Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Jai Shri mataji Lets not argue on this point any more and spoil our agnya and attention. Lets leave it here. Deepak Chopra or whatever like tv or many other things that you have mentioned cannot harm us with all their negativity so long as we are not attached to them. If we are addicted to them then definitely we are in for it. So long as we are just witnessing and not getting involved we are not going to be affected by them. As for Deepak Chopra lets close this topic and stop wasting our precious time. There are many more things that we need to pay attention to. Jai Shri Mataji jagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote: shriadishakti , "anujg_iitd" <anujg_iitd> wrote:> Jai ShriMataji Jagbirji> > Shri Mataji has enabled us to see the world beyond fanaticism and so > called rationality . And the enabler for that was Param Chaitanya. > With the help of the holy ghost, we are able to distinguish between > what is good and what is bad and listen to and trust our hearts > instead of mind which is limited. The moment I start interpreting > things with my intellect and forget vibrations, I know that I might > be mistaken (and always am!!)> Dear Anujji,Thank you for your input.i cannot be more agreeable that Shri Mataji has enabled us to see the world beyond fanaticism, and that is why Chopra was vigorously defended. SYs keep missing the point that compared to the likes of Sai Baba, Muktananda, Sri Chinmoy, Rev. Moon, etc., he never claimed himself to be a divine personality. Why do a few quotes agitate them so much and cause others to react?Ever since i started meditating on the Devi within a decade ago there has been no end to so-called established SYs mentoring me what to read, listen, see, wear, eat, visit. The seniority pecking order makes it almost impossible to become your own master. For them anything not making the list of Shri Mataji's recommendations are suspicious at best. (Do they honestly believe that Shri Mataji scans all the world's newspapers, magazines, movies, books, sitcoms, soap operas and radio stations to spoon-feed them with prized pickings, forbidden fruits and common sense?)The basis of their objection to my choices are vibrations, an infallible weapon subsequently used by the Inquisytion to pursue its infamous purge. Over the years i have become skeptical of SYs using vibrations to judge due to the abuse my family has suffered. There is no consistency in their findings. At times they even contradict each other, and confuse the rest. You are never sure of their conviction.Take for example Yogi Mahajan's book, The Geeta Enlightened. Many acknowledged years ago that it emitted good vibrations. When he was asked to leave in disgrace by Shri Mataji the same book started giving off bad vibrations. How can that be possible? The reverse happened the day Shri Mataji told that hatha yoga breathing exercises were valid. How come SYs stopped feeling bad vibrations from hatha yoga? Does truth contradict? give off bad vibrations?If i were to fanatically follow the advise of SYs who can pick up hot vibrations, bad mooladharas or false gurus i will have to stop 1) reading book, novels, magazines, newspapers, billboards; 2) cease listening to radios, political speeches, musical presentations; 3) see movies, watch television; 4) wear jeans, T-shorts, designer shoes; 5) eat in restaurants, MacDonald's, Subways, Wendys; 6) visit friends in pubs, drug-infested housing etc. Any fanatically conditioned SY will tell you that all these will trigger the catches of hot vibrations, bad mooladharas or false gurus. Why just single out Chopra for having a bad mooladhara when you can practically point the guilty finger at anyone. Do i have to stop watching BBC or reading the New York Times because their editors have horrible mooladharas? Do i stop eating at my neighborhood MacDonald's because most of their youthful employees have bad catches due to drinking, drugs and multiple sexual partners? Am i to flee from libraries and bookshops because most authors will either have hot vibrations, bad mooladharas or are followers of false gurus / corrupted religions? Do i refuse to see/follow the advise of a doctor who is Sai Baba devotee, and is catching horribly?All this unnecessary and excessive concern for the purity of the subtle system has retarded SYs and developed