Guest guest Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 This is One view. We had been under " attack " as my friend puts it for almost 2000 years. Tantra has survived it as also has hinduism. jai gurudev dear friends, this may not be liked by many but truth is truth. hinduism is loosing out to xtian evengelists and islamic jihad due to many reasons,one of them being that the gurus or adepts etc and also brahmins [ am a brahmin by birth myself ] have kept the vodyas secret so much so that too much has been lost forever. something needs to be done to stop this ebb of hinduism, or else in next 50-100 yrs tantra and hinduism may cease to exist. always the people who yearn to learn abt tantra are abused not considered worthy etc,and turned down by people who know something and this is causing an even greater downfall. as against this in islam/xtianity is spreading faster. i worry the day is not far when sanskrit as a language and tantra may not exists anymore. we shud all co-operate and help revive it by starting to learn the languages of the ancients and also propogating the shastras. this may sound filmy,and crass,but this is kaliyug and we have to do what it takes to keep the shastras alive. bhairav chakra,bhairavi chakra etc whatever if anyone knows pls help,dont make sarcastic remarks. pls help to grow hindu shastras and tantra,pls. om shakti gopal On 7/28/09, Kulasundari Devi <sundari wrote: > > > > While this is all true (and I'm aware of the colloquialism regarding > " Kamakhya Mountains, " but was terribly inelegant in making the > correction... > it's significant here that it was not referred to by its proper name), > there > are many people who confuse accounts such as this with the Kamakhya > tradition itself. I've seen a lot of this kind of thing, and in fact this > particular essay has been pointed out to me before to be indicative of the > Kamakhya tradition (which it is not). I am not making commentary positive > or > negative on any particular practice or sadhana, as I feel we are all MAA's > children and if SHE accepts all sincere worship, and accepts all people as > HER own, then how can I do otherwise? > But I also feel that whenever these kinds of things are posted, it's > important to present a counterpoint for balance. This is routinely done for > other Devis and places and practices, so why not for Kamakhya? > > jai MAA > -kulasundari > > Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir > www.kamakhyamandir.org > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:44 AM, riktanandanath > <jitmajumder212 <jitmajumder212%40.co.in>>wrote: > > > > > > > <%40><% > 40>, > > Kulasundari Devi <sundari wrote: > > <<<Please be advised that although this claims to be an episode from the > > > > " Kamakhya Mountains, " (such a place does not exist, though Kamakhya is > > > nestled in Nilachal Hills), this is not Kamakhya tradition at all, and > > > should not be confused as such.>>> > > > > The introduction to the essay is part of the essay itself, and is not the > > information/ introduction/ view of the poster but that of the author > > himself. > > That apart, the Nilachal Hills is often referred to as the " Kamakhya > Hills " > > colloqually (among Bengalis), because of its famous landmark. > > The author only seems to put on record and share his own experiences > which > > he had gained in that particular place and among those adepts, and > himself > > does not seem aware of, or attempting to comment on, the tradition he > > describes and the rituals he narrates. He himself appears to be a layman > who > > does not claim to be tantra-literate or familiar with which tradition > comes > > from where. > > > > regards -- Jit. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Namaste: Hindus tend to look within and blame themselves for their own circumstances, which from a psychological standpoint is healthier than blaming others. However, in this case we have to simply accept that some religions are very aggressive. They are fundamentally stepping on other's toes and getting in other people's faces. The big three Middle Eastern religions are like this. Even peaceful Gandhi became angry when preachers came in and converted everyone and then plowed temples under. Indigenous religions are dying due to aggressive preachers and individuals who force conversion. It's not just Hindus. I saw this when I worked on a Native American Indian reservation. They were completely surrounded by very aggressive preachers and harassed constantly. I have seen some individuals harassed every weekend by the same preacher here in America. We are supposed to love all people and accept all religions and yet aggressive religions use this idea against us. I love ya, but I'm not buying your religion. It's easy for a wary Hindu to say this, but not an illiterate one. The worst enemy of Hinduism right now is illiteracy. Shanti