Tantra: a few clarifications in terms of common practices.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I been reading the book " Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls " by June McDaniel. So

far I been enjoying the book and I do like the tone of the author - she seems

like she tries to approach the controversial topics in the book with a scholarly

approach and not leaning toward the radical Western bias or the Eastern defense

(for lack of better words) in her writing on West Bengali Shaktism.

 

However, some things she addressed concerned me about Tantra. While I know that

each school is going to be different, she mentioned something about someone

claiming that a female guru made Ramakrishna eat pieces of human flesh? It did

not sound right to me, and she said that there were implications of human

sacrifice in some of the texts she went over.

 

Please do not take this as me judging all Tantriks - on the contrary, I just

want some clarification and understanding on these sort of viewpoints of the

practices. And for the most part, the author has been fair about trying to

dispel the myth about 'Tantric sex' that 'popularized Tantra in the East' and

some of the New Age books have promoted.

 

I have thought of making an article in the future in hopes to dispel the common

misconceptions of Tantra being this completely devious and carnal practice.

However, I also need to make sure that I get my 'facts' about it straight...so

now I asking everyone their views on these practices, and perhaps even for some

accurate and inexpensive resources on Tantra. I so far am far behind on my

reading, but I am gradually catching up.

 

Thank you for your time and attention.

 

 

Jai Ma!

 

Sincerely,

Christina

[Guest guest]

You might consider writing to Dr. McDaniel if

you need clarification with regards to what she wrote.

 

http://www.cofc.edu/~rels/mcdaniel.htm

 

http://www.cofc.edu/~facfocus/FacultyArticles_spring06/mcdaniel.html

 

, <IlluminatedCelestial wrote:

>

> I been reading the book " Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls " by June

McDaniel. [...] she mentioned something about someone claiming that a

female guru made Ramakrishna eat pieces of human flesh? [....]

she said that there were implications of human sacrifice in some of the

texts she went over. [....]

[Guest guest]

Hi Christina:

 

You commented:

 

*** someone claiming that a female guru made Ramakrishna eat pieces

of human flesh? ... there were implications of human sacrifice ***

 

As msbauju said, you'd do best to contact the author about stuff like

this. You're not going to get far in a group for whom Shaktism is a

vital, living, relevant everyday practice and belief.

 

Having said that, I am not at all sure that lingering over fringey,

apocryphal claims such as these is at all helpful, even when one's

interest is primarily academic. In many cases, these stories are

intentionally floated as decoys by Tantrics themselves. Or they may

even be ... *gasp!* symbolic!

 

To take a parallel from Roman Catholicism, it may be theoretically

fascinating to linger on, say, the gruesome mechanics of

transubstantiation. But what does it teach you about the actual faith

or its practice? Little or nothing, I'd venture. And what light does

it throw on the reality of Christianity as practiced by 99% of its

adherents through history? None at all.

 

So what's the point of raising it here? It's like walking into a

Catholic Church during Holy Communion and asking loudly, " Hey, do you

guys really literally think the wafer turns into actual flesh and

blood as it slides down your gullet? " Tacky!

 

*** Please do not take this as me judging all Tantriks - on the

contrary, I just want some clarification and understanding on these

sort of viewpoints of the practices. ***

 

You are free to judge or not, my dear. But it may be best to learn a

bit about " Tantriks " in general before you begin digging into the

most sensationalist and prurient rumours about their practices.

 

As I wrote over at Wikipedia, " When the term 'Tantra' is used in

relation to authentic Hindu Shaktism, it most often refers to a class

of ritual manuals, and – more broadly – to an esoteric methodology of

Goddess-focused spiritual discipline (sadhana) involving mantra,

yantra, nyasa, mudra and certain elements of traditional kundalini

yoga, all practiced under the guidance of a qualified guru after due

initiation (diksha) and oral instruction to supplement various

written sources. "

 

No flesh-eating; not much sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll -- but there

you have it. *yawn*

 

*** And for the most part, the author has been fair about trying to

dispel the myth about 'Tantric sex' that 'popularized Tantra in the

East' and some of the New Age books have promoted. ***

 

Authentic Hindu Tantra is what it is. Western Neo-Tantra is what it

is. And, despite persistent claims to the contrary, never the twain

shall meet. Trying to parse supposed connections and misperceptions

between the two is like trying to reconcile the lyrics of Shakespeare

with those of the Spice Girls. You could, I suppose, but where's the

payoff? And again, what's the point?

 

*** I have thought of making an article in the future in hopes to

dispel the common misconceptions of Tantra being this completely

devious and carnal practice. ***

 

Take a number! *lol* But first read White's intro to " Tantra in

Practice " or Brooks' note on methodology in " The Secret of the Three

Cities " and you may end up saving yourself some time. ;-)

 

*** However, I also need to make sure that I get my 'facts' about it

straight ... ***

 

Well begun is half done. Back to the book stack, kiddo! :-)

 

*** so now I asking everyone their views on these practices, and

perhaps even for some accurate and inexpensive resources on Tantra.

