RE: [Srividya-Tantra] Guru Query Answered

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Sri Gurubhyon Namaha

Really an excellent reply to the queries, Guru dhyana is the first thing and the last thing a upasaka does everyday, as he is the light that helps you reach your destination, that is why an upasaka has to do his gurupaduka smaranam as soon as he wakes up on his bed and before he goes to sleep. Lalitha is gurumandala rupini, and hence there is no need to elaborate on the greatness of guru, every great man or purusha has shown the greatness of guru by resorting to and submitting to guru.

 

When one can rebuke some parts of the scripture and endorse the others it is like taking some medicines which one likes in taste and leaving off others which dont tastee well, and in the end do you wish to be cured because you have taken the medicines, to remove the jadhya of samsara Srividya is the medicine, the first step is to resort to a proper doctor who can see if you are worth the medication which is guru and he tells you some basic methods or pre clinical tests like bala and other mantras, once these medicines have effect on you then he would prescribe the full course of treatment, which would depend on the sincirety of the upasaka or the patient, and prarabdha relates to how well you respond to the treatment.

 

In the end have complete faith and totally surrender to your guru, if you dont have one pray to amba constantly using other slokas or prayers that nee no initiation seeking her help for a guru, when you are qualified, she would send a guru or she would herself guide you

 

Sri Kamakshi

 

 

Srividya-Tantra From: para_anulomaDate: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:44:34 +0000[srividya-Tantra] Re: Guru Query Answered

 

 

 

Dear Ernakulam Venugopalanji,

My first impulse was to delete your posting as I did not want to waste time rebutting your arguments but then many readers in the group might have similar such ideas in their mind, so yours was a classic example to prove the erronoeus thinking which is inherent in so many people in Kaliyuga.

Please read my replies(Tarkawadam) in green font, analyzing your arguments threadbare.What I might say might not be palatable to you but I have nevertheless boldly stated my arguments for the sake of members in the group.

"Sweet words are never sincere, Sincere words are never sweet"--Tao Te Ching.

Thankyou for providing me an opportunity to further clarify my stand and provide some information to other members.

Yours yogically,

Shreeram Balijepalli

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Srividya-Tantra , ernakulam venugopalan <bhakta36 wrote:>> > The attached message is written by a learned man. I belive in one of your postings about Mahaperiyaval of Kanchi where this person did sapthasati homam without Navakshari upadesham and periyaval asked how his daughter was etc... So if our sages and saints have decreed that initiation is required, are they wrong and this person is right? please explain

I do not know which story you are refering to here.Every argument must be provided by strong corroborative evidence, else should not be raised by throwing the gauntlet in my court by using words like "I believe in one of your postings about Mahaperiyawal", you seek to raise my emotional temperature for which I refuse to fall.

Now, coming to your point: Even hypotehtically, if Mahaperiyawal had asked a person to do a Saptashati Homam without Navakshari, it would have been appropriate as He is a Mahan who could look into past births and then decide where an aspirant stands.

So, your question of whether sages and saints are wrong and 'this person'(referring to the person whom Mahamperiyawal allowed as you say I presume) is in the nature of The logical fallacy called:Fallacy of Many Questions (Plurium Interrogationum), wherein several questions are improperly grouped in the form of one, and a direct categorical answer is demanded, e.g. If a prosecuting counsel asked the prisoner " What time was it when you met this man? " with the intention of eliciting the tacit admission that such a meeting had taken place. Another example is the classic line, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"Now, if I start to answer your question regarding the whether Sages or saints were wrong and "this person" right? then I would fall for your plurium Interrogationum!

" if one's parents did not do a proper "anna praasana" ritual (the ritual of first feeding of solid food to a baby) to one, should one consider oneself not entitled to eat any solid food? "Not doing a mantra because of no initiation is basically like that.

Your point here is weak on 2 Logical grounds

1. Begging the question

2. Weak analogy

1. Begging the question(Petitio Principii):Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has the following form.

 

 

Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).

Claim C (the conclusion) is true.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true." Some cases of question begging are fairly blatant, while others can be extremely subtle as in your case. One example I can give for this type of logical fallacy is: Bill: "God must exist." Jill: "How do you know." Bill: "Because the Bible says so." Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?" Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."

The basic premise here is that Bill believes God exists and thus needs no proof to adduce that and thus goes about in a circular way. In your case Annaprasanam is taken to be an example and you build your argument thereby but already there is a strong point in you that mantra initiation is just a ritual and not necessary. 2. Weak Analogy: Annaprasanam is a Vaideeka Samskara and not a Deeksha paddhathi as in the case of Mantra initiation and thus you cannot say for example: "Orange is a fruit, grape is a fruit and thus while orange is a fruit which is orange in colour, grape which is not oragne in colour cannot be a fruit"

This is because orange and grapes belong to different categories. The significance of the Annaprasana Samskara was this that children were weaned away from their mothers at proper time. They were not left at the caprice of their parents who often injure their children by overfeeding them without taking into consideration their digestive capacity. The feeding ceremony also warned the mother that at a certain time she should stop suckling the child. The ignorant mother, out of love for her child, goes on suckling it up to a year or more. But she little realizes that thereby she allows her own energy to be sapped away without doing real good to the child. A timely caution was given by the ceremony for the benefit of both the child and the mother.