Om! Shankari http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235552912 http://www.myspace.com/shankari_kali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I've heard of this statement many times.........just an excuse for people to exploit tantras and such. The same excuse the muslims and christians are use to propogade their belief system......they move from a tolerant to intolerant in view of the same arguement " their belief system is under attack " . All of us under attack......from people who are so much in fear and insecure. we are all under attack from irresponsible people who are politicing religion for their own benefits. , gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123 wrote: > > This is One view. We had been under " attack " as my friend puts it for almost 2000 years. Tantra has survived it as also has hinduism. > > > jai gurudev > > > dear friends, > > this may not be liked by many but truth is truth. > > hinduism is loosing out to xtian evengelists and islamic > jihad due to many reasons,one of them being that the gurus > or adepts etc and also brahmins [ am a brahmin by birth myself ] > have kept the vodyas secret so much so that too much has > been lost forever. > > something needs to be done to stop this ebb of hinduism, > or else in next 50-100 yrs tantra and hinduism may cease > to exist. > > always the people who yearn to learn abt tantra are abused > not considered worthy etc,and turned down by people who > know something and this is causing an even greater downfall. > > as against this in islam/xtianity is spreading faster. > > i worry the day is not far when sanskrit as a language > and tantra may not exists anymore. > > we shud all co-operate and help revive it by starting > to learn the languages of the ancients and also propogating > the shastras. > > this may sound filmy,and crass,but this is kaliyug and we have > to do what it takes to keep the shastras alive. > > bhairav chakra,bhairavi chakra etc whatever if anyone knows pls > help,dont make sarcastic remarks. > > pls help to grow hindu shastras and tantra,pls. > > > om shakti > > gopal > > > On 7/28/09, Kulasundari Devi <sundari wrote: > > > > > > > > While this is all true (and I'm aware of the colloquialism regarding > > " Kamakhya Mountains, " but was terribly inelegant in making the > > correction... > > it's significant here that it was not referred to by its proper name), > > there > > are many people who confuse accounts such as this with the Kamakhya > > tradition itself. I've seen a lot of this kind of thing, and in fact this > > particular essay has been pointed out to me before to be indicative of the > > Kamakhya tradition (which it is not). I am not making commentary positive > > or > > negative on any particular practice or sadhana, as I feel we are all MAA's > > children and if SHE accepts all sincere worship, and accepts all people as > > HER own, then how can I do otherwise? > > But I also feel that whenever these kinds of things are posted, it's > > important to present a counterpoint for balance. This is routinely done for > > other Devis and places and practices, so why not for Kamakhya? > > > > jai MAA > > -kulasundari > > > > Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir > > www.kamakhyamandir.org > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:44 AM, riktanandanath > > <jitmajumder212 <jitmajumder212%40.co.in>>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > <%40><% > > 40>, > > > Kulasundari Devi <sundari@> wrote: > > > <<<Please be advised that although this claims to be an episode from the > > > > > > " Kamakhya Mountains, " (such a place does not exist, though Kamakhya is > > > > nestled in Nilachal Hills), this is not Kamakhya tradition at all, and > > > > should not be confused as such.>>> > > > > > > The introduction to the essay is part of the essay itself, and is not the > > > information/ introduction/ view of the poster but that of the author > > > himself. > > > That apart, the Nilachal Hills is often referred to as the " Kamakhya > > Hills " > > > colloqually (among Bengalis), because of its famous landmark. > > > The author only seems to put on record and share his own experiences > > which > > > he had gained in that particular place and among those adepts, and > > himself > > > does not seem aware of, or attempting to comment on, the tradition he > > > describes and the rituals he narrates. He himself appears to be a layman > > who > > > does not claim to be tantra-literate or familiar with which tradition > > comes > > > from where. > > > > > > regards -- Jit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Om sam Saraswatyai Namah Namaste, Well spoken. It's ironic that if one even casually studies the wisdom found in all hindu traditions, They could go back and read the Abrahamic Scriptures with a fresh perspective and gain deeper insights. With the