Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 I am surprised that no one (not even Jagbir) has posted regarding the topic raised by brother Furat. Anyway here is my small(although long post) contribution : First and foremost we have to be very careful when we listen to experienced SY because I am quite sure many of us would have come across cases where the " experienced " yogi says/does something which even to a non-SY would seem unwise. I respect the leaders in SY but will only take the words of SM as the gospel truth and when an experienced SY speaks, I will try my level best to see the good in what he/she says. If the experienced ones are the likes of veteranyogi and zenyogi I must say that I would not take their sayings seriously for reasons which are obvious to some of us. I have seen many an " experienced " yogi( being long in SY , look like been practicing SY very well for years etc) say things and make decisions which even a newcomer to SY has the discretion to point out is wrong. That is why I always enlighten newcomers who seems to be in awe that " Wow you have been in SY for so long you must be really experienced and at a different level " . My answer to that is you can overtake me in the spiritual ascent within months if not weeks if you practice it well and also depending on the purity of your heart , innocence etc etc. I agree that personal experience and the realization of the heart, and that the conviction of the heart plays a major role but how to put a seeker on the path to achieve that is the big question. I seriously doubt that Jagbir or Gregoire started their work with the objective of providing SR.IMO it is more to educate people eg at adishakti how all the religions have a common platform and how SY and SM is a common denominator for all . This has been done quite well by using the respective religious texts to convey the message which IMO is one of the best way to get across to anyone on the web who has a religious faith. Why re-invent the wheel when we can use all the relevant writings in each and every major religious text to convey the message SM and SY is conveying . Thus at the same time get them to practice SY meditation within the context of their religions first and once they realize who SM is they can start going deeper into SY and thus start their journey of spiritual ascent. I would like to qualify me statement here that this does not mean spiritual ascent can never be established without SY but it will be much , much tougher for even the most dedicated soul. The websites will help in the sense they open a person's mind to the possibility of being connected to the divine within the religious framework of whatever religion they are currently practicing. I do not think that many who will be coming across the website will jump and say " Eurika , I have found salvation " . But IMO I believe that many will be intrigued enough to search further and many more will also be much more open and enthusiastic when they come across a real-life SY trying to spread SY. Secondly , there is tremendous amount of information about SY's connectivity to each and every religion on the sites. Some of the problems which are quite obvious using the net and how SY is portrayed now are 1)how will they come across websites on SY google search on yoga – SY appeared 57th on the list google search on yoga & spirituality – 40th on the list 2)once they come across it on the web or in real life what will be the great difference b/w SY and the hundreds of yogas being offered which will make them choose SY over another from of yoga - many offered health , physical & mental wellbeing , stress relief , some talk about vibes/energies , some about kundalini , chakras , being connected etc etc. Confusion of words (Shabda Jalam) can only occur if a person invents his own theory but if we use authentic (which can also be questioned by some) religious texts, I do not see any confusion of words. We have Mother's talks to guide us and most of her messages are rather clear and so are lots of religious texts. As far as Mother's talks are concerned there is no room for error in case of those on tapes/CDs and for the older religious texts , if we have reasons to doubt their 100% authenticity we should use our discretion. As for the case put forward on how Muslims will come in SY, I cannot contribute much since my depth of Muslim religion is not so much despite living in a Muslim country.Nevertheless I do tend to agree that because of the Muslim world's spiritual awareness it will accept SY instantly on a mass level when they realize the message of SM & Qiyamah. To me the person who conducts public programmes , the person who brings people to public programmes , the person who does even a teeny weenie bit in spreading SY has my utmost respect. I have not lived in EU or North America to be able to see or comment on how music can enable SY to spread rapidly on a big scale among the younger generation the way Furat feels it can be used. I see no harm in spreading the message about Last Judgment over the web to a person who has never had SR although I believe that if I meet a person in real life I would give the person SR first