Clarification on the Neo-Pagan and Wiccan posts... Not So Secret:: Plundering Eastern religions for profit

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I have addressed that it was some Neo-Pagans and Wiccans who were responsible

for some of the misinterpretations and exploitation of another culture. I used

the word 'some' because, I felt it would help people understand that I am not

saying that all of them are responsible for it; some tends to mean an undefined

number, so it only takes one to make something validly some. I have met quite

a few wonderful Neo-Pagans and Wiccans in the past, and they and others like

them are not who I am directing my comments toward.

 

To be intentionally unfair is definitely not what I wanted to do, at all. Even

though I singled out a several Neo-Pagans and Wiccans does not mean that I am

addressing the entire population. If I did not make it clear before, then I

apologize and wish to make it clear now. It is like how some or a several

Christians are responsible for being judgmental and harsh, but I would never say

that all of them are like this - the same goes for anyone else. And if someone

said that all of the Sanatana Dharma were a religious tolerant group, I would

probably argue that some are not, as well. But to be as fair as I can be, I

will cite some online sources that I was talking about, and explain why I

criticized some of the Neo-Pagans and Wiccans for exploiting the East. If I

remembered the names of the book authors, I would cite them, but I cannot, so I

will give examples of what I find misleading and/or exploitive.

 

 

http://community-2.webtv.net/Toomuwik/Morrigan/

 

 

While it is believed that all gods are one God, the representation of Morrigan

by her people is not exactly how I would see Hindus representing Kali. From my

limited understanding of the Celts, they were a war-like society and they had

almost nothing to do with karma, the rule of harming none, and so forth - but

this is beyond the point. The Morrigan, according to my limited understanding,

was a war goddess of strength, fertility, and strife. It is fine for people who

are Wiccan or Neo-Pagan to worship her, and I know some who do. My critique is

when the authors claim that their interpretation is exactly how the Celts viewed

her. I have seen this in some of the New Age books and I do not recall the name

of the authors who cited this. ..so I can only say that I seen it. While many

Neo-Pagans and Wiccans group together all of the 'Dark Goddesses' and make them

manifestations of 'the Dark Goddess,' I do not think it does much justice to say

that they are exactly the same but in different cultures; I mainly say this

because I do not think the Celts would have said the same thing about the

relation between Morrigan and Kali. So... while all gods are One in Hinduism,

it does no justice to call Kali a synodeity of the Morrigan in this context.

 

http://www.geocities.com/lavenderwater37/list.htm

 

I cannot say anything about all of the deities listed here, as my knowledge of

the other deities is the most limited, but I can give a critique on the

interpretation of Kali. Again, I never said their description of Kali here was

fully wrong, but in this site they make her solely the creative/destructive

goddess and the protectress of abused women; they refused to talk about any of

her role as the destruction of the ego, dissolution of time, etc. As we already

discussed, these are by all means not all that she is about. And again, it is

fine to worship Devi for protection, I just think that the description here is

very limiting and does little justice to what she may be seen as in...say, West

Bengal.

 

http://meta-religion.com/Spiritualism/Wicca/goddesses_and_gods.htm

 

It cites the same as above.

 

 

http://www.open-sesame.com/Kali.html

 

 

" ... sex magic, dream work, immediate action, the Great Rite, cremation rituals,

weather magic, frontal assault, and spells which relate to time itself. " The

sex magic part somewhat bothers me. Maybe I have much to learn about the

cultures that worship her for something like this, but I have never seen or

understood Kali to be related to sex, at least in this specific form of Devi.

 

 

And once more, I emphasize that I do not mean that all Wiccans and Neo-Pagans

believe Kali to be like this or suggest that their way is the only way or the

" original way " to worship a deity. And again, it is not to say that they cannot

worship a deity and ask for these things - even if they are of a culture that

traditionally did not worship the deity for these particular things - but I

think it is more of me wanting them to clarify this or to act more aware of it

being untraditional to those who worship her. While I may not be perfect in

this, either, I do try to view her as close to traditional as possible. There

are likely some Wiccans and Neo-Pagans who probably try to be closer to

tradition, as well.

 

 

Hopefully, this clears up what I been talking about. I once more apologize if I

came across as a complete narrow-minded bigot. I only wish to make amends at

this point, and hope I am capable of doing this. I wish not to spread any

negativity here - I would rather not post at all if all I will do is stir hard

feelings!

 

 

Sincerely,

Christina

 

 

 

---- prainbow61 <paulie-rainbow wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> I have wanted mostly for you to address the important issues that you raised

generally in a

> more specific manner. To become offended at the tone of a generality is to

overlook the

> possibility for communication on more specific issues, more easily addressed

by all sides

> and more likely to lead to understanding.

