A yantra question for purposes of fiction...

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I'm asking this in behalf of a friend of mine who is writing a fantasy/science

fiction novel about a very evil man controlling another person, making this

person do his will--both in active and passive ways. This person must be

controlled by him, but this person is also allowed some personal freedom and is

allowed to keep their own personality. The evil man is drawing a yantra on this

person's back to control him, so what my friend found was this:

 

http://www.sanatansociety.org/beeld/pix/yantras_gramma_yantra_yoga.jpg

 

Of these images, my friend prefers the bottom left one, and wants a bindu at the

middle to symbolise the evil man as the focus, as the controlling point. The

yantra my friend is going for at the moment is this one:

 

http://snowgrouse.aikamuna.org/Misc/yantra_base.jpg

 

And has this to say about it:

" Here's a quick sketch of the incomplete Yantra. The [evil man's] symbol

would need to go around the bindu. I've tried putting some of those

symbols [the symbols on the first image link] in there and none of them click

for me, so the [evil man's] part

of the yantra will need to be something specific to him (unless you

can find a good one to use). Alternately, his symbol could be

the bindu itself, but it feels a bit incomplete that way. "

 

So now I'm wondering if the character's name would do, around the bindu? Or

perhaps seed mantras around the bindu that invoke his power, expanding into all

directions from the bindu, all the way into space itself, as described by the

circle. Seed mantras that invoke Kala as the all-destroyer might be apt, I

think, but I'd need to know what those are. A risky question, I understand, but

as these will never be spoken aloud, they will only be used for a story of pure

fiction. Or, conversely, bija mantras of Vishnu as the great preserver, the

great driving force?

 

Please don't tell me I need to go to a guru to get this information and so on,

because I do know the significance and power of bija mantras. Again, I stress,

this is for the purposes of fiction only, and the doings of an evil man, so I am

most definitely NOT intending to insult anyone by asking these questions. I am

not an ignorant fool, and have great respect for Shakti, for Tantra, and the

intention of my questions or my friend's story is not to offend. I'd be happy

with any suggestions of images or mantras you people might be able to think of.

 

Om Shanti,

Snowgrouse(:>)

[Guest guest]

Why don't you consider using symbols from

Western Esotericism/Ceremonial Magic instead?

That will largely sidestep the cultural

(mis)appropriation issue, and

avoid the issue of unintended insult.

 

I also think CM symbolism potentially is

a better for for how your friend intends

to use the symbol --

e.g. making part of the symbol specific to

" bad guy " .

 

, SnowGrouse <snowgrouse

wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> I'm asking this in behalf of a friend of mine who is writing a

fantasy/science fiction novel about a very evil man controlling

another person, making this person do his will--both in active and

passive ways. This person must be controlled by him, but this person

is also allowed some personal freedom and is allowed to keep their

own personality. The evil man is drawing a yantra on this person's

back to control him, so what my friend found was this:

>

>

http://www.sanatansociety.org/beeld/pix/yantras_gramma_yantra_yoga.jpg

>

> Of these images, my friend prefers the bottom left one, and wants a

bindu at the middle to symbolise the evil man as the focus, as the

controlling point. The yantra my friend is going for at the moment is

this one:

>

> http://snowgrouse.aikamuna.org/Misc/yantra_base.jpg

>

> And has this to say about it:

> " Here's a quick sketch of the incomplete Yantra. The [evil man's]

symbol

> would need to go around the bindu. I've tried putting some of those

> symbols [the symbols on the first image link] in there and none of

them click for me, so the [evil man's] part

> of the yantra will need to be something specific to him (unless you

> can find a good one to use). Alternately, his symbol could be

> the bindu itself, but it feels a bit incomplete that way. "

>

> So now I'm wondering if the character's name would do, around the

bindu? Or perhaps seed mantras around the bindu that invoke his

power, expanding into all directions from the bindu, all the way into

space itself, as described by the circle. Seed mantras that invoke

Kala as the all-destroyer might be apt, I think, but I'd need to know

what those are. A risky question, I understand, but as these will

never be spoken aloud, they will only be used for a story of pure

fiction. Or, conversely, bija mantras of Vishnu as the great

preserver, the great driving force?

