about the art of worship

[Guest guest]

As much as I love the discourse of this group, certain things give me pause.

There are members who come in with a lot of 'shoulds'. One 'should' not perform

a mantra a certain way, one 'should' not get a mantra off the Internet, one

'must' have a guru, etc. etc.

 

But for some of us, like myself, taking a year off for a pilgrimage and/or to

deeply study Sanskrit texts is not possible. Does this mean that I shouldn't be

'allowed' to chant mantras that I find off the internet if I feel they bring me

closer to God/dess. Who's to say what's right and what's wrong in how a person

performs worship?

 

One thing that I always admired about Hinduism is its openness- it embraces that

people can be Christian, Jewish, Buddhist etc. if that's what works for them.

But when it comes to Hindus talking amongst themselves, all these things come up

as to what's 'wrong' or 'right?'

 

For example, say you have a woman who's president of a company, caring for

parents, has a husband, and small children. If she wants God in her life, it's

probably just not possible for her to embark on a study of ancient religion and

Sanskrit on top of fulfilling her other responsibilities. So...is she supposed

to not do puja or recite mantras because they're off the internet, or she

doesn't fully grasp them.

 

I keep reading opposing views on mantra- some people say you shouldn't recite a

Laxmi mantra in a certain way because it will cause negativity, etc. Others say

the opposite. All these 'shoulds' create fear in people- and fear is what turns

us AWAY from God, not closer. This is why so many people have turned away from

organized religion- because they don't like the 'religious' ones telling them

they're 'wrong' and 'going to be punished.'

 

And the people who make such fear-inducing pronouncements are human themselves-

what do they know? Aren't they turned away from their own divine side by

pronoouncing such dire warnings of evil?

 

I've always been a bit disgusted by the Christian views of sin, and hell, and

being fallen, as I think it creates all the fear and anger that I've discussed

above.

 

Yet- I see Hindus who make similar negative pronouncements if someone doesn't

recite a mantra exactly so, etc. etc.

 

salma

[Guest guest]

You are confusing Hinduism with Tantra, I think. (For the sake of

discussion, let's pretend for the moment that there aren't problems with the

umbrella terms " Hinduism " and " Tantra " ).

 

Hinduism in general is a religion of devotion. One can perform puja at any

time, in any way. There are myriad ways of offering worship in India itself

which varies from region to region, incorporating local customs. Local

deities were incorporated into the umbrella of Brahminical Hinduism as were

local rituals and practices. This is because at its heart, Hinduism is a

religion that accepts all deities as forms of Brahman, Universal Oneness.

Ramakrishna was a perfect example of this, having embraced all religions

quite literally.

 

If you want to be a bhakta, there is no need to learn Sanskrit and all of

that. Just offer your sincere worship and learn what you can. Open your

heart. Mother accepts all of it, as we are Her children. The Kalikapurana

says that each person should worship according to their own custom. There

are great saints who have achieved moksha through pure devotion alone - look

at Mirabai, who worshipped Krishna in song and asked for nothing else. Or

Akka Mahadevi who sang for Shiva and put powerful priests in their place

when they criticized her for her lack of knowledge or what they saw as

improprietous behavior. What these amazing women saints teach us, among

other things, is that we can pray in English (or whatever our own language

is) if we don't have the ability to learn Sanskrit and the traditional

worship. It is the heart that matters, and how we live our lives.

 

Tantra, however, is another matter. It is a science of liberation. It

incorporates devotion, but it also has its own complex technologies that are

easily misunderstood and misused. It is not just something we can stumble

through, it is a system that requires refined and focused study. This is

where the guru comes in. There are many different schools of Tantra, many

different systems, each has its own requirements, its own meanings, its own

significance, its own origins. Each is powerful in its own way.

 

How does reciting a mantra cause negativity? Well, there are various views

on the subject. First, there are mantras that are meant to be recited in a

particular context (such as bija mantras), which require diksha

(initiation). Then there are mantras that can be recited by anyone without

diksha. On the website for my little mandir, we give guidance for reciting

devotional mantras that do not require diksha, but do not give mantras that

do require diksha. We don't share other things so easily. Shree Maa and

Swami Satyananda Saraswati have published books full of mantras and rituals

in their tradition, and also have lots of videos with instruction on the

meaning and performance of these mantras and rituals, with a philosophy of

opening up the knowledge to all so it can be practiced and preserved by

their true disciples. There are other places, as well, that give

instruction.

 

My own view is that receiving a mantra from a qualified guru gives the

deeper dimension of the mantra - the esoteric meaning, the full power, the

correct pronunciation. Reading a mantra on the internet or getting it from

an unqualified guru/teacher can give you false impressions and information,

if it is a mantra that requires diksha and close instruction on how to

implement it. For some this can lead to a false sense of progress and

superiority. This is like trying to drive a car in sand... the wheels are

spinning but instead of moving forward, you are becoming more entrenched in

the slippery sands of ego.

