The long-awaited Avatar or Messiah who will destroy the evil

[Guest guest]

> When Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appeared in this world, he brought

> along personalities such as Lord Nityananda Prabhu, Sri Advaita

> Acharya, Sri Gadadhar Pandit, Srivas Thakur and others. Shri

> Vishnu's eight incarnation was Shri Krishna, then Shri Buddha and

> the last Shri Kalki. Sri Chaitanya must be a mini-incarnation

> between Buddha and Kalki.

 

I think that your idea of incarnations is slightly wrong. So, to

clear it up:

 

The Karanodakasayi Vishnu (Lord Maha-Vishnu)is the first Purusha

avatar who is lying on the causal ocean (karana-udaka). From him the

innumerable universes manifest as he exhales. And into Him the

universes are destroyed as He inhales.

 

He expands into each universal shell as the Garbhodakasayi Vishnu.

 

This Vishnu expands as Kshirodakasayi Vishnu who resides in Sveta

Dvipa on the milk ocean (This planet is actually a Vaikuntha planet

that the Lord manifests within the material universe) and it is this

form that expands into the supersoul within every living entity.

 

Now, this expansion (Kshirodakasayi Vishnu) is also what we identify

with the trinity - Brama, Siva and Vishnu.

 

The system of the Supreme Lord's incarnations is that all

incarnations come *through* the form of Kshirodakasayi Vishnu. In

essence, Lord Krsna (The Supreme Lord) descended *through* this

particular expansion of the Lord.

 

What my point is, is that Visnu is an incarnation of Lord Krishna,

not Krsna is an incarnation of Visnu, as you have stated. This is an

incorrect viewpoint, as I have heard many times.

 

This is what Lord Brahma stated which confirms this viewpoint:

 

isvarah paramah krsna

(Visnu is an incarnation of Krsna)

 

However, I agree with you that Lord Kalki and Lord Buddha are

incarnations of Lord Vishnu.

 

But one important note is that, factually there is no difference

between one Vishnu form and another, as they all belong to the same

category of Vishnu-tattva - the Supreme Person. Krishna is not a

different personality from Rama, and Rama is not a different

personality from Narayana. They are one and the same. The only

difference is in what they choose to manifest to their devotees.

 

> Sri Chaitanya must be a mini-incarnation

> between Buddha and Kalki.

 

Sri Chaitanya is actually *Lord Krsna himself* in disguised form,

and not a 'mini-incarnation' as you suggest, because there is no

such thing as a mini-incarnation (its meaningless).

 

There are six kinds of incarnations:

 

1) the purusha avataras

 

-> the 3 vishnus

 

2) the lila avataras

 

-> the pastime incarnations

 

3) the guna avataras

 

-> For the purpose of creation, maintenance and annihilation of the

universe

 

4) the manvantara avataras

 

-> Brahma's day - 1,000 catur yugas - is divided into fourteen

periods of the rule of Manus (fathers of mankind) known as

manvantaras.

 

5) the yuga avataras

 

-> Appears once every yuga (there are 4 ages)

 

6) the shaktyavesha avataras

 

-> When, the living entities are specially empowered by the Lord

 

Lord Chaitanya's incarnation (5: he is the the yuga avatara)is

mentioned and predicted in numerous scriptures. The following are

some of the important references.

 

In the Atharva Veda (Purusha-bodini Upanishad) it is said:

 

saptame gaura-varna-vishnor ity anena sva-shaktya caikyam etya

prante pratar avatirya saha svaih sva-manum shikshayati

 

" In the seventh manvantara, the *Supreme Lord* will, accompanied by

His own associates, descend in a golden form. He will teach the

chanting of His own holy names. "

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, descends himself in

every of the 4 Yuga to teach a different process of self realisation.

 

In each of these yugas the Lord incarnates with a different body

colour according to the yuga.

 

asan varnas trayo hy asya

grhnato `nuyugam tanuh

suklo raktas tatha pita

idanim krishnatam gatah

 

" Krishna appears as an incarnation in every millennium. In the

past,

He assumed three different colors - white, red and yellow - and now

he has appeared in a blackish color. "

- Srimad Bhagavatam 10.8.13

 

In the Satya yuga a white avatara appeared to Kardama muni to

establish meditation as the best process for self-realization.

 

In the Treta yuga a red avatara appeared to Brahma to establish fire

sacrifice as the best process for self-realization.

