query

December 30, 2009

dear sreeram anna

thank u for replying.

some more queries:

1)

suppose a person knows that guru bhakti/devi/deva bhakti is very important thru

reading of scriptures ,but has not enough maturity/devotion from bottom of his

heart,then what shld he do/how shld his sadhana proceed?

2)

if a person approaches a wrong guru by fate but does not know due to his

ignorance,then will his sadhana,gurubhakti go in vain?will he become brhashta in

next janma?

January 2, 2010

See replies below your queries.

, "devraj.sandeep" <devraj.sandeep wrote:Dear Sreeraam anna,

Thank u for replying. Some more queries:

1) Suppose a person knows that guru bhakti/devi/deva bhakti is very important thru reading of scriptures ,but has not enough maturity/devotion from bottom of his heart,then what shld he do/how shld his sadhana proceed?

Something has to start somewhere and sometimes from someone.

It is not the question of scriptures or no scriptures,neither is it the question of maturity or IQ (as some wiseacre put it to me) nor is it even a question of devotion.

It is not scriptures which can inspire but sometimes stray narrations about some yOgis which might inspire the person to take action.Actually it is the yOgi who lives through the book(pothy) who starts acting,so it becomes a living book,not merely pages.Ex: Some really serious devotees of Shirdi Sai Baba have taken to the concept of Guru-Bhakthi so much by merely repeated reading of SaiSatCharita and other associated Sai Litreature.They for every turn of their life,every event in their life,every move in their life contact Sai Baba.

They know the importance of Guru-Bhakthi through a Book,then they Sai Baba dominates their psyche to a deep extent.

What is needed is intensity.

If the person is intense,then the person would be mature spiritually.Intense does not mean having a serious and a straightlaced faced.It means an aspirative fire inside one's heart,which is not extinguished even if a thousand spit on the person's face,even if life is playing games with him or her.

This is called sthAiryA or fortitude.When this nature comesby half the battle is won.

Then to search for something higher,one needs dhAiryA or courage.He or She need not strapon a horse and ride like a knight in search of an ephemeral truth.One must develop the internal dhAiryA to beat all forces from within which makes him/her stuck in some rut of a thinking.However, caution is required in cases like mantrOpAsanA.

One must develop sthAiryA and dhAiryA.

For anything, shradhA is needed.

Shraddha is much more than an aspirative fire.It is an inner-Athmic-fire which is the base for anything.

Shraddha is misunderstood by many as mere concentration."Shraddhaga chaduvu" we hear elders saying.But this is not the correct understanding of the word "ShraddhA" which is a Vedic word non-pareil.

Shraddha is needed for everything,for tapA,for gnAna,etc.

It is a coherent beam of energy flowing from the AthmA much akin to a LASER beam.

The coherence is brought about by

1. Intense aspiration to a spiritual goal or for something higher

2. Concentration and General focus

3. Patience

4. Absorbing like a sponge various elements needed to go higher.

These 4 make up shraddhA.When this quality is achieved in a person, he or she goes higher or to the next level.

srIvidhyA is not mere

1. Initiation and mumbling some mantrAs and expecting Goddess to come down from Her ChintAmani grihA

2. It is not a path to power,pelf or glory.

3. It is not politics or religious propoganda.

4. It is not mere rituals and direction solely towards de'vI,though the central theme and focus seems to be de'vI.

It is a mOksha-mArga wherein guru-tatwA is utmost,then come the rest.That is why they say that when someone comes to srividhyA,they come to the last lap of their journey.

karmA also predominates in all these.If the vAsanAs and karmAs are good,then one would definitely get a good guru to go to the mOksha-mArga.

So, maybe one can even start with vAsana-kshayA(erosion of past birth tendencies) and this involves devotional reading,practicing trikarana-shuddhi and other basic niyamAs and yamAs.This gives rise to purity

With purity, you get better clarity.

With clarity, you aspire for somethign intense

With aspiration,you slowly develop shraddhA.

With shraddhA, a proper guru comesby

With shraddhA again the guru-tatwA is inherent(Not all who get Guru understand the significance)

When guru-tatwA is learnt properly, then vAirAgyA sets in.

