Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Namaste: Considering all the wattage flowing around, I had better be careful here. A couple of questions here. First, If the Kadgamala Stotram will blow your mind if you don't have a guru, why does Sri Karunamayi recommend this stotram for all her devotees. You can purchase the CD and the book. Is chanting along with a guru acceptable or not acceptable? The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we supposed to worship in that case? The next issue is that someone said that a Bakta cannot become enlightened. Woah. Just about every guru that I've read about or come in contact with claims that Bakti is a perfectly acceptable way to reach enlightenment. Jnana is more difficult, but also an acceptable path to enlightenment. If one is trying to get power for oneself or develop siddhis doesn't this just inflame the ego. Doesn't inflaming the ego just defeat the purpose of doing the high powered sadhana in the first place? Every time we bitterly put someone down, claim that we have some special power/ special place with god do we not just place more obstacles between us and god? Shanti Om, Shankari http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235552912 http://www.myspace.com/shankari_kali --- On Fri, 7/17/09, ganpra <ganpra wrote: ganpra <ganpra Re: Relative voltage Friday, July 17, 2009, 5:18 PM :-) Compare voltages or kilo tonnage of mantras vs stotras..... ..Hmmmm what you are seeking is a crash course in worship. Stotras, in general are devotional leaning. If I remember correctly, quite a few moons ago, I sent you a few links on stotras/slokas for children. As put, they are meant to impart devotion in young minds. Train to believe, practice. E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 I don't want to get too deep into this particular discussion, but will note that if you purchase a CD of the guru chanting, you are still learning it from the guru. This is much different from picking it up out of a book with no knowledge whatsoever of Sanskrit or tradition. The traditional way of learning is listening to the guru and repeating after, trying to mimic intonation and pronunciation exactly. There's a lot of worship one can offer without a guru. And besides that, there are gurus in the US, sometimes in the strangest of places. It's worth noting that this wandering and searching, discovery, making pilgrimage, etc., is part of the Tantric journey and always has been. Anyway, lively discussion! And one worth having. jai MAA Kamakhya -kulasundari Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir www.kamakhyamandir.org On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Shankari Kali <shankari_kaliwrote: > > > Namaste: > > Considering all the wattage flowing around, I had better be careful here. > > > A couple of questions here. First, If the Kadgamala Stotram will blow your > mind if you don't have a guru, why does Sri Karunamayi recommend this > stotram for all her devotees. You can purchase the CD and the book. Is > chanting along with a guru acceptable or not acceptable? > > The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be > able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we > supposed to worship in that case? > > The next issue is that someone said that a Bakta cannot become enlightened. > Woah. Just about every guru that I've read about or come in contact with > claims that Bakti is a perfectly acceptable way to reach enlightenment. > Jnana is more difficult, but also an acceptable path to enlightenment. > > If one is trying to get power for oneself or develop siddhis doesn't this > just inflame the ego. Doesn't inflaming the ego just defeat the purpose of > doing the high powered sadhana in the first place? Every time we bitterly > put someone down, claim that we have some special power/ special place with > god do we not just place more obstacles between us and god? > > Shanti Om, > Shankari > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235552912 > http://www.myspace.com/shankari_kali > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, ganpra <ganpra<ganpra%40rocketmail.com>> > wrote: > > ganpra <ganpra <ganpra%40rocketmail.com>> > Re: Relative voltage > <%40> > Friday, July 17, 2009, 5:18 PM > > > > > :-) > > Compare voltages or kilo tonnage of mantras vs stotras..... ..Hmmmm what > you are seeking is a crash course in worship. > > Stotras, in general are devotional leaning. If I remember correctly, quite > a few moons ago, I sent you a few links on stotras/slokas for children. As > put, they are meant to impart devotion in young minds. Train to believe, > practice. > > E > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Hi Shankari: Thanks for your questions -- I suspect they are more rhetorical than literal, but for the benefit of anyone in this group who may be in doubt, I'll add my two cents. *** If