Moderating Shakti Sadhana: A Critique

September 21, 2007

A long-time member and friend of Shakti Sadhana wrote me off-board a

few hours ago with a critique of my earlier " manifesto " of

misunderstanding and civility in this group. I replied thus, and --

with this member's permission, and the urging of several co-

moderators -- I am posting my reply here.

Perhaps our friend's criticisms or my replies -- whether you agree

with them or not -- will help further open discussion and

understanding within this group. As most of you know, we are not

experts and gurus here; we are fellow-travellers -- most of us

married, employed, some with kids; classic householders in other

words -- trying to be useful in some way by maintaining this forum

for many diverse people of the " Shakta persuation. "

We have often been criticized for our failings, shortcomings,

ignorance and whatnot -- at some times these critiques are accurate

and justified, at other times false and gratuitious, and at most

times somewhere in between. ;-) Here is the latest, with which you

may or may not disagree -- but it is honest and comes from the

heart, as do my replies:

*** with respect to your and Nora's posts of Ammachi and your most

recent dissertation posted. please don't take offense [...] but you

two contributed quite a lot in my opinion to the negative vibes on

the recent discussions. ***

There is no offense. Believe me, after six or seven years of

moderating at SS, I have grown used to accepting responsibility for

all kinds of events in the group, negative or positive.

It's the way of the world: If you act, someone will think it's good

and someone else will think it's bad. If I worried about it, I could

not do this. The only way to avoid criticism is to do and say

nothing at all -- and even then, no guarantees. ;-) So we act and

accept what comes flying at us. :-)

*** both of you came out with sort of back-handed criticisms or

slights then when someone questioned you about them you did an 180

turn with what seemed to me as an insincere, " no i think She is

great, a Divine Being " type rap. ***

Obviously I disagree, and I addressed the 180-degree business in

my " dissertation. " But it's a complicated world and all I can offer

is my own little point of view. I do value your opinion though, and

I am sorry that I failed to properly manage this situation in

your eyes.

*** i find that many of the articles posted by all the moderators

are many times, negative in general, Hindus slighted, Muslims

destoying temples, evil Christians converting poor Indians etc.***

I cannot answer for the other moderators, but if you look back

through my many news postings -- in particular those concerning

Muslims -- I try very hard to find positive stories of cooperation

and mutual support between Hindus and Muslims. I know msbauju does

as well.

This is a very serious point for me; I am personally not very

sympathetic to the RSS/ BJP/ Hindutva fundamentalist stuff (some

moderators even less so; others much more). And I stand by my

record; I can show you letters (recent and old) in which I am ripped

down as too pro-Muslim, too pro-Christian, not sufficiently

sympathetic to fundie Hindu viewpoints for a Hindu group. I take

these as a compliment. I am always seeking the balance, and --

though I know doubt often fail -- I will keep seeking it.

*** as moderators you have the responsibility or maybe a better word

is ability, to influence to some degree where the individuals who

read this board put their Energy and Consciousness. so in my opinion

the effect of these articles is to direct Consciousness towards the

negative, giving Energy or directing Energy to the negative. ***

Point taken. Thank you. All we can do is keep trying.

*** Now the interesting thing in all this to me is someone was

posting articles about Devotion to Sai Baba and that was deemed not

relevant to Shakti Sadhana. but to discuss Amma in the way that it

was or many of the articles you guys post, somehow is relevant to

Shakti Sadhana? just something to consider or not? ***

Yeah, that was an odd series of events. But again, all we can do is

try. The Sai guy was posting copyrighted material on a daily basis

as only the beginning of what was clearly going to be a long series.

So I asked the group. " Is this okay with you? " And the replies all

ran to " no, this is spam. "

Similarly, when the anti-Ammachi guy posted a four-part manifesto, I

approved one, rejected three, and asked the group, " Do you want more

of this stuff or not? " and the replies ran to " no, this is garbage. "

So there you have it, for better or worse: If I ask 2,400

people, " what do you want? " and after a few days only six or eight

have replied -- well, the six or eight who exercised the franchise

spoke for the 2,390+ who didn't. That's the problem with democracy,

but it's all we've got. If you've got suggestions on a better

approach, believe me, we are all ears.

Thanks for your comments :-)

DB

September 21, 2007

-----After many years at and other BBS systems I can tell you

that quality of a post is not based on content but rather on whether the

post was personal and delivered solely to one group or another. Thoughtless

copypasting is always spam even if it's from the Second Coming of Kalki.

What is not thoughtless and result of guilty trigger finger on the send

button is fair game for any group. the point? Original thought, or at least

some thought is appreciated by all groups. Archived posts can be sought at

websites for the interested. A pleasent way to draw attention is to

copypaste a paragraph and then draw people to the site, but that's about it.