***

 

Back in my poor-student days, this was called " Interlibrary Loan "

*lol*

 

*** Thank you for your time and attention. Jai Ma! ***

 

Back at ya!

 

aim mAtangyai namaH

[Guest guest]

> Having said that, I am not at all sure that lingering over fringey,

> apocryphal claims such as these is at all helpful, even when one's

> interest is primarily academic. In many cases, these stories are

> intentionally floated as decoys by Tantrics themselves. Or they may

> even be ... *gasp!* symbolic!

 

Okay, I can take that. Like I said before, I was not trying to place

judgment...

 

> So what's the point of raising it here? It's like walking into a

> Catholic Church during Holy Communion and asking loudly, " Hey, do you

> guys really literally think the wafer turns into actual flesh and

> blood as it slides down your gullet? " Tacky!

>

 

If my post really gave that kind of impression, then I apologize. And I

apologize to the Tantrikas that I might have offended by asking. And I would

not even think that anyone in this group would have came from any traditions

that would take such a thing literally... I was just asking...

 

 

> You are free to judge or not, my dear. But it may be best to learn a

> bit about " Tantriks " in general before you begin digging into the

> most sensationalist and prurient rumours about their practices.

 

Fair enough...

 

 

> No flesh-eating; not much sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll -- but there

> you have it. *yawn*

 

I read the Wikipedia article. If I knew it was done by you or someone here, I

would have not even started this topic.

 

 

> Authentic Hindu Tantra is what it is. Western Neo-Tantra is what it

> is. And, despite persistent claims to the contrary, never the twain

> shall meet. Trying to parse supposed connections and misperceptions

> between the two is like trying to reconcile the lyrics of Shakespeare

> with those of the Spice Girls. You could, I suppose, but where's the

> payoff? And again, what's the point?

 

I was just trying to state that the author seemed pretty fair so far. That was

why I was shocked to see what she said...

 

 

~Christina

[Guest guest]

Hi Christina:

 

My apologies to you and Rachel both.

 

I had a number of mood-damaging offline issues to sort through today,

and -- while the content of my posts does in general reflect my

beliefs and positions on your comments and questions -- my tone was

inexcusably snarky and unpleasant. It had nothing to do with either of

you personally.

 

Sorry

 

DB

 

 

 

, <IlluminatedCelestial wrote:

>

>

>

> > Having said that, I am not at all sure that lingering over fringey,

> > apocryphal claims such as these is at all helpful, even when one's

> > interest is primarily academic. In many cases, these stories are

> > intentionally floated as decoys by Tantrics themselves. Or they may

> > even be ... *gasp!* symbolic!

>

> Okay, I can take that. Like I said before, I was not trying to

place judgment...

>

> > So what's the point of raising it here? It's like walking into a

> > Catholic Church during Holy Communion and asking loudly, " Hey, do you

> > guys really literally think the wafer turns into actual flesh and

> > blood as it slides down your gullet? " Tacky!

> >

>

> If my post really gave that kind of impression, then I apologize.

And I apologize to the Tantrikas that I might have offended by asking.

And I would not even think that anyone in this group would have came

from any traditions that would take such a thing literally... I was

just asking...

>

>

> > You are free to judge or not, my dear. But it may be best to learn a

> > bit about " Tantriks " in general before you begin digging into the

> > most sensationalist and prurient rumours about their practices.

>

> Fair enough...

>

>

> > No flesh-eating; not much sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll -- but there

> > you have it. *yawn*

>

> I read the Wikipedia article. If I knew it was done by you or

someone here, I would have not even started this topic.

>

>

> > Authentic Hindu Tantra is what it is. Western Neo-Tantra is what it

> > is. And, despite persistent claims to the contrary, never the twain

> > shall meet. Trying to parse supposed connections and misperceptions

> > between the two is like trying to reconcile the lyrics of Shakespeare

> > with those of the Spice Girls. You could, I suppose, but where's the

> > payoff? And again, what's the point?

>

> I was just trying to state that the author seemed pretty fair so

far. That was why I was shocked to see what she said...

>

>

> ~Christina

>

[Guest guest]

God bless you, DB. You are a treasure.

 

devi_bhakta

 

My apologies to you and Rachel both.

I had a number of mood-damaging offline issues to sort through today,and --

while the content of my posts does in general reflect mybeliefs and positions on

your comments and questions -- my tone wasinexcusably snarky and unpleasant. It

had nothing to do with either of you personally.

Sorry

DB

[Guest guest]

of course there will be. if the poor soul goes to a shrink she will realise that

it is her childhood imagination of wanting to sacrifice her parents thats being

seen through these " implication " .. If necessary I shall pay the shrink's bills.

what is being referred to is the incident in sadhana where Bhairavi brahmani

cut a piece of flesh from a burning corpse on a pyre and placed it in

Ramakrishna's hand and asked him whether he can eat it.

It was just a training/test in being able to be detached.

