Guest guest Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Is a Guru Absolutely Necessary? http://www.dlshq.org/download/gurutattva.htm GURU TATTVA By SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION In spite of much prevalence of the concept of a spiritual Guru, there is still a good deal of confusion, misunderstanding, and skepticism in the public mind on this vital matter. Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Who is a Satguru? How far can he help his Chela (disciple)? What are the duties of a disciple? What is the meaning of Initiation (diksha)? Want of clear-cut and definite answers to these and related questions often impedes the spiritual progress of earnest aspirants. We explore the answers to some of these questions here. THE NEED FOR A GURU For a beginner in the spiritual path, a Guru is necessary.To light a candle, you need a burning candle. Even so, an illumined soul alone can enlighten another soul. Some do meditation for some years independently. Later on, they actually feel the necessity for a Guru. They come across some obstacles in the way. They do not know how to obviate these impediments or stumbling blocks. Then they begin to search for a Master. Only the man who has already been to Badrinath will be able to tell you the road leading to it. In the case of the spiritual path, it is still more difficult to find your way. The mind will mislead you very often. The Guru will be able to remove pitfalls and obstacles, and lead you along the right path. He will tell you: “This road leads you to Moksha; this one leads to bondage.†Without this guidance, you might want to go to Badrinath, but find yourself in Delhi ! Is there anyone greater than Lord Rama & Krishna ? Even they took refuge in the Guru. The Lord of the three worlds, Admits subjugation to the Guru. The Lord in his incarnations as Sri Rama & Sri Krishna took refuge in the holy feet of Self Realized Saints like Guru Vishwamitra, Sage Vasishtha & Sage Sandipani, thus exemplifying the divine message of the Supreme Glory of the Guru, to whole of humanity. Sant Kabirji has nicely explained the need for a Guru in his own words: सहजोकारजसंसारके, गà¥à¤°à¥à¤¬à¤¿à¤¨à¤¹à¥‹à¤¤à¤¨à¤¾à¤¹à¤¿| हरितोगà¥à¤°à¥à¤¬à¤¿à¤¨à¤•à¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤®à¤¿à¤²à¥‡, समà¤à¤²à¥‡à¤®à¤¨à¤®à¤¾à¤¹à¤¿|| Translation: Even if you need to perform the ordinary chores of the world, you need someone to guide you in the form of a Guru. O Mind! Then ponder, how can one attain the Supreme Almighty Lord without a Guru? Guru Nanak Dev ji says: संतशरणिजोजनà¥à¤ªà¥œà¥‡, सोजनà¥à¤‰à¤¦à¥à¤§à¤°à¤£à¤¹à¤¾à¤°| संतकीनिंदानानका, बहà¥à¤°à¤¬à¤¹à¥à¤°à¤…वतार|| Translation: The one who seeks shelter under a saint crosses over the ocean of samsara. One who slanders the Saints, O Nanak, shall be reincarnated over and over again. Swami Vivekananda used to say: “I have darshan of the Lord in my Gurudev, Shri Ramakrishna Paramhansa.†The aspirant who is under the guidance of a Master or Guru is safe from being led astray. Satsanga or association with the Guru is an armour and fortress to guard you against all temptations and unfavourable forces of the material world. Cases of those who had attained perfection without study under any Guru should not be cited as authoritative against the necessity for a Guru; for, such great men are the anomalies of spiritual life, and not the common normality. They come into existence as spiritual masters as a result of the intense service, study and meditation practised in previous births. They had already studied under the Guru. The present birth is only its continuative spiritual effect. Hence, theimportance of the Guru is not lessened thereby. To summarize, quoting the famous Adi Shankaracharyaji: शरीरं सà¥à¤°à¥‚पं तथा वा कलतà¥à¤°à¤‚ यशशà¥à¤šà¤¾à¤°à¥ चितà¥à¤°à¤‚ धनं मेरà¥à¤¤à¥à¤²à¥à¤¯à¤‚ | मनशà¥à¤šà¥‡à¤¨à¥à¤¨ लगà¥à¤¨à¤‚ गà¥à¤°à¥‹à¤°à¤‚घà¥à¤°à¤¿à¤ªà¤¦à¥à¤®à¥‡ ततः किं, ततः किं, ततः किं, ततः किं || " If a person possesses a handsome, disease-free body, beautiful wife, obedient son, & fame spread all over the world, but has not surrendered himself at the holy feet of a Guru, then he has achieved nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 But how do you know if the Guru is the right one? Or an ethical one, for that matter? , Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar wrote: > > Is a Guru Absolutely > Necessary? > > http://www.dlshq.org/download/gurutattva.htm > > GURU TATTVA > By > SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA > A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION > > In spite of much prevalence of the > concept of a spiritual Guru, there is still a good deal of confusion, > misunderstanding, and skepticism in the public mind on this vital matter. > > Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Who is a > Satguru? How far can he help his Chela (disciple)? What are the duties of a > disciple? What is the meaning of Initiation (diksha)? > Want of clear-cut and definite answers to these and related questions often > impedes the spiritual progress of earnest aspirants. > > We explore the answers > to some of these questions here. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 It's wise to spend some time observing the guru from a distance. Initial impressions are important, but can also be deceiving. It's good to spend some time around the guru and his/her disciples, without making any commitment. Ask about the lineage - where does their authority come from? Do they know their lineage going back at least three times? That is, the guru, the guru's guru, and the guru's guru's guru. How to they respond to criticism and questions? Is there controversy surrounding them? Why? It's important to ask questions, and from my own experience I would say it's a good idea to spend at least a year investigating a guru and the community around them before taking formal diksha. If after a year you feel that they are genuine, and have benefitted from their teachings without diksha, if they remain above controversy and blame, if you don't feel pressured by other community members or by the guru to join, if they prove themselves to have a legitimate lineage and be transmitting the teachings in a pure and legitimate way, and if after a year or more they express a desire to welcome you as a disciple, then it's more likely that they are a genuine guru. A year is a good amount of time as a minimum, because it's good to remember that diksha is a lifelong endeavor. The relationship with the guru is like a parent and child. So one should not enter into this relationship lightly. For many of us, after a year we are able to assess whether this is a path we can truly remain passionate about, whether it speaks to us throughout the seasons. For some it may be better to wait for two or more years. Not every guru is right for every person, so just because you personally may not benefit from a guru's teachings doesn't mean they are not legitimate. Likewise, some beloved gurus have had controversies around them, which doesn't negate all of their teachings, but reminds us that a guru, however much they may have united with the dvine and shared that with their disciples, is still very much human and can make mistakes. Also, some gurus achieve such status through pure bhakti and may not have a lineage per se - but they should still be held up to rigorous analysis by the potential disciple. This is beneficial to the disciple and to the guru, because once that rigorous analysis is done and the mind has been engaged, the disciple may take diksha and surrender to the guru as is necessary, knowing that their critical mind has been engaged and satisfied. Surrendering to the guru doesn't mean leaving behind one's critical mind, but rather having emotional maturity. It's an active state, a state of self-confidence and humility. At any rate, these are only my thoughts, borne out by my own experience over the last 15 years. I'm sure others will have their own perspectives! jai MA kamesvari -kulasundari Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir www.kamakhyamandir.org On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:39 AM, sd <salharmonica wrote: > > > But how do you know if the Guru is the right one? Or an ethical one, for > that matter? > > <%40>, > Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar wrote: > > > > Is a Guru Absolutely > > Necessary? > > > > http://www.dlshq.org/download/gurutattva.htm > > > > GURU TATTVA > > By > > SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA > > A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION > > > > In spite of much prevalence of the > > concept of a spiritual Guru, there is still a good deal of confusion, > > misunderstanding, and skepticism in the public mind on this vital matter. > > > > Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Who is a > > Satguru? How far can he help his Chela (disciple)? What are the duties of > a > > disciple? What is the meaning of Initiation (diksha)? > > Want of clear-cut and definite answers to these and related questions > often > > impedes the spiritual progress of earnest aspirants. > > > > We explore the answers > > to some of these questions here. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Kochuji says it often: Â " When the student is ready, Master appears ! " " Deciple can not choose a Guru, But Guru does " --- On Thu, 12/3/09, sd <salharmonica wrote: sd <salharmonica Re: Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Thursday, December 3, 2009, 11:09 PM Â But how do you know if the Guru is the right one? Or an ethical one, for that matter? , Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@ ...> wrote: > > Is a Guru Absolutely > Necessary? > > http://www.dlshq. org/download/ gurutattva. htm > > GURU TATTVA > By > SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA > A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION > > In spite of much prevalence of the > concept of a spiritual Guru, there is still a good deal of confusion, > misunderstanding, and skepticism in the public mind on this vital matter. > > Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Who is a > Satguru? How far can he help his Chela (disciple)? What are the duties of a > disciple? What is the meaning of Initiation (diksha)? > Want of clear-cut and definite answers to these and related questions often > impedes the spiritual progress of earnest aspirants. > > We explore the answers > to some of these questions here. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 || Gurur Brahma, Gurur Vishnu, Gururdevo Maheshwarah, Guruh sakshat Parabrahma, Tasmai Shri Gurave namaha || " Guru (spiritual teacher) is Brahma, Guru is Vishnu, Guru is Maheshwar, Guru is verily Parabrahma, my adoration to Him. " A simple hymn, known for ages; yet, for some, might require more than one lifetime to understand. I take my time, my logic doesn't let me sway without my usual dose of pondering. Since I was destined, my conscience glided me towards him before it was too late. There were no needs, no desires, no expectations - nothing that influences. I was an adamant fourteen year old brat - raw, reckless; and he, like an ocean of knowledge, was is no hurry. Like my parents, he trusted me unconditionally. He let me take my own turns and always been there - watching, protecting - as I was learning to tame my wild tendencies - overconfidence, defiance, arrogance, rage. He taught - I fought, he suggested - I disagreed, he offered - I rejected. Finally, I could see what was meant to be seen. He had accepted me long before I could accept him. Now, I could feel his divinity. His tests, usually considered brutal, felt pleasant like his blessings. The whole universe was mine. Words like failure, defeat, impossible, unattainable, weakness, fear etc. had suddenly lost their meaning. " Well begun, half done " is an old saying. I wonder, would being a chosen disciple of the most powerful Guru of all times make me half a complete sadhak? Â Extract from " chronicles of a sadhak " from the net --- On Thu, 12/3/09, sd <salharmonica wrote: sd <salharmonica Re: Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Thursday, December 3, 2009, 11:09 PM Â But how do you know if the Guru is the right one? Or an ethical one, for that matter? , Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@ ...> wrote: > > Is a Guru Absolutely > Necessary? > > http://www.dlshq. org/download/ gurutattva. htm > > GURU TATTVA > By > SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA > A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION > > In spite of much prevalence of the > concept of a spiritual Guru, there is still a good deal of confusion, > misunderstanding, and skepticism in the public mind on this vital matter. > > Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Who is a > Satguru? How far can he help his Chela (disciple)? What are the duties of a > disciple? What is the meaning of Initiation (diksha)? > Want of clear-cut and definite answers to these and related questions often > impedes the spiritual progress of earnest aspirants. > > We explore the answers > to some of these questions here. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Namaskar everyone, Recently I have been asking myself what " the big G, " as this group used to call it, would or should be like. I am humbled and livened from reading these posts. They come from diverse sources and perspectives, yet I can feel moved, both emotionally and spiritually by reading them. This humbled sadhak wishes to commend everyone for sharing their perspectives. Sometimes I feel my ego discouraging me and making me doubt things more than I would like. However, it is posts and discussions like this, amongst many other posts, that inspire me and remind me to keep moving. Thank you everyone. Namaste and Jai Ma! Sincerely, Arya/Christina On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Sriram Dongre <sriramadongrewrote: > > > || Gurur Brahma, Gurur Vishnu, Gururdevo Maheshwarah, > Guruh sakshat Parabrahma, Tasmai Shri Gurave namaha || > > " Guru (spiritual teacher) is Brahma, Guru is Vishnu, Guru is Maheshwar, > Guru is verily Parabrahma, my adoration to Him. " > > A simple hymn, known for ages; yet, for some, might require more than one > lifetime to understand. > > I take my time, my logic doesn't let me sway without my usual dose of > pondering. Since I was destined, my conscience glided me towards him before > it was too late. > > There were no needs, no desires, no expectations - nothing that influences. > I was an adamant fourteen year old brat - raw, reckless; and he, like an > ocean of knowledge, was is no hurry. Like my parents, he trusted me > unconditionally. He let me take my own turns and always been there - > watching, protecting - as I was learning to tame my wild tendencies - > overconfidence, defiance, arrogance, rage. > > He taught - I fought, he suggested - I disagreed, he offered - I rejected. > Finally, I could see what was meant to be seen. He had accepted me long > before I could accept him. Now, I could feel his divinity. His tests, > usually considered brutal, felt pleasant like his blessings. The whole > universe was mine. Words like failure, defeat, impossible, unattainable, > weakness, fear etc. had suddenly lost their meaning. > > " Well begun, half done " is an old saying. I wonder, would being a chosen > disciple of the most powerful Guru of all times make me half a complete > sadhak? > > Extract from " chronicles of a sadhak " from the net > > --- On Thu, 12/3/09, sd <salharmonica <salharmonica%40>> > wrote: > > sd <salharmonica <salharmonica%40>> > Re: Is a Guru absolutely necessary? > <%40> > Thursday, December 3, 2009, 11:09 PM > > > > > But how do you know if the Guru is the right one? Or an ethical one, for > that matter? > > , Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar wrote: > > > > Is a Guru Absolutely > > Necessary? > > > > http://www.dlshq. org/download/ gurutattva. htm > > > > GURU TATTVA > > By > > SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA > > A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION > > > > In spite of much prevalence of the > > concept of a spiritual Guru, there is still a good deal of confusion, > > misunderstanding, and skepticism in the public mind on this vital matter. > > > > Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Who is a > > Satguru? How far can he help his Chela (disciple)? What are the duties of > a > > disciple? What is the meaning of Initiation (diksha)? > > Want of clear-cut and definite answers to these and related questions > often > > impedes the spiritual progress of earnest aspirants. > > > > We explore the answers > > to some of these questions here. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Pranam to all SS moderators. After a long gap a worthwhile subject appeared in the discussion. " To Have Or Not To Have A Guru? " Thank you very much. Prasanna Bombay ________________________________ Sriram Dongre <sriramadongre Kochuji says it often: Â " When the student is ready, Master appears ! " " Deciple can not choose a Guru, But Guru does " --- On Thu, 12/3/09, sd <salharmonica@ > wrote: But how do you know if the Guru is the right one? Or an ethical one, for that matter? , Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@ ...> wrote: > > Is a Guru Absolutely > Necessary? > > http://www.dlshq. org/download/ gurutattva. htm > > GURU TATTVA > By > SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA > A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION > > In spite of much prevalence of the > concept of a spiritual Guru, there is still a good deal of confusion, > misunderstanding, and skepticism in the public mind on this vital matter. > > Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Who is a > Satguru? How far can he help his Chela (disciple)? What are the duties of a > disciple? What is the meaning of Initiation (diksha)? > Want of clear-cut and definite answers to these and related questions often > impedes the spiritual progress of earnest aspirants. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 This is exactly right. We can try to choose our gurus, but in the end I think it's when the guru chooses you that you really progress on the path. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Sriram Dongre <sriramadongrewrote: > > > Kochuji says it often: > > " When the student is ready, Master appears ! " > " Deciple can not choose a Guru, But Guru does " > > > --- On Thu, 12/3/09, sd <salharmonica <salharmonica%40>> > wrote: > > sd <salharmonica <salharmonica%40>> > Re: Is a Guru absolutely necessary? > <%40> > Thursday, December 3, 2009, 11:09 PM > > > > But how do you know if the Guru is the right one? Or an ethical one, for > that matter? > > , Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar wrote: > > > > Is a Guru Absolutely > > Necessary? > > > > http://www.dlshq. org/download/ gurutattva. htm > > > > GURU TATTVA > > By > > SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA > > A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION > > > > In spite of much prevalence of the > > concept of a spiritual Guru, there is still a good deal of confusion, > > misunderstanding, and skepticism in the public mind on this vital matter. > > > > Is a Guru absolutely necessary? Who is a > > Satguru? How far can he help his Chela (disciple)? What are the duties of > a > > disciple? What is the meaning of Initiation (diksha)? > > Want of clear-cut and definite answers to these and related questions > often > > impedes the spiritual progress of earnest aspirants. > > > > We explore the answers > > to some of these questions here. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Namaskaram, Master appears to the student only?, then what happen to those teachers who teach the students before master appears to them? Sreekumar On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Sriram Dongre <sriramadongrewrote: > > > Kochuji says it often: > > " When the student is ready, Master appears ! " > " Deciple can not choose a Guru, But Guru does " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Sreekumar wrote: > > > Namaskaram, > > Master appears to the student only?, then what happen to those > teachers who > teach the students before master appears to them? > They realize that they have never been anything else but students themselves. Some disciples were deep into Dhyan meditation. Suddenly the one who was at it for few years, noticed the flag on the monastery fluttering and remarked " The flag is moving " . The next who had been into Dhyan Meditation for 10 years, sneered and said " No, it is the wind that is moving " . The third who had spent 23 years in the monastery, uttered......in a grave sotto voce ...... " It is neither the flag nor the wind ......it is the mind that is moving " . Pissed off hearing all this, the oldest who had been around for 60 years and claimed astral connection with the Himalayan Babaji(who himself had been around for 1500 years).. .... shouted ....... " Utter New Age nonsense. It is tongues that are moving " . A passing mystic who had observed all this drama, quietly walks up to the 60 year venerated Guru and slaps him across his face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Gurubusterji, why Is it necessary for that mystic to slap the 60 years old for not 'controling the tongue'? Sreekumar On 12/16/09, Gurubuster <fanatofida wrote: > > > > Sreekumar wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaram, > > > > Master appears to the student only?, then what happen to those > > teachers who > > teach the students before master appears to them? > > > > They realize that they have never been anything else but students > themselves. > > Some disciples were deep into Dhyan meditation. > > Suddenly the one who was at it for few years, noticed the flag on the > monastery fluttering > and remarked " The flag is moving " . > > The next who had been into Dhyan Meditation for 10 years, sneered and > said " No, it is the wind that is moving " . > > The third who had spent 23 years in the monastery, uttered......in a > grave sotto voce ...... " It is neither the flag nor the wind > .....it is the mind that is moving " . > > Pissed off hearing all this, the oldest who had been around for 60 years > and claimed astral connection with the Himalayan Babaji(who himself had > been around for 1500 years).. > > ... shouted ....... " Utter New Age nonsense. It is tongues that are moving " . > > A passing mystic who had observed all this drama, quietly walks up to > the 60 year venerated Guru > and slaps him across his face. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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