correction re: GuruDev, GuruDevi, GuruMata, Jai Mata Ki (a question re: Term

[Guest guest]

Cathie --

 

I am also greatly devoted to the Goddess, but your attitude of

exclusivity ( " I will only bow to Devi " ) reminds me of an old Hindu legend.

 

I don't remember the name of the ancient devotee who was so devoted to

Vishnu that he would actively snub images of Shiva. But over the

years he would only praise Vishnu, and wrote songs and prayers about

how he disliked Shiva. Only One Way, only one Deity in my heart, was

his eternal motto.

 

Then one morning, as he went to the temple to offer prayers to Vishnu,

he found (to his great dismay!) that the temple murthi had

transformed! On the left side, it remained Vishnu -- golden

ornaments, sumptuous silks, softly curling locks of hair. But the

right side of the murthi now had snakes for ornaments, a tigerskin

loincloth, and matted dreadlocks piled up upon his head! SHIVA! That

horrible, dread-inspiring Shiva was Vishnu's right side. (This image

is called " Hari-Hara " -- He who Attracts (Vishnu), and He who Scatters

(Shiva).)

 

The devotee nearly went crazy trying to decide how he could

circumambulate only the left side of the statue, but not the right.

Because, of course, the God had revealed that ALL the gods (and

goddesses) contain each other.

 

I am tempted to suggest that you purchase an image of Ardhanarishvara

for your altar. The Lord Who is Half Lady is a common enough murthi,

and it will remind you that the Goddess is everywhere -- even in the God.

 

(A personal story... The singing group, " Jai Ma Music, " performed at

my local Integral Yoga Institute some years ago. They sang a

beautiful bhajan, with simple lyrics: " Hari Om, Hari Om, Hari Om, Rama

Nam. " Meaning " Om to Hari, the Attracter -- Rama's name saves. "

 

And I went up to Babaji Bob Kindler afterwards, and said, " I am a

Shakta. Can I change the gender of this bhajan? Instead of Hari Om,

I would sing " Kali Om. " And " Shyamaa Nam " would mean " the Dark

Mother's name saves. " Babaji smiled, he said, " You are indeed a

devoted Goddess worshipper. But when you sing this tune, always

include the lyric to Rama as well as the new one to Kali. Because on

some level, Lord Rama is Kali, and Kali Devi is Rama. And it was HIS

bhajan first. "

 

Enjoy your trip to India!

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

, " goddessrebirth "

<goddessrebirth wrote:

>

>

> i'm sorry but i was re-reading my message and realize i said something

> wrong.

<snip>

 

>

>

> Cathie wrote:

>

>

> I noticed a lot of people are saying " Jai GuruDev " and a friend

> in India explained to me that " Jai GuruDev " means " Victory to the Guru

> who is like God to us. " Immediately i thought to myself, being devoted

> to Goddess, then I will say " Jai GuruDevi " which will mean " Victory to

> the Guru who is like Goddess to us "

<snip>

[Guest guest]

Hi Len,

 

Thanks for your reply. I include masculine deities in my rituals

and prayers -- as well as feminine. I guess I expressed myself poorly

when I said I bow only to Devi/Goddess. What I mean is, I won't

internalize a patriarchal dynamic. Often Goddess is marginalized within

the context of a male God. If as the front page of the

groups says is true, and for we Shaktas, Devi IS Brahman the ultimate

incomprehensible (and I have felt that She is for some time now), then

the masculine is defined in terms of the Feminine. It's a switch from

prevailing dynamics. In fact I think in reality, one might find that

the Brahman is more like the light that goes through an overhead

projector, and that one can put any transparency on the projector, and

the light will illuminate it. If one puts Devi on the projector, Devi

is illuminated, but what if one put both, or many all on the projector,

all overlapping: that would be more like reality I think.

 

When I said I bow to only Devi, I think I expressed myself poorly

in that moment. what I mean is, I strive to avoid internalizing

patriarchal systems/dynamics in which Goddess is marginalized or defined

in terms of an over-arching male God, such as when Brahman is commonly

referred to as He and Goddess is only seen as a more minor fraction of

His Almighty He-ness. I understand the concept that masculine deities

and persons and beings are also expressions and embodiments of

Goddess/Devi.

 

What I meant is, if it is grammatically correct to say Jai

GuruDevi, why does one say Jai GuruMata instead? Why is it not ok to

say Jai GuruDevi,if it is grammatically correct. My friend told me

please don't say Jai GuruDevi, because Devi is not like a guru, but our

mothers are like a guru cuz they are like a teacher so we say Jai

GuruMata. Does this mean only Mothers are like teachers and all other

women are un-worthy? Why not only Fathers can be like a teacher and

Guru?

 

Further, is Jai GuruDev a gender neutral term? As my first

friend suggested? Or is t as the second friend suggested, a term only

applied to male Gurus?

 

Re: My trip to India: I am very excited and full of

anticipation. I have lived all my life in America in the context of

patriarchal Christianity in which there is a monolithic male

representation of deity and the exclusion of the feminine divine, and

I've found ways to deal with it peacefully, without offending others or

my own principles and I'm sure I can manage in this context as well. I

feel sure of it. I have nothing against Jai GuruDev and have used the

greeting already several times in the appropriate context, perhaps

because at some point,the words mean very little to me and the feeling

is what counts, and I know this guru IS the embodiment of Goddess/Devi,

and so he IS a GuruDevi to Me. I don't regret at all my original

impulse to say Jai GuruDevi, as it was out of pure love, and inspiration

in the moment. My desire was to understand the rules of grammar and

the cultural significance of those terms.

 

Thanks,

 

Jai GuruDevi,

 

Cathie

 

 

 

In , " Len Rosenberg " <kalipadma108

wrote:

>