Just by virtue of what spomeone believes they should be willing to be a

representative of it and not a mere newspaper deliverer.

The Sai guy was posting copyrighted material on a daily basis

> as only the beginning of what was clearly going to be a long series.

> So I asked the group. " Is this okay with you? " And the replies all

> ran to " no, this is spam. "

>

> Similarly, when the anti-Ammachi guy posted a four-part manifesto, I

> approved one, rejected three, and asked the group, " Do you want more

> of this stuff or not? " and the replies ran to " no, this is garbage. "

>

> So there you have it, for better or worse: If I ask 2,400

> people, " what do you want? " and after a few days only six or eight

> have replied -- well, the six or eight who exercised the franchise

> spoke for the 2,390+ who didn't. That's the problem with democracy,

> but it's all we've got. If you've got suggestions on a better

> approach, believe me, we are all ears.

>

> Thanks for your comments :-)

>

> DB

>

September 22, 2007

I have been a silent participant of Shakti Sadhana group for a while now and my

observation has been that the moderators on the whole seem fairly balanced and

polite, the only exception being NMadaswamy who comes across quite often as

being unnecessarily aggressive, arrogant and rude. It sometimes appears as if

she is trying to create discord rather than be of assistance to the people who

have genuine doubts or queries.

This may be partly due to the way she puts across her views [...].

The Group also does not seem to be very focused. The moderators and the members

could agree on a common agenda and all other unnecessary mails could be kept

out.

September 22, 2007

Thanks for your observations.

Regarding a common agenda....we as moderators " Do NOT " approve only

mails that are advertisements (buy sweets, donate money to one-legged

one armed 7 year old suffering from dyslexia etc), downright

insulting other religions etc.

In the past, a " controversial article " about any ascetic had invoked

healthy exchange of ideas about practices, which of course were the

result of tangential deviation from the critique.

The controversial exchanges of late were getting a bit out of hand,

with members taking the exchanges a bit closer on an emotional level.

Regarding Nora (NMadasamy), on a personal level, I have communicated

with her and she is polite, and whatever " normal " is defined as. Yes,

she is outspoken. In the cyberspace where one has to " judge " others

by just font, which is rather limited to a few lines - things do get

a bit tricky with interpersonal relationship.

I have seen a couple of posts how a newbie was treated for a query

about Sri Suktham....well, the person ended their post as " Do the

needful, " which is a typical Indian way of ending a request. But, it

is NOT polite in an international forum to say that. At least

a " PLEASE " would have helped it to sound more of a request than that

of a command.

Moreover, Sri Suktham can easily be searched on google to obtain

sanskrit text, audio mp3, transliterations in several languages and

more.

This forum is not a repository for all religious texts nor or the

members/moderators are on a mission to provide references as in spoon

feeding. If someone joins here and wants to go through existing files

section and mine data for their repository, we do not mind.

Yes, we are not focussed on any thing in particular, except for

shakthi sadhana in general. As DB mentioned in an earlier

clarification, moderators are only fellow travellers and will/may

point the way if someone asks for which direction to travel.

We also approve certain posts which seem to be stating what

experienced practioners already know. This is because, everyone goes

through a learning process and they use this group as a sounding

board. If someone replies, it is fine and dandy, or else it will just

disappear into the cyberspace.

Moderation on the group is purposedly " semi-passive " as no one knows

where or from whom a gem will find its way into this group and

enlightening someone who is in need.

There is a poll in the poll section which asked questions - long

before I joined about the " proposed " acceptable posts for this group.

Please visit it and may be it is time to re-poll.

Thanks again for your observations. Please do post often sharing and

teaching us.

regards

G

, nandikeshvar m

<nandikeshvar wrote:

>

> I have been a silent participant of Shakti Sadhana group for a

while now and my observation has been that the moderators on the

whole seem fairly balanced and polite, the only exception being

NMadaswamy who comes across quite often as being unnecessarily

aggressive, arrogant and rude. It sometimes appears as if she is

trying to create discord rather than be of assistance to the people

who have genuine doubts or queries.

> This may be partly due to the way she puts across her views [...].

>

> The Group also does not seem to be very focused. The moderators

and the members could agree on a common agenda and all other

unnecessary mails could be kept out.

>

September 22, 2007

, " ganpra " <ganpra wrote:

>

> Regarding Nora (NMadasamy), on a personal level, I have

communicated

> with her and she is polite, and whatever " normal " is defined as.

Yes,

> she is outspoken. In the cyberspace where one has to " judge " others

> by just font, which is rather limited to a few lines - things do

get

> a bit tricky with interpersonal relationship.

