One reason why SYs must be their own masters, free from all external control

[Guest guest]

" With the exception of these brief experiments in free expression,

most Baha'is gain their knowledge of the wider Baha'i world

through institutional letters shared at Feast, or the NSA's

newspaper, The American Baha'i, both of which tend to be

cheerleading efforts to encourage members to meet the goals of the

current teaching plan and to financially support the

institutions' various building projects. [52] With such a history

of information control, it is no exaggeration to say that the spread

of the Internet in the 1990s had a staggering impact on the quality

of Baha'i discourse. However, while the Baha'i institutions

cannot control what ideas are expressed on online forums, they have

taken punitive action against individuals who are perceived as

threatening.

 

The Talisman email forum was created in 1994 by Professor John

Walbridge of the University of Indiana as an academic project. Many

participants were delighted at the kind of freewheeling, even

contentious, intellectual discussions that took place there and that

had hitherto been so rare in Baha'i community life.[53] However,

as in the earlier cases mentioned above, more conservative Baha'is

were disturbed by the opinions expressed there and turned in e-mails

to Baha'i authorities. In late 1995, the NSA contacted David

Langness, demanding that he make a retraction for a post he had made

in October comparing Baha'i judicial proceedings to " kangaroo

courts " and complaining about the secretive way these cases are

handled.[54] The primary focus of their concern was his statement

that the NSA had initially acted against dialogue without approval

from the House. Langness had been one of those sanctioned for his

association with dialogue and had been the primary author of A

Modest Proposal. The NSA threatened to take away Langness's

voting rights if he did not comply.[55] However, when Langness

eventually posted a retraction, it was deemed insufficient, and he

was sanctioned anyway.[56]

 

On a smaller, more specialized forum called Majnun, a Talisman

r was outraged at Langness's treatment and proposed an

organized protest. A responding message, somewhat snide and humorous

in tone, batted down the idea as unnecessary and unworkable within

the Baha'i system.[57] This email, later dubbed simply " the

Majnun post, " was accidentally sent to Talisman and was then

seized upon as evidence of a conspiracy.[58] This was the catalyst

for an investigation of Talisman's prominent posters in spring

1996.

 

Six people, including David Langness, were contacted by Counsellor

Stephen Birkland and, according to their accounts, were threatened

with being named covenant-breakers for their cyberspace activities.

[59] All of them were long-time Baha'is of the Baby Boom

generation, highly educated and intellectual, who had connections to

the LA study group and/or dialogue. Four of the six eventually

resigned their membership from the Baha'i Faith.

 

That these Baha'is were under intense psychological pressure is

evident from their stories. One example:

 

When I received a letter from a Baha'i Cont. Counsellor indicating

that I was under threat of being declared a Covenant-breaker, the

impact on me personally was less than on my family. My wife is a

Baha'i as are many of her family members, . . . The very real threat

of being declared a Covenant breaker meant my wife had to face the

decision of joining me as a heretic or divorcing me so that she

could maintain her relationships with her family and other lifelong

friends. Since [my wife] had no intention of divorcing me, the

choices then extended out to her family. Her sister would not refuse

to socialize with us so she would automatically be declared a

covenant breaker along with her husband and children. Many of my

close Baha'i friends would also be faced with the decision of

maintaining friendships or joining me as a heretic. The whole thing

is absurd and quite medieval. But it does raise the issue which you

point out so well; how anyone would want to belong to a group which

is willing to act this way and be so cruel is beyond me. That is why

I voluntarily left the religion. Not in order to escape punishment

but because the Baha'i community had become such an unhealthy place

spiritually. I was terribly saddened that my spiritual home of 25

years had turned into a prison and nightmare. [60]

 

David Langness also expressed concerns about the potential effect on

his family and reported being more afraid of the prospect of being

named a covenant-breaker than he had ever been during his experience

as a medic in Vietnam.[61]

 

If the intent of the Baha'i institutions was to silence dissent,

the effort backfired. One of those investigated, Professor Juan Cole

of the University of Michigan, became far more vocal and critical

after his resignation than he had been before. Freed from the

restraints imposed by Baha'i membership, he not only went public

with the story of how he had been coerced into renouncing his

religion, but also put previously-suppressed documents, such as A

Modest Proposal, on the web and wrote articles about the

administration's internal control mechanisms.[62] It is fair to

say that, while conservative Baha'is continue to defend the

administration's actions, the crackdown created more online

critics than it silenced. . . .

 

Outside the world of Baha'i cyberspace, the information available

to adherents is still controlled, and these conflicts have garnered

little attention from the non-Baha'i media.[68] Newcomers to

Baha'i forums online frequently express shock and dismay at the

often strident criticisms leveled at the Baha'i administration;

others are appalled at the punitive actions taken against their co-

religionists in what they had always believed to be a tolerant

faith. Those disturbed by the actions of the UHJ can be thrown into

a crisis of faith where they either have to adjust their values to

find such harsh measures acceptable or abandon belief in

Baha'u'llah. A few find the nontraditional path where

Baha'u'llah is still the center of their spiritual focus, but

infallibility of the UHJ is seen as limited or even nonexistent.