before even proceeding to talk about Last Judgment. Can anybody feel he has had SR after having attended a couple of once- a-week programs – very few and far between although a lot do feel the cool breeze but are unable to fathom what it really means. I myself do not know why SY never or hardly ever speak about the Last Judgment – it is as if Last Judgment means Apocalypse the way it is avoided being used.Mother has used it so often and I remember her even having said for us to announce it. It has been called the Last Judgment / Resurrection Time / Qiyamah / Golden Age of Emancipation / Age of Aquarius / Time of Rebirth . Mother has said that it has come and it is time to take your second birth and it has been made very beautiful, and very tender, and delicate, and does not disturb you. I do not see any problem announcing it as long as we do not make it look as apocalypse or that it means the end is near which is farthest from the truth of what is actually happening in the Age of Aquarius. Jai Shree Mataji Balwinder shriadishakti , " furat " <springingriver> wrote: > > Dear SAS members, Aunty Lyndal, Jagbir and others, > > > I've waited long to say something: > > I have noticed that those among us, who are dairy and sincere in > their desire to spread SY, take heed and seriously consider Jagbir' > challenge to start announcing the Last Judgement. And yet because of > that find themselves a bit confused over this idea. > > The experienced ones say that it is not in our nature as humble > seekers to force ourselves through the minds of the public, when it > is solely the personal experience and the realisation of the heart, > which moreover can only be passed on by those of the conviction of > the heart, that leaves an everlasting impression on the audience, > seeker or not. > > adishakti.org is a wonderful website, whose main use for the future > would seem to be educating the newly realised masses. But so far some > might argue that it is likely that more people have received their SR > upon having visited the official website, rather than Jagbir's or > Gregoire's, for that matter (and though this is a bit exaggerated, I > hope you get my point). > > > My opinion on this matter is that this is only another case of Shabda > Jalam, confusion of words, between Sys. > > The reason is basically twofold: > > 1. Jagbir speaks out of the religious mentality of his own background > (a Sikh grown up in a modern Muslim society) and; > 2. In his own capacity as a scholar. > > For it is absolutely true that: > > 1. Muslims do just sit and await for somebody to start announcing the > Qiyamat and the arrival of the Mahdi. > > However, because of the unfavourable political situation this cannot > happen more openly yet. The Muslim world is, after all, one cultural > unit, so if one thing appears at one of its corners, it has to spread > at once to the other. It is most probable that the Muslim world will > be the last place to hear the News, but because of its spiritual > awareness will accept it instantly on a mass level, whereas the > Western world would still be struggling to comprehend the whole point > of spiritual ascent (which is the price for having been the first to > hear and receive few but strong yogis). > > So in order for a suspicious seeker of Muslim background to stay in > SY and become just as pious in his daily meditation and devotion to > Shri Mataji as in his previous ritualistic lifestyle, he has to be > simply informed of the true essence of SY as being the `Ihsan', i.e. > fulfilment of Islam, and HHSM being the Mahdi, directly upon his SR. > > > 2. If the junkies were the first to come, scholars (including those > of religion) will be the very last ones. Unless the mind of the > scholar is satisfied and the new knowledge made fit within the > context of his earlier gathered info and constructed systems, he > cannot move on further to open up his heart. This was actually what > happened to me (short but long story) and, I reckon, even to Jagbir. > > A forceful way of proofs and argumentation may be at times very > effective with people like that, and sometimes the only way. > Ultimately it is the combination of both the impressive clear > reasoning of the mind of a Syi as well as his/her unusual self- > confidence and joy that make the mental ones elaborate twice before > going back to the dull but comfortable everyday life (however, this > time with a memory that might at times resurface). > > > So I do not see any particular fault with Jagbir's approach, except > that he might be forgetting one thing, the very same thing that we > forget as well when listening to him: what he is doing is because of > what his intuition, impulse or inspiration tells him to do, and that > different people have different such impulses. > > I can tell you that being here in Sweden I can see clearly the way SY > would soon spread everywhere here and the rest of Europe (well, not > necessarily SY, but, say, en-masse SR, which one day might be easier > to do here than in Russia or India). This place, just like Jagbir's > Canada, is a country of the Right Vishuddhi -- no amount of talk will > ever get you anywhere. And yet from