Guest guest Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hello- I was wondering- have any of you found Shakti groups in your physical communities? I'm a 31 year old woman living in the New York/New Jersey area, and although these online groups are wonderful, I would love to interact with like-minded people in person. But...I don't know how to find them. That's one thing I've envied about Christians ;-)- their social events, bazaars, etc. I wish Hindus in the States would have similar things. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Linda Johnsen relates the adage: " When in public, be a Vaishnava. When among friends, be a Shaiva. But in private, always be a Shakta. " If the saying reflects common experience, then perhaps in general Shaktism isn't so much a public expression, and it's perhaps not so common to find (or join) a group of public Devi worshippers. That said, There's a group in Kingston, NJ that posts events to this group frequently; search the message archive for 'NJ'. You could google to see if there's a Devi temple within a reasonable distance of where you live. If you are able to make a rather long trip upstate, there's the Sri Rajarajeshwari Peetham in Rush, NY. http://www.esrividya.org/home.aspx Best wishes. , " sd " <salharmonica wrote: > > Hello- > > I was wondering- have any of you found Shakti groups in your physical communities? I'm a 31 year old woman living in the New York/New Jersey area, and although these online groups are wonderful, I would love to interact with like-minded people in person. But...I don't know how to find them. That's one thing I've envied about Christians ;-)- their social events, bazaars, etc. I wish Hindus in the States would have similar things. Any ideas? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Namaste, Living in the Midwest, I have a considerably similar problem and I have yet to be initiated into a tradition. However, I have also learned something else in a rather awkward situation. A number of Hindus I know are religiously a Hindu, but they do not consider themselves one denomination/school of thought or another. After talking to someone from the group, it may be a possibility that a lot of Hindus do not see themselves as one over another most of the time, so you rarely see a temple dedicated to one school of thought or another. And yes, I sympathize in my envy for Christians and even Muslims - I have found them able to congregate more often than the Hindus in this particular area. In any event, I suppose I am learning a lesson in patience on my end. :-) That or I am looking in the wrong place. Sincerely, Christina/Arya On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:17 PM, sd <salharmonica wrote: > > I was wondering- have any of you found Shakti groups in your physical > communities? I'm a 31 year old woman living in the New York/New Jersey area, [....] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Dear Friends, There are many Devi Worshipers , It is not only in popular Hinduism, but in other religions also. It was originally invented/developed by Buddhism,followed by Jainism , Saivaism and at last by Brahmanism(Vedic religion). Now Devi can be worshiped in various way, the best is Tantric way. The tantric method of worship should be restricted to people who are enlightned to a certain level. Hence, Such people definitely will be less. The other worships of Devi is just rituals, for that you many people will be available How ever Devi worship in tantric way is not a religion only, but it is beyond religion. It is a pure science and any person irrespective of his religion can study and practice Devi Worship. Regards.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It's quite common to see temples dedicated to particular deities in India, where the majority in most places are Hindu and thus there is a lot of support and capital (political, financial, historical) for supporting these things. In fact, this is historically the norm, each deity has his or her own temple (there might be multiple temples to multiple related deities within a single temple complex, however). In the US, Hindus from India have had to band together to form temples to multiple deities that provide for the spiritual needs of ex-pats from all over india, with many different personal and family deities. So this is why so many temples house a variety of deities. A Shaiva community might be too small to build a Shiva temple, but if they band together with the Vaishnavas, they can build a temple to Shiva and Vishnu, and also install shrines for, say, Krishna, Durga, Ganesh and Sai Baba, etc., so that it will truly serve the broad community and be self-sustaining. Then you have Hindus such as myself who are essentially converts. I have started a Devi temple in my home, which has a few regular attendees, and I hope that someday it will be a big temple with its own building, etc. In the meantime, in addition