Refutation to Mr. Haridev. S. V

[Guest guest]

This is my refutation to Mr. Haridev. I have made my comments in

brackets. There is also another reader who has said that the work

i've chosen to dissect is more of a hagiography and there is no such

thing as a 'real' biography. Yes it is true. And the fact is this

self same 'hagiography' with the title of biography were sold and

promoted by Swami Amritapuri with Ammachi's blessings. Amrita is one

of ammachi's chiefest disciple. Not to forget it is released by the

priting arm of her organization.

 

Below are Haridev's response and my refutation (in brackets).

 

, " Haridev.S.V "

<haridevcusat wrote:

>

> Hail Mother Goddess

>

> All the things are mere mundane doubts of a skeptic.

> Similar to your thoughts, many think of the deeds of jesus, krishna,

> rama etc

 

(unfortunately the moderator has yet to release the balance of the

works- in two parts as I have submitted. He has his own reservations,

I suppose, which by the way has been proven by Mr. Haridev - kindly

read on. I have not met jesus, krsna nor rama. Material surrounding

them have disperancies also, it is true. But just because of this we

can't continue doing the same mistakes. Nor must we stop scrutiny on

someone just because others in the past have gotten away with it.

Hinduism is one of the most liberal religion in the world. It is

where we can discuss matters, even contradictory statements without

lounging onto each others throat. This is the spirit of enquiry which

must be upkept)

>

> they also post-mortem each words spoken by jesus/rama/krishna and

> each deeds of them and each reactions on various circujstances and

> declare that the particular person is bogus.

>

> But a devotee of jesus/rama/krishna would justify the

> deeds/words/reactions.

>

> similar is biography: Bible/bhagavatam/ramayan all are subject to

> skepticim from doubters like u.those who dont doubt is the devotee.

> logic wont apply there. if one ask a vaishnava why krishna kills or

> why rama cries when lost sita or ask cristian why jesus cried in

> cross...

 

(another reason why we would like the moderator to release the whole

work. krsna's story and rama's stories are puranams. The meaning of

puranam is stories. Harry potter's movies has many fantasy events.

But there are also moral qualities conveyed like friendship,

sustainance, battle against evil etc. But if I were to kill for the

sake of Harry Potter it has taken matters too far. Stories are made

up by men and like any story they might have overlooked the

authencity of some plots involved. even if god himself comes down as

man and kills as he pleases we must question him. There are powerful

men on earth, these have ruled. But later on in our history, great

men have deemed to submit to the dictum that none is above the rule

of law. And this rule of law is best whence it follows conscience and

reason. We don't want a god of double standards who is

unquestionable. If I'm going to shout, " fuck you, god " , am I going to

rot and die instantly. Think and see. More than god, it is the

overzealous disciples of god who terrorize others for the sake of

god. And when you stop reasoning this is what you get...as per said

said above by Mr Hari - " ..those who don't doubt is the devotee " )

>

> similarly u ask us why amma did this did that and all

> all those deeds/words/reactions we consider as the leela of Her in

> this incarnation

> no other explanation wuld be necessary.

 

(Yeah rite. Mr. Hari conveniently forgets that man is heart and

reason. Both this are to be developed. When our doubts are unable to

be answered, many resort to this. It is said that god's way are

unfathomable, it is 'leela' and so on. Due to this only we are

wasting much resources in the world today. Just because someone felt

that the other have 'insulted' the god. Without realizing what is

god, fools thereafter fight in the name of god destroying others and

destroying their own selves also. If I were to tell you that I am

Narasimha come to destroy foolish people will you believe me? Can I

perforce this idea onto you just by telling it is my 'leela' and 'no

other explanation is necessary'. God like sun belongs to all. The sun

does not discriminate and shines on all. The nature which is Shakti

is also likewise which operates without discrimination. Has gravity

ceased to operate because someone is black or does knowledge fail to

work if executed by a particular person? As such also ammachi by

claiming to be Iraivan becomes the property of all and must stand

scrutiny)

>

> all the circumstances were created. She made Her parents behave rude

> and showed us how to hold firm bhakti in any hard circumstance.