here you might make yourself > heard to the rest of the world. > > It is amazing to see how a few tunes of music can make these people > relax at once (though it's highly tense otherwise) and smile widely > like small children only after minutes. > > Those in the greatest danger zone here are the young and the > teenagers, because they don't know the Truth. But if anybody is > seeking anything here, it is they. What is it that makes them go to > all these rock and hip-hop concerts and jump like crazy? It is the > sensation of their own Kundalini trying to rise! > > Imagine, here everybody you meet would ask you " what do you listen > to? " . But in India they would say " whom do you worship? " . A few years > ago there were some Hare-Krsna punk rock bands that made the notion > of spirituality into something cool among the 14-year-olds. In the > same way, one day it will be cooler to be a Yuva Shakti warrior and > go around with Shri Mataji T-shirts, thinking that everything else is > woossy, than to be a skater, skinhead or train karate, before this > would grow into a real SY. > > So what would be the magic trick? > > An average good Kavali group that enjoys tirelessly travelling around > between summer festivals for weeks and months, always joined by local > Sys where they come, and teaching a totally new form and concept of > collective enjoyment in music, i.e. that the people in the audience > and on the stage are not two different entities, but all are supposed > to sing together (and if otherwise you should not express stronger > emotions, here the point is a total spontaneity and openness of > heart, the more unrestrained the better), allowing a new discovery: > that the ONLY true purpose of music is clearing out the Subtle > System, which is far better than alcohol. > > Then it would take only some time before all these bhajans, ragas, > kavalis and the whole new trend would become widely popular with > young people and, ultimately, the rest of the society, as this sort > of music doesn't require the understanding of a certain generation > etc. > > > But simply talking about strange religious stuff, such as > Resurrection and Doomsday, causes a bit of a problem. Spirituality > may be hip, but the Bible and the Koran are tales of entertainment of > the past. How can you talk of the Last Judgement with somebody who > hasn't even had SR? How can anybody feel he has had SR after having > attended a couple of once-a-week programs? How can you talk of these > things in a society that doesn't have the basic traditional > understanding of the civilisation having a concrete purpose and the > evolution moving not randomly but towards a goal? > > Basically such issues can only be discussed with sincere seekers of > Truth. And in that regard I agree that it is dishonest not to provide > them with the full information. But as far as I can remember, I > myself felt this way only in the first months after coming into > contact with a local collective. > > > The misunderstanding I am talking about here, is that the time might > very well be ripe to start addressing the people who are supposed to > be the experts on these issues, clerics and scholars, the self- > proclaimed keepers of this knowledge. But it does it mean going to a > local church, requesting to hold a lecture? > > > Thank you, everybody. I am looking forward for a feedback and would > like to hear different viewpoints on this issue. > > > Jai Shri Mataji! > > furat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Thank you, brother Balwinder, for your reply. I can see now why my msg had not generated any response prior to Doc's. I sincerely apologise for using one particular word that may have been perceived as highly insulting. I would've not used it, if I had known it might cause such feelings. I know personally how it feels when you put a sincere effort of an artist or a scientist into something and receive criticism in return. You are trying to do your best and are being honest, and if others look for faults instead of trying to help you to improve your work, it hurts. But none of the above was my intention. What I was trying to say is that sometimes we feel very strongly about something and feel like knowing exactly what is right to do, but then we are surprised that nobody else has thought of it or done it, so we are compelled to do it ourselves. I have not heard of this concept/phenomenon having a particular term in any language. And that every individual has his/her own share of that, which is different from everybody else's. What works for me, not always works for somebody else, and vice versa. It's like as if the roles are already given and everything is predetermined by the Divine. On the two Abrahmaic scriptures, I would have to explain something: I have heard that Malaysian people in general, and consequently Malaysian yogis too, take religion very seriously. In the West, however, perhaps with an exception for the US, people are not only secularised when it comes to religious practice. If the stories of Genesis constituted once the main mythology and source of knowledge about how the world came to be, what other things exist in the universe