Tantra Prayoga - a misconception

[Guest guest]

Dear sir,

 

As long as the spiritual aspirant balances the 4 purusharthas ie., dharma,

artha, kama and moksha, there is no downfall in his life.

 

The problem comes when the objective of tantra is artha & kama through

*adharma*. Several aspirants fail here in tantra prayoga

because their objective would be either sensual gratification or abhicharika

prayoga under the influence of personal grudges. And thus starts their

downfall.

 

This is wrong. Tantra can be applied by highly skilled sadhakas who have

perfect control over their senses and have love for humanity.

 

There is an interesting incident how the Manyu Sukta came about.

 

There was an outbreak of civil war in the kingdom and it seems a certain king

sought refuge of the Seer Manyu. The Sage Manyu contemplated on the " Presiding

Deity of Anger " that could counter the attack of Kritya Prayoga. The sage

envisioned this Sukta and immediately 14 riks gushed out from him. And the

result was that the enemies who attacked the king fled alongwith their army.

This was reflected in the last rik which forms the mula mantra of Manyu Sukta:

 

// samsruShTam dhanam ............apa nilayantAm //

 

The vashikarana prayoga is done for the married couple who got separated. This

should not be understood as para-stri vashikarana. Kritya prayoga was done by

raja purohits when there was an outbreak of war.

 

My gurunatha told me an incident in the life of Sir Arthur Avalon alias John

Woodroofe. This may or may not be true. Sir Avalon when he was working as

Governor General of Calcutta Court, used to see a beautiful girl and fell in

love with her. But it seems, it was a one-sided love and the girl was not

interested in him. Sir Avalon, by that time, was adept in mantra shastra

performed Vashikarana Prayoga on that girl. The same night in a dream, a yogini

appeared to Avalon and scolded him and advised not to use the tantra for *tuccha

prayojana*. Having wished him a bright future in shakti sadhana, that yogini

disappeared.

 

Later after that incident, he met the great yogini Gangabai, who was a great

yogini who mastered Rg Veda and usage of weapons. It is said that Gangabai also

taught certain usage of weaponry to Jhansi Lakshmi Bai. A great tantric having

undergone Krama diksha in Kali Kula Tantra. And thus started the spiritual

journey of Sir Arthur Avalon from his *tuccha tantrika prayoga* to the highest

realms of Srividya Upasana.

 

Similarly rest of the prayogas. So, i don't see any harm in these prayogas so

long as they are used for benefit of the humanity.

 

With regards,

sriram

 

, S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote:

>

> Dear Divine souls,

>

> Let us not cross track. I know eprsonally a very powerful person want to a

prathyinkira upasaka and did several havans for the anihilation of the enemy

using red chillies in the proyoga. What happened was the enemy got more and more

powerful and the person who undertook the yagna, went down in personality,

environment etc. Further when red chillies are coated with Neem oil or even

castor oil and then put into fire it would not emit chillies gas and make the

devotee's eye swet.

>

> Whatever said and done, no diety of the divine mother will anihilate any one,

because DIVINE MOTHER IS COMPASSIONATE, KARUNYAMURTHY AND SHE CANNOT HAVE

DEVATAS FOR PUNISHMENT. BY SUCH MEANINGLESS PRAYOGA ONE DESTROYS ONESELF.

>

> The proyogas are meant purely to correct oneself - for instance if a person

comes to harm a upasaka, by chanting asvaruda, the intruder goes away because he

forgets his intention as he advances. There are a many number of personal

experiences.

>

>

>

> Let us be happy.

>

> S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

>

>

>

>

> rganti9

> Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:04:04 -0700

> Re: Re: Prathyinkira vidhanam

>

Sri Gurubhyon Namaha

> Dear Satish Ji

> My apologies for saying that " Why go after all?this when it is given in

Lalitha sahasranama phala shruthi that Pratyangira protects the devotees of

Ambal, and she is a spec of Ambal's power " what i meant was that the upasana of

these dieties is meant for a mature person?, one who is

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sriram

 

Thanks for your mesg on this subject. I am reminded of what the Durgai Siddhar

of Padappai used to say : " As long as your sankalpam is a subhasankalpam and

this is for the righteous benefit of even one person residing on this bhumI,

even if you have not attained siddhi in a manthra, the devi helps that person to

get the benefit through your prayers. If you have attained siddhi in a manthra,

then you should use it only for subha sankalpam, else the devi will stop helping

you. "

 

srI harI

Gopi 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, Gopi <antarurjas wrote:

>

> Dear Sriram

> ?

