Guest guest Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just a rampling thoughts ..... We are the one who create our own pain. We have so much attachment that we are like the traveller carrying a lot of unnecessary baggage on our back, and then we wonder why are we feeling so tired all the time. We lament that our journey is taking such a long time. Sometime back I think I did talk about " I rather be an empty vessel " . At some point it is not good to share experience especially spiritual experience because each experience is unique and special to you. To share is only to pollute other people and also your own sadhana. Sometimes we are so caught in our own fear. We have so much fear about everything. Fear of failure, fear of being along, fear of not being love, fear of abandonment. We have this fear because our mind is never free from the experience of the past. Our actions and everything else is the byproduct of our experience. It's this past experience that create this conditioning. So my question is can we remove our mind from this conditioning? Let say if our mind is like a vessel containing all the experiences, recondition means to remove and empty all the content until there is none only then we are able to experience the purity of the new experience, because like collecting milk in the vessel as long as there's left over or stale milk in the vessel, if you do not empty them, it will pollute the fresh milk. The new milk can never remain fresh or pure. Just as spiritual experience, our encounter with people and our daily living too can remain pure and honest is we are able to empty our thoughts. Once you are empty, you are open to new things... new knowledge and new ideas. I like to share my conversation I had with my guru sometime back .... Me: So my question is " how does the mind empty itself? " Can the mind empty itself? Guruji: try Me: its when the mind says " I dont know.......i really dont know' That is what Krishnamurthy said. When the mind accepts this statement " I don't know " the mind is actually emptying itself of its content and being humble. Only then the mind is ready to accept new experience and everything that arise from it will be fresh and pure. But the mind is naughty yes........mind is always seeking for knowledge. Guruji: yes Me : Should we stop the mind from seeking.........what if knowledge comes to us........when we never ask for it. Should we ignore it.............and pretend we did not hear it? Guruji: No mind should seek but not what others experienced. It should seek personal experience Me : When the mind have read other people experience it automatically record it. How do we know the xperience we have is really ours and not the byproduct of what we have read, see and haer? Guruji: yes Me: so when one sit .. before starting the sadhana........how do one empty the mind; remove all the content......and make it really empty? Guruji: let go then let go of let go. Me: let go? how? Guruji: just let go Breath deeply, relax watch each part of the body Me: " watch each part of the body? " Guruji yes from head to foot watch in the mind, as u do that the mind will let goof all thoughtwatch in the mindif necessary sit before a mirror Me: how do you watch? You watch yourself in the mirror....... Guruji: yes To forgive onceself I believe is when you are able to accept of who you are, of what you have become and not afraid of it. To be able to see yourself, your reflection in the mirror and do not have this guilt feeling. To be able to see your nakedness in the mirror and not have the feeling of shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 NMadasamy wrote: > > > Just a rampling thoughts ..... > > We are the one who create our own pain. We have so much attachment > that we are like the traveller carrying a lot of unnecessary baggage > on our back, and then we wonder why are we feeling so tired all the > time. We lament that our journey is taking such a long time. > ----------- Oh you mean suffering. Pain is another matter. Suffering is pain along with the associated sense of feeling .WHY ME? It is perfectly possible to be in pain.....and be in bliss. ------ > > Sometime back I think I did talk about " I rather be an empty vessel " . > At some point it is not good to share experience especially spiritual > experience because each experience is unique and special to you. To > share is only to pollute other people and also your own sadhana. > Sometimes we are so caught in our own fear. We have so much fear about > everything. Fear of failure, fear of being along, fear of not being > love, fear of abandonment. We have this fear because our mind is never > free from the experience of the past. > ----- Mind can never be free from the experience , which is always the past...........because mind is the past. ---- > Our actions and everything else is the byproduct of our experience. > It's this past experience that create this conditioning. > > So my question is can we remove our mind from this conditioning? > ------ Mind being the very conditioning-in-the-moment........mind cannot ever be free from conditioning. ------ > Let say if our mind is like a vessel containing all the