and the invisible parallel worlds, they are not any more. The reason is, of course, because the Bible from the beginning had been taken out of the cultural context of the land of its origin and not only fed the European (by force), but also completely replacing the previous culture. Gandhiji has said the Christian practice of converting is in fact uprooting the culture of the hosting place. We all know what happened in South America, for example. But, of course, Christianity has never been meant to be that way --- in fact there is nothing that says Lord Christ suggested anything or even left instructions about what to do --- this was a Roman invention. In China and Japan Buddhism coexists naturally with the native religions, and this is probably also the manner through which Christ's teachings would've spread naturally throughout the world. Besides this concrete situation, there is no underlying idea in the cultures themselves that the world is headed for a brighter future, that one day everything would be finally alright etc. There is no understanding of sainthood, nor motherhood. In Russia and Eastern Europe, on the other hand, you do find all the three things deeply rooted (along with obsessions with black magic and stuff). You can say, there is a some kind of a popular Dharma, which makes everybody agree about universal truths and fundaments and allows them easily to accept any new ideologies without losing that popular innate religion. There exist proverbs for all aspects of life and a lot of folkloric wisdom with no particularly determined source for these. I'm saying this because I've seen how any such proverb in the country of my parents can always be traced back to some more or less known Sufi or poet. But most quotes are from the Qur'an. In the West there is neither a divinely established shariyat of any kind, nor a popular dharma of this sort. So it is not obvious AT ALL, like it seems to be everywhere else, that the Creation has a purpose or that one day we would all be held accountable for our actions and so on. The Bible does not invoke a sense of authority with anybody. Secondly, there also exists an inherited hatred of Islam. The antagonistic Trans-Mediterranean relations go back all the way to the Biblical times, but are mostly known to have commenced around the Punic wars, when Europe (Rome) would no longer tolerate not having a direct trade link with China without the various Parthians and Middle- Easterners blocking their path. This culminated into the Medieval Crusades in an age when all political decisions were explained with religious terms and a religious authority had the final say in all matters. Continuous expansionist ambitions under different pretences during different ages from the West and a fear of some Muslim Turkish invasion from the East have bred mutual distrust. United States, a society in itself poisoned with violence, has been always focused on the issues of political terrorism within Islam, whereas in Europe the focus has traditionally been more on the patriarchal archaism. Muslims are usually portrayed as aggressive wife beaters, obsessed with dismembering limbs and using other gruesome ancient methods, when applying punishment etc. The obligatory covering of the head for women is seen as a form of gender discrimination and an expression of male chauvinism, whereas the constant exploitation of the female body in the media of the West is not as often thought of in that way. The personal character of the Prophet is viewed as that of a tyrannical robber-gang leader, ordering killing of all who refuse to convert to his religion and forcibly marrying countless women, including minors. He is thus supposed to be the exact opposite of Christ, whose teachings were mainly about forgiveness and compassion (a common circulating idea today also is that `Allah' is not Arabic for " God " , but is an ancient Arabian moon god). The Book of Qur'an is consequently believed to be a document permissive and at times recommending of all these things. The few who try to make themselves acquaintant with its contents find it repetitive, judgmental and tedious: " It is humiliating to the human intellect to think that this mediocre literature has been the subject of innumerable commentaries, and that millions of men are still wasting time absorbing it. " | http://www.jesus-is- lord.com/islam.htm#fraud | No doubts there have been some tremendous improvements in the collective consciousness of Man throughout the world during the most recent years and the above is more of a digging in the past. The larger population of Europe do not have attention on religious issues at all, though generally somewhat interested in spirituality. I myself am less educated in the two scriptures, but with a fairly sufficient understanding of their structure, contents and dealt subjects to have an approximate estimation of which parts, and from what time, exactly are altered, false or incorrect. There are many interesting tales and examples in the Bible I have read about for anybody to refer to in a daily life situation. Despite this, I cannot remember when was the last time I have ever discussed any of its contents with a