> Thanks for your mesg on this subject. I am?reminded of what the >Durgai

Siddhar of Padappai used to say : " As long as your sankalpam >is a

subhasankalpam and this is for the righteous benefit of even >one >person

residing on this bhumI, even if you have not attained >siddhi in >a manthra, the

devi helps that person to get the benefit >through your >prayers. If you have

attained siddhi in a manthra, >then you should use >it only for subha sankalpam,

else the devi will >stop helping you. "

 

 

prayoga-s whether done with good or bad intentions can be harmful if the

procedure is not followed corectly.

 

The " prayoga process " does not " think " in terms of good or bad intentions. It

depends on the mantra siddhi, and correct performance.

As some describe, it is raw, it has its own way of looking at things and and it

has its limitations and it is not easy to control.

 

For example, experts confirm that when pa~nchadashI is used for prayoga-s, even

if done correctly and the desired result obtained, it brings misery to the one

who deploys it. I don't the why of it.

 

That said, good intentions do play a part but maybe not in the way we think:

Here is a real life example to show how: There is a certain mahApuruSha who is

learned in these things and was performing a prayoga for somebody(they

approached him for help) of course with the best of intentions(only helping

others in distress). But as bad luck would have it, there crept an error into

the prayoga process and because of that, his entire right side of the body would

have been paralyzed. But due to " divine intervention " ,(My guess is that the

error was somehow brought to his notice in a timely manner - just my guess) the

non-functioning was limited only to a small part of the right side of his body.

 

This isn't a story heard from so and so person... I typed in what the performer

himself told me...

 

MM.

[Guest guest]

Dear sir,

 

<<<prayoga-s whether done with good or bad intentions can be harmful if the

procedure is not followed corectly>>

 

***************

 

This is true. This is something similar to a chemical experiment in a

laboratory. Even if you know the result, if you cannot take proper precautions

while deling with acids, you are prone to accidents

 

<<For example, experts confirm that when pa~nchadashI is used for prayoga-s,

even if done correctly and the desired result obtained, it brings misery to the

one who deploys it. I don't the why of it>>

 

***************

 

During the prayoga, the deployer takes the the karmic effects (good & bad) of

the opponent upon himself. And hence, the misery and sufferings even if the

prayoga is successful. Whatever the prarabdha karma of the opponent be, the

deployer has to suffer.

 

Regs,

sriram

 

 

, " Lavendar, Lilac " <go_kshiiram wrote:

>

>

> , Gopi <antarurjas@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sriram

> > ?

> > Thanks for your mesg on this subject. I am?reminded of what the >Durgai

Siddhar of Padappai used to say : " As long as your sankalpam >is a

subhasankalpam and this is for the righteous benefit of even >one >person

residing on this bhumI, even if you have not attained >siddhi in >a manthra, the

devi helps that person to get the benefit >through your >prayers. If you have

attained siddhi in a manthra, >then you should use >it only for subha sankalpam,

else the devi will >stop helping you. "

>

>

> prayoga-s whether done with good or bad intentions can be harmful if the

procedure is not followed corectly.

>

> The " prayoga process " does not " think " in terms of good or bad intentions. It

depends on the mantra siddhi, and correct performance.

> As some describe, it is raw, it has its own way of looking at things and and

it has its limitations and it is not easy to control.

>

> For example, experts confirm that when pa~nchadashI is used for prayoga-s,

even if done correctly and the desired result obtained, it brings misery to the

one who deploys it. I don't the why of it.

>

> That said, good intentions do play a part but maybe not in the way we think:

> Here is a real life example to show how: There is a certain mahApuruSha who is

learned in these things and was performing a prayoga for somebody(they

approached him for help) of course with the best of intentions(only helping

others in distress). But as bad luck would have it, there crept an error into

the prayoga process and because of that, his entire right side of the body would

have been paralyzed. But due to " divine intervention " ,(My guess is that the

error was somehow brought to his notice in a timely manner - just my guess) the

non-functioning was limited only to a small part of the right side of his body.

>

> This isn't a story heard from so and so person... I typed in what the

performer himself told me...

>

> MM.