On the day of the feeding ceremony the materials of sacrificial food were first of all cleansed and then cooked with appropriate Vedic verses. When food was prepared, one oblation was offered to Speech with words, "The gods have generated the goddess, Speech, manifold animals speak her forth. May she, the sweet-sounding, the highly praised one, come to us. Svaha!" The next oblation was offered to vigour, "May vigour come to us today." Having made the above sacrifices, the father offered further four oblations with the following phrases: "Through upbreathing may I enjoy food, Svaha! Through downbreathing may I enjoy food. Svaha! Through my eye, may I enjoy, visible things. Svaha! Through my ear, may I enjoy fame. Svaha!" Here the word "food" is used in a spiritual sense. The prayer was offered that all the senses of the child could be gratified so that he may live a happy and contented and highly spiritual life. But one thing was kept in mind. One in search of gratification should not violate the rules of health and morality, because it would spoil the dharma inhrenet of the man.In the end the father set apart food of all kinds and flavours for feeding the child and fed it silently or with the syllable "Hant (well)." The ceremony terminated with the feasting of Brahmanas.

Now, your argument is that "is annaprasanam necessary for a person to feed on solids? Cannot the person feed on solids without it?"

This again is a "Plurium interrogatium", I would however say everyone eats even an animal without any annaprasanam but what differentiates us from an animal is the samskaras as a humanbeing for which Vedas offer a refined way of evolvement.

> Getting initiation is good, especially if the one initiating has some level of sadhana in that mantra. But it is neither necessary nor sufficient for making progress in your own sadhana.

You are absolutely wrong here. Getting intiation is not something which is merely "good" but that which is essential in the path of Srividya. I do not want to comment on other paths but for Srividya, getting initiation from a proper Srividya adept IS A MUST.It is necessary for the progress of one's Srividya sadhana.

Most of the people who enter into the spiritual path without Gurus considering themselves to be someone great is merely an egoistical exercise which yields no lasting results, leve alone moksha.

> > If you see my homam document, I gave an analogy for this. A millionaire may open a bank account in his son's name with a starting balance of a million dollars. This is akin to a good guru initiating a sishya in a mantra. Sishya starts off by getting some of guru's attainment. But the son may waste those million dollars and end up with nothing. Similarly the sishya may fall and not achieve anything. Another person may not have anyone to give money and may start off with a zero bank balance but accumulate millions of dollars with own effort. This is akin to a person doing sadhana with a mantra without guru and attaining some level in the mantra.

The anaology here is again weak and wrong:

I can argue thus here. A millionaire might open a bank account in his son's name but never will a Srividya Upasaka who is of right mind give out mantras to everyone unless He knows the calibre of the person and where he stands and whether he would sustain the pressures of the Srividya sadhana.

Also, the Guru would monitor the progress of the shishya's sadhana(unlike the Millionaire leaving his son to lurch!)

(Also, your analogy is weak because no one can accumulate millions of dollars starting with a zero balance in bank, unless one has the support and help of people cruicial in their career.Please read the latest book by Malcolm Gladwell called "Outliers" and you will know that every rags to riches story has a benefactor behind.)

Mantras you might achieve some "level" without a Guru but Srividya upasana is a brahma upasana and an ends in ultimate Gnana and this requires not just mere chanting of mantras to achieve some ephemeral level but to understand experientially each and every beeja of that mantra.

> > Some people hold the view that mantras cannot be chanted without a proper "initiation" . This view is especially prevalent in some sections of society w.r.t. navarna mantra. However, I disagree with that view.

I think here you are confused with navrna mantra which refers to Chandika mantra and Srividya Nava-varana-puja mantras which are even advanced.> > If you know the mantra (!), just chant it.

I think this sounds like Nike shoes advert: Just do it!

What would an initiating guru have done for you?

He gives a new birth

Perhaps he would've given some of his attainment in the mantra to you. Well, you can do it yourself if you work hard.

If you are referring to Shaktipatham--tranferrence of spiritual energy.Yes, He does that and more.If He belongs to a proper Guru Sampradaya, then He gives a connection to His Guru-Parampara, His Guru-Mandala, who start protecting the aspirant.I guess, you are not aware of such details.

 

Or a guru would've taught you the right nyasas to be done before the mantra. Well, you can get the nyasas from books too.