 

msbauju <msbauju wrote:

You might consider writing to Dr. McDaniel if

you need clarification with regards to what she wrote.

 

http://www.cofc.edu/~rels/mcdaniel.htm

 

http://www.cofc.edu/~facfocus/FacultyArticles_spring06/mcdaniel.html

 

, <IlluminatedCelestial wrote:

>

> I been reading the book " Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls " by June

McDaniel. [...] she mentioned something about someone claiming that a

female guru made Ramakrishna eat pieces of human flesh? [....]

she said that there were implications of human sacrifice in some of the

texts she went over. [....]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your input.

 

As for the rest of the thread... I should be the one apologizing for coming

across as asking in a way that might have seemed accusing (which was not my

intent, but I can acknowledge making small communication errors; I hope I did

not come across as too proud to admit my own ignorance!). I thank Devi Bhakta

for taking the time to acknowledge the way he made his post, but the general

message - with tact or no tact - was needed in order to remind people (primarily

people like me) of understanding that authentic Tantra is not the

'popular/Westernized' Tantra...and that I should have possibly needed to

consider the idea that some of the things that shocked me were likely symbolical

and not intent to be literal, or were even taken out of context by me or even by

the writer (or both; again I offer apologies and anything to redeem for my

mistakes).

 

I did as suggested and asked the author of the book for clarifications. I am

also putting the recommended readings on my list of things to read once I finish

with the books that I have now (I should be able to afford them in a few months

and if not, as DB said, there is the library loans). I am aware that books are

not meant to be the main sources of learning this stuff, but at the moment and

with my lack of connections, they are my only way of learning some things other

than the Shakti Sadhana group - at least culturally and knowledge wise.

 

I will pray for guidance and protection from bad influences, no matter what good

or bad source that I pick up. I really do strive to learn things from the

perspective of an 'authentic Shakta', for lack of better words. There is much I

need to learn, obviously, and I hope that everyone can continue to be as patient

as they are with me to teach me these things. Compared to the many of you, I am

the lowly disciple who has much to learn.

 

Thank you again everyone (including and especially Devi Bhakta) for your

insight. I really appreciate you all for educating, enlightening, as well as

putting up with me.

 

 

Jai Ma!

 

Sincerely,

Christina

 

 

 

---- sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote:

> of course there will be. if the poor soul goes to a shrink she will realise

that it is her childhood imagination of wanting to sacrifice her parents thats

being seen through these " implication " .. If necessary I shall pay the shrink's

bills.

> what is being referred to is the incident in sadhana where Bhairavi brahmani

cut a piece of flesh from a burning corpse on a pyre and placed it in

Ramakrishna's hand and asked him whether he can eat it.

> It was just a training/test in being able to be detached.

>

> msbauju <msbauju wrote:

> You might consider writing to Dr. McDaniel if

> you need clarification with regards to what she wrote.

>

> http://www.cofc.edu/~rels/mcdaniel.htm

>

> http://www.cofc.edu/~facfocus/FacultyArticles_spring06/mcdaniel.html

>

> , <IlluminatedCelestial wrote:

> >

> > I been reading the book " Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls " by June

> McDaniel. [...] she mentioned something about someone claiming that a

> female guru made Ramakrishna eat pieces of human flesh? [....]

> she said that there were implications of human sacrifice in some of the

> texts she went over. [....]

 

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Christina:

Further I was not talking about you but about the author of the book.

 

sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote:

of course there will be. if the poor soul goes to a shrink she will

realise that it is her childhood imagination of wanting to sacrifice her parents

thats being seen through these " implication " .. If necessary I shall pay the

shrink's bills.

what is being referred to is the incident in sadhana where Bhairavi brahmani cut

a piece of flesh from a burning corpse on a pyre and placed it in Ramakrishna's

hand and asked him whether he can eat it.

It was just a training/test in being able to be detached.

 

msbauju <msbauju wrote:

You might consider writing to Dr. McDaniel if

you need clarification with regards to what she wrote.

 

http://www.cofc.edu/~rels/mcdaniel.htm

 

http://www.cofc.edu/~facfocus/FacultyArticles_spring06/mcdaniel.html

 

, <IlluminatedCelestial wrote:

>

> I been reading the book " Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls " by June

McDaniel. [...] she mentioned something about someone claiming that a

female guru made Ramakrishna eat pieces of human flesh? [....]

she said that there were implications of human sacrifice in some of the

texts she went over. [....]

 

 

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

 

 

[Guest guest]

what a group of wimps we are!! *smile " n'est ce pas DB?

 

RACHEL GARCIA <omshantii wrote: God bless you, DB. You are

a treasure.

 

devi_bhakta

 

My apologies to you and Rachel both.

I had a number of mood-damaging offline issues to sort through today,and --

while the content of my posts does in general reflect mybeliefs and positions on

your comments and questions -- my tone wasinexcusably snarky and unpleasant. It

had nothing to do with either of you personally.

Sorry

DB

 

 

 

 

 

 

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