Ksham Ksham Ksham!! = Bliss! Bliss! Bliss!!(REPLY)

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Rajarajeshwari_Kalpataru , " rajita_rajvasishth "

<rajita_rajvasishth> wrote:

>

> I hope you were not offended by my original statement. I was only

> pointing to the website and not questioning your knowledge. What I

> meant was to be precise was: the Seer of the mantra: yAM

> kalpayan...(I can only use the Pratika) that is used in the

> Pratyangira homa/tarpanaM (as per tradition I am in) is Pratichina

> Angirasa. This Rishi of the Angirasa clan of the family of

> Bharadvajas. This confirmed by the indices of the two Samhitaas of

the

> Atharvaveda: Paippalada and Shaunaka.

 

 

REPLY:Iam not offended in the least. I have thanked you for

pointing out to the fact in the posting.Also, Iam not knowledgable.

I have many defects and still have to overcome them

Your statement itself has an asnwer. I wanted to point that out in

the last posting but I avoided it.

 

Pratichina Angeerasa is a scion of the Angeerasa clan and since His

forefather, Angeerasa Himself had evolved the moola mantra and had

the first vision the sampradaya was carried on.

 

There is no doubt that Pratichina Angeerasa of the Angeerasa clan

and the family of Bharadvaja is confirmed by the indices of the two

samhitas of the Atharva Veda: Paippalada(of the Pippala maharshi who

framed the famous Pippalada Shani Stotra) and Shaunaka(The great

vedic seer who along with 10,000 of his shishyas engaged in a 1,000

year sattra in Naimisharanya.) But this does not go to prove that

Prathyangirasa and Angirasa were not the dathas.

 

It has the following logical fallacy:

 

A is because of B and D.

 

A substatement B' is created and is substantiated to be the cause of

A and not B and D.

 

To prove B', C' and D' are putforth. This has no causal relationship.

 

Thus the Tarkawada fails here. Though I hate to engage in such

logical diatribes and hurt people.

 

 

 

>

> Now it is indeed clear that the Tantric mantras to Pratyangira (of

> which we use about 6 different ones and one in combination with

> Sharabha and Shulini) have different Seers. For most of them we

> declare the Rishi as Atharva or Bhargava in in the Nyasa.

 

REPLY:

Nyasa Rishi is the person who first perfected that Mantra and hence

as a mark of reapect and also to invoke that Rishi's energy and

blessings we chant the name of the Rishi. Infact there is even a

Rishi Nyasa.

 

But that does not mean that Prathyagirasa and Angeerasa were not the

first rishis who saw the Devi and thus as a mark of respect the Devi

was named Prathyangira Devi.

 

 

This has the following logical fallacy:

 

A is said to come because of B and C

 

A also has six other forms A1,A2,A3,A4,A5,A6 and since B1 and C1

form the cause of A1 or any of the other 5, A is ascribed with the

cause in other words an erroneous logic comes forth where A is

caused by B1 and C1.

 

 

>

> From what you say may be some texts might call " Pratyangiras " a

Rishi,

> but per say we have little evidence for that in the oldest layers

of

> texts. The Yajur Samhitas have a collection termed the

Pratyangirasam

> and the Rgvidhana also mentions a variant of yAM kalpayan...

which is

> known as Pratyangirasam. From this term in the later days the term

> " Pratyangiras " might have been taken as a Rishi's name

 

 

First let me clarify that that this is not my opinion.

 

It is the opinion of Najan ji who was a great Srividya Upasaka who

used to talk to Amba.

 

Secondly, even otherwise there are certain terms to be clarified

 

Kalpayan means a 'way of arranging' and let me add trenchantly here

 

Kalpayan vrittim Aatmanaha--- the way of arranging is for the soul ultimately

with an intermediary physical element.

 

" 'oldest layers of texts " : What this means is not clearly known.

Some say that Rigveda is the oldest and thus an authority or an

authentic veda. But Lord Brahma in Srigurucharitra has said there

are many other older vedas.In fact tons of them.

 

Atharvana Veda contains the knowledge given by sage Athrvana. Some state that

sage Athrvana did not formulate this Veda but was the chief priest in the

ceremonies associated with it. Atharvana who is mentioned in the Rig Veda was

considered as the eldest son of Lord Brahma (God of creation). Atharvana Veda is

also known as Brahma Veda, because it is still used as a manual by Hindu priests

and Brahmins. Ayurveda is a part of Atharvana Veda.

 

A large number of Upanishads came from Atharvana Veda. Belief it or not, much of

Hindu exorcism of devils came from this Veda. At the same time, the oldest

records on Veda do not talk about this Veda. There is absolutely no reference

about this Veda in the Chandogya Upanishad or in the Brahmana tests or in the

Jatakas or in the Bhagavad Gita but this does not mean Atharvana Veda is not a

Veda. Any Rishi proktam is a Veda and Atharavana was a Maharishi so no dared to

play with Him.Also, the Rishi received this Veda from the upper realms in a cave

and composed the 6000 odd verses of Atharvana in one flow.

 

Each Veda is an emnation from a particular Rishi Mandala. Whatever

the earthling seers or yogis could hear in their meditative assays

they have put forth as four(maybe more).

 

If there is a term which meant an extension of Angeerasa as you have

alluded or if it just meant something symbolic and later was

misconstrued as a Rishi what about the practioners of the

Prathyangira Mantra? Why should they corroborate on that?

 

Is not then your thinking confined to just a perusal of the Vedic

texts without counting the experiential thing of many sadhakas? maybe a deep

one...

 

I will ask Ananthakrishna Shastrigal(an expert of Atharvana Veda) about this too

just to get it clarified.

 

Hope you are clarified now? What I said above as replies may ring a bell in

you...

 

Please take no offence it is just a discussion. I might be terribly

wrong also here. If so, please forgive me.

 

> RR

>