>

> Please don't tell me I need to go to a guru to get this information

and so on, because I do know the significance and power of bija

mantras. Again, I stress, this is for the purposes of fiction only,

and the doings of an evil man, so I am most definitely NOT intending

to insult anyone by asking these questions. I am not an ignorant

fool, and have great respect for Shakti, for Tantra, and the

intention of my questions or my friend's story is not to offend. I'd

be happy with any suggestions of images or mantras you people might

be able to think of.

>

> Om Shanti,

> Snowgrouse(:>)

>

[Guest guest]

, SnowGrouse <snowgrouse

wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> I'm asking this in behalf of a friend of mine who is writing a

fantasy/science fiction novel about a very evil man controlling

another person, making this person do his will--both in active and

passive ways. This person must be controlled by him, but this person

is also allowed some personal freedom and is allowed to keep their

own personality. The evil man is drawing a yantra on this person's

back to control him, so what my friend found was this:

>

>

http://www.sanatansociety.org/beeld/pix/yantras_gramma_yantra_yoga.jpg

>

> Of these images, my friend prefers the bottom left one, and wants a

bindu at the middle to symbolise the evil man as the focus, as the

controlling point. The yantra my friend is going for at the moment is

this one:

>

> http://snowgrouse.aikamuna.org/Misc/yantra_base.jpg

>

> And has this to say about it:

> " Here's a quick sketch of the incomplete Yantra. The [evil man's]

symbol

> would need to go around the bindu. I've tried putting some of those

> symbols [the symbols on the first image link] in there and none of

them click for me, so the [evil man's] part

> of the yantra will need to be something specific to him (unless you

> can find a good one to use). Alternately, his symbol could be

> the bindu itself, but it feels a bit incomplete that way. "

>

> So now I'm wondering if the character's name would do, around the

bindu? Or perhaps seed mantras around the bindu that invoke his

power, expanding into all directions from the bindu, all the way into

space itself, as described by the circle. Seed mantras that invoke

Kala as the all-destroyer might be apt, I think, but I'd need to know

what those are. A risky question, I understand, but as these will

never be spoken aloud, they will only be used for a story of pure

fiction. Or, conversely, bija mantras of Vishnu as the great

preserver, the great driving force?

 

 

 

 

They say the Movie Indiana Jones and the temple of the doom too is

purely fictional..... but what message does it send across to the

others... a distorted image of Kali Bhakta and Kali herself.

[Guest guest]

upasana is not something to be trifled with in fiction novels.

 

--- On Wed, 6/11/08, NMadasamy & lt;nora & gt; wrote:

 

NMadasamy & lt;nora & gt;

Re: A yantra question for purposes of fiction...

 

Wednesday, June 11, 2008, 8:21 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

, SnowGrouse & lt;snowgrouse@ ... & gt;

wrote:

& gt;

& gt; Namaste,

& gt;

& gt; I'm asking this in behalf of a friend of mine who is writing a

fantasy/science fiction novel about a very evil man controlling

another person, making this person do his will--both in active and

passive ways. This person must be controlled by him, but this person

is also allowed some personal freedom and is allowed to keep their

own personality. The evil man is drawing a yantra on this person's

back to control him, so what my friend found was this:

& gt;

& gt;

http://www.sanatans ociety.org/ beeld/pix/ yantras_gramma_ yantra_yoga. jpg

& gt;

& gt; Of these images, my friend prefers the bottom left one, and wants a

bindu at the middle to symbolise the evil man as the focus, as the

controlling point. The yantra my friend is going for at the moment is

this one:

& gt;

& gt; http://snowgrouse. aikamuna. org/Misc/ yantra_base. jpg

& gt;

& gt; And has this to say about it:

& gt; " Here's a quick sketch of the incomplete Yantra. The [evil man's]

symbol

& gt; would need to go around the bindu. I've tried putting some of those

& gt; symbols [the symbols on the first image link] in there and none of

them click for me, so the [evil man's] part

& gt; of the yantra will need to be something specific to him (unless you

& gt; can find a good one to use). Alternately, his symbol could be

& gt; the bindu itself, but it feels a bit incomplete that way. "

& gt;

& gt; So now I'm wondering if the character's name would do, around the

bindu? Or perhaps seed mantras around the bindu that invoke his

power, expanding into all directions from the bindu, all the way into

space itself, as described by the circle. Seed mantras that invoke

Kala as the all-destroyer might be apt, I think, but I'd need to know

what those are. A risky question, I understand, but as these will

never be spoken aloud, they will only be used for a story of pure

fiction. Or, conversely, bija mantras of Vishnu as the great

preserver, the great driving force?