 

While the Baha'i Faith is not a cult, it does have an

authoritarian structure and conformist culture that many of those

attracted to the liberal ideals and inspiring writings of

Baha'u'llah find intolerably restrictive. It remains to be

seen whether the new openness afforded by Internet discourse will

push the administration towards the tolerant ideals contained in its

scriptures or cause it to retreat ever further into defensive fear. "

 

http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , vonda turner <vst333>

wrote:

>

> What is it to be your own master?

>

 

Dear all,

 

From the answers to this deep question will the very survival of

Sahaja Yoga depend. Please contribute so that we can all learn,

including more experienced SYs, senior SYs and even leaders:

 

" Tell me. I'll forget. Show me, I may remember. But involve me

and I'll understand. " (Chinese proverb)

 

warmest regards,

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

I'm not entirely sure why an SY group is spending so much time on the

Baha'is, but certainly the increasingly authoritarian nature of the

Baha'i religion does provide an example of what might go wrong in

Sahaja Yoga in future centuries if the yogis were not to use

vibrational awareness to validate the decisions of their leaders.

 

btw, Professor Juan Cole is heavily involved with the H-Bahai email

list and edits the very extensive online library of Baha'i primary

and secondary sources available through H-Net.

 

Professor Cole has a diverse range of interests in Middle East

studies, including Islam. I always find his writings stimulating and

worth reading. His personal website is worth a visit: www.juancole.com

 

John

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

SYs must ascertain the Truth for themselves, directly. They have to

be both master and the pupil. This Truth can only be realized by the

guidance of the Inner Guru, the Adi Shakti in the Sahasrara and the

deities on the chakars. Then there is our own Mother Kundalini. With

so many infallible Divine Teachers within why must i ever seek or

bow to any external authority?

 

Man's own personal will, his free will, is a feeble and

insignificant force when compared to the Will of the Divine. When

you are beholden to the Divine, when you are inwardly awakened

enough to be attuned to that Will, then it is quite natural that

your own will, your personal likes and dislikes, and your limited

faculties of reason and analysis are overpowered and subdued by a

greater will, a Cosmic Will. If you have awakened sufficient

humility to surrender your willfulness, the Divine will guide you on

the inner path.

 

Shri Mataji has always told us to be our own masters, and She has

severely curtailed the powers of leaders. In fact leaders are there

just to co-ordinate and organize. Even they have to ask Shri Mataji

directions.

 

SYs should be cautioned that once She leaves there may be a power

struggle. Even if the transition is peaceful appointed leaders may

introduce policies and restrictions on Her devotees, some of which

will be resented and challenged. The Bahais, as my post #215

confirms, are facing the same problems that have plagued all

religious organization for millennia. And i mean ALL, without ANY

exclusion. Sahaja Yoga will be no exception unless all Her devotees

are left to be masters of their own destinies without any external

control. All control must be from within, the complete surrender to

the Adi Shakti within to guide, teach, protect and heal.

 

There has been a suggestion that we SYs use our vibratory awareness.

(The Bahais, like the believers of various traditions, have never

experienced this vibratory awareness or Breeze of God). i know for a

fact that such awareness is at times flawed by the mental process,

the ego and the super-ego. There have been cases when SYs lost small

fortunes seeking wealth through vibrations. A typical self-

assurance: " Yes, the vibrations told me to invest in this pyramid

scheme. " Just common sense would have been sufficient to stay away

from these fraudulent schemes.

 

Vibratory awareness is a perfect science way beyond anything SYs

know. However it if far from being easily mastered by all, indeed by

any. Even leaders have not reached that state of consciousness. If

they had harnessed the vibratory awareness, then there would have

been no need to consult Shri Mataji on any issue whatsoever.

 

So what happens if, say, 25 years from now, a so-called Sahaja Yoga

Supreme Council formed after Shri Mataji has left decides that this

forum must cease with immediate effect? The reasoning of our

leaders: After much deliberation and cross-checking of vibratory

awareness the Council members have reached an unanimous decision

that the shriadishakti forum encourages dangerous dissenting

views which pose a danger to the spread of Sahaja Yoga. The penalty

for non-compliance: All participating members who defy this decree

and continue to post will be thrown out of Sahaja Yoga.

 

My vibratory awareness or those of other rebellious free thinkers

will amount to nothing as the vibratory awareness of the elite

Council members overrules every other contradictory consciousness

under section 29 subsection 3b of the SYSC. Most members will flee

for fear of expulsion, a few the gruesome nightmare of eternal

damnation.

 

Am i stretching the truth a bit too far? Definitely not. Vonda is

but just a victim of how power corrupts and fear makes life hell on

earth itself for any nonconformist. The Catholic Church still

excommunicates. Muslims issue fatwas. Sikhs have their hukumnama.

Every organization want to control the minds of their members.

