Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Question for all As a matter of discussion what are your views on the issues of mantras and secrecy. Mantras are what we invoke to awaken the soul within. On a political aspect if we continue with this attitude of secrecy and really the caste divide that has been perpetuated for centuries (where everything is secretly guarded by Brahmins alone) we are paving the way to Hindus becoming a minority like Parsis in a century!! We have to learn from the mistakes we have made. Please be warned this is not religious propaganda but the fact is that today there are fewer practising Hindus, the emphasis being on the word " practicing " . The number of Hindus and Brahmins in particular eating meat and even beef is on the rise. Hindus have never actively converted people to Hinduism and this is something which has been practised by both Christians and Moslems quite aggressively. A combination of all the above has resulted in the decrease of Hindus worldwide. Given all this, is it important to secretly guard the mantras and discourage practising hindus or encourage atleast the existing hindus??? Vimal, I am not disrespecting your concept or taking a defensive stance, but merely expressing a thought. It really is not the case that the mantra I did post is a guarded secret, its in all the books, there are tapes and cds with chants and its even on tv shows on Sony and Zee not to mention in various web sites. In my view if someone is praying to devi Maa and he wants to know what is a good mantra so what??? If you recall, the Parsee community numbers have dwindled to mere lakhs or even less because of this attitude of excommunication and exiling, preventing people who married out of the religion to enter the fire temple, preventing them from worship and in fact even wearing the sacred thread. Many parsee families are now facing the dilemna of decent death rites simply because their children have married out of the community and are not allowed to do it. How sad is that. This is an extreme situation but we should not pave the same and encourage existing practising Hindus. - vimal kumar Thursday, April 03, 2003 5:02 AM Re: JAI MAHAKALI dear priya the navarna mantra tht u hav forwarded to vijay is one which should be learnt from gurumukha i hop being a devotee of devi u respect the parampara of mantras narayani kripakadaksham vimal Catch all the cricket action. Download Score tracker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 it is absolutely necessary and a requisite that that mantras be kept sacred and secret as there are. it shoud be imparted to a qualified aspirant by a equally competenet guru. tradition is to be revered and respected and there is no room for any experimentation. the divine has it's own ways of safegaurding the dwindiling numbers of Hindu's if so one thinks. the idea of safe gaurding is to protect the sacred mantras which can turn out to be quite dangerous in wrong hands. a comparison can be made to the asura's who used the same for the wrong ends,and today we may not have those monstors in physical form/s,but everywhere u see we have the humans in demon form/s. so let the matter rest as is anantha --- Pria <pria7 wrote: > Question for all > > As a matter of discussion what are your views on the > issues of mantras and secrecy. > > Mantras are what we invoke to awaken the soul > within. > > On a political aspect if we continue with this > attitude of secrecy and really the caste divide that > has been perpetuated for centuries (where everything > is secretly guarded by Brahmins alone) we are paving > the way to Hindus becoming a minority like Parsis in > a century!! > > We have to learn from the mistakes we have made. > Please be warned this is not religious propaganda > but the fact is that today there are fewer > practising Hindus, the emphasis being on the word > " practicing " . The number of Hindus and Brahmins in > particular eating meat and even beef is on the rise. > Hindus have never actively converted people to > Hinduism and this is something which has been > practised by both Christians and Moslems quite > aggressively. > > A combination of all the above has resulted in the > decrease of Hindus worldwide. Given all this, is it > important to secretly guard the mantras and > discourage practising hindus or encourage atleast > the existing hindus??? > > Vimal, I am not disrespecting your concept or taking > a defensive stance, but merely expressing a thought. > It really is not the case that the mantra I did post > is a guarded secret, its in all the books, there are > tapes and cds with chants and its even on tv shows > on Sony and Zee not to mention in various web sites. > > In my view if someone is praying to devi Maa and he > wants to know what is a good mantra so what??? > > If you recall, the Parsee community numbers have > dwindled to mere lakhs or even less because of this > attitude of excommunication and exiling, preventing > people who married out of the religion to enter the > fire temple, preventing them from worship and in > fact even wearing the sacred thread. Many parsee > families are now facing the dilemna of decent death > rites simply because their children have married out > of the community and are not allowed to do it. How > sad is that. This is an extreme