to attending to this temple, I also occasionally travel the 20-60 minutes it takes to get to other temples in my area. But I don't do this as often as I would like (which is to say, I should do it more often and I would be happier). In any case, I would take msbauju's advice and look for temples in your area. Even if it is a temple dedicated to Shiva or Vishnu, etc., there is a good chance that there will also be a shrine to Devi there and that there will be regular Devi abhishekams and pujas that you can attend, and that way you can meet other people who have similar interests. After all, we Shaktas generally believe that all deities are a manifestation of our Divine Mother and so there's no conflict in going to temples dedicated to other deities. much luck in your search! -kulasundari Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir www.kamakhyamandir.org On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Amaya Kalarathri < theilluminatedcelestial wrote: > > > Namaste, > > Living in the Midwest, I have a considerably similar problem and I have yet > to be initiated into a tradition. However, I have also learned something > else in a rather awkward situation. > > A number of Hindus I know are religiously a Hindu, but they do not consider > themselves one denomination/school of thought or another. After talking to > someone from the group, it may be a possibility that a lot of Hindus do not > see themselves as one over another most of the time, so you rarely see a > temple dedicated to one school of thought or another. And yes, I sympathize > in my envy for Christians and even Muslims - I have found them able to > congregate more often than the Hindus in this particular area. > > In any event, I suppose I am learning a lesson in patience on my end. :-) > That or I am looking in the wrong place. > > Sincerely, > Christina/Arya > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:17 PM, sd <salharmonica<salharmonica%40>> > wrote: > > > > > I was wondering- have any of you found Shakti groups in your physical > > communities? I'm a 31 year old woman living in the New York/New Jersey > area, [....] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Oh no, Devi is so much older than Buddhism. There's Devi Sukta, and yet she is older than Rg Veda too. She is deeply rooted, just look at the neolithic art at Merhgarh and so many other ancient towns. So many of the folk rituals go back and back and back. The people of the land count, even if history passes them over. It's that Devi just keeps resurging through all the religious transformations in India's history. Max >There are many Devi Worshipers , It is not only in popular Hinduism, >but in other religions also. > >It was originally invented/developed by Buddhism,followed by Jainism >, Saivaism and at last by Brahmanism(Vedic religion). -- Max Dashu Art in Goddess Reverence http://www.maxdashu.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 jai gurudev the first god to be worshipped is nature=prakruti,and its a scientific fact that we r evoled by her,so is the real,truth,provable and proven god. our own dna,genes,chromozomes,say this truth in every breath we take. energy=shakti=prakruti is not created or destroyed. this is the law of science. so she exists before universe began,and will exist forever. we r part of her divinity,as we r part of nature. sridevi atharvasheesh shlok 8 : NAMO DEVYEY MAHADEVYEY SHIVAYEY SATATAM NAMAHA NAMAHA PRAKRUTIYEY BHADRAYEY NIYATAHA PANANTAM SMATAM WE BOW TO THE GODDESS THE GREAT GODDESS THE DOER OF GOOD WE BOW TO U WE BOW TO MOTHER NATURE THE PROTECTOR WE BOW TO U AGAIN AND AGAIN IN AN ORDERLY WAY all religion,caste is man created and divides but mother is most loving divine and truth and she loves us all unconditionally. om shakti gopal On 10/23/09, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: > > > > Oh no, Devi is so much older than Buddhism. There's Devi Sukta, and > yet she is older than Rg Veda too. > > She is deeply rooted, just look at the neolithic art at Merhgarh and > so many other ancient towns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 There is no doubt that Devi worship ( worship of the Mother) predates Buddhism ,Jainism by a large time span and even the Vedic religion and was very popular not only in India , but in other ancient civilizations also. regards Rohit ________________________________ Max Dashu <maxdashu Oh no, Devi is so much older than Buddhism. There's Devi Sukta, and yet she is older than Rg Veda too. She is deeply rooted, just look at the neolithic art at Merhgarh and so many other ancient towns. So many of the folk rituals go back and back and back. The people of the land count, even if history passes them over. It's that Devi just keeps resurging through all the religious transformations in India's history. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 thanks for your responses, everyone. I do live near a wonderful Devi temple, but that tends to attract mostly older people/families, etc., who I'm sure are very nice, but involved with their own kids, lives, etc. Like I said, I'm 31, a single professional, and looking to meet other people in my situation- that is, people who could meet up and talk about these issues. I say " Devi " - but I guess I'm just really looking for more spiritually-minded people I can relate to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Finding spiritual companionship takes creativity and flexiblity, because, as you note, 30-something single professionals don't tend to flock to the local Hindu temple, for whatever reason. If you're interested in the temple anyway, try volunteering -- if you have something to do, you might feel less like a fifth wheel. Beyond that, you'll probably need widen your search a bit -- see what's available in your area: look for a meditation group, maybe a hatha yoga class, perhaps a Bhagavad Gita discussion group, a kirtan group, a Sanskrit class, a community college class on Hinduism, a women's spirituality group at a New Age church, a singles group at a New Age church.... You'll just have to see what works. , " sd " <salharmonica wrote: > > thanks for your responses, everyone. I do live near a wonderful Devi temple, but that tends to attract mostly older people/families, etc., who I'm sure are very nice, but involved with their own kids, lives, etc. Like I said, I'm 31, a single professional, and looking to meet other people in my situation- that is, people who could meet up and talk about these issues. I say " Devi " - but I guess I'm just really looking for more spiritually-minded people I can relate to... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Historically Devi Puja started very late. Buddhism ist started,next is Jainism , Saivaism. at the end Brahminism adopted it and made a part of Vedic literature. From Saivaism came Saktaism. From Mahayani came Bajrayani These are historical truths, and not mythology. --- On Fri, 23/10/09, rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha wrote: rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha There is no doubt that Devi worship ( worship of the Mother) predates Buddhism ,Jainism by a large time span and even the Vedic religion and was very popular not only in India , but in other ancient civilizations also. regards Rohit ____________ _________ _________ __ Max Dashu <maxdashu (AT) lmi (DOT) net> Oh no, Devi is so much older than Buddhism. There's Devi Sukta, and yet she is older than Rg Veda too. She is deeply rooted, just look at the neolithic art at Merhgarh and so many other ancient towns. So many of the folk rituals go back and back and back. The people of the land count, even if history passes them over. It's that Devi just keeps resurging through all the religious transformations in India's history. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 msbauju- those are some good ideas! thanks...i guess now, it's just a matter of putting myself out there and doing those things. :-) , " msbauju " <msbauju wrote: > > Finding spiritual companionship takes creativity and flexiblity, because, as you note, 30-something single professionals don't tend to flock to the local Hindu temple, for whatever reason. If you're interested in the temple anyway, try volunteering -- if you have something to do, you might feel less like a fifth wheel. > > Beyond that, you'll probably need widen your search a bit -- see what's available in your area: look for a meditation group, maybe a hatha yoga class, perhaps a Bhagavad Gita discussion group, a kirtan group, a Sanskrit class, a community college class on Hinduism, a women's spirituality group at a New Age church, a singles group at a New Age church.... You'll just have to see what works. > > , " sd " <salharmonica@> wrote: > > > > thanks for your responses, everyone. I do live near a wonderful Devi temple, but that tends to attract mostly older people/families, etc., [....] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 whoever gave that idea Abhijit...but then whatever makes you happy... Aditya On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 6:47 PM, sd <salharmonica wrote: > > those are some good ideas! thanks...i guess now, it's just a matter of > putting myself out there and doing those things. :-) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 By the way, Abhijit- we have the same last name. lol , Abhijit Dasgupta <abhijitdasgupta92 wrote: > > There are many Devi Worshipers , It is not only in popular Hinduism, but in other religions also. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Perhaps you have not heard of Devi worship in the Vedas, of the Ratri Suktas and of Saraswati , Ushas and other Female detites mentioned explicitily in the Rigveda. Surely the Rigveda pre dates Buddha. And also Buddhism as a philosophy and religion was codified much after the Buddha. If you mention that Devi worship started with Buddhism, please back up your statement with relevant authoritative material. In fact the Buddha never spoke of or recommended the worship of any God. Neither does Jainism. Then how can Buddhism be the first to start Devi worship. Regards Rohit ________________________________ Abhijit Dasgupta <abhijitdasgupta92 Fri, 23 October, 2009 10:00:36 PM Re: Finding other Devi worshippers Historically Devi Puja started very late. Buddhism ist started,next is Jainism , Saivaism. at the end Brahminism adopted it and made a part of Vedic literature. From Saivaism came Saktaism. From Mahayani came Bajrayani These are historical truths, and not mythology. --- On Fri, 23/10/09, rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha@ > wrote: rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha@ > There is no doubt that Devi worship ( worship of the Mother) predates Buddhism ,Jainism by a large time span and even the Vedic religion and was very popular not only in India , but in other ancient civilizations also. regards Rohit ____________ _________ _________ __ Max Dashu <maxdashu (AT) lmi (DOT) net> Oh no, Devi is so much older than Buddhism. There's Devi Sukta, and yet she is older than Rg Veda too. She is deeply rooted, just look at the neolithic art at Merhgarh and so many other ancient towns. So many of the folk rituals go back and back and back. The people of the land count, even if history passes them over. It's that Devi just keeps resurging through all the religious transformations in India's history. Max Try the new India Homepage. http://in./trynew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Dear Mr Rohit, Saraswati was praised as River and Usha was praised as Beautiful Dawn in Rig Veda. These were not worshiped or treated as God, like Devi . All Devis are being looked as a manifestation of Sakti. Out of the the 51 Sakti peethas more than 50% are found to be in Eastern India. The most prominent of them are Kamakhya temple at Assam , Credit for this peetha goes to Lord Matsendra Nath. The other one is Famous Kalighat Temple of Kolkata, The credit for this Saktipeetha goes to Lord Goroksha Nath ( Disciple of Lord Matsendra Nath) of Nath religion. The other Sakti peethas of Godess Chinna masta and baglamukhi were Buddhist Sakti peethas and were converted as Hindu Sakti Peetha. The most famous Meenakhsmi temple of Madurai was originally Padmavati temple of Jains and was converted by King Mayur Varman. Well, you may kindly refer to various historical books, along with Mythological books /literatures. One request, henceforth kindly dont underestimate others and it will be appreciated if respect is given to fellow members. With regards --- On Sat, 24/10/09, rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha wrote: rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha Re: Finding other Devi worshippers Saturday, 24 October, 2009, 5:02 AM Perhaps you have not heard of Devi worship in the Vedas, of the Ratri Suktas and of Saraswati , Ushas and other Female detites mentioned explicitily in the Rigveda. Surely the Rigveda pre dates Buddha. And also Buddhism as a philosophy and religion was codified much after the Buddha. If you mention that Devi worship started with Buddhism, please back up your statement with relevant authoritative material. In fact the Buddha never spoke of or recommended the worship of any God. Neither does Jainism. Then how can Buddhism be the first to start Devi worship. Regards Rohit ____________ _________ _________ __ Abhijit Dasgupta <abhijitdasgupta92@ .in> Fri, 23 October, 2009 10:00:36 PM Re: Finding other Devi worshippers Historically Devi Puja started very late. Buddhism ist started,next is Jainism , Saivaism. at the end Brahminism adopted it and made a part of Vedic literature. From Saivaism came Saktaism. From Mahayani came Bajrayani These are historical truths, and not mythology. --- On Fri, 23/10/09, rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha@ > wrote: rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha@ > There is no doubt that Devi worship ( worship of the Mother) predates Buddhism ,Jainism by a large time span and even the Vedic religion and was very popular not only in India , but in other ancient civilizations also. regards Rohit ____________ _________ _________ __ Max Dashu <maxdashu (AT) lmi (DOT) net> Oh no, Devi is so much older than Buddhism. There's Devi Sukta, and yet she is older than Rg Veda too. She is deeply rooted, just look at the neolithic art at Merhgarh and so many other ancient towns. So many of the folk rituals go back and back and back. The people of the land count, even if history passes them over. It's that Devi just keeps resurging through all the religious transformations in India's history. Max Try the new India Homepage. http://in.. com/trynew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 To say that Saraswati was " only " a river and that