brahmachari is taken to > > the Vedic Master for commencing of vedic studies. > > > > With regards, > > Sriram > > > > @ .com, sudarshan balasubramanian > > <sudarshanbalasubra manian@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaram. > > > > > > Upaveetam bestows upon a person the eligibility to perform > > karmas - " nityakarmanushtana yogyata siddyartam " . Since a sanyasin > > does not involve in any form of karma - papa or punya - he does not > > have any requirement for the upaveetam and hence casts it away. Same > > with the shikha. Although this applies to all the 4 types of > > sanyasins, I wonder why some Vaishnava Paramahamsa sanyasins wear > > both the shikha and upaveetam. The Atman acting as an upaveetam for > > the sanyasin is altogether new to me. > > > > > > Gopal G <gopal_gopinath@ ...> wrote: > > > Apologies for a misspeak - corrected version is: > > > > > > " I wonder whether upaveedham indicates karana sarira or prana > > (linga) sarira. A sanyasin does ****NOT***** need this, as foran > > ascetic, Atman is the yagnopaveedham. ... " > > > > > > -gopal > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.