 

Tantra is also a system that relies on the guru-disciple relationship, and

always has. It is an ancient system that relies on this bond for

transmission not only of knowledge but of energy. When you get a mantra from

a qualified guru, the mantra carries with it the lineage and the prana of

the guru. That guru becomes responsible for your practice and your welfare.

When you get a mantra from the internet, it is empty of those things. It

becomes a tool for feeding the ego. There might be rare exceptions to this,

but we should never assume that we are the exception rather than the rule.

 

When I first started on this path, a teacher gave me this attitude, that

Tantra and any mantra can be learned by an individual, that the guru isn't

necessary, that we can basically do it ourselves and forge our own

tradition, merging together whatever we felt was good for us personally. I

think this person's heart was in the right place. But in the last many years

I have traveled a lot, learned Sanskrit, received enormous blessings, gone

to the heart of Tantra, and met my true gurus, and I have a profoundly

different view now.

 

I do sincerely believe that MAA is the true guru, and will lead us where we

need to go, eventually. And if we want to be purely bhaktas and try to

navigate the stream ourselves, there is nothing wrong with that. We should

offer whatever worship we are able, and that is beautiful.

 

BUT if we wish to be sadhakas, if we want to learn and use the ancient

technology of transformation that is Tantra, then we need a qualified guru

to show us the way, teach us the syllables, engage us in practice, and

correct our mistakes. Anything less is a shadow play of the ego.

 

If one does not have the time or energy or desire to find a guru, learn

Sanskrit mantras properly, practice diligently and daily, uphold the

parampara, etc., then one should not pursue Tantra. It is not for them. But

that doesn't mean they can't pursue liberation in some other way. Tantra is

a powerful and beautiful way, and for many of us here it is our calling and

we are passionate about it. But it is not for everyone, and certainly not

the ONLY way.

 

jai MA kamesvari

-kulasundari

 

 

Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir

www.kamakhyamandir.org

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:15 AM, sd <salharmonica wrote:

 

>

>

> As much as I love the discourse of this group, certain things give me

> pause. There are members who come in with a lot of 'shoulds'. One 'should'

> not perform a mantra a certain way, one 'should' not get a mantra off the

> Internet, one 'must' have a guru, etc. etc.

>

> But for some of us, like myself, taking a year off for a pilgrimage and/or

> to deeply study Sanskrit texts is not possible. Does this mean that I

> shouldn't be 'allowed' to chant mantras that I find off the internet if I

> feel they bring me closer to God/dess. Who's to say what's right and what's

> wrong in how a person performs worship?

>

> One thing that I always admired about Hinduism is its openness- it embraces

> that people can be Christian, Jewish, Buddhist etc. if that's what works for

> them. But when it comes to Hindus talking amongst themselves, all these

> things come up as to what's 'wrong' or 'right?'

>

> For example, say you have a woman who's president of a company, caring for

> parents, has a husband, and small children. If she wants God in her life,

> it's probably just not possible for her to embark on a study of ancient

> religion and Sanskrit on top of fulfilling her other responsibilities.

> So...is she supposed to not do puja or recite mantras because they're off

> the internet, or she doesn't fully grasp them.

>

> I keep reading opposing views on mantra- some people say you shouldn't

> recite a Laxmi mantra in a certain way because it will cause negativity,

> etc. Others say the opposite. All these 'shoulds' create fear in people- and

> fear is what turns us AWAY from God, not closer. This is why so many people

> have turned away from organized religion- because they don't like the

> 'religious' ones telling them they're 'wrong' and 'going to be punished.'

>

> And the people who make such fear-inducing pronouncements are human

> themselves- what do they know? Aren't they turned away from their own divine

> side by pronoouncing such dire warnings of evil?

>

> I've always been a bit disgusted by the Christian views of sin, and hell,

> and being fallen, as I think it creates all the fear and anger that I've

> discussed above.

>

> Yet- I see Hindus who make similar negative pronouncements if someone

> doesn't recite a mantra exactly so, etc. etc.

>

> salma

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

jai gurudev

 

 

om shivgoraksha

 

 

i agree with kulasundariji,

 

worshipping god goddess in our own way is different

from doing in a tantric practice.

 

devotion is also not tantra,being a devotee and being

a tantric or rather doing specific pooja-worship in a rituaslistic

way is both different but can also be merged.

 

easiest and best path is called samaya path in which

all pooja is dont mentally,without external aid.

 

u can visualise a shree yantra with mother residing

on it,or only just m,other inside the crown chakra

and u can simply chant her name or simply : OM SHAKTI

 

or any other chant u find comfortable.