 

Sahaja Yoga must not become another false religion. The only way to

ensure this is to allow all Her devotees to be their own masters

from within through meditation and introspection. i don't need no

leader for anything when i have the Adi Shakti, the Mother

Kundalini, the Divine Deities and the Breeze of God to guide me.

Aren't they enough?

 

regards to all,

 

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh

<adishakti_org> " <adishakti_org> wrote:

> shriadishakti , vonda turner <vst333>

> wrote:

> >

> > What is it to be your own master?

> >

>

> Dear all,

>

> From the answers to this deep question will the very survival of

> Sahaja Yoga depend. Please contribute so that we can all learn,

> including more experienced SYs, senior SYs and even leaders:

>

> " Tell me. I'll forget. Show me, I may remember. But involve me

> and I'll understand. " (Chinese proverb)

>

> warmest regards,

>

>

> jagbir

 

 

Dear Jagbir,

Relax. This is the incarnation of Sri Adi Shakti we are

talking about. Not any of the forerunners,announcers, stage-setter

incarnations. This is the Real Event where the Creatrix Herself has

come on the Earth to put an end to the imbalances once and for all.

Can't you see that the role of " leaders " is already a comic play?

The real work of Sahaja Yoga is taking place on another plane. And

that term itself may soon become old fashioned - it became Vishva

Nirmala Dharma some years ago, and the old name is still used

because it is convenient the letterheads and advertising etc. all

being in place, this is now the religion (another old fashioned and

inappropriate word,) of Absolute Truth.

You have to take into account the aspect of Sri Kalki who will

leave no vestiges of the shadows you talk about.

We are establishing The Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. Totally. Only

the Meek and the Pure in Heart will live to inherit the Earth.

This is the " mastery " (another word of dubious value) which Lord

Jesus described. Only those who are humble, becoming like little

Children. NO ONE ELSE.

Only such as these can enter. Because only such people have

absolute heartfelt connection with Our Mother through their own

individual kundalinis.

We are entering into the Age of the Mother so there will be no

comparison with the former ages. Stories will be told about what it

was like now and everyone will have difficulty comprehending our

fears and obstacles.

Sri Mataji being Mahamaya appears to be working it out through the

present apparent format. This is one of Her best Illusions. To let

the men and even some " women " have the illusion of doing something

important. She has often said " it is a Myth " but people take that

as a figure of speech. Doesn't Sri Mataji always tell us the truth?

Feeling vibrations, as you point out is another play. The only

reason we need to feel vibrations is to correct ourselves.

Sri Mataji has already established the foundations of the New Age,

Satya Yuga, the Age of Truth. She has been working it out through

the hearts, and I dare to say mostly those hearts are not masculine

but before the final transformation takes place many men will

discover the secret in themselves, too.

People talk about surrender as if it is something " I can DO " .

If I may use an example from my own experience to illustrate:

Once after travelling for hours on a bus through dusty roads in

India we arrived at a programme where Sri Mataji was being welcomed

with a small concert and a dear little girl was singing in such a

high effortless voice, I was moved to say in my heart " Sri Mataji,

next lifetime ...if I could sing like that it would be such a

blessing "

Now we have to be careful what we desire because the next instant

I was hauled from my anonymous seat and pushed to the stage by the

then " leader " who ignored my protest that I had lost my voice from

singing for hours on a dusty bus and ordered me to sing

Handel's " Where e'er You Walk " . I am not a trained singer and had

learned this song at high school.

Feeling very uncomfortable I started to sing into the microphone

and a horrible croak came out. I closed my eyes and prayed " Sri

Mataji You do this " Then a beautiful voice started singing and I was

just enjoying and hearing as if a teacher inside me was telling to

me " Breathe here, now, hold this note... " and so on but this Lyndal

was not doing it. I became the instrument. I became the audience to

the sound of the song as if hearing it for the first time.

It was the experience I needed to show me what surrender really

is. I am a slow learner and still need a few more lessons I know but

I am sure Sri Mataji can fulfill Her promise " to give this Earth

it's meaning to itself. "

All this heartburning about power struggles which may take place

after Sri Mataji leaves is utter nonsense. They may well take

place. So What? Sri Mataji has only needed to maintain a physical

appearance for some time to bring our attention to our Spirit. When

She discards this body She will be absolutely one with us.

I feel the same way about this as I do about " Green " party

candidates. They can be excused because they don't Know the Mother

Earth is Sri Bhoomi Devi, the Kundalini of the Universe. So they

think they have to fix Her beacause although She " May be

intelligent " they think they are more intelligent..

Of course we may have to witness some more absurdities. But I must

confess I enjoy a good drama.

There was some previous discussion about " throwing out " where I

tried to explain that the real collective exists in a realm where

only the subtle forces can throw people out and only because they

are not really " in " anyway.

The other collective of half baked and quarter baked and one

eighth baked contains a few rare gems of real sahaja yogis for the

continuity. The bulk of them are just there for roughage to aid our

digestion.

with love from Lyndal.