experiences, > recondition means to remove and empty all the content until there is > none only then we are able to experience the purity of the new > experience, because like collecting milk in the vessel as long as > there's left over or stale milk in the vessel, if you do not empty > them, it will pollute the fresh milk. The new milk can never remain > fresh or pure. > ------- All experience is curdled milk. Even that which is held to be profoundly pure. That, whose expression is the experience both the profane and the profound....can never be an experienced object. ------ > > Just as spiritual experience, our encounter with people and our daily > living too can remain pure and honest is we are able to empty our > thoughts. Once you are empty, you are open to new things... new > knowledge and new ideas. > ------- Which is the new bacteria curdling the milk. The concept of emptiness, defined as a somehow achieved/created/reached..... available space for the new... .....is not emptiness. The apperception of emptiness........is the ending of the very concept of emptiness. And of fullness. ------- > > I like to share my conversation I had with my guru sometime back .... > > Me: So my question is " how does the mind empty itself? " Can the mind > empty itself? > > Guruji: try > > Me: its when the mind says " I dont know.......i really dont know' That > is what Krishnamurthy said. When the mind accepts this statement " I > don't know " the mind is actually emptying itself of its content and > being humble. Only then the mind is ready to accept new experience and > everything that arise from it will be fresh and pure. But the mind is > naughty yes........mind is always seeking for knowledge. > > Guruji: yes > > Me : Should we stop the mind from seeking.........what if knowledge > comes to us........when we never ask for it. Should we ignore > it.............and pretend we did not hear it? > > Guruji: No mind should seek but not what others experienced. It should > seek personal experience > ----- Is there a mind to seek in the first place, whether it is of personal hoopla or borrowed hoopla? Or is the very sense that ....THIS IS seeking..... .......a sense ......associated with a series of events constituting behaviour... .....the very sense of a mind? --------- > > Me : When the mind have read other people experience it automatically > record it. How do we know the xperience we have is really ours and not > the byproduct of what we have read, see and haer? > > Guruji: yes > - ----- The answer to the posed question is not a yes. The answer to the posed question.......is that if there is an arising thought in the form of a question... ....whether such and such was authentic or borrowed... the presence of thought in the form of doubt/question.........is the immediate indication that nothing much of import has happened. When apperception happens( to use a phrase.......for the connotation of a " happening " is another conjecture)..... ......there is none left .. ...to doubt, to question, to believe, to experience .... .... hence none to define....... none to defend the definition, propound, explain or collate it into a treatise. " None to " ......without the connotation that there was someone .......which is now no more, through some process happening in time. Which is why thought cannot visit this vista. And in saying so......all that has happened is that thought has coined another phrase. --------- > > Me: so when one sit .. before starting the sadhana........how do one > empty the mind; remove all the content......and make it really empty? > ---------- For whom does the question arise? Who has taken delivery of the question of the how? About what that how......is of least import. The implosion of the very questioner of the very question. --------- > > Guruji: let go then let go of let go. > ------- Yes. And let go of the idea that a letting go can ever be done. ----- > > Me: let go? how? > > Guruji: just let go Breath deeply, relax watch each part of the body > > Me: " watch each part of the body? " > > Guruji yes from head to foot watch in the mind, as u do that the mind > will let goof all thoughtwatch in the mindif necessary sit before a mirror > ------- See(which does not take place in the mind)..... .....that the very body being watched in a mirror.......the mirror........and all the issues which is held together under the guise of seeking....the physical and spiritual experiences, the judgements which divide the moment into the profane and the profound.. ...the entire drama .....including the appearing-so-real biological objects..........the entire enchilada .......exists only in the mind. I.e. as nuances of the play of thought. -------- > > Me: how do you watch? You watch yourself in the mirror....... > > Guruji: yes > > To forgive onceself I believe is when you are able to accept of who > you are, of what you have become and not afraid of it. To be able to > see yourself, your reflection in the mirror and do not have this guilt > feeling. To be able to see your nakedness in the mirror and not have > the feeling of shame. > --- Denuded being the case already... .....nakedness cannot be