With vAirAgyA-bhAva, lot more sAdhanic effort is put,this time with no goals as such.

With this many things start happening...

So, the starting point has to be somewhere,start with books but don't depend on it as the be-all and end-all of spiritual life.Spirituality is in practicality.

Start the 25 nAmAs pUjA given in the files section of this group.This requires no initiation.

Then you may take up the name of ambA as many times per day as possible.

One doesn't wait for maturity to sprout forth.It never will.

One must continue to do what one feels best and then slowly you will be revealed what to do further.Dont worry, ambA has a way of pulling Her devotees to Herself.

(Im engaging in IndushAka nyAya here.Refer my old posting)

2) If a person approaches a wrong guru by fate but does not know due to his ignorance,then will his sadhana,gurubhakti go in vain?will he become brhashta in next janma?

Not necessarily.

Not all written in scriptures is to be taken as literal.

It has happened that people who were not enlightened have sometimes helped people to become enlightened. If the desire of the seeker is tremendous,if the past birth karmAs and vAsanAs are really powerful and spiritually positive, then even an unenlightened Master sometimes provides the necessary catalysm.

It is reported about one great mystic, Milarepa:

When he went to his Master in Tibet, he was so humble, so pure, so authentic, that other disciples became jealous of him. It was certain that he would be the successor. And of course there was politics, so they tried to kill him.

One day they said to him, "If you really believe in the Master, can you jump from the hill? If you really believe, if the trust is there, then nothing -- no harm is going to happen."

And, Milarepa jumped without even hesitating for a single moment. They rushed down because it was almost a three-thousand-foot deep valley. They went down to find his scattered bones, but he was sitting there in a lotus posture, very happy, tremendously happy.

Milarepa

He opened his eyes and said, "You are right; trust saves."

They thought it must be some coincidence, so when the house was on fire one day, they told him, "If you love your Master and you trust, you can go in." He rushed in to save the woman and the child who were left inside. He came, and the fire was too great and they were hoping that he would die, but he was not burned at all. And he became more and more radiant, because of the trust.

One day they were going somewhere, they were to cross a river, and they told him, "You need not go in the boat. You have such great trust; you can walk on the river" -- and he walked.

That was the first time the Master saw him. He was not aware that he had been told to jump into the valley and told to go into the burning house; he was not aware. But that time he was there on the bank and he saw him walking, and he said, "What are you doing? It is impossible!"

And Milarepa said, "Not impossible at all! I am doing it by your power, sir."

Now it seems the Master thought, "If my name and my power can do this to this ignorant, stupid man...what further wonders can it do to me?... I have never tried it myself"...so he tried. He drowned. Nothing has been heard about him after that!

Even an unenlightened Master, with deep trust, can revolutionize your life. And the reverse is also true: even an enlightened Master may not be of any help. It depends on you, it depends totally on you.

If the disciple approaches a wrong guru.Yet, he has all the qualities mentioned above then either he gets a good guru in the same janmA or the journey continues in the next birth.

BrashtathwA happens only when he absorbs the externalities of the false guru in sleaze,money,sex,etc.However,to be associated with a fake guru is always dangerous because of the capricious nature of human mind.Not all can be Milarepas.So a safer bet would be to wait it out and not rush to some Tom-Dick or Harry for instant enlightenment or spirituality.

One saint asks everyone who comes to pay obeisance to him their name and age. Once that is told he says, "Both the answers are wrong. The name and age belong to the body. You are the soul. It has neither a name nor age". Then he speaks on Spirituality and asks, "Are you doing spiritual practice ?" If someone happens to reply in the affirmative, he asks "What spiritual practice ?" If one replies, "The one recommended by my Guru", he says "You were not able to answer simple questions about your name and age. Then what has your Guru taught you ? Only a real Guru can reply to these questions. Come to me. I will tell you." One should tell such fake Gurus, `Actually your questions were meaningless ! You asked me my name and age only because of your awareness of the body (dehabuddhi), so I too replied with awareness of the body'.

What kind of Guru is he who is unable to make out at the first glance whether one has a Guru or if one's spiritual practice is going on appropriately or not ?

"Love all, Hurt/Hate None,Trust a few"--This should be one's thumb-rule for spirituality.