[Guest guest]

Dear Aunty Lyndal,

 

I do so enjoy reading your posts! You are so very wise, i truely

admire your depth...you are absolutely correct.

Thank you again

from my heart,

ishmael

[Guest guest]

Being a newcomer here, let me introduce myself : I'm Devarshi

from

France, and once for all I implore your forgiveness for my poor

english writing.

 

Understanding Jagbir's worries about the possible power struggles

in

the future of SY, I also mostly agree with Lyndal's answer, but

it

reminds me the early christians after the end of Christ's earthly

mission. Many among them kept thinking that the " End of

times " , the

return of Christ in his Glory and the Resurrection would happen very

soon. Then why worry about Paul's takeover ? We all know what

happened next centuries.

 

There is also in Lyndal's post a kind of " elitism " , at

least in the

figures, that I don't follow.

 

So, yes, " relax " , but it's still good to keep our mind

alert. By the

way, wether this kind of " forum " is going to be a help or a

nuisance

is also a question that needs to be kept in mind, isn't it ?

 

Love to all,

 

Devarshi

 

I tried to type hereunder part of the Sahasrara 97 Puja talk, that

recently fed my meditation and is somehow related to the topic of

this thread.

 

 

Sahasrara 97, Cabella. (Truth beyond Dharma)

 

« (..) By [the opening of Sahasrara], what you have achieved, we

have to see it.

 

First of all, when the Kundalini rises, She goes to your void, where

is your Dharma, and your Dharma gets established, around the Nabhi

Chakra. Your Dharma gets established which is your innate, pure,

universal religion. It's established, but then the Kundalini

rises

higher.

 

Despite the establishment of the Dharma, we start becoming little

bit aloof from other's societies, because we find

they're " adharmis " : they have no Dharma. Also, I think,

we are

affraid that we might get caught up with their adharmas. So, at that

stage, we don't want to cross the limits of Sahaja Yoga : we want

to

keep to Sahaja Yogis, to Sahaja Yoga programs, and to our personal

sahjaj life. Of course, it's important. Because first this Chakra

must be fully nourished, [that] actually moves round the Nabhi

Chakra, we know as Swadishtana. This Swadishtan Chakra is in a way

very important, because it supplies energy to the brain.

 

So, when Dharma is established, the subtle energy pushes through the

Kundalini more energy for the Sahasrara, and also the energy for

Dharma, which was in the Swadishtana, also starts flowing with it.

It crosses over and starts rising in the Sahasrara. Till then, we

are – I would say – not yet full Sahaja Yogis.

 

Because, one can become fanatic about Sahaja Yoga. I've seen

people

who are so fanatic that they cannot even meet people who are not

Sahaja Yogis. They cannot even talk to people who are not Sahaja

Yogis, and all the time they are frightened of meeting people who

are not Sahaja Yogis. Of course, you need not meet people who are

evil, people who are against Sahaja Yoga, who talk against it, but

those who are seeking the thruth, it is our duty that we have to go

to them.

 

So, when it reaches the state where it is estalished in the brain,

that time we go beyond Dharma. " Dharmateet " , we become beyond

Dharma : Dharma becomes part and parcel of our being. We cannot lose

it. Sahaj Dharma becomes within us, a part and parcel, which is a

very great achievement, because then, you don't have to do any

rituals, you don't have to worry about meeting other people, you

don't have to worry that your vibrations will be harmed. Then you

don't catch from anyone. You don't catch also other negative

forces.

No one can harm you.

 

That I call as the competion of your Shraddha. That ime Sahasrara is

so fully enlightened, that you become Dharma [...story of Christ and

the adultery lady...].

 

He is a religious man : He should also put stones on her, but He was

standing on truth. That's exactly what happens to you when it is

established in Sahasrara : that you stand on Truth. There's a

little difference in Dharma and in Truth. A Dharma person might

become too dharmic, illogically dharmic and go to the right or to

the left. A dharmic person might think he is a superior person to

others. That " why should he try to save anybody else ? Let them go to

hell ! Who cares ? " This kind of an attitude can come in a person

who is dharmic.

 

Also I've seen some Sahaja Yogis who start new methods in Sahaja

Yoga. " You do like this so it will be alright, you do like that

so

it will be alright. Because they are not stagnated at the point of

Dharma, so they start telling people that you do this way, do that

way. But when you rise to the point of truth, then you don't do

any

rituals, you don't need any rituals. You're not bothered.

Because

you are in Dharma, and here you are standing on the Truth. And Truth

is much greater than Dharma.

 

For example, a person who is standing on Truth doesn't care for

any

absurd idea about religion, even about Sahaja religion. He

doesn't

care. After all " This is Sahaja, this is not Sahaja... " He

goes

beyond, in the sens he sees a global Truth within himself, he sees

the Truth which is all pervading. Not only " sees " , but he

knows and

he feels, and he is in that Truth.

 

So, when Dharma flowers into Truth, it's a very beautiful

happening,

and that should happen to all of you. (...)