 

it is not necessary to do beej mantra or tantric

mantra only.

 

one can offer mother fruits,food,do abhishekam etc

mentally and even partake prasadm mentally.

 

it is a simple teknik and very good teknik.

 

hinduism is very simple to follow,if u want to

and also very complicated to follow if u want to.

 

so u decide yr goal.

 

to gain salvation it is not necessary to know sanskrit,but it

is important to be devoted to maa and do good karma incl

devotion.

 

if u want to do tantric pooja etc,surely u can do it,

by going through proper channel and through proper

training etc incl learning sanskrit etc.

 

but if u cant learn sanskrit or do pooja externally

or dont have image or idol or even sriyantra u can

simply visualise and do needful and the results r real.

 

even asking for financial help etc for family etc is ok,

and even without doing tantric pooja u can get help,

by asking mother and also doing mental pooja.

 

bcoz maa herself is real.

 

she only sees our bhava-intent and focus.

 

 

 

om shakti

 

gopal

 

 

 

On 12/18/09, Kulasundari Devi <sundari wrote:

> You are confusing Hinduism with Tantra, I think. [....]

>

> Hinduism in general is a religion of devotion. One can perform puja at any

> time, in any way.

> [....]

> If you want to be a bhakta, there is no need to learn Sanskrit and all of

> that. Just offer your sincere worship and learn what you can.

> [...]

>

> Tantra, however, is another matter. It is a science of liberation. It

> incorporates devotion, but it also has its own complex technologies that are

> easily misunderstood and misused. It is not just something we can stumble

> through, it is a system that requires refined and focused study. This is

> where the guru comes in.

> [....]

> My own view is that receiving a mantra from a qualified guru gives the

> deeper dimension of the mantra - the esoteric meaning, the full power, the

> correct pronunciation. Reading a mantra on the internet or getting it from

> an unqualified guru/teacher can give you false impressions and information,

> if it is a mantra that requires diksha and close instruction on how to

> implement it. For some this can lead to a false sense of progress and

> superiority. This is like trying to drive a car in sand... the wheels are

> spinning but instead of moving forward, you are becoming more entrenched in

> the slippery sands of ego.

>

> Tantra is also a system that relies on the guru-disciple relationship, and

> always has. It is an ancient system that relies on this bond for

> transmission not only of knowledge but of energy. When you get a mantra from

> a qualified guru, the mantra carries with it the lineage and the prana of

> the guru. That guru becomes responsible for your practice and your welfare.

> When you get a mantra from the internet, it is empty of those things. It

> becomes a tool for feeding the ego. [....]

[Guest guest]

dear salma,

 

i agree with you. too many shoulds will mean that the majority of people cant

recite mantras.and despite my getting the mantras off a book , i got the

results of the mantras!

in love and light,

sarada.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with Sarada and Salma.

 

We definetely CAN recite mantras taken off books and the internet. Try

it sincerely and see the results for yourself.

 

Just waiting for a guru in this time and age is in my opinion

impractical for most. If you are in a position to find a good and

honest guru, its all the better. if like most you can't, then go to a

temple, bow before Lord Dakshinamurthy and take Him as your Guru.

 

God will guide you in your spritual path. Take the first step towards

him. And He will help you up in the spiritual ladder. You will

encounter people, books, dreams, spritual experiences that will all

help you in your spritual development. You will FEEL the results.

 

Om Shantih Shantih Shantih

 

Narayana

 

 

 

dear salma,

 

i agree with you. too many shoulds will mean that the majority of

people cant recite mantras.and despite my getting the mantras off a

book , i got the results of the mantras!

in love and light,

sarada.

[Guest guest]

 

Namaskaram NarayanJi,

 

Iam new member of Shakthi sadhana Groups, iam practising Yoga and meditation for

several times when ever i get, My querry is to all of our groups,

 

How to control Kamam / Desire - towards Women? Lustful look at womens? Thoughts

which were rapidly growing and wins over all my spritual sadhanas!

 

Kindly reply me with some guides,

 

Pranams,

 

 

P.Periyar selvan.

 

[Guest guest]

I fully agree with you regarding those imposing 'should' and 'should not'. I

dont think anywhere it is written that this kind of restrictions are

imposed. There is no need to chant mantras or practice any activities or

there is a need to learn sanskrit.. Chanting mantras create the right kind

of vibrations in our body that activate the right endocrine glands or the

stem cells in the bone marrow to produce the right chemical or gene or DNA

that it is intended to produce. Chanting without knowing the meaning is OK

but knowing the meaning helps to focus better.

Finally what is the ultimate purpose? Spiritual upliftment? For that we need

to know " who am I' . If we just followed the Gita and practice meditation we

should progress comfortably.

ma'am for your information, Hinduism is the only religion which is totally

individualistic and democratic with no restrictions whatsoever. the person

need to follow certain ways which when followed lead to the ultimate truth.