Western individual. So all I have been trying to inquire is whether such circumstances do not make it a bit " displaced " to use religious documents as sources of validation, when dealing, at least at this point of progression of the Collective Consciousness in time, with larger, mostly, non- religious audiences of people in the West, unless they have already had Self-Realisation (i.e. it is not the existence of that useful and enjoyable website I have been questioning). I am sorry if my comments may have caused silent injuries now or before. Thank you, JSM furat shriadishakti , " dr_balwinder " <dr_balwinder> wrote: > I am surprised that no one (not even Jagbir) has posted regarding the > topic raised by brother Furat. Anyway here is my small(although long > post) contribution : > > First and foremost we have to be very careful when we listen to > experienced SY because I am quite sure many of us would have come > across cases where the " experienced " yogi says/does something which > even to a non-SY would seem unwise. > I respect the leaders in SY but will only take the words of SM as the > gospel truth and when an experienced SY speaks, I will try my level > best to see the good in what he/she says. > If the experienced ones are the likes of veteranyogi and zenyogi I > must say that I would not take their sayings seriously for reasons > which are obvious to some of us. > I have seen many an " experienced " yogi( being long in SY , look like > been practicing SY very well for years etc) say things and make > decisions which even a newcomer to SY has the discretion to point out > is wrong. > That is why I always enlighten newcomers who seems to be in awe > that " Wow you have been in SY for so long you must be really > experienced and at a different level " . My answer to that is you can > overtake me in the spiritual ascent within months if not weeks if you > practice it well and also depending on the purity of your heart , > innocence etc etc. > > I agree that personal experience and the realization of the heart, > and that the conviction of the heart plays a major role but how to > put a seeker on the path to achieve that is the big question. > > I seriously doubt that Jagbir or Gregoire started their work with the > objective of providing SR.IMO it is more to educate people eg at > adishakti how all the religions have a common platform and how SY and > SM is a common denominator for all . This has been done quite well by > using the respective religious texts to convey the message which IMO > is one of the best way to get across to anyone on the web who has a > religious faith. > Why re-invent the wheel when we can use all the relevant writings in > each and every major religious text to convey the message SM and SY > is conveying . Thus at the same time get them to practice SY > meditation within the context of their religions first and once they > realize who SM is they can start going deeper into SY and thus start > their journey of spiritual ascent. > I would like to qualify me statement here that this does not mean > spiritual ascent can never be established without SY but it will be > much , much tougher for even the most dedicated soul. > > The websites will help in the sense they open a person's mind to the > possibility of being connected to the divine within the religious > framework of whatever religion they are currently practicing. > I do not think that many who will be coming across the website will > jump and say " Eurika , I have found salvation " . But IMO I believe > that many will be intrigued enough to search further and many more > will also be much more open and enthusiastic when they come across a > real-life SY trying to spread SY. > Secondly , there is tremendous amount of information about SY's > connectivity to each and every religion on the sites. > > Some of the problems which are quite obvious using the net and how SY > is portrayed now are > 1)how will they come across websites on SY > google search on yoga – SY appeared 57th on the list > google search on yoga & spirituality – 40th on the list > > 2)once they come across it on the web or in real life what will be > the great difference b/w SY and the hundreds of yogas being offered > which will make them choose SY over another from of yoga > - many offered health , physical & mental wellbeing , stress relief , > some talk about vibes/energies , some about kundalini , chakras , > being connected etc etc. > > > > Confusion of words (Shabda Jalam) can only occur if a person invents > his own theory but if we use authentic (which can also be questioned > by some) religious texts, I do not see any confusion of words. > We have Mother's talks to guide us and most of her messages are > rather clear and so are lots of religious texts. > As far as Mother's talks are concerned there is no room for error in > case of those on tapes/CDs and for the older religious texts , if we > have reasons to doubt their 100% authenticity we should use our > discretion. > > As for the case put forward on how Muslims will come in SY, I cannot > contribute much since my depth of Muslim religion is not so much > despite living in a Muslim country.Nevertheless