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " changdev65 <savita@w...> "

<savita@w...> wrote:

>

By the > way, wether this kind of " forum " is going to be a help or a

> nuisance

> is also a question that needs to be kept in mind, isn't it ?

>

 

Dear Changdev,

 

Jai Shri Mataji!

 

Thank you for Shri Mataji's talk which is relevant to my post. And

your English is more understandable than tolerable.

 

i had my self-realization in December 1993 and underwent an

incredible spiritual transformation from an 'animal' to human. There

was overflowing ecstasy and intoxicating bliss as the drizzle of

revelation turned in a torrential deluge. My heart expanded to feel

the pains and sorrow of humanity. i humbled myself at the infinite

grandeur of the Divine and thanked Shri Ganesha for awakening me

from that deep slumber that was Kali Yuga. There are still no words

for the Adi Shakti and to repay the gratitude i have asked Her to

grant me just one more boon: That i be for all eternity remain

prostrated at Her Lotus Feet, forever protected by Her ........

and for all eternity saved from the deepest cesspool of humanity

that i may fall.

 

Then with a heart bursting with Joy i went to meet Her devotees. i

was shocked by some of them: the ignorance, arrogance, endless

ritualism, imaginary fears, pettiness, pretensions harmony and lack

of conviction. Years of experience left me with pain and sorrow and

disbelief.

 

i was thus thoroughly convinced that the failure of Sahaja Yoga to

spread had nothing to do with Shri Mataji and Her Message to

humanity. It did not take me long to realize that Her foot-soldiers

were far from accomplishing the task demanded of such an Incarnation.

 

So instead of trying to find out what so good about Sahaja Yoga, i

went about checking what was wrong with it. The only way was to

listen to the grievances of those critical of Sahaja Yoga, including

lies and half-truths.

 

But there was no SY willing to discuss anything against Sahaja Yoga.

(The only other forum i know vets all answers from SYs, and states

that nothing against Sahaja Yoga will be entertained.) There is a

sort of fanatical mindset that is not willing to listen to any

criticism, even turning hostile and ostracizing those who dare

question. There is no venue for frank discussions, as if only

coordinators and leaders are endowned with wisdom and good

judgment.

 

This forum does exactly what is regarded as taboo, even heretical.

It examines issues that SYs must face, no matter how bitter or

controversial. If we are shouting ourselves hoarse about Dharma and

Truth then we must be prepared to face criticism and provide honest

answers. There must be transparency.

 

But the main aim of this forum, which is so clearly spelled out, is

to openly declare Shri Mataji's Message of the Last Judgment.

 

And if any SY honestly believes that Sahaja Yoga is actually the

Message of the Last Judgment delivered by the Adi Shakti, then, for

heaven's sake, stand up and declared it. Don't hoodwink seekers

with 'stress management' and 'peace of mind' offers. Stop lying!

Stop this hypocrisy! Stop this deception! Stop in the name of God

Almighty and tell the plain Truth that it is the Last Judgment!

 

 

warmest regards,

 

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir,

 

Thanks for your kind answer, and for not overeacting to my sly

provocation...

 

Following your post's introduction I guess you may like to know some

more about my own Sahaja history, for what it's worth. Here's the

shortest I can do :

 

My first revelation of Param Chaytania through the easy path drawn

by Shri Mataji happened by the end of 1987. Since then, with ups and

downs, I've been trying to understand what it's all about !

 

I can understand your frustrations, and I enjoyed the confidence and

the faith expressed in your site. That " some " in a collectivity

would not fit your ideals is normal. (Do you fit your own ideal ? I

certainly don't.)

 

All along those years I've witnessed many trajectories around my

own, and my appreciation of some trajectories have varied just as I

was myself moving. Leaders, ex-leaders ; opponents, ex-opponents ;

yogi(ni)s, ex-yogi(ni)s... Nothing really stable. In the midst I

still consider that things have really improved in me as in the

collective : mostly, the " in " and " out " stories are much less

prevalent nowdays, the plurality of views and feelings is much more

respected.

 

One of the things I learned is that, if Param Chaytania means

something (and this might be the minimum common ground for all

Sahajis) then no blame could be put on anything else than the

collective. If Param Chaytania is effective, then one man or one

woman, however powerful, in whichever position, cannot do any harm

among hundreds of balanced people with their Kundalini awakened. The

failure of some is the failure of all, " The ultimate jugement " .

 

 

Besides all this, there is a down to earth organization that

provides the material structures for any collective to move with. It

is not the highest goal, and sometimes the confusion is still huge,

allowing people that are just good organizers to claim spiritual

influence. But again who's their public? Should awakened Kundalinis

bother about influence ?

 

So, the next steps in the movement of Sahaja community are still

very open. Your site, and, why not, this forum may help. But I keep

thinking the question I raised should always remain present in our

minds.

 

Words and arguments are not very helpful, so please try to

interprete mine with sympathy.