> she says:if i could accomplish my devotion in that pathetic

> circumstances, who cannot? why cant u?

> yes

> she is showing the example. all should do upasana like her

> give up every material happiness to get krishna/devi/others

> and finally we would become that

> thou art that--tat twam asi

 

(if she has created rude parents and siblings then why is it

necessary to punish them for these. didn't you read that Sudhamani

aka ammachi admits to punishing the brother who treated her and her

devotees rudely. In fact Subhagan her brother taunts a staunch

devotee of Sudhamani. By your explanation it is Sudhamani's will to

make them behave likewise. Her reason (or yours) is to push us in the

path regardless of the adverse conditions we are in. Then why does it

becomes lawful to punish Subhagan for the deed. I am sad that these

kinds of reasoning has seeped into Sakthism also. For so long I have

read god claiming to have hardened the heart of men and thereby

punishing them - in different faiths. I have laughed at the futility

of these and looked at it as due to the lack of realization alone.

But now we have similar people (may I say clowns) in our path also.

Earlier on we should not question why Krsna kills, now it has become

that the reason is of god's own making. If I (as god) were to create

nasty robots knowingly that they will create much nuisance then I

only am to blame when these run riot)

 

>

> if amma was born and built up in luxury, how could she show the

world

> about real devotion?

 

(conveniently forgetting about the four great nayanmars. Who are

they? They are the young thirujnanasambandar, the old

thirunavkarasar, the king sundramoorthy and the pauper

manickavasagar. Thirujnansambandar though young strived for Iraivan

(god) alone. Thirunavkarasar though old strived the same.

Sundramoorthy did not get corrupted due to riches and did his duties

in the world, striving for Iraivan. Manickavasagar did not strive for

anything save Iraivan alone. These shows that god like sun shines

without discrimination and it is immaterial whether you are young or

old, poor or rich. It is the property of all and the monopoly of none.

Is devotion the monopoly of the poor alone? Can't people have bhakti

if they are rich? Or we need to cast rationality to the winds to

realize Iraivan (god)?)

>

> you know, all the words you condemn in that biograpy is read by

> devoteess with intense pleasure.when ammachi caused that rowdy to

die

 

it filled my eyes with tears of happiness because it reminds of Durga

> killing Mahisha.

(there you have it. the death of an innocent which is read with

happiness by the devotee. It is because of not understanding the

symbolization of Mahisa that all this have come to be. Mahisa the

buffalo head is the symbol of anava - the selfish ego. The selfish

ego works for the sake of itself alone at the expense of others. It

manipulates and exploits others for the sake of its gain. The selfish

ego cannot die save by grace of Athi Sakthi alone. This Athi Sakthi

is the Durga by which it has all the weapons of gods. This shows it

to be the primary thing - the first or formost. However so, the ego

usually dies hard. This is the sprouthing of Mahisa when the blood is

spilled. It is after this only Kali appears from the forhead of

Durga. This shows that only by merging into OM (kundalini) alone can

one overcome anava personified by the buffalo headed Mahisa. In truth

one who has a buffalo head can have the brain of a buffalo only and

as such only fit to graze. As such the symbolization of Mahisa is to

be understood. Kali as itself has many spiritual meanings, this

however is out of the scope of this post. However,what I want to

imply is the lack of reason and the absolute identification of

Sudhamani as this self same Athi Sakthi - Durga, which is Iraivan

alone. Man can realize the Iraivan, man cannot become the Iraivan,

this tenent has escaped many. This paves for the many guru abuses)

 

> and i hav read biograohy full and none can help crying out of

bhakti.

 

(...at the expense of reason, must I elaborate further?)

 

> when we read all the incidents of her winning the enemies of bhakti

> we get courage to do upasana.that is the aim of that book

>

> she teaches through her life.