I do tend to agree > that because of the Muslim world's spiritual awareness it will accept > SY instantly on a mass level when they realize the message of SM & > Qiyamah. > > To me the person who conducts public programmes , the person who > brings people to public programmes , the person who does even a teeny > weenie bit in spreading SY has my utmost respect. > > I have not lived in EU or North America to be able to see or comment > on how music can enable SY to spread rapidly on a big scale among the > younger generation the way Furat feels it can be used. > > I see no harm in spreading the message about Last Judgment over the > web to a person who has never had SR although I believe that if I > meet a person in real life I would give the person SR first before > even proceeding to talk about Last Judgment. > Can anybody feel he has had SR after having attended a couple of once- > a-week programs – very few and far between although a lot do feel the > cool breeze but are unable to fathom what it really means. > > > I myself do not know why SY never or hardly ever speak about the Last > Judgment – it is as if Last Judgment means Apocalypse the way it is > avoided being used.Mother has used it so often and I remember her > even having said for us to announce it. It has been called the Last > Judgment / Resurrection Time / Qiyamah / Golden Age of Emancipation / > Age of Aquarius / Time of Rebirth . > > Mother has said that it has come and it is time to take your second > birth and it has been made very beautiful, and very tender, and > delicate, and does not disturb you. I do not see any problem > announcing it as long as we do not make it look as apocalypse or that > it means the end is near which is farthest from the truth of what is > actually happening in the Age of Aquarius. > > Jai Shree Mataji > > Balwinder > > > shriadishakti , " furat " <springingriver> > wrote: > > > > Dear SAS members, Aunty Lyndal, Jagbir and others, > > > > > > I've waited long to say something: > > > > I have noticed that those among us, who are dairy and sincere in > > their desire to spread SY, take heed and seriously consider Jagbir' > > challenge to start announcing the Last Judgement. And yet because > of > > that find themselves a bit confused over this idea. > > > > The experienced ones say that it is not in our nature as humble > > seekers to force ourselves through the minds of the public, when it > > is solely the personal experience and the realisation of the heart, > > which moreover can only be passed on by those of the conviction of > > the heart, that leaves an everlasting impression on the audience, > > seeker or not. > > > > adishakti.org is a wonderful website, whose main use for the future > > would seem to be educating the newly realised masses. But so far > some > > might argue that it is likely that more people have received their > SR > > upon having visited the official website, rather than Jagbir's or > > Gregoire's, for that matter (and though this is a bit exaggerated, > I > > hope you get my point). > > > > > > My opinion on this matter is that this is only another case of > Shabda > > Jalam, confusion of words, between Sys. > > > > The reason is basically twofold: > > > > 1. Jagbir speaks out of the religious mentality of his own > background > > (a Sikh grown up in a modern Muslim society) and; > > 2. In his own capacity as a scholar. > > > > For it is absolutely true that: > > > > 1. Muslims do just sit and await for somebody to start announcing > the > > Qiyamat and the arrival of the Mahdi. > > > > However, because of the unfavourable political situation this > cannot > > happen more openly yet. The Muslim world is, after all, one > cultural > > unit, so if one thing appears at one of its corners, it has to > spread > > at once to the other. It is most probable that the Muslim world > will > > be the last place to hear the News, but because of its spiritual > > awareness will accept it instantly on a mass level, whereas the > > Western world would still be struggling to comprehend the whole > point > > of spiritual ascent (which is the price for having been the first > to > > hear and receive few but strong yogis). > > > > So in order for a suspicious seeker of Muslim background to stay in > > SY and become just as pious in his daily meditation and devotion to > > Shri Mataji as in his previous ritualistic lifestyle, he has to be > > simply informed of the true essence of SY as being the `Ihsan', > i.e. > > fulfilment of Islam, and HHSM being the Mahdi, directly upon his SR. > > > > > > 2. If the junkies were the first to come, scholars (including those > > of religion) will be the very last ones. Unless the mind of the > > scholar is satisfied and the new knowledge made fit within the > > context of his earlier gathered info and constructed systems, he > > cannot move on further to open up his heart. This was actually what > > happened to me (short but long story) and, I reckon, even to > Jagbir. > > > > A forceful way of proofs and argumentation may be at times very > > effective with people like that, and sometimes the only way. > > Ultimately it is the combination of both the impressive clear > > reasoning of the mind of a Syi as well as his/her unusual self- > > confidence and joy that make the mental ones elaborate twice before > > going back to the dull but comfortable everyday life (however, this > > time with a memory that might at times resurface). > > > > > > So I do not see any particular fault with Jagbir's approach, except > > that he might be forgetting one thing, the very same thing that we > > forget as well when listening to him: what he is doing is because > of > > what his intuition, impulse or inspiration tells him to do, and > that > > different people have different such impulses. > > > > I can tell you that being here in Sweden I can see clearly the way > SY > > would soon spread everywhere here and the rest of Europe (well, not > > necessarily SY, but, say, en-masse SR, which one day might be > easier > > to do here than in Russia or India). This place, just like Jagbir's > > Canada, is a country of the Right Vishuddhi -- no amount of talk > will > > ever get you anywhere. And yet from here you might make yourself > > heard to the rest of the world. > > > > It is amazing to see how a few tunes of music can make these people > > relax at once (though it's highly tense otherwise) and smile widely > > like small children only after minutes. > > > > Those in the greatest danger zone here are the young and the > > teenagers, because they don't know the Truth. But if anybody is > > seeking anything here, it is they. What is it that makes them go to > > all these rock and hip-hop concerts and jump like crazy? It is the > > sensation of their own Kundalini trying to rise! > > > > Imagine, here everybody you meet would ask you " what do you listen > > to? " . But in India they would say " whom do you worship? " . A few > years > > ago there were some Hare-Krsna punk rock bands that made the notion > > of spirituality into something cool among the 14-year-olds. In the > > same way, one day it will be cooler to be a Yuva Shakti warrior and > > go around with Shri Mataji T-shirts, thinking that everything else > is > > woossy, than to be a skater, skinhead or train karate, before this > > would grow into a real SY. > > > > So what would be the magic trick? > > > > An average good Kavali group that enjoys tirelessly travelling > around > > between summer festivals for weeks and months, always joined by > local > > Sys where they come, and teaching a totally new form and concept of > > collective enjoyment in music, i.e. that the people in the audience > > and on the stage are not two different entities, but all are > supposed > > to sing together (and if otherwise you should not express stronger > > emotions, here the point is a total spontaneity and openness of > > heart, the more unrestrained the better), allowing a new discovery: > > that the ONLY true purpose of music is clearing out the Subtle > > System, which is far better than alcohol. > > > > Then it would take only some time before all these bhajans, ragas, > > kavalis and the whole new trend would become widely popular with > > young people and, ultimately, the rest of the society, as this sort > > of music doesn't require the understanding of a certain generation > > etc. > > > > > > But simply talking about strange religious stuff, such as > > Resurrection and Doomsday, causes a bit of a problem. Spirituality > > may be hip, but the Bible and the Koran are tales of entertainment > of > > the past. How can you talk of the Last Judgement with somebody who > > hasn't even had SR? How can anybody feel he has had SR after having > > attended a couple of once-a-week programs? How can you talk of > these > > things in a society that doesn't have the basic traditional > > understanding of the civilisation having a concrete purpose and the > > evolution moving not randomly but towards a goal? > > > > Basically such issues can only be discussed with sincere seekers of > > Truth. And in that regard I agree that it is dishonest not to > provide > > them with the full information. But as far as I can remember, I > > myself felt this way only in the first months after coming into > > contact with a local collective. > > > > > > The misunderstanding I am talking about here, is that the time > might > > very well be ripe to start addressing the people who are supposed > to > > be the experts on these issues, clerics and scholars, the self- > > proclaimed keepers of this knowledge. But it does it mean going to > a > > local church, requesting to hold a lecture? > > > > > > Thank you, everybody. I am looking forward for a feedback and would > > like to hear different viewpoints on this issue. > > > > > > Jai Shri Mataji! > > > > furat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 shriadishakti , " furat " <springingriver> wrote: > > Dear SAS members, Aunty Lyndal, Jagbir and others, > > > I've waited long to say something: > > I have noticed that those among us, who are dairy and sincere in > their desire to spread SY, take heed and seriously consider Jagbir' > challenge to start announcing the Last Judgement. And yet because of > that find themselves a bit confused over this idea. > >Dear Furat, This is a very interesting topic and needs serious