 

With love,

 

Devarshi

 

Answer to : " jagbir singh <adishakti_org> "

<adishakti_org>

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:42 pm

Re: One reason why SYs must be their own masters, free

from all external control

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh

<adishakti_org> " <adishakti_org> wrote:

> shriadishakti , " changdev65 <savita@w...> "

> <savita@w...> wrote:

> >

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " changdev65 <savita@w...> "

<savita@w...> wrote:

>

> So, the next steps in the movement of Sahaja community are still

> very open. Your site, and, why not, this forum may help. But I

> keep thinking the question I raised should always remain present

> in our minds.

>

> Words and arguments are not very helpful, so please try to

> interprete mine with sympathy.

>

 

 

Dear Devarshi and all,

 

Shri Mataji, after healing my body and mind for the last few years,

is now working on spiritual transformation which i believe will take

a lifetime. Therefore i, like you, am still not my own ideal and

have a long way to go.

 

But on what ground am i standing? i quote Hinduism In A Nutshell

(www.vedanta-seattle.org):

 

" Hinduism is one of the world's major religions. It is also one

of the most ancient religions in the world. There are over 720

million Hindus today. Most live in India, although a sizable

population live in Nepal, Mauritius, Fiji, South Africa, Sri Lanka,

Guyana, Indonesia (Bali) and a few other countries.

 

The ancient sages of India who discovered the spiritual truths that

constitute the basic scriptures of Hinduism preferred to remain

anonymous. Therefore, Hinduism does not have a known founder. Those

scriptures are called the Vedas, which means knowledge.

 

SCOPE FOR REASON AND FAITH IN HINDUISM

 

Hindus are allowed to ask sincere questions or make honest inquiries

about their religion. If they have doubts, they can express them

without any fear. Such questioning is never considered sacrilegious.

All honest and sincere questions are addressed by Hinduism and

rational answers given. From this rational inquiry Hinduism has been

able to develop and accommodate in it six major systems of

philosophy. While Hinduism encourages faith in its holy scriptures,

it also gives full scope to reason out the truths contained in them.

 

IMPORTANCE OF SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE

 

Knowledge derived from genuine spiritual experience is given the

utmost importance. One scripture says that immortality, the ultimate

spiritual goal of Hinduism, cannot be achieved by studying the

scriptures alone. It has to be experienced. Experiential spiritual

knowledge is given much more importance than mere theoretical

knowledge. "

 

Devarshi, maybe this will answer your questioning the wisdom of this

forum, the question that " should always remain present in our minds. "

 

We are not playing with words or even arguing. Vonda just found out

what is the Last Judgment for the first time in her life. Princess

can now differentiate between disassociation and detachment. Ishmael

is finally able to heal from a painful past. Lyndal is strengthened

with the faith that there are others like her for whom " questioning

is never considered sacrilegious. " i am learning from what others,

including you have to say.

 

What is posted comes from within with words that cannot be otherwise

spoken in public. Hearts are healed, the mind infused with

enlightened consciousness, and spirit uplifted to rise without fear.

The tide lifts all boats, so to speak.

 

In my meditation and introspection i came to understand

that 'collective' means to expand and embrace all humanity, not just

SYs who gather very Sunday evening. i also become conscious that i

should never associate myself with the falsehood of 'stress

management' and 'peace of mind'. i also came to know that there are

millions of great souls out there who will surrender to the call of

the Last Judgment and Resurrection.

 

In short i finally understood what it is to become my own master and

the " Knowledge derived from genuine spiritual experience is given

the utmost importance. " The only 'fear' in my heart are the negative

forces who oppose me. Contrary to what one may think these negative

forces are not ayatollahs with death fatwas. These negative forces

are those who continue supressing Shri Mataji's declaration:

 

" Tell all the nations and tell all the people all over the Great

Message that the Time of Resurrection is here. Now! At this time and

that you are capable of doing it. "

 

That was 20 years ago. Now Shri Mataji does not say so because there

are just too many who cringe and fear a huge media attack on Sahaja

Yoga.

 

i was told to close this site because anti-SY forces will use

it to attack the Adi Shakti. i came to know that it was Simon D.

Montford and his followers. This is the greatest insult to my Divine

Mother that i have ever heard from SYs. i am still ashamed that Shri

Mataji has such cowards for devotees.

 

Stress management is just so cool and trendy for them .............

........ and shamelessly deceitful

 

 

peace to all,

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh

<adishakti_org> " <adishakti_org> wrote:

 

 

>

> i was told to close this site because anti-SY forces will use

> it to attack the Adi Shakti.

>

 

Dear all,

 

Just to clarify that it was in December 1999 that i was told to do

so. Now more than three years have passed and all fears have proved

to be unfouned. In fact ex-prophet Simon and his followers take

pains not to mention anything about www.adishakti.org and www.al-

qiyamah.org and continue to tell others that SYs hide facts from

public.

 

These two sites leave no cause for complain from any party as

everything that Shri Mataji has revealed for humanity is spelled in

black and white. It is up to us to uphold that Truth without any fear

whatsoever.