a sick siege mentality. Just check with the Vashi Clinic at Belapour, India and you will hear embarrassing stories from the SY doctors of how the fear of bhoots and negativity have SYs living in constant dread and anxiety. All this fanaticism with bhoots, baddhas, hot vibrations, bad mooladharas and false gurus are turning normal devotees in ailing SYs who need years of foot-soaking and candle treatments. The All-Pervasive Negativity keeps attacking them regularly and thus a daily regimen of cleansing continues for years .......................... with no end or solution in sight.But this siege mentality does not end here. It has bred a host of innovative observations. One that i witnessed was senior SYs checking for physical scars/defects. If you have a scar on the throat then automatically your Vishuddhi Chakra will always catch. A herniated disk is interpreted as a problem with the Sushumna Nadi. It is humiliating enough when such signs are examined but the insult to injury is when your are told that it is the Divine meting punishment. Don't think i am making this up; i was a victim of senior SYs who thought that 15 years in Sahaja Yoga brought them enlightenment and the right to dispense it in minuscule portions to ignorant seekers like me. And there was no room for argument. When their 'vibrations' are right who am i to say otherwise?SYs depend on vibrations but have yet to substantially harness a far superior means to ascertain truth and awareness - the thoughtless state. When all mental activity ceases what is there left to interpret? You just do your daily routine in Silence, without any need to check vibrations. One still needs to mentally asked vibrations about one's enquiry. So how can vibrations overrule the thoughtless state where all mental activity ceases, the Nirvikalpa that Shri Mataji insists must be reached? This is a level of consciousness that remains inaccessible to the majority because it is very difficult to attain and sustain. ......... and i am not talking about a few minutes during meditation but hours daily over weeks, months and years!Over time there has been this awareness that to destroy negativity one must first experience and learn what it is. This baseless fear and siege mentality of bhoots, baddhas, hot vibrations, bad mooladharas and false gurus, both real and imaginary, must come to an end. We cannot allow our minds to be agitated by all these mental perceptions of negativity. If you do then be assured that you will be foot-soaking and performing candle rituals for a very, very long time.jagbir Regards,Mahesh Khatri http://www.geocities.com/maheshkhatri/Maheshkhatri.html www.shalstudios.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Ha ha ha Mahesh. You really gave me reason to smile this morning - agnya, attention and all!. There is no point in explaining what Fletcher and Jgbir are trying to say, because in your effort to de-condition your mind, you've conditioned it in yet another way. Fletcher, I must say, (im actually at a loss for words) I am REALLY moved by all your posts. Your perspective to life is indeed enviable. I have no shame in admitting that I am far from that milestone and every day I have to struglle to get my attention back to myself and be a witness as i watch my day go on. Maybe its too soon, i've only been meditating 5 or 6 months now, without any photograph and purely on the devi in my heart and sahasrar, and of course even on the divine from whom she emanates. A question to both you and Jagbir, I'm just a little curious here, are you able to maintain the witness state even during a conversation with someone. Do both of you have full time jobs that involve meeting people, thinking and processing data? How do you do it, is it a matter of practice, will-power and mediatation? Do you maintain the witness state even during sleep? Please give me some pointers. I often fall asleep trying to be aware and conscious, but i soon drift into a dream. --- mahesh khatri <maheshkhatri wrote: > Jai Shri mataji > > Lets not argue on this point any more and spoil our > agnya and attention. Lets leave it here. Deepak > Chopra or whatever like tv or many other things that > you have mentioned cannot harm us with all their > negativity so long as we are not attached to them. > If we are addicted to them then definitely we are in > for it. > So long as we are just witnessing