Usha was " only " the dawn is like saying that Rudra was " only " the thunder, and Indra was " only " the wind and storms. Vac is clearly worshipped as an important, primary Goddess, for instance, in the Devi Sukta: *I am the sovereign in whom all the auspicious deities are united. Shining with consciousness, I am foremost amongst those worthy of worship. * * * (from RV 10.125 - http://kamakhyamandir.org/vidya/devisukta/) Beyond this, there is plenty of archaeological evidence of Goddess worship throughout India that pre-dates the Rg Veda. The origin of Shaktism is much, much earlier than Shaivism. Certainly there was a heavy influence of Shaiva tradition - as tribal and local deities were Brahminized, the Shakta religion in its current form owes much of its form and function to Shaiva influence. But it goes the other way as well. There is lots and lots of evidence that Devi was worshipped long before the Rg Veda was written down, even in the Rg Veda itself. So both positions have truth to them, though each has to acknowledge the other. Saying " Devi was worshipped long before " does not cancel out the fact that Shaiva religion very heavily influenced modern Shaktism, and saying that modern Shaktism originated in Shaivism does not cancel out the fact that Devi is the focus of Shaktism because she has been worshipped since pre-history. The worship and social interaction at Kamakhya, for instance, owes itself not only to Brahminical religion and Shaiva Tantra, but also to indigenous tribal traditions which were Goddess-focused and matrifocal (and still are in some places). This also differs from, say, the current matrilineal traditions of Kerala, just as the concept and worship of Kali is very different in Kamakhya and in Bengal vs. Kerala, even though Kali is very important as a Goddess in both areas. shanti jai MAA kamesvari -kulasundari Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir www.kamakhyamandir.org On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Abhijit Dasgupta < abhijitdasgupta92 wrote: > > > Dear Mr Rohit, > > Saraswati was praised as River and Usha was praised as Beautiful Dawn in > Rig Veda. > > These were not worshiped or treated as God, like Devi . > > All Devis are being looked as a manifestation of Sakti. > > Out of the the 51 Sakti peethas more than 50% are found to be in Eastern > India. The most prominent of them are Kamakhya temple at Assam , Credit for > this peetha goes to Lord Matsendra Nath. The other one is Famous Kalighat > Temple of Kolkata, The credit for this Saktipeetha goes to Lord Goroksha > Nath ( Disciple of Lord Matsendra Nath) of Nath religion. > The other Sakti peethas of Godess Chinna masta and baglamukhi were Buddhist > Sakti peethas and were converted as Hindu Sakti Peetha. > > The most famous Meenakhsmi temple of Madurai was originally Padmavati > temple of Jains and was converted by King Mayur Varman. > > Well, you may kindly refer to various historical books, along with > Mythological books /literatures. > One request, henceforth kindly dont underestimate others and it will be > appreciated if respect is given to fellow members. > > With regards > > > --- On Sat, 24/10/09, rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha<rohitkumtha%40>> > wrote: > > rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha <rohitkumtha%40>> > Re: Finding other Devi worshippers > <%40> > Saturday, 24 October, 2009, 5:02 AM > > > > > Perhaps you have not heard of Devi worship in the Vedas, of the Ratri > Suktas and of Saraswati , Ushas and other Female detites mentioned > explicitily in the Rigveda. Surely the Rigveda pre dates Buddha. And also > Buddhism as a philosophy and religion was codified much after the Buddha. > > If you mention that Devi worship started with Buddhism, please back up > your statement with relevant authoritative material. > > In fact the Buddha never spoke of or recommended the worship of any God. > Neither does Jainism. Then how can Buddhism be the first to start Devi > worship. > > Regards > > Rohit > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Abhijit Dasgupta <abhijitdasgupta92@ .in> > > > > Fri, 23 October, 2009 10:00:36 PM > > Re: Finding other Devi worshippers > > > > Historically Devi Puja started very late. > > Buddhism ist started,next is Jainism , Saivaism. at the end Brahminism > adopted it and made a part of Vedic literature. > > From Saivaism came Saktaism. > > From Mahayani came Bajrayani > > These are historical truths, and not mythology. > > --- On Fri, 23/10/09, rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha@ > wrote: > > rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha@ > > > There is no doubt that Devi worship ( worship of the Mother) predates > Buddhism ,Jainism by a large time span and even the Vedic religion and was > very popular not only in India , but in other ancient civilizations also. > > regards > > Rohit > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Max