Then slowly the guru-tatwA would seep in.The intensity itself acts like a fire and burns any obstacle in one's path even if that be one's own fake-Guru!

An aside:The false guru test by Deepam Chatterjee ("Inner voice" section columnist)

States his or her own enlightenment:Real teachers tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection.(Mythreya's comment:Please do not confuse this with Shirdi Sai Baba saying that He is God in a divine ebriated state.One needs to look at this aspect subjectively and with personal experience not literally)

Is unable to take criticism: False teachers strongly dislike either personal criticism or criticism of their teachings;they do not take kindly to `ordinary unenlightened individuals' questioning them. They will even undertake multi-million dollar law suits to stop ex-members from spilling the beans.(Mythreya's comment:Do not confuse this with anger which some genuine yOgis or avadhuthAs might profess to teach erring disciples a lesson)

Acts omnipotent with no accountability:Some spiritual communities are run like concentration camps, with the guru and his chosen ones acting like Gestapo officers. These are the dangerous gurus who have often severely damaged their students.

Focuses on enlightenment itself rather than teaching the path leading to it:It is amazing how much false gurus have to say about enlightenment. They argue their points like how scholars in the Middle Ages argued how many angels could sit on the head of a pin. Anyone can talk about the end goal. But his job is guiding you to self-realization.

If a teacher preaches love and forgiveness, then he should act that way. If he teaches meditation, he should meditate. If he insists that his followers live austerely, so should live austerely.

Takes credit for a particular meditative or healing technique: Meditation and guided visualization do work. Anyone doing them will experience major benefits. The false guru will try to own or trademark particular methods and techniques.(Mythreya's comment:However, do not confuse this with some Hatha-yogA exercise patented by a person with his variation.This is just a baser version.)

Lives in total opulence: There is nothing wrong with living in luxury or being wealthy. But a genuine master is more likely to use such wealth to lessen the suffering in this world, not to buy another yacht, private jet or Rolls Royce.(Mythreya's comment:However,some avadhuthAs use it to create their own leelAs.However,lot of discernment is needed to know who a true avadhuthA is)

Encourages or permits adoration from his followers:Avoid any group that focuses on the "master" himself rather than the teachings or spiritual practices. This will be a hindrance to your self-realization.(Mythreya's comment: However do ot confuse this with Buddha's exhortation of "Master is more important than the message".This is because, Master's aura and spirituality will affect his disciples very much.If it is really high and positive,then the disciples do not even need a message.Just sitting before such a person and meditating(like dakshinAmurthy) would give them bliss)

Runs expensive workshops and courses:You are unlikely to reach enlightenment after a few weekends workshops. In our society of "must have now" we want to be able to purchase spiritual development with minimal fuss.Such things unfortunately don't happen.So many conduct workshops on srividhyA rituals and this is funny as srIvidhya needs the proper initiation of a guru and a sAmpradAya.

If the disciples are in distress and are not egoistic about their path, then the ascetic (sadhu) below the fifth stage according to the Path of Knowledge (Dnyanyoga) [in the Path of Knowledge stages 1-3 are of spiritual practice (sadhanabhumika) while 4-7 are of Self-realisation (phalabhumika)] should confront the fake Guru, expose his false nature, warn his disciples and then teaching him the righteous path should ask him to guide his disciples on the path of Righteousness.

However, if a disciple has attained the knowledge of Brahman he certainly will not pay heed to anyone. If the disciples are egoistic about the false path and are unrighteous, then considering that everyone's destiny is bad the saint should not do anything about it.'

Here the enjoinment of exposure is given mainly to a saint.Because only a saint can cognize whether a particular person is a charlatan or not.However, even a person with lot of spiritual awareness can also expose such frauds.

A devotee getting attracted to a fake guru is his own fault since he has not taken the steps which should qualify him to be disciple and is utterly unfit to recognize the Guru even if he meets him. Some shastras give long lists of the qualities a disciple should possess, but the Bhagawata goes straight to the heart of the matter and lays down the essential qualifications as two, detachment from the enjoyment of the senses (vairagya) and self-control.

So, guess this answer helps...

Mythreya Sreeraam Bhallyjayappalle