the Kadgamala Stotram will blow your mind if you don't have a guru, [...] is chanting along with a guru acceptable or not acceptable? *** As ganpra correctly noted, stotrams are devotional hymns not mantras. Now I cannot hope to hold a candle to his electrically illuminated analysis (rimshot!) of strotrams in general, so I'll address your query specifically: Anyone who wishes to chant the Khadgamala Stotram can do so without fear of harm. In fact, it'd be awfully hard to avoid it doing some good. ;-) You mention that Sri Karunamayi recommends it; so does Sri Amritananda Natha; so does Sri Bhasurananda Natha. I've never seen it forbidden. *** The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we supposed to worship in that case? *** Start where you are. Using a mantra that requires diksha when you do not have diksha is (usually) harmless enough, but also rather pointless. It could also be compared to using a chainsaw to cut wood when there's no gas or electricity powering it. You might eventually accomplish something, but when you're working manually, it's generally more much effective to use manual tools. And when you're working without diksha, use mantras that don't require diksha. *** The next issue is that someone said that a Bakta cannot become enlightened. *** That's the sort of wisdom that usually issues from the back end of a horse. Bhakti is an eminently valid path to enlightenment. *** If one is trying to get power for oneself or develop siddhis doesn't this just inflame the ego. *** Siddhis, properly gained, are mere byproducts of sadhana. Those who pursue them as ends unto themselves are sailing into some very dark waters. aim mAtangyai namaH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 First question is rhetoric I believe....has its own answer embedded in it. It also answers the second question. Not that I'm a devotee of Karunamayi, but when one says they are acting on the advice of a certain guru, may not be a diksha guru, but perhaps a siksha guru, they are THE guru - for present or forever, as SHE wishes. If someone says they are following a guru, it is better not to ask others of what they think of the Guru's statement. First, Guru's saying is the first and the last. Second, the person who was asked will differ either because of ignorance or simply because their Guru's views are different. Also, they are not bound by faith to " your " Guru. Perhaps it should be pointed out, for the second question that the enlightenment is for the soul, not for the body. Don't worry about a Guru, if there is none, in this life's time. It is a long journey. If someone told me that a baktha cannot attain enlightenment or one cannot see shivashakti by devotion, I will tell them to take a hike - in not so polite terms. Finally, there are clear cut rules only for one lifetime. Nobody knows the past life, except HER. The cautionary notes are out in the open. Know the symptoms, know your way. , Shankari Kali <shankari_kali wrote: > > Namaste: > > Considering all the wattage flowing around, I had better be careful here. > > A couple of questions here. First, If the Kadgamala Stotram will blow your mind if you don't have a guru, why does Sri Karunamayi recommend this stotram for all her devotees. You can purchase the CD and the book. Is chanting along with a guru acceptable or not acceptable? > > The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we supposed to worship in that case? > > The next issue is that someone said that a Bakta cannot become enlightened. Woah. Just about every guru that I've read about or come in contact with claims that Bakti is a perfectly acceptable way to reach enlightenment. Jnana is more difficult, but also an acceptable path to enlightenment. > > If one is trying to get power for oneself or develop siddhis doesn't this just inflame the ego. Doesn't inflaming the ego just defeat the purpose of doing the high powered sadhana in the first place? Every time we bitterly put someone down, claim that we have some special power/ special place with god do we not just place more obstacles between us and god? > > Shanti Om, > Shankari > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235552912 > http://www.myspace.com/shankari_kali > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 My dear Shankari: You have just given me an idea. I plan to reire soon. I was thinking i will become a cowboy with a dairy farm. But i have changed my mind; I will pretend to be a siddha gooroo and seek sponsorship to come to US on whatever visa. i will offer shaktipata (The best method is to seat the seeker in a dark room, sneak in and give a resounding kick to the solarplexus; when the deciple recovers, ask him/her whether he saw stars; and tell him that IS shaktipata. After all in the dark he/she will not be able to see me sneaking in). Shankari can be my accountant I will charge only $1000. Thank you --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Shankari Kali <shankari_kali wrote: Shankari Kali <shankari_kali Re: Re: Relative voltage Sunday, July 19, 2009, 5:35 AM Namaste: Considering all the wattage flowing around, I had better be careful here. A couple of questions here. First, If the Kadgamala Stotram will blow your mind if you don't have a guru, why does Sri Karunamayi recommend this stotram for all her devotees. You can purchase the CD and the book. Is chanting along with a guru acceptable or not acceptable? The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we supposed to worship in that case? The next issue is that someone said that a Bakta cannot become enlightened. Woah. Just about every guru that I've read about or come in contact with claims that Bakti is a perfectly acceptable way to reach enlightenment. Jnana is more difficult, but also an acceptable path to enlightenment. If one is trying to get power for oneself or develop siddhis doesn't this just inflame the ego. Doesn't inflaming the ego just defeat the purpose of doing the high powered sadhana in the first place? Every time we bitterly put someone down, claim that we have some special power/ special place with god do we not just place more obstacles between us and god? Shanti Om, Shankari http://www.facebook .com/profile. php?id=123555291 2 http://www.myspace. com/shankari_ kali --- On Fri, 7/17/09, ganpra <ganpra (AT) rocketmail (DOT) com> wrote: ganpra <ganpra (AT) rocketmail (DOT) com> Re: Relative voltage Friday, July 17, 2009, 5:18 PM :-) Compare voltages or kilo tonnage of mantras vs stotras..... ..Hmmmm what you are seeking is a crash course in worship. Stotras, in general are devotional leaning. If I remember correctly, quite a few moons ago, I sent you a few links on stotras/slokas for children. As put, they are meant to impart devotion in young minds. Train to believe, practice. E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Thank you for taking the time deal with my rather clueless apples-and-oranges comparison. I finally understand why our mantra-seeking friends seek the particular mantras they do, and why no other mantras or other practices will do (as they see it.) Nothing else has that voltage in that compact form. I really didn't know how that worked. And our friends are no doubt not thrilled by the prospect of maybe having to wait a few lifetimes for a guru, hence the fast-track approaches. Personally, I'm not inclined to dink around with things to see how they blow up in my face, but that's me. As far as I can tell, I may be in the minority here. And as far as warnings go (yours and others), I think Kulasundari Devi has it right: " It's rather like adolescence, and I say this having been through it myself. I think a lot of times we just have to find these things out through experience. It's like anything else in life. " , " ganpra " <ganpra wrote > > Then there are mantras. As I mentioned in my earlier post, if one chants mantras, God will arrive....soon. [....] Depending on which aspect (amsam) of God one is chanting, satvic or ugra, the kilotonnage varies enormously. >[....] > Now, coming to your query about KS and LS......give them a thought and tell me where they stand. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 jai gurudev dear shankari good question,u can surely listen to cd and do mantra,bcoz the pronounciation will be proper. frankly,i have done khadagmala of mother kaali,tripurasudnari, baglamukhi etc and foud the experience very good. i think maybe this is kaliyug so surely bhakti is the best for this yug. a bhakt-devotee will be knowledgable and also enlightened, bcoz the very pourpose of any mantra,tantra etc is to connect us with divinity,and make us surrender to it so we can get salvation. the devotee does surrender first and then all other things follow. tehre have been real stories with eye witness accounts of many illitrate devotees get miracles in their lives despite not doing any mantra but focussing on the divine. sice the evry pourpose of mantras etc is ultimate salvation moksha the devotee without doing mantras also gets salvation so we cant give any comparision at all about the various paths devotees or sadhakas take. bhakti means elimiating ego and surrender to the divine,and this itself is salvation. u r on the correct path to self realisation bcoz u r also seeking salvation and bhakti is the simplest path. om shakti gopal On 7/19/09, Shankari Kali <shankari_kali wrote: > > > > Namaste: > > Considering all the wattage flowing around, I had better be careful here. > > > A couple of questions here. First, If the Kadgamala Stotram will blow your > mind if you don't have a guru, why does Sri Karunamayi recommend this > stotram for all her devotees. You can purchase the CD and the book. Is > chanting along with a guru acceptable or not acceptable? > > The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be > able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we > supposed to worship in that case? > > The next issue is that someone said that a Bakta cannot become enlightened. > Woah. Just about every guru that I've read about or come in contact with > claims that Bakti is a perfectly acceptable way to reach enlightenment. > Jnana is more difficult, but also an acceptable path to enlightenment. > > If one is trying to get power for oneself or develop siddhis doesn't this > just inflame the ego. Doesn't inflaming the ego just defeat the purpose of > doing the high powered sadhana in the first place? Every time we bitterly > put someone down, claim that we have some special power/ special place with > god do we not just place more obstacles between us and god? > > Shanti Om, > Shankari > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235552912 > http://www.myspace.com/shankari_kali > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, ganpra <ganpra<ganpra%40rocketmail.com>> > wrote: > > ganpra <ganpra <ganpra%40rocketmail.com>> > Re: Relative voltage > <%40> > Friday, July 17, 2009, 5:18 PM > > > > :-) > > Compare voltages or kilo tonnage of mantras vs stotras..... ..Hmmmm what > you are seeking is a crash course in worship. > > Stotras, in general are devotional leaning. If I remember correctly, quite > a few moons ago, I sent you a few links on stotras/slokas for children. As > put, they are meant to impart devotion in young minds. Train to believe, > practice. > > E > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 jai gurudev dear kulasundari, i agree with yr points. jai maa kaamyoni kaamrup kamaksha om shakti gopal On 7/19/09, Kulasundari Devi <sundari wrote: > > > > I don't want to get too deep into this particular discussion, but will note > that if you purchase a CD of the guru chanting, you are still learning it > from the guru. This is much different from picking it up out of a book > with no knowledge whatsoever of Sanskrit or tradition. The traditional way > of learning is listening to the guru and repeating after, trying to mimic > intonation and pronunciation exactly. > There's a lot of worship one can offer without a guru. And besides that, > there are gurus in the US, sometimes in the strangest of places. It's worth > noting that this wandering and searching, discovery, making pilgrimage, > etc., is part of the Tantric journey and always has been. > > Anyway, lively discussion! And one worth having. > > jai MAA Kamakhya > -kulasundari > > Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir > www.kamakhyamandir.org > > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Shankari Kali <shankari_kali<shankari_kali%40> > >wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste: > > > > Considering all the wattage flowing around, I had better be careful here. > > > > > > A couple of questions here. First, If the Kadgamala Stotram will blow > your > > mind if you don't have a guru, why does Sri Karunamayi recommend this > > stotram for all her devotees. You can purchase the CD and the book. Is > > chanting along with a guru acceptable or not acceptable? > > > > The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be > > able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we > > supposed to worship in that case? > > > > The next issue is that someone said that a Bakta cannot become > enlightened. > > Woah. Just about every guru that I've read about or come in contact with > > claims that Bakti is a perfectly acceptable way to reach enlightenment. > > Jnana is more difficult, but also an acceptable path to enlightenment. > > > > If one is trying to get power for oneself or develop siddhis doesn't this > > just inflame the ego. Doesn't inflaming the ego just defeat the purpose > of > > doing the high powered sadhana in the first place? Every time we bitterly > > put someone down, claim that we have some special power/ special place > with > > god do we not just place more obstacles between us and god? > > > > Shanti Om, > > Shankari > > > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235552912 > > http://www.myspace.com/shankari_kali > > > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, ganpra <ganpra<ganpra%40rocketmail.com> > <ganpra%40rocketmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > ganpra <ganpra <ganpra%40rocketmail.com> <ganpra% > 40rocketmail.com>> > > Re: Relative voltage > > <%40><% > 40> > > Friday, July 17, 2009, 5:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > Compare voltages or kilo tonnage of mantras vs stotras..... ..Hmmmm what > > you are seeking is a crash course in worship. > > > > Stotras, in general are devotional leaning. If I remember correctly, > quite > > a few moons ago, I sent you a few links on stotras/slokas for children. > As > > put, they are meant to impart devotion in young minds. Train to believe, > > practice. > > > > E > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 jai gurudev shankarji....good one !!!!! pls count me as yr assisstant !!!!! i will help in spending the money well !!!!! om shakti gopal On 7/19/09, sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote: > > > > My dear Shankari: > > You have just given me an idea. I plan to reire soon. I was thinking i will > become a cowboy with a dairy farm. But i have changed my mind; I will > pretend to be a siddha gooroo and seek sponsorship to come to US on whatever > visa. i will offer shaktipata (The best method is to seat the seeker in a > dark room, sneak in and give a resounding kick to the solarplexus; when the > deciple recovers, ask him/her whether he saw stars; and tell him that IS > shaktipata. After all in the dark he/she will not be able to see me sneaking > in). Shankari can be my accountant I will charge only $1000. > Thank you > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Shankari Kali <shankari_kali<shankari_kali%40>> > wrote: > > Shankari Kali <shankari_kali <shankari_kali%40>> > Re: Re: Relative voltage > <%40> > Sunday, July 19, 2009, 5:35 AM > > > > Namaste: > > Considering all the wattage flowing around, I had better be careful here. > > > A couple of questions here. First, If the Kadgamala Stotram will blow your > mind if you don't have a guru, why does Sri Karunamayi recommend this > stotram for all her devotees. You can purchase the CD and the book. Is > chanting along with a guru acceptable or not acceptable? > > The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be > able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we > supposed to worship in that case? > > The next issue is that someone said that a Bakta cannot become enlightened. > Woah. Just about every guru that I've read about or come in contact with > claims that Bakti is a perfectly acceptable way to reach enlightenment. > Jnana is more difficult, but also an acceptable path to enlightenment. > > If one is trying to get power for oneself or develop siddhis doesn't this > just inflame the ego. Doesn't inflaming the ego just defeat the purpose of > doing the high powered sadhana in the first place? Every time we bitterly > put someone down, claim that we have some special power/ special place with > god do we not just place more obstacles between us and god? > > Shanti Om, > Shankari > > http://www.facebook .com/profile. php?id=123555291 2 > http://www.myspace. com/shankari_ kali > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, ganpra <ganpra (AT) rocketmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > ganpra <ganpra (AT) rocketmail (DOT) com> > Re: Relative voltage > > Friday, July 17, 2009, 5:18 PM > > > > :-) > > Compare voltages or kilo tonnage of mantras vs stotras..... ..Hmmmm what > you are seeking is a crash course in worship. > > Stotras, in general are devotional leaning. If I remember correctly, quite > a few moons ago, I sent you a few links on stotras/slokas for children. As > put, they are meant to impart devotion in young minds. Train to believe, > practice. > > E > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Namaste, Yes, there is a lot of high wattage flowing around. And yes, again, you hit the nail on the head when you explained your dilemna of how to find a Guru while living in the West far away from India. To that i would add, even while living in India. my humble view is that bhakti and shraddha is more important (remember Ekalaya?. Not every one is fortunate enough to come accross a living Guru in person. So what does one do?. I would say surrender to the unseen power. tell that omnipotent and omnipresent power that YOU are my Adiguru,Paramaguru and Sadguru, that even though i am a ignoramous and imbecile, i am totally surrendering myself at your feet and just like a child trying wholeheartedly to please it's mother and try to catch even just smile on her face,that i have chanted the mantra(sadhana)only to please you and if i have erred,i beg of you to kindly forgive me and guide me and whatever i have done to appease YOU,please kindly accept. In my humble opinion this is the only way out,the other alternative is to just shut-up - no aradhana,no japa, no bhakti, no sadhana. Isnt something better than nothing?. I feel the bhakta's entreaties are bound to be heard by the unseen power. And yes, it quite likely that this path is tougher and long winding and time consuming than if one had the benefit of guidance from a guru. Have i offended any body? please forgive. Ram On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:41:03 +0530 wrote >Namaste: > >The next question or problem is that many of us in the West will never be able to find a guru considering how distant we are from India. How are we supposed to worship in that case? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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