>

> I have seen a couple of posts how a newbie was treated for a query

> about Sri Suktham....well, the person ended their post as " Do the

> needful, " which is a typical Indian way of ending a request. But,

it

> is NOT polite in an international forum to say that. At least

> a " PLEASE " would have helped it to sound more of a request than

that

> of a command.

>

Though I have been a member of the group for a couple of years, I

post rarely. I did see the mail regarding Sri Suktam and felt the

request was replied to rudely. I did not raise the issue right away

since I saw the mail only a week after the fact and since nobody else

had brought up the issue, felt that I may be overreacting. Ganpra

you have raised some important points for everyone to remember. This

is an international forum and etiquette and expressions may be seen

slightly differently in various countries.

The request for Sri Suktam began with " Please " and if the moderator

approved it, then thre was no need for anyone to be rude about it.

If any of the members wanted to help the requester then so be it. It

could have been handled off the board politely also if for some

reason the message was not going to be approved.

> Moreover, Sri Suktham can easily be searched on google to obtain

> sanskrit text, audio mp3, transliterations in several languages and

> more.

>

Here you are making an assumption of person requesting Sri Suktam

regarding their net savviness etc. ( I am not saying that this person

cannot search & obtain it) I am just saying that one should not make

such a judgment and it was a simple request and if a member is

willing to help, then approve the post and let cyberspace take care

of the rest.

This post is not meant to be a critique of the moderators of this

group. It is a difficult job at best and voluntarily putting the

effort in so doing is very much underappreciated especially in a

group with this amount of activity.

Balaji

September 23, 2007

, nandikeshvar m

<nandikeshvar wrote:

>

> I have been a silent participant of Shakti Sadhana group for a

while now and my observation has been that the moderators on the

whole seem fairly balanced and polite, the only exception being

NMadaswamy who comes across quite often as being unnecessarily

aggressive, arrogant and rude. It sometimes appears as if she is

trying to create discord rather than be of assistance to the people

who have genuine doubts or queries.

> This may be partly due to the way she puts across her views [...].

Thank you for this observation. Yes! I am who i am and I do not try

to pretend to become a person I am not. Am I trying to create

discord? Maybe, yes and no! Sometimes I believe some people needs to

get shock therapy only then they will wake up. I dont know this is

how I see things. I remember sometime back when a young lady comes

and start asking funny question, some people not happy but what did

kochu said : {let me try to recall ] you see all this happen with a

reason. From this 'disturbances' she made me to mention about

lalitha rahasya etc. Isnt this good.

English is not my mother tongue. I have said many times, I am not as

eloquent as DB. He can express himselves very beautifully but not

me. I express myself through my action. Its very difficult to

express your actions.

In person I as I see myself, I am flexible, jovial, i try to

accomodate request as much as I can and within my means. [ this is

my alter ego speaking]. Dont believe me ask those who have met me in

person. Arjuna have stayed with me for a week, following me around

even to my god daughter's wedding. Not to mention Kochu himself,

then our other moderator, sunelectric and Mr. V. Qazi. They all have

seen me in person. Ask them personally what kind of a person I am. I

have nothing to hide. If you want to see me I am here. I am not a

hypocrate, pretending to be nice infront of you but in private

calling you names. I do not go around sending hate mails just

because you all say all these stuff to me. I am reading them all and

I thank you for your comment, but this is who I am. If you feel that

I am not fit to be a moderator of this group or in shakti sadhana,

then send a petition and get me removed. Its okay with me. Gosh! DO

that! Otherwise as long as I am here { DEVI's wishes], I shall speak

when I have the urge to and feel the need. Its either you accept me

as I am just as I have accept all of you as you are. I never make

any demands on any one of you. When I request for help about the

homepage, how many of you actually respond? The request is not for

me but for the others new bie who will benefit from the compilation

etc in the homepage. You all just know how to talk and comment and

that is all about it.! Those who express desire to help, remains

desire only, died prematuraly.

With regards to the Sri Suktam. Yes! i say No because that is my

spontaneous reaction. I was having reservation to answer, but those "

say No, keep on coming back to me as I was reciting Lalitha

Sahasranama in the morning. And I will no apologise for saying so.

But what stops others from giving the reference. Did I stop anybody?

Why dont any of you do something about it, or you all wait for one

another? Devi Bhakta send me an off line message laughing. I was

puzzle why he laugh. Am I not correct DB? Why didnt you tell them so?

> The Group also does not seem to be very focused. The moderators

and the members could agree on a common agenda and all other

unnecessary mails could be kept out.