and not getting > involved we are not going to be affected by them. As > for Deepak Chopra lets close this topic and stop > wasting our precious time. There are many more > things that we need to pay attention to. > > Jai Shri Mataji > > > jagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote: > shriadishakti , " anujg_iitd " > <anujg_iitd> > wrote: > > Jai ShriMataji Jagbirji > > > > Shri Mataji has enabled us to see the world beyond > fanaticism and > so > > called rationality . And the enabler for that was > Param Chaitanya. > > With the help of the holy ghost, we are able to > distinguish between > > what is good and what is bad and listen to and > trust our hearts > > instead of mind which is limited. The moment I > start interpreting > > things with my intellect and forget vibrations, I > know that I might > > be mistaken (and always am!!) > > > > Dear Anujji, > > Thank you for your input. > > i cannot be more agreeable that Shri Mataji has > enabled us to see the > world beyond fanaticism, and that is why Chopra was > vigorously > defended. SYs keep missing the point that compared > to the likes of > Sai Baba, Muktananda, Sri Chinmoy, Rev. Moon, etc., > he never claimed > himself to be a divine personality. Why do a few > quotes agitate them > so much and cause others to react? > > Ever since i started meditating on the Devi within a > decade ago there > has been no end to so-called established SYs > mentoring me what to > read, listen, see, wear, eat, visit. The seniority > pecking order > makes it almost impossible to become your own > master. For them > anything not making the list of Shri Mataji's > recommendations are > suspicious at best. (Do they honestly believe that > Shri Mataji scans > all the world's newspapers, magazines, movies, > books, sitcoms, soap > operas and radio stations to spoon-feed them with > prized pickings, > forbidden fruits and common sense?) > > The basis of their objection to my choices are > vibrations, an > infallible weapon subsequently used by the > Inquisytion to pursue its > infamous purge. > > Over the years i have become skeptical of SYs using > vibrations to > judge due to the abuse my family has suffered. There > is no > consistency in their findings. At times they even > contradict each > other, and confuse the rest. You are never sure of > their conviction. > > Take for example Yogi Mahajan's book, The Geeta > Enlightened. Many > acknowledged years ago that it emitted good > vibrations. When he was > asked to leave in disgrace by Shri Mataji the same > book started > giving off bad vibrations. How can that be possible? > The reverse > happened the day Shri Mataji told that hatha yoga > breathing exercises > were valid. How come SYs stopped feeling bad > vibrations from hatha > yoga? Does truth contradict? give off bad > vibrations? > > If i were to fanatically follow the advise of SYs > who can pick up hot > vibrations, bad mooladharas or false gurus i will > have to stop 1) > reading book, novels, magazines, newspapers, > billboards; 2) cease > listening to radios, political speeches, musical > presentations; 3) > see movies, watch television; 4) wear jeans, > T-shorts, designer > shoes; 5) eat in restaurants, MacDonald's, Subways, > Wendys; 6) visit > friends in pubs, drug-infested housing etc. Any > fanatically > conditioned SY will tell you that all these will > trigger the catches > of hot vibrations, bad mooladharas or false gurus. > > Why just single out Chopra for having a bad > mooladhara when you can > practically point the guilty finger at anyone. Do i > have to stop > watching BBC or reading the New York Times because > their editors have > horrible mooladharas? Do i stop eating at my > neighborhood MacDonald's > because most of their youthful employees have bad > catches due to > drinking, drugs and multiple sexual partners? Am i > to flee from > libraries and bookshops because most authors will > either have hot > vibrations, bad mooladharas or are followers of > false gurus / > corrupted religions? Do i refuse to see/follow the > advise of a doctor > who is Sai Baba devotee, and is catching horribly? > > All this unnecessary and excessive concern for the > purity of the > subtle system has retarded SYs and developed a sick > siege mentality. > Just check with the Vashi Clinic at Belapour, India > and you will hear > embarrassing stories from