Gurus blessings, I can read very clearly in the Bible (especially Isaiah, Proverbs, And the Gospel of John) that one who follows the teachings, while abandoning " church mentality " can gain what Yogis gain. I'd give examples, but this is a Hindu Site [Moderator's note: Thank you for stopping there.] ________________________________ Shankari Kali <shankari_kali Namaste: Hindus tend to look within and blame themselves for their own circumstances, which from a psychological standpoint is healthier than blaming others. [....] The worst enemy of Hinduism right now is illiteracy. Shanti Om! Shankari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Not all information is accurate information. Misinformation and exploitation is potentially dangerous to individuals and to the tradition(s), and yet there is plenty of misinformation, exploitation and mutation of the various Tantric traditions in order to feed individual power and greed. Which is not ultimately the point of Tantra at all, despite some repeated claims to the contrary: " get rich quick! get a lover now! defeat your enemies! have better sex! " etc., ad nauseum.... On a different note, although I can definitely sympathize with the desire to preserve culture and knowledge, there is no need to exert pressure in this way. The kind of argument given below has historically been used as the basis for violence against Muslims and Christians (and vice versa), and for exploitation of various people and communities. It's very slippery ground that this kind of manipulative argument creates. That being said, I'm not against various traditions revealing their wisdom and secrets to others in the way they see fit, whether in public or in private. They are responsible for themselves and who am I to say otherwise? Paths new and old are welcome to interact and approach MAA and learn their own lessons in the process. Every tradition has its own approach toward growth and preservation. But to argue that no tradition has a valid reason for keeping itself hidden and should reveal all its secrets as a matter of survival is either mis-informed at best, or self-serving at worst. -kulasundari Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir www.kamakhyamandir.org On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:26 PM, gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123wrote: > > > This is One view. We had been under " attack " as my friend puts it for > almost 2000 years. Tantra has survived it as also has hinduism. > > jai gurudev > > dear friends, > > this may not be liked by many but truth is truth. > > hinduism is loosing out to xtian evengelists and islamic > jihad due to many reasons,one of them being that the gurus > or adepts etc and also brahmins [ am a brahmin by birth myself ] > have kept the vodyas secret so much so that too much has > been lost forever. > > something needs to be done to stop this ebb of hinduism, > or else in next 50-100 yrs tantra and hinduism may cease > to exist. > > always the people who yearn to learn abt tantra are abused > not considered worthy etc,and turned down by people who > know something and this is causing an even greater downfall. > > as against this in islam/xtianity is spreading faster. > > i worry the day is not far when sanskrit as a language > and tantra may not exists anymore. > > we shud all co-operate and help revive it by starting > to learn the languages of the ancients and also propogating > the shastras. > > this may sound filmy,and crass,but this is kaliyug and we have > to do what it takes to keep the shastras alive. > > bhairav chakra,bhairavi chakra etc whatever if anyone knows pls > help,dont make sarcastic remarks. > > pls help to grow hindu shastras and tantra,pls. > > om shakti > > gopal > > On 7/28/09, Kulasundari Devi <sundari<sundari%40kamakhyamandir.org>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > While this is all true (and I'm aware of the colloquialism regarding > > " Kamakhya Mountains, " but was terribly inelegant in making the > > correction... > > it's significant here that it was not referred to by its proper name), > > there > > are many people who confuse accounts such as this with the Kamakhya > > tradition itself. I've seen a lot of this kind of thing, and in fact this > > particular essay has been pointed out to me before to be indicative of > the > > Kamakhya tradition (which it is not). I am not making commentary positive > > or > > negative on any particular practice or sadhana, as I feel we are all > MAA's > > children and if SHE accepts all sincere worship, and accepts all people > as > > HER own, then how can I do otherwise? > > But I also feel that whenever these kinds of things are posted, it's > > important to present a counterpoint for balance. This is routinely done > for > > other Devis and places and practices, so why not for Kamakhya? > > > > jai MAA > > -kulasundari > > > > Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir > > www.kamakhyamandir.org > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:44 AM, riktanandanath > > <jitmajumder212 <jitmajumder212%40.co.in><jitmajumder212% > 40.co.in>>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40><% > 40><% > > 40>, > > > Kulasundari Devi <sundari wrote: > > > <<<Please be advised that although this claims to be an episode from > the > > > > > > " Kamakhya Mountains, " (such a place does not exist, though Kamakhya is > > > > > nestled in Nilachal Hills), this is not Kamakhya tradition at all, and > > > > > should not be confused as such.