> hEr life is her teaching

>

> you cant get pleasure from those even in crores of rebirths if

doubts

> contaminate u

>

[Guest guest]

Moderators :

 

Please post the balance of the works of Mata Amritanandamayi witout

Sashima's commentary and interpretations. Let us be the judge of

what is real and what is unreal, what is spiritual and what is not

spiritual etc. This makes quite an interesting reading.

 

Thank you

 

vjk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In , " sashimha " <sashimha wrote:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " vedika " <ved_jkhurana

wrote:

>

> Moderators :

>

> Please post the balance of the works of Mata Amritanandamayi

witout

> Sashima's commentary and interpretations. Let us be the judge of

> what is real and what is unreal, what is spiritual and what is not

> spiritual etc. This makes quite an interesting reading.

>

> Thank you

>

> vjk

 

 

What we all should do is to move on from here. There's the

Amritanandamayi official website where they have all her good works

being advertised for all to see and not to mention the numbers of

created in her name. I suggest others who would like to

follow up on her to go to these website and groups.

 

Thank you

[Guest guest]

> (unfortunately the moderator has yet to release the balance of the

> works- in two parts as I have submitted. He has his own reservations,

> I suppose, which by the way has been proven by Mr. Haridev - kindly

> read on. I have not met jesus, krsna nor rama. Material surrounding

> them have disperancies also, it is true. But just because of this we

> can't continue doing the same mistakes. Nor must we stop scrutiny on

> someone just because others in the past have gotten away with it.

> Hinduism is one of the most liberal religion in the world. It is

> where we can discuss matters, even contradictory statements without

> lounging onto each others throat. This is the spirit of enquiry which

> must be upkept)

 

Ok please state the mistake that we are continuing to do.

Please tell a person who in your eyes have gone without mistakes.

 

Ok if with that spirit of enquiry, if we look into ammachi's life, we

can see a Jeevan-Mukta(liberated). There is no contradiction in the

matter of her liberated nature.

 

 

 

 

 

> (another reason why we would like the moderator to release the whole

> work. krsna's story and rama's stories are puranams. The meaning of

> puranam is stories. Harry potter's movies has many fantasy events.

> But there are also moral qualities conveyed like friendship,

> sustainance, battle against evil etc. But if I were to kill for the

> sake of Harry Potter it has taken matters too far. Stories are made

> up by men and like any story they might have overlooked the

> authencity of some plots involved. even if god himself comes down as

> man and kills as he pleases we must question him. There are powerful

> men on earth, these have ruled. But later on in our history, great

> men have deemed to submit to the dictum that none is above the rule

> of law. And this rule of law is best whence it follows conscience and

> reason. We don't want a god of double standards who is

> unquestionable. If I'm going to shout, " fuck you, god " , am I going to

> rot and die instantly. Think and see. More than god, it is the

> overzealous disciples of god who terrorize others for the sake of

> god. And when you stop reasoning this is what you get...as per said

> said above by Mr Hari - " ..those who don't doubt is the devotee " )

 

So this person has created a whole work against Her. Such persons with

evil tendencies exist during the life of all the great souls. One can

check the life of any Divine person, someone will be there to judge

their actions bad.and if we look into the life of the person who is

judging them we find them to be a bad-tempered person , speaking

rubbish with friends, eating animal flesh(or human too if they get

it), and with perverted thoughts , rude nature to dependants and

subordinates, always thinking of wealth and material pleasures(no time

to think of the Divine), always seeking pleasure from women, not

giving help to the needy, not doing austerities, no japa, homa or

vratam, no religious practices and above all wicked.if the person

examine his thoughts from morn till he sleeps, he can judge why he

cant feel divinity in the saints.

To quote from Her " we see bad in others just because our minds are

bad. the good one cannot se bad in others "

Many persons are jealous about Her, most of them rich and socially

esteemed they would think why all these reverence to a low-caste

woman. if the same be given to one among the high-class society, he

would readily accept it.