situation but we > should not pave the same and encourage existing > practising Hindus. > - > vimal kumar > > Thursday, April 03, 2003 5:02 AM > Re: JAI MAHAKALI > > > > > dear priya > the navarna mantra tht u hav forwarded to vijay is > one which should be learnt from gurumukha > i hop being a devotee of devi u respect the > parampara of mantras > narayani kripakadaksham > vimal > > > Catch all the cricket action. Download > Score tracker > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Om Shree Maatre Namah ! Namashkaar Shri anantha ji I can't understand your logic. When it comes to protecting mantras you indicate that people devotees can't impart them and they should keep them secret. But when it comes to dwindling number of Hindus it's the divine's job. You further add that it's quite dangerous if in wrong hands. Really ? It says in the Ramayan " ......... hoinye wahi jo Raam rakhi racha.... " Mother is always in control; never for a moment doubt that ! Thankyou Pria for bringing this topic up. Let's not shove it under the carpet. This topic really needs proper attention. What we really need is to quote what authority there is that says it should not be given to anyone etc etc . Be as it may I sincerely believe devotees should help one another. if these mantra were so powerful .... how come India has been ruled by foreign powers for hundreds of years. No they aren't as powerful as some wud like to make us believe. If you really want to experience the extreme power of mantras then try read and understand RikVed 1.164 Richo Akshare...... For caution against blind faith please refer to Guru Vashist in MahaRamayan (also called YogVashist)2/18/3 " yuktti yukttam... " ignorantly Jai Maa prem , ananth murthy <ananth108> wrote: > it is absolutely necessary and a requisite that that > mantras be kept sacred and secret as there are. > > it shoud be imparted to a qualified aspirant by a > equally competenet guru. > > tradition is to be revered and respected and there is > no room for any experimentation. > > the divine has it's own ways of safegaurding the > dwindiling numbers of Hindu's if so one thinks. > > the idea of safe gaurding is to protect the sacred > mantras which can turn out to be quite dangerous in > wrong hands. > > a comparison can be made to the asura's who used the > same for the wrong ends,and today we may not have > those monstors in physical form/s,but everywhere u see > we have the humans in demon form/s. > > so let the matter rest as is > > anantha > --- Pria <pria7@h...> wrote: > > Question for all > > > > As a matter of discussion what are your views on the > > issues of mantras and secrecy. > > > > Mantras are what we invoke to awaken the soul > > within. > > > > On a political aspect if we continue with this > > attitude of secrecy and really the caste divide that > > has been perpetuated for centuries (where everything > > is secretly guarded by Brahmins alone) we are paving > > the way to Hindus becoming a minority like Parsis in > > a century!! > > > > We have to learn from the mistakes we have made. > > Please be warned this is not religious propaganda > > but the fact is that today there are fewer > > practising Hindus, the emphasis being on the word > > " practicing " . The number of Hindus and Brahmins in > > particular eating meat and even beef is on the rise. > > Hindus have never actively converted people to > > Hinduism and this is something which has been > > practised by both Christians and Moslems quite > > aggressively. > > > > A combination of all the above has resulted in the > > decrease of Hindus worldwide. Given all this, is it > > important to secretly guard the mantras and > > discourage practising hindus or encourage atleast > > the existing hindus??? > > > > Vimal, I am not disrespecting your concept or taking > > a defensive stance, but merely expressing a thought. > > It really is not the case that the mantra I did post > > is a guarded secret, its in all the books, there are > > tapes and cds with chants and its even on tv shows > > on Sony and Zee not to mention in various web sites. > > > > In my view if someone is praying to devi Maa and he > > wants to know what is a good mantra so what??? > > > > If you recall, the Parsee community numbers have > > dwindled to mere lakhs or even less because of this > > attitude of excommunication and exiling, preventing > > people who married out of the religion to enter the > > fire temple, preventing them from worship and in > > fact even wearing the sacred thread. Many parsee > > families are now facing the dilemna of decent death > > rites simply because their children have married out > > of the community and are not allowed to do it. How > > sad is that. This is an extreme situation but we > > should not pave the same and encourage existing > > practising Hindus. > > - > > vimal kumar > > > > Thursday, April 03, 2003 5:02 AM > > Re: JAI MAHAKALI > > > > > > > > > > dear priya > > the navarna mantra tht u hav forwarded to vijay is > > one which should be learnt from gurumukha > > i hop being a devotee of devi u respect the > > parampara of mantras > > narayani kripakadaksham > > vimal > > > > > > Catch all the cricket action. Download > > Score tracker > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 it is absolutely necessary and a requisite that