>

> To paint " neopagans " or " wiccans " with a broad brush and without citing any

specific

> source in a discouraging tone isn't really fair, but yet the issues that would

lead to that

> may be something we could discuss and come to an understanding. Perhaps even

> agreement.

>

> You and I share the belief that all religions were at one point " young " or

" new " and that

> does not detract from their intricacy or usefulness, nor from their beauty or

the devotion

> of their followers.

>

> I engage in the Shakti tradition because I recognize my Goddess in it. Since

She has

> existed from the beginning in all times and all places, She appears in

different cultures in

> different ways.

>

> I see Her in the Devi Mahatmaya, just as I see Her in the praise songs of

Enheduanna of

> ancient Sumer, I see Her in the images of the Many Breasted Artemis. I hear

her in the

> poems of Sappho addressed to Aphrodite and the devotion of the Irish to

Brigit, now a

> " saint " once a Goddess.

>

> What I have here in Shaktiism is a mature and living Goddess tradition,

something that I

> did not have the privilege of knowing in my upbringing. It is a deepening and

challenging

> part of my spiritual life.

>

> I just don't know how to sort myself out from the " Neopagans " that have so

disgusted you.

> And I'm not entirely sure that I should.

>

> Blessings,

>

> pr

>

> , <IlluminatedCelestial wrote:

> >

> > I hope I did not give people the idea that I was completely prejudiced

against all Neo-

> Pagans. I just criticized the several that were responsible for some of the

confusion and

> exploitation of the Eastern teachings.

> >

> > However, as all of these posts said, Neo-Paganism is evolving, and it is

also relatively

> new. There was a time when all of the religions were this new, and I do not

hold that

> against them at all. I know of some friends who are Neo-Pagans and they are

not the

> ones that I was talking about, and I am sure there exists many more like them.

> >

> > And you are right. Some of them are learning and becoming more familiar

with the

> cultures that have been exploited or misunderstood in the past. Again, I hope

I did not

> come across as saying that all of them were responsible for the issues I

noticed. I

> apologize if I did. I also apologize to all of the Neo-Pagans who might have

been

> offended by the way I presented myself.

> >

> >

> > Jai Ma!

> >

> >

> > Sincerely,

> > Christina

> > ---- deviloka <deviloka wrote:

> > >

> > > ---> , " prainbow61 " <paulie-

> > > > rainbow@> wrote: Do you need to take action to know Hinduism?

> > > Perform your own prayers? Go to temple? "

> > >

> > > I think what is most needed is love/bhakti as a basis for an open-

> > > minded attention that is willing to release old assumptions. Then the

> > > Guru, as an energy of Grace, can take the forms of books, temples,

> > > devotees, physical gurus, etc as appropriate for each person.

> > >

> > > " If there are ways that you personally think are authentic ways of

> > > understanding Hinduism, are you holding your understanding

> > > of " Neopaganism " or any other practice, to the same standard? "

> > >

> > > If I " hold my understanding " of other practices and traditions (These

> > > are tricky words here) to the same standard as I hold my

> > > understanding of " Hinduism " , Sanatana Dharma, (pretty broad category)

> > > I find that I am looking at everything through the glasses colored by

> > > my own practice, experience and studies. In other words I see the

> > > various streams of " Neo-Paganism " and everything else through Shakti-

> > > colored glasses. So for me, nothing else holds up at all! But I am

> > > being very careful here, to say for me it is that way. I am not

> > > imposing my way of seeing on another, but I will share it if there is

> > > an interst.

> > >

> > > " Neopaganism " It is evolving and adapting, and having been exposed

> > > to a living tradition of Goddess worship there is an excitement about

> > > the images and rituals available. "

> > >

> > > I agree, I find this to be true. The image and the worship, along

> > > with the myths and stories are very popular. When I am invited to

> > > speak, I tell a story of a deity and then relate that story to a

> > > process that takes place inside me, then we do a short chant followed

> > > by meditation. Many of my " pagan " friends have visited the local

> > > temple with me and afterwards on their own. I am thrilled at the

> > > grace in this interaction. The temple community is very welcoming to

> > > visitors and the priests are especially helpful, despite the language

> > > barrier. My friends have all told me that this has enriched their

> > > own practices. Most of the folks I meet in this community are sincere

> > > seekers and appreciative and respectful of the living tradition.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " Kshayavridhivinirmuktha " kalaalapa hreemkari

> > > Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:59 am (PST) wrote: I would like to know the most

> > > effective method for revering deities in temples to invoke

> > > spirituality in our mind. "

> > >

> > > LOVE/BHAKTI, open mind, open heart, Om Hreem

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>