>

I see a lot likes to give comment but no solution. You comment not

focus, then forgoodness sake take action. Do something about it. be

more active instead of remain silent. You just know how to take and

take but dont know how to return back. Somebody chatted me on the IM

saying our group is not focus. NO serious discussion taking place. I

said okay, why dont you start it then and others will join in. No he

didnt and went into silence.

Am I angry? No

Am I irritated? No

Im pissed off that is all. And now I go in silence mode and

concentrate on the group homepage.

September 24, 2007

Hi Nora:

Thanks for your message. Looks like, in a departure from the usual

tag-team approach to moderation we've used over the years, both of

us are leaving the ring at the same time.

*** I have said many times, I am not as eloquent as DB. He can

express himselves very beautifully but not me. ***

Thank you for the compliment, but even if it is true it means

nothing. You need not go back very far through the archives to find

definitive proof that " eloquence " will get you absolutely nowhere.

*** I express myself through my action. Its very difficult to

express your actions. ***

Action is all there is, at the end of the day. What you actually are

and what you actually do. Not what others see or compliment you

upon. Just what you do, between you and yourself. Attempts to

express action seem too often to degenerate into the usual " lingam

polishing " we joke about. All one can do is do. ;-)

*** If you want to see me I am here. I am not a hypocrite,

pretending to be nice infront of you but in private calling you

names. I do not go around sending hate mails just because you all

say all these stuff to me. I am reading them all and I thank you for

your comment, but this is who I am. ***

That is our greatest strength in this group, I think, and perhaps

our greatest weakness too, which is fine: None of us are

particularly mysterious or inapproachable people. We've all chatted

with other members on the phone, and met them in person. Over the

years, we've gotten each other thru births, deaths, marriages,

professional crises, spiritual crises, you name it. We know one

anothers' kids, parents, lives.

We do not pretend -- as I've said on many occasions -- to be gurus,

saints or even " experts " on this topic. We are, through this group,

facilitators -- no more, no less. Maybe we are not good. Maybe we

are bad. Maybe we are total f***-ups, as some have suggested --

sure, it's a distinct possibility. But our hearts are in the right

place.

*** If you feel that I am not fit to be a moderator of this group or

in shakti sadhana, then send a petition and get me removed. Its okay

with me. Gosh! DO that! Otherwise as long as I am here { DEVI's

wishes], I shall speak when I have the urge to and feel the need. ***

Well said. Ditto.

*** Its either you accept me as I am just as I have accept all of

you as you are. I never make any demands on any one of you. ***

Also true.

*** Devi Bhakta send me an off line message laughing. I was puzzle

why he laugh. Am I not correct DB? Why didnt you tell them so? ***

I did. See my reply to Max.

*** [member COMMENT:] " The Group also does not seem to be very

focused. The moderators and the members could agree on a common

agenda and all other unnecessary mails could be kept out. " <== I see

a lot likes to give comment but no solution. You comment [on] focus,

then for goodness' sake take action. Do something about it. Be more

active instead of remain silent. You just know how to take and take

but dont know how to return back. Somebody chatted me on the IM

saying our group is not focus. NO serious discussion taking place. I

said okay, why dont you start it then and others will join in. No he

didnt and went into silence. ***

That's the bottom line. The other side of it is when people want a

platform for their manifestos and pronouncements, and take offense

or resort to low blows when there is any debate. People also mistake

diplomacy and attempts at civility as a show of weakness or wooly-

mindedness. It is not. It is the way we keep a dialogue moving

forward.

*** Im pissed off that is all. And now I go in silence mode and

concentrate on the group homepage. ***

Yes, indeed. The people have chosen.

I spent a lot of time on SS matters last week for the first time in

a long time, and it was a zero-sum game. The same old hostile

newbies, the same old boring nuts on the back channels until I

blocked them for the twentieth ID at least. It felt like a waste --

like getting sucked way into a video game -- at the end of it all

you have nothing to show for it but lost hours.

So you've got to look at priorities. I have a family. I have a job.

I have a stack of pending freelance projects and a major manuscript

to finish for Guruji. So, other than occasional brief responses and

news posts, I too will spend my energy on more productive and useful

matters for now.

I am proud of you, Nora. We have accomplished a lot. We spent many

years building this place and now -- seven years on! -- it is

ancient by Web standards. It has huge content that has helped and

will continue to help many people. So let new people take it forward

for a while; you and I have, for now at least, fallen out of step

with what people want. It would be selfish to cling to all of this

out of egotism. And the doors remain open: We will always come back

when and as needed. We are in this for the long haul. ;-)

DB

October 3, 2007

did u ppl leave? really? i mean really? sori I am laite. Was not really around

for personal reasons.