that mantras be kept sacred and secret as there are. Where is that said?? If they are secret why are there books and audios and videos. And if it was not meant to be why have the perpetuators of these been punished? it shoud be imparted to a qualified aspirant by a equally competenet guru. how do you define qualified aspirant. Knowledge was never denied to anyone even in the mythological hindu stories. What is the definition of a competent Guru and how rare they are to come by. A few are there in India but so many devout hindus for economic reasons have migrated to the west and continue to do so. Do they then have to go to a remote part of India in search of a competant Guru just to practice their religion and traditions. The whole basis falls apart if you think of Sukracharya and the Asur disciples he had. Accordingly would you say he was an incompetant Guru or the aspirant was unworthy? Even so the ony worth ones will be those who are pure at heart 100%. Find me a single individual like that today. Even the temple priest expects a dakshina to let you have darshan...!! tradition is to be revered and respected and there is no room for any experimentation. Tradition is to be revered, if that is the case we should not have TV or movies with obsenities. Women should be modestly dressed at all times, men should treat their women with respect, monogamy should prevail and high values upheld. None of the above happens in reality. Hindu religion is a way of life. In which part, sect or community of India are any traditions preserved to its fullest I would be interested to hear. the divine has it's own ways of safegaurding the dwindiling numbers of Hindu's if so one thinks. The divine has been unable to prevent the corruption of western culture into Indian way of life. Mini skirts, immoral television and MTV channels viewed by one and all on prime time TV, movie posters and obscenities could not be prevented by the divine. In Tirupati the number of liquor stores and bars are are a standing example to refute this claim of the ways of the divine!! the idea of safe gaurding is to protect the sacred mantras which can turn out to be quite dangerous in wrong hands. What is the definition of wrong hands. If you actually think there is a heaven where all the Gods sit doing good all day and there is a hell below with a devil holding onto bad people then you are sadly mistaken. Lord Indra committed atleast 7 deadly sins with the full knowledge of all the " secret mantras " , can it not be said that all along they were in the wrong hands! a comparison can be made to the asura's who used the same for the wrong ends,and today we may not have those monstors in physical form/s,but everywhere u see we have the humans in demon form/s. I disagree with you on this, about humans in demon form. In that case lets go back and think of Valmiki, he was a dacoit who killed people, robbing them, so he was an Asura in every way. Yet the book he wrote forms the very basis of our religion. So are we all not stupid to revere a book written by such an evil monster? The fact is, there is a deva and asura in each and every one of us. The extent to which one can supress the asura guna and awaken the deva within us is a fine balancing act. There is not a single perfect human on this earth. To drive this concept home lets consider: the all calm and composed Guruji (hypothetically speaking) who may be a terror at home to his wife and children with a fiery temper, or may be a insensitive husband and the wife may perceive him to be a " monster " (she will never tell any one that though!). Yet he has the power of all mantras. Knowledge is universal and to be dissipated freely. If anyone misuses it is their karma. When the asura guna in human gets supressed and the deva guna rises to the forefront one ceases to see humans in monster form and loves and accepts all of creation to live in universal peace. so let the matter rest as is anantha is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 dear sir, pl remember only by mantra we cannot achieve anything.but only belief will take u to sky high it is 100% sure. it is just like handwritingwhen you are writing a letter adding the two letters you will find your own style. like that in a family also if husband is 1 and wife is 0 or it viceversa, unless if they are not running a joint familiy it will not be 10 where is one ahere is 10. like that sivashakthi roopinyai onlu can give all sorts of thing read soundaryalahari first and lalitha shasranam stothram last one. and each mantra is is having lakchiya artha and vachaya artha. to under stand advidaphilosopy it self will take lots of time to understand. like that the persons who reaches certain level only can able to understand the mantra stil one more example a painter know the size of an elephant and a mouse how can it be a felloww having elephant head can sit and ride a ordinary mouse. if this is informed to all people , they will laugh at hindu culture and philosophy and if we explaind them in a proper way they will astonish. like that one small beeja mantra will do entire thing, for the people who do not understand for such a big banyan tree came out of a small seed that is called beeja. pl bear with spelling mistakes. that is why everything was kept goohyam till the same people realises and understand, if