 

 

love to all,

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir (and all),

 

Trying to read your post in details and edit parts that I whished to

reply to, I find that it is simply not acceptable to follow a

discussion on those lines.

 

I would never accept such kind of arguments from anyone in SY and

was never opposed such a one-minded view in all those years.

 

Opposite to what you pretend (and whatever truly painful events you

had to face) you are a living proof that SY has

no means (nor even will) to suppress any individual's view, but by

dissociating from it when it becomes invading.

 

I feel like confidence and faith, without some other elementary

qualities create a frame of mind far beyond my understanding.

Call me a fool or a coward; consider that I couldn't face

your " challenges " , but be sure that I don't belong to the " Church of

the Last Jugement " .

 

By extending a mere concept's value to make it your absolute

criterion, I think you are moving away from the universal reality

that, to me, is the actual and ultimate jugement.

 

I really apologize to say things that way. Be sure again that I have

nothing to do with any " officials " , so, please, don't imagine this

post could hide any kind of " threat " .

 

It is just a matter of self-respect for me, but I can't ignore it.

 

With love

 

Devarshi

 

 

<<This

message must be suppressed by all means, wittingly or unwittingly.>>

 

<< There has been no

reaction from the public after more than 100,000 visitors and what

is written is at times very controversial.>>

 

<<Devarshi, i am still waiting for them to approach me>>

 

<<The Last Judgment and Paul meet this requirement.

Do not use a broad brush to paint. Do not use a few words to tell a

story. >>

 

 

<<Have you ever

imagined such a scenario where, say, the media attacks Shri Mataji

with banner headlines: " False Guru declares Last Judgment! " )>>

 

<< But

what has been attacked? Human failings have been attacked. Human

mistakes have been exposed.>>

 

<<Why is there

this huge chasm of conflicting minds, your fear of universal

condemnation and my faith of universal acceptance?>>

 

<< Cowards are those who do not have the

conviction to tell others that it is the Last Judgment and suppress

the very heart and soul of Sahaja Yoga. Not only that but they also

put apprehension and fear into those who try. If you, Devarshi, try

to explain subtly that i should be very much more cautious then you

are a coward.>>

 

<<But that is exactly

what i will keep doing, no matter what the consequences>>

 

 

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

> shriadishakti , " changdev65 "

<changdev65>

> wrote:

 

 

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

> shriadishakti , " changdev65 "

<changdev65>

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " changdev65 " <changdev65>

wrote:

>

> I feel like confidence and faith, without some other elementary

> qualities create a frame of mind far beyond my understanding.

> Call me a fool or a coward; consider that I couldn't face

> your " challenges " , but be sure that I don't belong to the " Church

> of the Last Jugement " .

>

 

 

Dear Devarshi,

 

The followers of the Church of the Last Judgment are of this mindset.

 

" It may be about six thousand years ago: and since that period the

history of man is one unbroken page of wickedness and infidelity.

Heaven once, in anger, nearly extirpated our race; and once, in

mercy, forgave us. Yet, since, the earth is stained with guilt red

as scarlet; and the patience of a God — patience infinite —

can alone bear it. Who can tell the amount of the crime of even one

city for one day? But who can conceive the infinite guilt of all

peoples, of all nations, and all ages, ascending and accumulating

before God's throne since the beginning? God is great in power,

great in goodness, great in mercy, great in wisdom; but he is more

than great in patience, to bear the congregated offenses of

countless millions, daily, hourly, provoking his anger and opposing

his will.  

 

But, as the hour of man's creation and man's redemption was arranged

by God, and in due time occurred, so the moment for man's total

extinction on earth is approaching, and when the time written in the

records of heaven shall have arrived, that unerring decree will be

executed. By one word he made this world; by one word he can destroy

it. By one stroke of his omnipotent pencil he drew the present

picture of creation; by one dash of the same brush he can blot it

out again and expunge all the work of the skies. Who can limit his

power? In one second be can reduce all things to their original

chaos, and live again as he did before creation began. He can, when

he pleases, destroy all things — the soul excepted. The soul he

cannot annihilate. He made the world himself — of course, he can

himself destroy it. But Christ is the redeemer of the soul, and,

therefore, its immortal existence is as indestructible as the

eternity of God. Redemption is a contract between the Father and the

Son. That contract cannot be broken without ignoring the Cross.

Hence, while God is at liberty to blot out his own creation, he

cannot annihilate the work purchased with the blood of Christ.

 

Hence, in the coming wreck, the soul cannot be destroyed. And this

is the idea that renders that awful hour a source of joy unlimited

to the blessed, and of terrors unspeakable to the wicked. Yet

although no one can tell when this fatal day will arrive, still it

may be fairly presumed to be at hand, when Christ's passion will be

disregarded on earth; when vice will so predominate over virtue that

the worship of God may be said to cease; when the destruction of the

earth will be a mercy, a duty of justice which God owes to his own

character and to the eternal laws of his kingdom. When this time

shall have arrived, we may fairly expect the day of the general

judgment . . . .  Who can paint Omnipotent power pulling down

firmaments, and suns, and stars, and moons: his will reversing his

former creation; the earth trembling in desolation? How minutely

graphic is Christ in this terrible description; and have you noticed

his last words, where he says: " Have I not foretold all to you? "

This single phrase is worth the entire history; since it stamps the

terrors of this day with the certitude of any other truth of faith,

any other fact of the Gospel.  