 

They say the Movie Indiana Jones and the temple of the doom too is

purely fictional... .. but what message does it send across to the

others... a distorted image of Kali Bhakta and Kali herself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Look, I know these are sensitive matters and all that, but if everyone keeps

replying " it's not something to be trifled with " and " omg, ignorant Westerners

are misrepresenting Hinduism/Tantra " , etc, it's not exactly going to be

fruitful. I'm asking because the person writing the novel wants to get the facts

*straight*, not misrepresent things, it'll just make things worse. Sneering does

not help--it's like saying you shouldn't tell a mystery writer about the effects

of poison because this *obviously* means they're going to go out and murder

someone. It's like saying that a horror movie that presents an evil man using

Judeo-Christian mythology to summon up demons somehow gives a bad image of

Christianity, and that all Christians are devil-worshippers. See what I mean?

It's not a question for using yantras because they're somehow " cool " --it is a

serious story where the baddie misuses magic and ritual from all sorts of

religions (Christianity and various Japanese myths so far) to control people,

and it's *meant* to be terrifying. It's exactly the sort of stuff gurus often

warn about--sadhakas who are only after siddhis and use them to gain power over

people instead of concentrating on the goal of moksha. It *is* stuff with

seriously bad consequences. Researching and writing about immoral people doesn't

make the researcher or the writer immoral (or maybe I'm wrong--Agatha Christie

probably had a few hundred bodies buried in her back garden or something, and

Dennis Wheatley was under the influence of malignant demons. Stephen King? Let's

not even go there, what a perverted mass murderer).

 

So if anyone actually has information on particular shapes/symbols within

yantras that establish control, I'd be glad to gain more information about them,

in order for the thing to be accurate. This is about doing research and getting

the facts *right*, so it *won't* be exaggerated and sensationalist rubbish like

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (a film which I find offensive myself, the

whole Thuggee cult being an incredibly exaggerated colonialist legend based on

unverifiable sources, and having very little to do with actual Kali worship).

You don't have to give out great occult secrets, really, just any basic symbols

and shapes associated with restraint and control would be perfectly fine.

Accurate knowledge banishes ignorance.

 

Snowgrouse(:>)

[Guest guest]

The following book looks like it might be

the sort of Tantra book you'd be interested in;

perhaps it'll help with the research for your

story: http://www.bagchee.com/books.php?id=20685

Good luck.

 

, SnowGrouse <snowgrouse

wrote:

>

> Look, I know these are sensitive matters and all that, but if

everyone keeps replying " it's not something to be trifled with "

> [....]

> Snowgrouse(:>)

>

[Guest guest]

I myself have not been able to bring myself to see Temple Of Doom,

just because I knew Sanatana Dharma and Kali would be

misrepresented. This is partly because it strikes me in the heart,

but also because Sanatana Dharma has not had a very positive press in

the Western countries for years. It is easy for Christians to poo

pooh misrepresentations (or some of the dark truths) of the religion,

since it is a majority viewpoint. For minority religious groups it

stings a lot more and is not so easily refuted. I think this is

changing in the US, with more tolerance and understanding, and

someday, maybe the distortions will be easier to bear. But, for now

it still packs a sting.

 

On the other hand, this person sounds like he/she is trying to do the

homework on Tantra, not producing something like the Temple Of Doom,

which is a rehashing of old pulp fiction magazines. The results

remain to be seen. My personal opinion would be to not use yantras

or mantras that actually exist or to change them in some subtle

manner so that their effectiveness would be lessened. Magic, both

Eastern and Western has effects, if only psychological and it is best

in my opinion to proceed in that way.

 

Om Jai Kali Ma! Om Namah Shivaya!

 

> , SnowGrouse <snowgrouse@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Look, I know these are sensitive matters and all that, but if

> everyone keeps replying " it's not something to be trifled with "

> > [....]

> > Snowgrouse(:>)

> >

>