Dashu <maxdashu (AT) lmi (DOT) net> > > Oh no, Devi is so much older than Buddhism. There's Devi Sukta, and > > yet she is older than Rg Veda too. > > She is deeply rooted, just look at the neolithic art at Merhgarh and > > so many other ancient towns. So many of the folk rituals go back and > > back and back. The people of the land count, even if history passes > > them over. > > It's that Devi just keeps resurging through all the religious > > transformations in India's history. > > Max > > Try the new India Homepage. http://in.. com/trynew > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I'm having to do a lot of reading and research at the moment, and I ran across these verses in Rig Veda today. I thought they might be pertinent to this ongoing discussion. I present them for curiosity's sake. Also, they're just beautiful poetry. I've made bold the items that I feel are pertinent to the discussion around the antiquity of Goddess worship and its place in the Vedas. RV I.13.1-12 1 AGNI, well-kindled,* bring the Gods for him who offers holy gifts*. *Worship them*, Purifier, Priest. 2 Son of Thyself, present, O Sage, *our sacrifice to the Gods today.* Sweet to the taste, that they may feast. 3 Dear NarÄÅ›aá¹sa, sweet of tongue, the giver of oblations, I Invoke to this our sacrifice. 4 Agni, on thy most easy car, glorified,* hither bring the Gods*: Manu appointed thee as Priest. 5 Strew, O ye wise, the sacred grass that drips with oil, in order due, Where the Immortal is beheld. 6 Thrown open be the Doors Divine, unfailing, that assist the rite, For sacrifice this day and now. *7 I call the lovely Night (Ratri) and Dawn (Ushas) to seat them on the holy grass At this our solemn sacrifice. *8 The two Invokers I invite, the wise, divine and sweet of tongue, To celebrate this our sacrifice. *9 IḷÄ, SarasvatÄ«, MahÄ«, three Goddesses who bring delight, Be seated, peaceful, on the grass.* 10 Tvaá¹£á¹ar I call, the earliest born, the wearer of all forms at will: May he be ours and ours alone. 11 God, Sovran of the Wood, present this our oblation to the Gods, And let the giver be renowned. 12 With SvÄhÄ pay the sacrifice to Indra in the offerer's house: Thither I call the Deities. RV I.22.9-12 9 O Agni, hither bring to us the willing *Spouses of the Gods*, And Tvaá¹£á¹ar, to the Soma draught. 10 Most youthful Agni, *hither bring their Spouses, HotrÄ, BhÄratÄ«, VarÅ«trÄ«, Dhiá¹£aṇÄ, for aid*. 11 *Spouses of Heroes, Goddesses, with whole wings may they come to us With great protection and with aid. 12 IndrÄṇī, VaruṇÄnÄ«, and AgnÄyÄ« hither I invite, For weal, to drink the Soma juice.* RV I.23.16-23 (waters are the Goddess herself, and the source of immortality and soul cleansing) 16 *Along their paths the Mothers go, Sisters of priestly ministrants, Mingling their sweetness with the milk.* 17 May Waters gathered near the Sun, and those wherewith the Sun is joined, Speed forth this sacrifice of ours. 18 *I call the Waters, Goddesses, wherein our cattle quench their thirst; Oblations to the Streams be given.* 19 Amrit is in the Waters in the Waters there is healing balm Be swift, ye Gods, to give them praise. 20 Within the Waters—Soma thus hath told me—dwell all balms that heal, And Agni, he who blesseth all. The Waters hold all medicines. 21 O Waters, teem with medicine to keep my body safe from harm, So that I long may see the Sun. 22 Whatever sin is found in me, whatever evil I have wrought. If I have lied or falsely sworn, Waters, remove it far from me. 23 The Waters I this day have sought, and to their moisture have we come: O Agni, rich in milk, come thou, and with thy splendour cover me. RV I.24.1-2 (Aditi is later revealed as the Goddess who birthed the universe, the source of all) 1 WHO now is he, what God among Immortals, of whose auspicious name we may bethink us? *Who shall to mighty Aditi restore us*, that I may see my Father and my Mother? 2 Agni the God the first among the Immortals,—of his auspicious name let us bethink us. *He shall to mighty Aditi restore us*, that I may see my Father and my Mother. I could go on and on, but this should illustrate the point well enough for now. Later on in Rg Veda it's pretty clear that women have strong roles in daily and ritual life. Certainly it was a patriarchal and war-like society, but I think women had a stronger place than is generally thought, and women are named as composers of hymns (Apala, Lopamudra, Ghosa, Indrani, Saci, etc. are all purported female composers/rsis). Also, the spouses of the Gods are deemed as important partakers of the sacrificial offering, and I think this may have translated into daily life, as well, given some of the other passages in Rg Veda. At any rate, these verses have no ambiguity. The Goddesses are worshipped at the sacrifice, and many of these female deities later have hymns in praise of them. Belief in female deities is woven throughout the text. To separate