Just meditating with mind totally empty enables us to get answers to all our

questions. No need to ask anyone. You are the master of your own destiny .

Hinduism is a way of life to reach the ultimate truth that " God is the self

(jeevatma) sent to this earth to experience through the 5 senses by

paramatma " .Our soul or spirit cannot experience without this sensory body.

That life on earth just a temporary abode before we reach our final

destination -to merge with paramatma.

You mentioned 'fear' This emotion and 'anger' are the most dangerous enemies

to our spiritual progress. Others 'lust' 'greed' are also to be avoided. Our

natural state is SAT-CHIT-ANANDA existence , conscience and bliss. Just to

remove the smoke screen of maya to experience it.

Getting a good bagwat geeta with detailed explanations should be adequate.

If you had a proper Guru it would be better . I found 'Meditation " by Swami

Sukhobonanda was very simple and easy to follow the geeta verses. Hinduism

is the most simplest to practice . Please follow your own 'inner voice'

which is your conscience. Wish you a happy journey.

 

Jaya Guru Datta

 

Ramakrishnan

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:15 AM, sd <salharmonica wrote:

 

>

>

> As much as I love the discourse of this group, certain things give me

> pause. There are members who come in with a lot of 'shoulds'. One 'should'

> not perform a mantra a certain way, one 'should' not get a mantra off the

> Internet, one 'must' have a guru, etc. etc.

>

> But for some of us, like myself, taking a year off for a pilgrimage and/or

> to deeply study Sanskrit texts is not possible. Does this mean that I

> shouldn't be 'allowed' to chant mantras that I find off the internet if I

> feel they bring me closer to God/dess. Who's to say what's right and what's

> wrong in how a person performs worship?

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

While it is nice and sometimes even ideal to understand Sanskrit, I think it

needs said only ten percent of actual Hindus, if that, actually know it.

Another thing to keep in mind is some of our most famous saints were

illiterate at some point in their life. Sri Ramakrishna Pramadasa, if I am

not mistaken, did not touch Sanskrit...at least not at first. There were

also other saints who had similar experiences.

 

This said, this does not mean Sanskrit knowledge, mantra chanting, and so

forth are not needed. On the contrary, I believe they are still a

methodology valid for seeking what our divine selves so desire: moksha.

While some mantras might be okay for chanting without a Guru, some might

require initiation. Mantras we can do without a Guru remain limited though.

 

Like any science, the science of spirituality and liberation need guidance

on certain aspects. For instance, when one cooks, people can follow recipes

most of the time, but unless they really know how to connect with their

intuitive side, they might be limited on the recipes and abilities they can

perform as a cook (and I say might because I cannot judge -everyone-'s

experience). This is when an instructor, or in the case of spirituality and

liberation, an authentic Guru is needed to complete the training. People

overlook it, but intuition I think is a big part of sciences...especially

this kind of " science. "

 

Another example is learning languages. They might have things like Rosetta

Stone out there (which is an extremely expensive thing), and books and

software out there help with the process. And some of the programs help us

get -far-, even. However, it is always important to have authentic natives

of the language to critique your progress or teach you the nuances, the

" unwritten rules, " and so forth. In kind, spiritual attainment and moksha,

at some point, will require a Guru to do the same, regardless of how far we

get without one. The experiental component becomes important at some point,

even for the more concrete, " intellectual " (for lack of better words)

paths. Visceral components become significant. Because these components

require experience, what more is there than Guru? Of course, until a Guru

is found (or rather, finds you), faith becomes an important component on the

path.

 

I say this as someone who has yet to be initiated into a Shakta tradition.

However, I thought I would give my observations and my limited thoughts.

And of course, there is still that possibility that some may not need a

Guru, but probability is another matter and I am not sure if it is our place

to know this. When it comes to the less seen aspects of faith, such as

karma, spiritual needs, and so forth, an authentic Guru might be more

qualified than us to understand those aspects of ourselves.

 

Namaste.

 

Jai Maa.

 

 

Sincerely,

Arya/Christina

 

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Ramakrishnan Thimmaiyah <

ramadatta3 wrote:

 

>

>

> I fully agree with you regarding those imposing 'should' and 'should not'.

> I

> dont think anywhere it is written that this kind of restrictions are

> imposed. There is no need to chant mantras or practice any activities or

> there is a need to learn sanskrit.. Chanting mantras create the right kind

> of vibrations in our body that activate the right endocrine glands or the

> stem cells in the bone marrow to produce the right chemical or gene or DNA

> that it is intended to produce. Chanting without knowing the meaning is OK

> but knowing the meaning helps to focus better.