the SY doctors of how the > fear of bhoots > and negativity have SYs living in constant dread and > anxiety. All > this fanaticism with bhoots, baddhas, hot > vibrations, bad mooladharas > and false gurus are turning normal devotees in > ailing SYs who need > years of foot-soaking and candle treatments. The > All-Pervasive > Negativity keeps attacking them regularly and thus a > daily regimen of > cleansing continues for years > .......................... with no > end or solution in sight. > > But this siege mentality does not end here. It has > bred a host of > innovative observations. One that i witnessed was > senior SYs checking > for physical scars/defects. If you have a scar on > the throat then > automatically your Vishuddhi Chakra will always > catch. A herniated > disk is interpreted as a problem with the Sushumna > Nadi. > > It is humiliating enough when such signs are > examined but the insult > to injury is when your are told that it is the > Divine meting > punishment. Don't think i am making this up; i was a > victim of senior > SYs who thought that 15 years in Sahaja Yoga brought > them > enlightenment and the right to dispense it in > minuscule portions to > ignorant seekers like me. And there was no room for > argument. When > their 'vibrations' are right who am i to say > otherwise? > > SYs depend on vibrations but have yet to > substantially harness a far > superior means to ascertain truth and awareness - > the thoughtless > state. When all mental activity ceases what is there > left to > interpret? You just do your daily routine in > Silence, without any > need to check vibrations. One still needs to > mentally asked > vibrations about one's enquiry. So how can > vibrations === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Maintaining the witness state can be trying at times. Especially when performing " everyday " tasks, such as talking with someone or watching a movie. But it is one of my main practices for each day. To be fully conscious of my thoughts, actions, emotions, etc... I don't have a full-time job, but I am a full-time student, college student, with deadlines, exams, bills, economic concerns, etc... Like i said it can be really tough sometimes, lol A few years ago I was in a car accident that somehow everyone walked away from. Those few days afterward I realized how my actions did and could affect everyone around me. It made me realize I needed to make some serious shifts in how i interacted with the world. I asked myself along with all the other questions about our existence, what is it I came here to become? Definatly not some 9-5 workaholic. which is what the american society tries to fashion young people into. I started to become aware limitations, limitation to our true divine expression. I'm sure you can think of many. One that we've all struggled with is language, it limits our self expression. And if you think i'm wrong, just try to tell me who you really are! See if you can tell me in words. Any structure is a limitation. Believe me they are very pervasive, they are everywhere. You have to be quite thorough to rid yourself of structures that a lot of times become unconscious. When you remove the old structures, replace them with something not so solid, fixed, or unchanging. Set a new pattern. When you look around you, practice seeing things for what they really are. The desk is not just any desk, it is the only one like it. The texture and color are only artifacts of your nervous receptors; I have remained in a conscious witnessing state for about 72 hours. It was quite interesting. Because sleep is something we have all become accustomed to, and sleep wasn't so much like sleep anymore. If you wish to achieve witnessing the eternal presence fo your being, the only pointers i am qualified to recommend at this point are to become aware of every system in your body, every organ, cell, organelle, molecule, atom. Begin to observe their trillions processes. Observe it on a very physical level and work your way down into the beingness of it. And naturally your witnessing state will increase. My words have been less than poetic today, sorry if i've repeated myself, been a little slow at organizing my thoughts today. I hope this is helpful lovinhugs, fletcher >Fletcher, I must say, (im actually at a loss for<BR> >words) I am REALLY moved by all your posts. Your<BR> >perspective