subject from object, Goddess from river, etc., is postmodern analysis and not in line with what we find in the texts or the apparent beliefs of the time, as presented as a whole. We can all choose to believe whatever we like. Whether it's important to us to believe that the Buddhists originated Devi worship or that it originated much, much earlier than and in Vedic religion - it ultimately matters little. These are the things that engage us in debate and discussion but have little relevance to our daily lives. What matters to Shaktas and others is how we carry ourselves, the practice we do, how we treat others, etc. Not what may have been believed some five thousand years ago. Let's not be too attached to the past. After all, it's impossible to go back and know what was in the hearts and minds of the ancients. If we're lucky, we have some of their words, but we can only go so far with these things. We can only take them at face value. What matters most is how we live today. This whole discussion has been useful and beneficial for me, though, in various ways. So thank you to everyone for that. with respect... jai MAA kamesvari -kulasundari devi Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir www.kamakhyamandir.org On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Abhijit Dasgupta < abhijitdasgupta92 wrote: > > > Historically Devi Puja started very late. > > Buddhism ist started,next is Jainism , Saivaism. at the end Brahminism > adopted it and made a part of Vedic literature. > > From Saivaism came Saktaism. > From Mahayani came Bajrayani > > These are historical truths, and not mythology. > > --- On Fri, 23/10/09, rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha<rohitkumtha%40>> > wrote: > > rohit kumtha <rohitkumtha <rohitkumtha%40>> > > > There is no doubt that Devi worship ( worship of the Mother) predates > Buddhism ,Jainism by a large time span and even the Vedic religion and was > very popular not only in India , but in other ancient civilizations also. > > regards > > Rohit > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Max Dashu <maxdashu (AT) lmi (DOT) net> > > Oh no, Devi is so much older than Buddhism. There's Devi Sukta, and > > yet she is older than Rg Veda too. > > She is deeply rooted, just look at the neolithic art at Merhgarh and > > so many other ancient towns. So many of the folk rituals go back and > > back and back. The people of the land count, even if history passes > > them over. > > It's that Devi just keeps resurging through all the religious > > transformations in India's history. > > Max > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I do agree with this point even if I bring my own limited (and probably contaminated) knowledge to the debate. Lately, my mom said I sounded bitter toward Christianity. After some reflection, I realized I may come across as such. It is something that I took for granted, but yet is so serious to my own spiritual growth. Hopefully, I can work on this in time. My major struggle in what I wish to do in the future is making sure my spirituality is not too attached to the knowledge I obtain. The knowledge I obtain will be crucial to what I wish to do in life, but I know I need to realize that past is in the past, and the future is yet to be determined, which would leave the present. This is, of course, easier said than done. However, it is something I should definitely work on. I currently am in a romance with a British man and he knows a lot of what I do and learn will go contrary to what colonials have taught. He is aware and is understanding of this, perhaps more understanding than others in his position would be or those on the opposite side. Sometimes I think I could learn much from his tolerance and understanding. As for finding other Devi worshipers, I cannot find a congregation of them locally and I sympathize with those who cannot, either. However, I am thankful for still being able to be part of this list, and thankful for finding lessons necessary for my spirituality...perhaps these are blessings I should consider. Lately, I have simply asked my ishta devata to teach me how to better serve her (and in turn Devi's) will. I recite mantras recommended by a more experienced sadhak afterward. It may not be much compared to the more elaborate rituals people can do, but it is my hope my heart will be heard. While I have my own aspirations, I want it known to her I ultimately want to better serve her. Jai Ma. Sincerely, Christina/Arya On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Kulasundari Devi < sundari wrote: > > > I'm having to do a lot of reading and research at the moment, and I ran > across these verses in Rig Veda today. I thought they might be pertinent to > this ongoing discussion. I present them for curiosity's sake. Also, they're > just beautiful poetry. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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