 

St. Mark continues to detail the order of this terrible hour. Terror

will follow on terror; curse upon curse, «till men will fall away

with fear.» The sun being not quite extinguished, fatal gloom will

be spread over all things like a veil over the face of the dead:

terrific signs are seen in the heavens, and all things announce that

time is at an end. St. John says, that before God pronounces the

final word there is silence in heaven; and voices are heard in the

air, on the water, and on the earth. At length the skies open and he

pours out the first vial of his anger. And the end is come. God

speaks the command; and all nature trembles as if in agony. The seas

swell, and boil, and rise, and lash the skies. The mountains nod and

sink, and the poles collapse. The lightnings flash, and the moaning

tempests sweep over the furious deep, piling up ocean upon ocean on

the trembling globe. The earth reels in convulsion, and the whole

frame of creation struggles.  

 

A mighty conflagration bursts from the melting earth, rages like a

hurricane roundabout, devouring all things in its storm and flood of

fire, consuming the crumbling wreck of the condemned world. The

heavens become terrible, as the kindling earth and seas show their

overwhelming flashes on the crimson skies. The sun muffled, the moon

black, the stars fallen, floating masses like clouds of blood sweep

the skies in circling fury. The Omnipotence which, in the beginning

of time, formed all creation, is now concentrated in a point; and,

as it were, intensifies the infinity of his wrath, till his anger

can swell no higher; and his voice is heard like thunder in the

distance. With what eloquent terror does the Savior paint this scene

in his own words: «Men fainting away with fear, running in wild

distraction, calling on the ground to open and swallow them, and the

rocks to fall on them and hide them from the face of the Lord.»

The earth on fire: the skies faded: the sun and the stars darkened

or extinguished: mankind burning, dying: the angry voice of God

coming to judge the world. "

 

The followers of the Adi Shakti Shri Nirmala Devi are experiencing

the same Last Judgment in Sat (Truth) Chit (Consciousness) Anand

(Bliss).

 

" Though you can understand that Mother's Love makes it very easy for

you to get to your Realization and that the whole story of Last

Judgment — which looks such a horrifying experience — has

been made very beautiful, and very tender, and delicate, and does

not disturb you. "

 

It is an extremely difficult and immense task to erase 2000 years of

terror and frightening falsehood regarding the Last Judgment and

enlighten Christians that it is, on the contrary, " very beautiful,

and very tender, and delicate, and does not disturb you. "

 

Am i crying " wolf " ?

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

>

> Dear Devarshi and all,

>

> You should know that Shri Mataji is explaining about the Agnya

> Chakra which people cannot bear, and this has nothing to do with

> the Last Judgment. The Agnya Chakra is a strong speech. A single

> quote says that " on this chakra resides the great incarnation of

> our Lord, Jesus Christ. In our Indian Shastras, he is called as

> Mahavishnu, the son of Radha ji. " Shri Mataji turns Christianity

> on its head by revealing about Paul. (i prefer others to read the

> whole speech to understand how controversial it will be to

> neophytes.)

>

 

" So these realised souls are all over and they are helping. They

never enter into anybody, they never trouble you, they guide you to

the proper lines. They bring their Angels and they help you to come

to the right path, to the right conclusions. And they never try to

possess you, they never try to hypnotise you, or take you to the

wrong side of life. So when you are realised also, you must know

that you have to know 'completely' what is the reality. Go on

understanding, trying to assimilate it, not to discard it because

you are attached to another organisation. There is 'no' organisation

in Sahaja Yoga, you know very well. There is no grouping in Sahaja

Yoga. There is no membership in Sahaja Yoga. But it is a living

organisation. It is a living organisation. So anything happens here,

the whole body knows. We don't have to have organisation written for

this body. In the same way Sahaja Yoga works out. "

 

Agnya Chakra, 3-2-1983

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

 

 

We have indeed revealed this (Message) in the Night of Power:

And what will explain to thee what the Night of Power is?

The Night of Power is better than a thousand Months.

Therein come down the angels, and the Spirit by Allah's permission,

On every errand: Peace! This until the rise of morn!

 

surah 97:1-5 Al Qadr (The Night of Power and Honour)

 

 

www.adishakti.org/meeting_his_messengers/prophet_muhammad.htm

www.adishakti.org/meeting_his_messengers/eid_al-adha_of_1995.htm

www.adishakti.org/meeting_his_messengers/meraj_of_prophet_muhammad.ht

m

www.adishakti.org/meeting_his_messengers/belief_in_his_angels.htm

www.adishakti.org/meeting_his_messengers/his_spirit_and_his_angels.ht

m