to life is indeed enviable. I have no<BR> >shame in admitting that I am far from that milestone<BR> >and every day I have to struglle to get my attention<BR> >back to myself and be a witness as i watch my day go<BR> >on. Maybe its too soon, i've only been meditating 5 or<BR> >6 months now, without any photograph and purely on the<BR> >devi in my heart and sahasrar, and of course even on<BR> >the divine from whom she emanates. <BR> ><BR> >A question to both you and Jagbir, I'm just a little<BR> >curious here, are you able to maintain the witness<BR> >state even during a conversation with someone. Do both<BR> >of you have full time jobs that involve meeting<BR> >people, thinking and processing data? How do you do<BR> >it, is it a matter of practice, will-power and<BR> >mediatation? Do you maintain the witness state even<BR> >during sleep? Please give me some pointers. I often<BR> >fall asleep trying to be aware and conscious, but i<BR> >soon drift into a dream.<BR> ><BR> >--- mahesh khatri <maheshkhatri wrote:<BR> >> Jai Shri mataji<BR> >> <BR> >> Lets not argue on this point any more and spoil our<BR> >> agnya and attention. Lets leave it here. Deepak<BR> >> Chopra or whatever like tv or many other things that<BR> >> you have mentioned cannot harm us with all their<BR> >> negativity so long as we are not attached to them. <BR> >> If we are addicted to them then definitely we are in<BR> >> for it.<BR> >> So long as we are just witnessing and not getting<BR> >> involved we are not going to be affected by them. As<BR> >> for Deepak Chopra lets close this topic and stop<BR> >> wasting our precious time. There are many more<BR> >> things that we need to pay attention to.<BR> >> <BR> >> Jai Shri Mataji<BR> >> <BR> >> <BR> >> jagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote:<BR> >> shriadishakti , " anujg_iitd " <BR> >> <anujg_iitd> <BR> >> wrote:<BR> >> > Jai ShriMataji Jagbirji<BR> >> > <BR> >> > Shri Mataji has enabled us to see the world beyond<BR> >> fanaticism and <BR> >> so <BR> >> > called rationality . And the enabler for that was<BR> >> Param Chaitanya. <BR> >> > With the help of the holy ghost, we are able to<BR> >> distinguish between <BR> >> > what is good and what is bad and listen to and<BR> >> trust our hearts <BR> >> > instead of mind which is limited. The moment I<BR> >> start interpreting <BR> >> > things with my intellect and forget vibrations, I<BR> >> know that I might <BR> >> > be mistaken (and always am!!)<BR> >> > <BR> >> <BR> >> Dear Anujji,<BR> >> <BR> >> Thank you for your input.<BR> >> <BR> >> i cannot be more agreeable that Shri Mataji has<BR> >> enabled us to see the <BR> >> world beyond fanaticism, and that is why Chopra was<BR> >> vigorously <BR> >> defended. SYs keep missing the point that compared<BR> >> to the likes of <BR> >> Sai Baba, Muktananda, Sri Chinmoy, Rev. Moon, etc.,<BR> >> he never claimed <BR> >> himself to be a divine personality. Why do a few<BR> >> quotes agitate them <BR> >> so much and cause others to react?<BR> >> <BR> >> Ever since i started meditating on the Devi within a<BR> >> decade ago there <BR> >> has been no end to so-called established SYs<BR> >> mentoring me what to <BR> >> read, listen, see, wear, eat, visit. The seniority<BR> >> pecking order <BR> >> makes it almost impossible to become your own<BR> >> master. For them <BR> >> anything not making the list of Shri Mataji's<BR> >> recommendations are <BR> >> suspicious at best. (Do they honestly believe that<BR> >> Shri Mataji scans <BR> >> all the world's newspapers, magazines, movies,<BR> >> books, sitcoms, soap <BR> >> operas and radio stations to spoon-feed them with<BR> >> prized pickings, <BR> >> forbidden fruits and common sense?)<BR> >> <BR> >> The basis of their objection to my choices are<BR> >> vibrations, an <BR> >> infallible weapon subsequently used by the<BR> >> Inquisytion to pursue its <BR> >> infamous purge. <BR> >> <BR> >> Over the years i have become skeptical of SYs using<BR> >> vibrations to <BR> >> judge due to the abuse my family has suffered. There<BR> >> is no <BR> >> consistency in their findings. At times they even<BR> >> contradict each <BR> >> other, and confuse the rest. You are never sure of<BR> >> their conviction.