>

[Guest guest]

, Gopi <antarurjas wrote:

>

> Dear Sriram

>  

> Thanks for your mesg on this subject. I am reminded of what the >Durgai

Siddhar of Padappai used to say : " As long as your sankalpam >is a

subhasankalpam and this is for the righteous benefit of even >one person

residing on this bhumI, even if you have not attained >siddhi in a manthra, the

devi helps that person to get the benefit >through your prayers.

 

 

I am not implying that you are mixing mantra-s and prayers, but we should be

careful not to mix these two. A mantra is something which does not require blind

belief in its existence or efficacy. You cant say the same thing about prayers.

 

One more thing to remember is we see stories(sometimes highly exaggereted) of

mantra prayoga-s in purANa-s and itihAsa-s and in a number of places. These can

be verified because even today we have people performing them and showing

results.

 

 

We also have stories of Meera Bhai, Tukaram etc performing magical feats through

praying or singing. It gets even funnier: Sometimes you hear stories of how they

overpowered duShta mAntrika-s by what..singing songs. Lol. The difference is

that these are just that i.e. nothing more than stories. But I think people fall

for this kind of stuff because it is emotionally satisfying and *looks* easy.

 

maybe there are bhakta-s who can bring rain(or do such things) by singing

devotional songs or through sharaNAgati? I personally havent seen any.

 

*bhakta-s* - Most upAsaka-s have iShTa devata-s and have bhakti(i.e. anurAga -

reverence/attachment towards that divinity) towards it ofcourse. When I say

bhakta-s, I am specifically referring to the kind like for ex: tukArAM. My

intentions should be understood properly here.

 

A discussion on the commentary of nArada bhakti sUtra-s will be appropriate here

I think.

 

> If you have attained siddhi in a manthra, then you should use it >only for

subha sankalpam, else the devi will stop helping you. "

 

There is truth in this. According to the linga purANa, hiraNyakashipu is

wrecking havoc through the grace of aghora rudra i.e. aghora mantra. Since he

uses it to torture brAhmaNa-s, yati-s, muni-s, aghora rudra renders it

ineffective *after some time*. Note that it was unfailing till that point.

[Guest guest]

A prayogam is a prayogam period. The efficacy of the prayogam depends on the

mantra siddhi of the person (has he/she completed the required purascharanam

etc..) the mantra by itself is inert.

If the person is an adept, then the prayogam will bear fruit in most cases

irrespective of the reason for why the prayogam is employed, whether for good or

for evil. The cases where it fails are

1) the performer has made a mistake or is not sufficiently qualified

2) the person being targeted is well protected with kavacham etc.. like Sarabha

can be countered by Ghandabherunda.

3) the person being targeted has burnt all his karma and hence nothing will

affect him

 

There are enough shatru samhara and other prayogas in the vedas too and there is

no need to come up with fanciful explanations that the shatru is ones ego etc..

there need not be a million vashikarana/uchattana/sthambana/../... mantras just

to control the ego :-)

 

Having said that, there is a completely different part of it related to karma

and the after effects on the one performing the prayoga, his capacity to bear

the ricochet not only to him and his after life and future birth but also his

progeny etc

 

regards

vishwam

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Satish <satisharigela

 

Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:21:25 PM

Re: Tantra Prayoga - a misconception

 

 

 

 

 

@ .com, Gopi <antarurjas@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear Sriram

>

> Thanks for your mesg on this subject. I am reminded of what the >Durgai

Siddhar of Padappai used to say : " As long as your sankalpam >is a

subhasankalpam and this is for the righteous benefit of even >one person

residing on this bhumI, even if you have not attained >siddhi in a manthra, the

devi helps that person to get the benefit >through your prayers.

 

I am not implying that you are mixing mantra-s and prayers, but we should be

careful not to mix these two. A mantra is something which does not require blind

belief in its existence or efficacy. You cant say the same thing about prayers.

 

One more thing to remember is we see stories(sometimes highly exaggereted) of

mantra prayoga-s in purANa-s and itihAsa-s and in a number of places. These can

be verified because even today we have people performing them and showing

results.

 

We also have stories of Meera Bhai, Tukaram etc performing magical feats through

praying or singing. It gets even funnier: Sometimes you hear stories of how they

overpowered duShta mAntrika-s by what..singing songs. Lol. The difference is

that these are just that i.e. nothing more than stories. But I think people fall

for this kind of stuff because it is emotionally satisfying and *looks* easy.

 

maybe there are bhakta-s who can bring rain(or do such things) by singing

devotional songs or through sharaNAgati? I personally havent seen any.