>>> > > > > > > The introduction to the essay is part of the essay itself, and is not > the > > > information/ introduction/ view of the poster but that of the author > > > himself. > > > That apart, the Nilachal Hills is often referred to as the " Kamakhya > > Hills " > > > colloqually (among Bengalis), because of its famous landmark. > > > The author only seems to put on record and share his own experiences > > which > > > he had gained in that particular place and among those adepts, and > > himself > > > does not seem aware of, or attempting to comment on, the tradition he > > > describes and the rituals he narrates. He himself appears to be a > layman > > who > > > does not claim to be tantra-literate or familiar with which tradition > > comes > > > from where. > > > > > > regards -- Jit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 <<<Hindus tend to look within and blame themselves for their own circumstances, which from a psychological standpoint is healthier than blaming others. >>> Not necessarily. While it proves individual or collective maturity, confidence and a healthy sense of self to be capable of self-introspection and criticism, it is so only where it is justified and there is solid ground for that. But the same thing can taske the form of self-abnegation and self-flagellation, which is always the outcome of an injured sense of self, a deep seated inferiority complex and an internalised shame/ self-hate. The Hindus, who are still psychologically colonised and traumatised and complex-ridden to a large extent, often take the path of self-defeating self-flagellation, and otherwise, they act out under a collective reaction formation -- which comes out in the form of reactionism, xenophobia, and reactionary revivalism. <<<we have to simply accept that some religions are very aggressive. They are fundamentally stepping on other's toes and getting in other people's faces.>>> that is surely a good start. but not the final deduction. Those religions are not aggressive per se. their main, and fundamental problem, is that they are FALSE, or UNTRUE. Their main problem is that they are incompatible with the continuous changing and forward movement of the collective consciousness, and the natural and spontaneous direction of human nature and that of nature itself as a whole. Their aggressiveness, intolerance and predatory nature is BECAUSE of that basic falseness or untruthfulness of those creeds. those creeds are founded on hoaxes, very big hoaxes. So, as with individuals, so with collectives -- you need to be aggressive, predatory, in-your-face, and intolerant, only when you are basically insecure, unstable and subconsciously aware of your actual (lack of) intrinsic value. And you need to be insecure (hence of the bullying type) only when you know deep inside that you are a hoax, and cannot stand up to critical, scientific, moral, intellectual and philosophical evaluation and asessment. <<<Even peaceful Gandhi became angry>>> Gandhi was not peaceful. That is one of those special kind of " civilizational myths " that re carefully created by the establishment, fed to several suceeding generations, repeated endlessly via the mass-media of the establishment, till it becomes and internalised goebbelsian " truth " that nobody thinks of questioning simply because nobody (in general) has ever been taught or allowed to suspect that that might not have been historically true. Gandhi was a most violent man. only his violence was internalised, i.e. it was repressed violence -- directed inwards, which came out in a twisted and perverted form of countrfeit " non-violence " . and that " non-violence " became one of the most violent and costly consequences in the history of the world. He was not peaceful, he was inversely-violent. that is why his so-called non-violence became a tool for the truly violent to prey on the actual non-violents and helpless. gandhi was a man of repressed violent passions -- which resulted in a severe case of reaction-formation and cognitive dissonance in him. <<<Indigenous religions are dying due to aggressive preachers and individuals who force conversion.