consideration. It seems that everyone is coming to the idea that each country/ people has a different approach to spiritual matters and that ways of " announcing " do have to vary. And your point that actually giving self realisation and announcing are two different things...and then establishing people in that self realization is something else. The latter part is one that has been of most concern to me for some time. It requires a lot more sensitivity than many yogis seem to realize. In giving realization we can say that just happens if the seeker is genuine...we don't do much at all. The sincerity or otherwise of the collective at that place is then fundamental to the establishment of new seekers. A lot of old sahaja yogis have definitely immersed themselves in the mundane things of life in the last few years as Shri Mataji's very brief comments at the recent Guru Puja testify. Since then I have seen that an email to seekers about new programmes is inviting them to " find out about chakras and how they can enhance their health wealth and job prospects. " Obviously someone has defined a new demographic of seekers which they are targeting. After many years of praying for the people in the church I was raised in I recently found that there is a website of ex-members, and have begun communicating with them. Like myself they are very familiar with the bible and we can speak the same language there. But they fall into two catagories. Some have given up all faith in religion and others have embraced a more convivial form of Christianity than the rather restrictive one we knew. None of them has responded to my suggestion they look at this or the official website. I think they are naturally suspicious of anything which is new and free... " once bitten, twice shy " . Yet they are mostly sincere truth seekers by the tone of their letters. I am currently learning Tai Chi and meeting a lot of aging ex- hippies and other adventurous folk and when the occasion presents I talk to them about Sahaja Yoga but most have been into and seen everything and have lost their thirst perhaps... In my age group there is a lot of cynicism and I am regarded as a bit novel for my lack of it....interesting as a dinner guest who has a different point of view... Public programmes (which we do still) really are only scratching the surface of public awareness. But I do wonder if the real seekers are very few in this part of the world. Maybe more among the young. We have a fairly active yuva shakti group who go to High schools and give realization but so far no one seems to come into sahaja yoga from this...yet. Another couple of adventurous yogis here go to drug rehabilitation clinics and give courses in sahaja yoga there. Apart from the yuva shakti group we have no ashram and I think this is probably a large factor in our lack of magnetism. Our collective programmes for the past couple of years have been held in a country retreat which can only be reached by car and along a long stretch of windy road where kangaroos are encountered and the occasional hoon drivers at night so little old ladies like myself do not find it readily accessable...and I am a fairly keen yogi. Which leads to another question...How many collectives have dynamic ashrams - where the people are really introspective? Is this a factor in the ability to spread Sahaja Yoga in your area? When we give realization to people what sort of different lifestyle are we offering them? Are the yogins in the area really conscious of mariadas and the value of innocence and chastity? Not preaching about it but practising it as a natural outcome of their realization. Are the men fatherly to all the children, not just their own? Are we reflecting the loving nature which Our Mother has always displayed? Or is the emphasis on material things and busy activities and social events which leave no place for reflection? Your idea about music especially for the young is a good one. I feel sure that the rapid growith of Sahaja Yoga and its penetration into many countries in the mid eighties was partly fuelled by Baba Mama's establishment of the travelling professional bhajan group. A lot of Indian men who were giving realization to thousands of villagers in India have been devastated by the lack of interest in the Australian public since coming here to live. Radio programmes are an effective medium. Sydney has had one for years and some feedback suggests that a lot of people whom we never see actually depend on it for their weekly well being...Even though the quality of the programmes varies enormously. Maybe one day there will be a sudden mass emergence of all the thousands of people in this very reticent country who have received the awakening at some time in the past. We should expect and prepare for that. The actual area of the land is so vast that presenting Sahaja Yoga to the country folk is daunting. Hundreds of miles seperate towns. I used to have fantasies about a travelling music group or puppet show presenting stories about the deities...when I was much younger. with love from Aunty Lyndal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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