u feel because it has been kept like that we were slvae for some other country is entirely diffrent issue that vyavaharika leval and this paramarthika level. dont confuse yourself it is like bel;ieve in god, but lock the door, while u were out i personnally feel keeping these things in secret manner and geting the meanings from gurus are right way and that is how our hindu culture thriving. if u dont believe forget it. in thrisathi the sloka says if anyone doest not agree, you ignore him and it is his karma swathmanandha nadha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 dear sir , in continuation of my yesterday letter These 100 stanzas are supposed to be the foremost among Manthra literature. It is also believed that by Making suitable Yanthras and reciting particular stanzas and worshipping the yantras almost anything can be obtained in the world ..There are more thn 36 commentries to Soundarya Lahari written in Sanskrit itself.Of them the most famous is that written by Lakshmi Dhara alias Lalla,His commentary is used to understand the meaning of the different verses.Though there are large number of translations and commentaries of Soundraya Lahari available this is perhaps the first time an attempt is made by a mere novice to translate them in to English verse. The aim is to bring to the notice of the devotes who know English better than other languages , the majesty of the medium of worship called Soundarya Lahari.A transliteration in roman script is also given. May all those who read this be drenched forever by this �Wave of happiness� Part I - Ananda Lahari (The waves of happiness)* Shivah shakthya yukto yadi bhavati shaktah prabhavitum Na chedevam devo na khalu kusalah spanditumapi; Atas tvam aradhyam Hari-Hara-Virinchadibhir api Pranantum stotum vaa katham akrta-punyah prabhavati Lord Shiva, only becomes able. To do creation in this world. along with Shakthi Without her, Even an inch he cannot move, And so how can, one who does not do good deeds, Or one who does not sing your praise, Become adequate to worship you Oh , goddess mine, Who is worshipped by the trinity. dont u thinnk it is foolish to write like this, but if u go further then u will enjoy. hope by HER GRACE WITH MY GURU VIMARSAM MADE ME WRITE LOKE THIS SWATMANANDHA NADHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 Pria: I am in complete, 110% agreement with you that the secrecy regarding mantrams seems moot, especially since you can buy books, tapes, CDs, videos & whatnot, about them. If that's not your style, you can pay someone to teach them to you, whether or not you live in India (I don't). The days of living in the forest with some " learned guru " are over (for the vast majority of us). If neither extreme is to your taste, you can today take the middle path & have either on-line or correspondence courses. Take the Self Realization Fellowship set up by Paramahamsa Yogananda, based just outside Los Angeles. Or, if on-line & /or correspondence courses are not you, you can simply tune in to various " hindu spirituals " on TV, or simply order whole video series like " Osho " (available in 35 languages!). Hinduism is THE OLDEST, STILL practiced religion in the world, BECAUSE it has adapted to changing times & needs. Exclusivity IS the path to death & extinction. Your example regarding the Parsees is correct, especially since their grand master (or whatever he's called) decreed a few years ago that " converts need not apply " . In other words, if you're not a born Parsee, then tough. As if all the Parsees were pure Iranians! I do not agree with you, however, that Hinduism is on the decline. Yes, Christians & Moslems are dominant in terms of numbers because of their evangelism (peacefully or otherwise, usually the latter). As the Indian diaspora continues, you'd be surprised at just where you'll find us today: Africa, the Philippines, Europe... we're everywhere! I once discovered a small Kali shrine outside Montana (how out of the way can you be!?) And the number of people who are " converting " to our faith, despite the fact that we don't have either preachers or missionaries is amazing! On a recent trip to Hawaii, I even found a Shaiva temple built entirely by self proclaimed converts. Can you imagine how strange it feels to enter a hindu temple & find yourself the only non- white there? Yes, even the pujaris were white! I was even told that they had a " chapter " in Alaska! (Madonna's 'conversion' I doubt will last, though did you hear her " Shantih Ashtangi " ?). At the risk of sounding prideful, I am amazed ( & pleased) that a non- evangelical faith such as ours seems to have a power over others not born to our traditions. I think your belief that our numbers are on the decline, may have something to do with the very diaspora I earlier mentioned. As more & more Indians are born & raised abroad, attitudes (especially those regarding caste) are changing (which is a good thing), adapting to whatever culture those children (myself included) find themselves in. I currently live in the Philippines, & I can assure you that those Indians born & raised here, though they can't speak a word of Hindi (or read devanagari, for that matter), feel a profound connection to their religion. Even local Filipino Catholics & Muslims (yes, Muslims!) evince an interest in our