 

In the Dvapara yuga a dark avatara (Krishna) appeared as the son of

Devaki to establish temple worship as the best process for self-

realization.

 

In the Kali yuga a Yellow avatara appeared (Chaitanya Mahaprabhu) as

the son of Sachi Mata to establish the chanting of the holy names

(nama-sankirtana....the hare krsna movement) as the best process for

self-realization for the Age of Kali.

 

 

> The exact beginning of Kali Yuga is disputable but is believed to

> have started when Shri Krishna left. Since then it has been

> gathering strength and now is at its most darkest hour.

 

Maybe, but historically, Lord Krishna appeared in the Dvapara yuga,

on the midnight of the 8th day of the dark half of the month of

Sravana. This corresponds to July 19th 3228 BC. He exhibited His

pastimes for a little over 125 years and disappeared on February

18th 3102 BC on the new moon night of Phalguna. His departure marks

the beginning of the current age of corruption known as Kali

 

You can see that the scriptures gives us references using the

constellations as a reference point. Using vedic astrology, we can

successfully determine the precise date.

 

> And let's not try to split hairs over scriptural interpretation

> because it becomes a mad maze of muddled thoughts:

>

> When two or more verses in the Bible appear to be in conflict,

> religious conservatives normally attempt to harmonize the

passages.

> They will often select the clearest and most specific passage(s),

> and interpret them literally. Explanations are then sought for the

> remaining verses which are apparently in contradiction.

 

There may be many contradictions present in the vedic scriptures,

but ultimately all of the scriptures are in spicific modes of

nature. The Shiva Purana, Skanda Purana and Linga Purana says that

Shiva is the supreme God and Vishnu is assigned duties by Shiva.

 

Actually, the 18 Puranas are written for people influenced by the

three modes of nature. Six Puranas are aimed at those within the

tamo-guna (mode of ignorance), six for those within rajo-guna (mode

of passion) , and five for those within the sattva-guna (mode of

goodness).

 

Srimad Bhagavatam is the spotlesss Purana situated on the plane of

vishuddha-sattva. It is completely free from the contaminations of

dharma, artha, kama, moksha. It establishes the fifth purushartha,

Prema, as the ultimate goal of life. Sincere seekers should take

shelter of this transcendental book, for it can provide us light in

this dark age of Kali.

 

So, as such, all of the puranas, if they have any contradictions,

they all declare that the Srimad Bhagavatam should have the *final

say* in all topics of discussions, and this is where I also take my

arguments from.

 

The Bhagavata Purana, commonly referred to as the Srimad

Bhagavatam, is considered the ripened fruit of all Vedic

knowledge. Sri Vyasa Muni, the compiler of the Vedic texts,

advises us as follows:

 

nigama-kalpa-taror galitam phalam

shuka-mukhad amrita-drava-samyutam

nigama bhagavatam rasam alayam

muhur aho rasika bhuvi bhavukah

 

" O expert and thoughtful men, relish Srimad Bhagavatam, the mature

fruit of the desire tree of Vedic literatures. It emanated from

the lips of Sri Shuka Muni. Therefore this fruit has become even

more tasteful, although its nectarean juice was already relishable

for all, including liberated souls. "

Srimad Bhagavatam is the galitam phalam, or ripened fruit, of all

Vedic knowledge. It is exactly like amrita, for by hearing its

recitation we can cross beyond birth and death.

 

In terms of intrepreting the scriptures, the scriptures can only be

correctly understood by accepting knowledge from the line of

disciplic succession, which stems from Lord Krsna himself. You have

to accept the knowledge from an authorised spiritual master who is

conversant with these types of topics, then he will explain it to

you the correct way.

 

Currently, the Spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession

was Swami Prabupada (ISKCON).

 

I see you were quoting from a bhagavad gita whose author has no

links with the chain of disciplic succession (how the knowledge is

transmitted through time).

 

In India, there have been many, many bhagavad gitas but all of them

were translated and there meanings tainted by the authors specific

mode of nature or desires or simply not having the correct

mentallity. And none of these so called editions of the bhagavad

gita had ever established that Lord Krsna was supposed to be the

center of their devotional activities. If this were the case, then

whole of India would be on the elevated spiritual platform, not on

the platform of adopting the current western culture (because every

household in India has a so-called copy of the bhagavad gita).

 

 

Cheers......