>>> that is not the direct result. that is the indirect result. The direct cause is that the followers of indegenous religions often do not bother to learn and understand the strategies of their enemies, and hence cannot create a counter-strategy of ideologiccal and intelletcual defence. the second self-defeating mistake is that the targets of these aggressors insist on mapping or projecting themselves on to their enemies, and judging them by the standards by which they judge themselves. the third basic reason is that the indigenous people are often far too deep in a colonised and complex-ridden psychology, which because of its colonised inferiority complex, cannot outgrow the compulsive habit of playing by the rules set by their more stategically sophisticated enemies, and cannot develop and sophisticated ideological defense of their own due to lack of grounding in their own culture, and due to the habit of seeing their own things with eyes conditioned by the colonial education they receive. <<<We are supposed to love all people and accept all religions and yet aggressive religions use this idea against us. >>> we are not supposed to " love " all religions. that is another (and probabaly the most self defeating) collective disease of the post-colonial Hindu. he has internalised false notions of what constitutes " broad-mindedness " or " inclusivity " . a perfect example of what I said just above -- the colonial education, and its resulting in palying by the rules set down by our enemies. looking at oursleves with their eys, and judging ourselves and our values with their yardsticks. Hinduism has never preached one-sided " love affairs " . nor has it preached accpeting the untrue and the false, and treating them at par with the true and the genuine. Hinduism teaches just the opposite -- to critically judge, evaluate and analyse creeds or belief systems with the yardstick of " satya " or truth, and to use the yardstick of yogic spirituality to measure the truthness or falsity of a creed, and to accept or to reject somethingon that basis. Hindusim has not taught us to open our doors to wolves and hyenas, but to acpet onyl what is proved to be good after critical evaluation. <<<The worst enemy of Hinduism right now is illiteracy. >>> The worst enemy is the colonised and traumatised, complex-ridden psychology -- that very psychology that wants to show itslef as the proverbial " nice guy " by opening its doors to anyone and everyone without judgement or rational evaluation -- in order to appear " good " before the eyes of our enemies. in order to receive a pat on the back for being " good " according to the enemies standards. The " illiteracy " is only (one of) the results of that psychological state and its resulting cultural/civilizational amnesia that post-colonial neo-hindus suffer from. Evrything apparent is because of something else that may not be so apparent. Unless the causes are not taken care of, the effects cannot be set right. What is not cured inside, can never be cured outside. -- Jit. , Shankari Kali <shankari_kali wrote: > > Namaste: > > Hindus tend to look within and blame themselves for their own circumstances, which from a psychological standpoint is healthier than blaming others. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Namaste Jason: One of the great blessings of Tantra/ Shaktaism is the absolute acceptance of all paths. I do agree that after I read the Vedas and studied Tantra for awhile I had a completely different point of view about Jesus' mission and who is was. Many of the things he said sounded eeriely like a yogi or a guru. In the Gnostic texts, he sounds like a full blown Buddhist or Vedantan. Shanti Om, Shankari http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235552912 http://www.myspace.com/shankari_kali --- On Tue, 7/28/09, Jason Frost <frostdancer2000 wrote: With the Gurus blessings, I can read very clearly in the Bible (especially Isaiah, Proverbs, And the Gospel of John) that one who follows the teachings, [....] can gain what Yogis gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Namaste Riktanandanath: Maybe this is what I detect is almost an " apologizing for one's existence " point of view, a type of self-hatred that was perpetuated by colonizers. I detected the same point of view in Native American people who had been told over and over that everything that they believed was false, and that their culture was inferior and worthy of genocide. Alcoholism was rampant. Suicide was rampant. I agree that one should understand the tactics of one's opponent to counter it, and to do that one should be wary. One should be well read, educated. One should also heal internally from inferiority complex that seems to have hold on many people. I enjoyed your post. Thanks. --Shankari http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1235552912 http://www.myspace.com/shankari_kali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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