faith. Hinduism Pria, is too vast & deep a philosophy, too encompassing, dynamic & vibrant, to diminish. As we who live outside India can attest, its light is hardly dimming. love, light, peace & joy Shahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Hi, One of sholkas of Rig veda " let noble thoughts come to us from all quarters " implies keeping an open mind and free exchange of knowledge and ideas.Keeping a closed mind and ruling out experimenting will not take us anywhere other going thru life like , what is called in tamil as a Chekku maadu, doing the same mistakes , follwing the same intrepretations.Think of public availability of mantras as divine will. The whole point of all mantras are to elavate a persons spiritual level, so why cant we think of it as doing good for some one and making it public.Like nuclear energy let people make choice on how to use it.Ramanuja publicly gave out the knowledge of gayatri mantra to non bramins...did it lead to destruction and disaster? regds - Pria <pria7 Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:34 PM Re: On Mantras and secrecy > > > > > it is absolutely necessary and a requisite that that > mantras be kept sacred and secret as there are. > > Where is that said?? If they are secret why are there books and audios and videos. And if it was not meant to be why have the perpetuators of these been punished? > > > > it shoud be imparted to a qualified aspirant by a > equally competenet guru. > > how do you define qualified aspirant. Knowledge was never denied to anyone even in the mythological hindu stories. > What is the definition of a competent Guru and how rare they are to come by. A few are there in India but so many devout hindus for economic reasons have migrated to the west and continue to do so. Do they then have to go to a remote part of India in search of a competant Guru just to practice their religion and traditions. > > The whole basis falls apart if you think of Sukracharya and the Asur disciples he had. Accordingly would you say he was an incompetant Guru or the aspirant was unworthy? Even so the ony worth ones will be those who are pure at heart 100%. Find me a single individual like that today. Even the temple priest expects a dakshina to let you have darshan...!! > > > tradition is to be revered and respected and there is > no room for any experimentation. > > Tradition is to be revered, if that is the case we should not have TV or movies with obsenities. Women should be modestly dressed at all times, men should treat their women with respect, monogamy should prevail and high values upheld. > None of the above happens in reality. Hindu religion is a way of life. In which part, sect or community of India are any traditions preserved to its fullest I would be interested to hear. > > > the divine has it's own ways of safegaurding the > dwindiling numbers of Hindu's if so one thinks. > > The divine has been unable to prevent the corruption of western culture into Indian way of life. Mini skirts, immoral television and MTV channels viewed by one and all on prime time TV, movie posters and obscenities could not be prevented by the divine. In Tirupati the number of liquor stores and bars are are a standing example to refute this claim of the ways of the divine!! > > the idea of safe gaurding is to protect the sacred > mantras which can turn out to be quite dangerous in > wrong hands. > > What is the definition of wrong hands. If you actually think there is a heaven where all the Gods sit doing good all day and there is a hell below with a devil holding onto bad people then you are sadly mistaken. > > Lord Indra committed atleast 7 deadly sins with the full knowledge of all the " secret mantras " , can it not be said that all along they were in the wrong hands! > > a comparison can be made to the asura's who used the > same for the wrong ends,and today we may not have > those monstors in physical form/s,but everywhere u see > we have the humans in demon form/s. > > I disagree with you on this, about humans in demon form. In that case lets go back and think of Valmiki, he was a dacoit who killed people, robbing them, so he was an Asura in every way. Yet the book he wrote forms the very basis of our religion. So are we all not stupid to revere a book written by such an evil monster? > The fact is, there is a deva and asura in each and every one of us. The extent to which one can supress the asura guna and awaken the deva within us is a fine balancing act. There is not a single perfect human on this earth. > > To drive this concept home lets consider: the all calm and composed Guruji (hypothetically speaking) who may be a terror at home to his wife and children with a fiery temper, or may be a insensitive husband and the wife may perceive him to be a " monster " (she will never tell any one that though!). Yet he has the power of all mantras. > Knowledge is universal and to be dissipated freely. If anyone misuses it is their karma. When the asura guna in human gets supressed and the deva guna rises to the forefront one ceases to see humans in monster form and loves and accepts all of creation to live in universal peace. > > > so let the matter rest as is > > anantha > is subject to the > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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