<BR> >> <BR> >> Take for example Yogi Mahajan's book, The Geeta<BR> >> Enlightened. Many <BR> >> acknowledged years ago that it emitted good<BR> >> vibrations. When he was <BR> >> asked to leave in disgrace by Shri Mataji the same<BR> >> book started <BR> >> giving off bad vibrations. How can that be possible?<BR> >> The reverse <BR> >> happened the day Shri Mataji told that hatha yoga<BR> >> breathing exercises <BR> >> were valid. How come SYs stopped feeling bad<BR> >> vibrations from hatha <BR> >> yoga? Does truth contradict? give off bad<BR> >> vibrations?<BR> >> <BR> >> If i were to fanatically follow the advise of SYs<BR> >> who can pick up hot <BR> >> vibrations, bad mooladharas or false gurus i will<BR> >> have to stop 1) <BR> >> reading book, novels, magazines, newspapers,<BR> >> billboards; 2) cease <BR> >> listening to radios, political speeches, musical<BR> >> presentations; 3) <BR> >> see movies, watch television; 4) wear jeans,<BR> >> T-shorts, designer <BR> >> shoes; 5) eat in restaurants, MacDonald's, Subways,<BR> >> Wendys; 6) visit <BR> >> friends in pubs, drug-infested housing etc. Any<BR> >> fanatically <BR> >> conditioned SY will tell you that all these will<BR> >> trigger the catches <BR> >> of hot vibrations, bad mooladharas or false gurus. <BR> >> <BR> >> Why just single out Chopra for having a bad<BR> >> mooladhara when you can <BR> >> practically point the guilty finger at anyone. Do i<BR> >> have to stop <BR> >> watching BBC or reading the New York Times because<BR> >> their editors have <BR> >> horrible mooladharas? Do i stop eating at my<BR> >> neighborhood MacDonald's <BR> >> because most of their youthful employees have bad<BR> >> catches due to <BR> >> drinking, drugs and multiple sexual partners? Am i<BR> >> to flee from <BR> >> libraries and bookshops because most authors will<BR> >> either have hot <BR> >> vibrations, bad mooladharas or are followers of<BR> >> false gurus / <BR> >> corrupted religions? Do i refuse to see/follow the<BR> >> advise of a doctor <BR> >> who is Sai Baba devotee, and is catching horribly?<BR> >> <BR> >> All this unnecessary and excessive concern for the<BR> >> purity of the <BR> >> subtle system has retarded SYs and developed a sick<BR> >> siege mentality. <BR> >> Just check with the Vashi Clinic at Belapour, India<BR> >> and you will hear <BR> >> embarrassing stories from the SY doctors of how the<BR> >> fear of bhoots <BR> >> and negativity have SYs living in constant dread and<BR> >> anxiety. All <BR> >> this fanaticism with bhoots, baddhas, hot<BR> >> vibrations, bad mooladharas <BR> >> and false gurus are turning normal devotees in<BR> >> ailing SYs who need <BR> >> years of foot-soaking and candle treatments. The<BR> >> All-Pervasive <BR> >> Negativity keeps attacking them regularly and thus a<BR> >> daily regimen of <BR> >> cleansing continues for years <BR> >> .......................... with no <BR> >> end or solution in sight.<BR> >> <BR> >> But this siege mentality does not end here. It has<BR> >> bred a host of <BR> >> innovative observations. One that i witnessed was<BR> >> senior SYs checking <BR> >> for physical scars/defects. If you have a scar on<BR> >> the throat then <BR> >> automatically your Vishuddhi Chakra will always<BR> >> catch. A herniated <BR> >> disk is interpreted as a problem with the Sushumna<BR> >> Nadi. <BR> >> <BR> >> It is humiliating enough when such signs are<BR> >> examined but the insult <BR> >> to injury is when your are told that it is the<BR> >> Divine meting <BR> >> punishment. Don't think i am making this up; i was a<BR> >> victim of senior <BR> >> SYs who thought that 15 years in Sahaja Yoga brought<BR> >> them <BR> >> enlightenment and the right to dispense it in<BR> >> minuscule portions to <BR> >> ignorant seekers like me. And there was no room for<BR> >> argument. When <BR> >> their 'vibrations' are right who am i to say<BR> >> otherwise?<BR> >> <BR> >> SYs depend on vibrations but have yet to<BR> >> substantially harness a far <BR> >> superior means to ascertain truth and awareness -<BR> >> the thoughtless <BR> >> state. When all mental activity ceases what is there<BR> >> left to <BR> >> interpret? You just do your daily routine in<BR> >> Silence, without any <BR> >> need to check vibrations. One still needs to<BR> >> mentally asked <BR> >> vibrations about one's enquiry. So how can<BR> >> vibrations <BR> >=== message truncated ===<BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> >Tired of spam? 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