seen, achieved, created, reached, experienced. The very sense of an attempt........is the covering. And in denudation.......appears this display of infinite events............as a display of what would it be like...........IF..........something could ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 My humble pranam to your Guruji. , " NMadasamy " <nora wrote: > > I like to share my conversation I had with my guru sometime back .... > > Me: So my question is " how does the mind empty itself? " Can the mind empty itself? > > Guruji: try > > Me: its when the mind says " I dont know.......i really dont know' That is what Krishnamurthy said. When the mind accepts this statement " I don't know " the mind is actually emptying itself of its content and being humble. Only then the mind is ready to accept new experience and everything that arise from it will be fresh and pure. But the mind is naughty yes........mind is always seeking for knowledge. > > Guruji: yes > > Me : Should we stop the mind from seeking.........what if knowledge comes to us........when we never ask for it. Should we ignore it.............and pretend we did not hear it? > > Guruji: No mind should seek but not what others experienced. It should seek personal experience > > Me : When the mind have read other people experience it automatically record it. How do we know the xperience we have is really ours and not the byproduct of what we have read, see and haer? > > Guruji: yes > > Me: so when one sit .. before starting the sadhana........how do one empty the mind; remove all the content......and make it really empty? > > Guruji: let go then let go of let go. > > Me: let go? how? > > Guruji: just let go Breath deeply, relax watch each part of the body > > Me: " watch each part of the body? " > > Guruji yes from head to foot watch in the mind, as u do that the mind will let goof all thoughtwatch in the mindif necessary sit before a mirror > > Me: how do you watch? You watch yourself in the mirror....... > > Guruji: yes > > > To forgive onceself I believe is when you are able to accept of who you are, of what you have become and not afraid of it. To be able to see yourself, your reflection in the mirror and do not have this guilt feeling. To be able to see your nakedness in the mirror and not have the feeling of shame. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 You know, Nora, I think you may be right. I think a big part of " letting go " is learning how to accept one self for who one is, and became. I am happy with the new experiences I have learned, and I think it is just a matter of learning how to empty the older, stale milk so I can pour new milk and thus, have pure milk. Sad to say, we sometimes do not learn how to process our experiences in a way that lets us empty out and pour in new milk, thus having pure milk. I think I need to learn how to empty out old milk...it is just a matter of learning how. It was part of why I asked about a mantra for such. Prayer and mantras are very helpful for me. Whenever I recite the ones I have, I feel a pleasant calmness, clarity in thought, and sometimes, bliss. The time I started this e-mail thread was a very bad, single experience. But, the experience is perhaps a blessing in disguise; Devi's way of showing me I still need to learn how to process the past experiences that deign to haunt me; showing me I still need to learn how to empty the milk and pour in new milk. This experience perhaps is my own though and may not always be shared by others...at least not in completeness. An old western philosopher named Socrates once said, " I know one thing, and that is nothing. " Being able to mentally and spiritually come to terms with this might just be a start. A room mate I had a while back actually had an interesting way of putting it...instead of worrying about embarrassing one's self again, why not look forward to being embarrassed again? In some ways, that is almost suggesting the idea of looking at every day like a child would, unaware of the new experiences until they happen. In any event, my long ramblings aside, forgiving one self, I think, is very important in sadhana. We are still part of the greater collective in humanity and to say one group should be more forgiven than another separates people from that greater whole; separates people from realizing God[dess] more. My lesson needs learned not just by mind but by all of myself, that I am still part of that greater whole. I can say this is a challenge in most individualistic cultures...or any culture where stratification is still part of everyday life. Or where someone is taught to treat one group or another as less than human. Thank you again for this discussion everyone... Jai Maa! Sincerely, Christina/Arya > > NMadasamy wrote: > > > > > > Just a rampling thoughts ..... > > > > We are the one who create our own pain. We have so much attachment > > that we are like the traveller carrying a lot of unnecessary baggage > > on our back, and then we wonder why are we feeling so tired all the > > time. We lament that our journey is taking such a long time. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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