There are many Nyasaas which are specific to

1. One's Guru Parampara

2. To oneself--which the Guru customizes asking Paradevatha Herself.

These would not be sadly available in a book in the market.

Moreover, what most people do today for nyasas is anyway just a ritual with no meaning. Nyasa literally means placement. You place various sounds in various body parts (like the tips of various fingers, heart, top of head, eyes etc). People merely act out some signals while saying the sounds. This "placement" is actually supposed to be an internal act and it creates an ideal environment for the repetition of mantra. Due to the external actions, what is supposed to occur internally does not occur in most. So the sounds end up not getting properly placed in the body. In other words, what I am trying to say is that most people do not know how to "place" various "sounds" in various body parts. They merely perform meaningless ritualistic actions. So, if you do not know nyasas, you are not really missing much compared to others who were initiated.

If you do not know how to perform Nyasaas properly, you miss the whole point! It is like going to an exam without a scribe-tool(pen or pencil) and trying to etch the paper with one's nails some answers and hope that the examiner sees it!

I would request you to first have proper knowledge of what Nyaasa is, than accusing all people(who are both innocent and ignorant of such advanced spiritual sciences) what they don't know.

Nyaasa is not a mere "placing" of some sound on one's fingertips.It is a process of 'divinizing'one's body by the use of mantras or beejas and touching the parts and visualizing creatively using energy fields in the presence(learnt in the presence) of a Srividya Guru.

Now, with a Guru and a Sampradaya you get a whole package of Srividya rituals starting from customized and individual mantras to nyasaas and even yanthras(not all get even sri chakra!, mind you).These are specifically crafted based on mny centuries of unbroken(avichinna parampara) lineage of Yogis and Munis who fit into the path.

One Upasaka rightly points out thus(he mentions this for mantras and nyasas learnt from various gurus.

(He would not even talk to you, if you go before him and talk about getting 'initiations' from books!)

"If one picks one thing from here and another thing from elsewhere, the synchrony is lost in the big picture and the resulting energetic effect is simply that of chaos.For example, a lineage that uses hayagrIva as the R^iShi for panchadashI, uses a certain form of parA bIja in bAlA, sR^iShTi krama in nyAsas, a certain form of shrIchakra, does away with tripura bhairavI, uses specific mudrAs for guruvandana etc. Such peculiarities are of great significance as they result in a bigger energetic portrait of the entire practice at a higher level and any element that does not fit into this picture brings about imbalance. Hence the importance of Guru-sampradAya."

There are many types of nyasa, with some being very complex and elaborate. The Mahashodha Nyasa, where a sadhaka or sadhvika places planets, constellations, sacred sites and other elements of Lalita's cosmology on his or her body. This demonstrates the identity of macrocosm and microcosm in the tantrik tradition.This is similar to some Taoist practicesI had learnt which also does something of a similar nature.(Mind you though Tantric texts say Mahachinacharam to which Taoism belong to does not need a Guru, I had a Guru.Such is the importance and gravity to be given for every spiritual subject)

Utmost concentration and focus is necessary and a light comment from you stating that "since external actions hinder" the process, it is better to leave it.(Coming back to my example: Since carrying a pen or pencil is such a pain when we have nails, we can better leave it at home!..see, the analogy must be appropriate so that it can be fitted at any place in the argument, this is called "Universality of analogical arguments")

Nyasaas form the substratum for your mantraic development in the body.It gives you the necessary power to withstand the mantra shakthi.It gives you tremendous power and a fulfilment to your mantra sadhana.

Why am I elaborately and threadbare typing these to you at this midnight? Because If I were a jew and I had been put to gas chamber a dozen times by a dozen hitlers, still I would not want even one among those dozen hitlers to suffer what I suffered when I read mantras from books and practiced Kundalini Tantra and had a Naadi channel go awry and suffer burning hell(even to this some scars remain mentally) for 3 years.Death would have been sweeter during those suffering days.I went into coma, underwent brain scan, became a tempest in my parents life at their old age because of my stupidity.Please heed my advice.

> > In my humble opinion, the most important qualification is to have devotion and sense of surrender to Her. If you have them, you can consider yourself "highly initiated".

My humble opinion on this would be:

If you have devotion to Devi. You would do what She supports and says in the scriptures.These rituals and processes are liked by Her.There is no doubt about it.You have to have a sense of self-discipline in this path.

Sense of surrender never comes at the outset itself to Devi. It must come necessarily through a Master, a Guru, a Srividya baddha Guru in this marga.

If I have hurt your feelings by my candidness, I apologize for the same. I would rather apologize after correcting some evil I see than condoning it with sweet words.

If you still have a light opinion about deeksha, then only Amba should save you.

I rest my speeding fingers now,

Shreeram Balijepalli

 

 

 

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